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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#226: Apr 20th 2019 at 6:28:04 AM

[tup] Ajax

Any more thoughts on cutting Jowan?

Libraryseraph Fearless at the core... from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Fearless at the core...
#227: Apr 20th 2019 at 10:24:25 AM

Cut Jowan

...and adorable on top!
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#228: Apr 20th 2019 at 12:01:56 PM

[tup] to Donovan and Ajax.

Cut Jowan.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#229: Apr 21st 2019 at 6:19:50 PM

Late [tup] to Donovan and Ajax.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 21st 2019 at 10:18:59 AM

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#230: Apr 22nd 2019 at 12:04:13 AM

[tup] to Donovan and Ajax. Especially Donovan doesn't count as a CM.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#231: Apr 22nd 2019 at 8:08:41 PM

[up] Could you please write a list of pending writeups?

I should go to bed now. Good night.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 22nd 2019 at 12:12:35 PM

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#233: Apr 22nd 2019 at 10:37:49 PM

I did Cinders write up a little while ago. I would just like it if someone added it for me as I'm suspended from Editing

.

Hate Sink:Easily the most Detestable of Salems inner Circle, Including Salem herself. From her Abusive treatment of Emerald, To Mocking Phyyras Love Interest about Phyyras death. To many acts of Petty Sadism. Beneath her facade of a Strong Warrior She's little more then a petty, Sadistic bully needing Others to suffer so she can feel Powerful

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#234: Apr 23rd 2019 at 12:48:49 AM

[up] Noted. Now it's in the draft for revisions.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#235: Apr 23rd 2019 at 1:53:20 AM

Thanks!

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#236: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:27:51 AM

I have been tweaking the entry for Cinder, if that's okay with everyone.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 23rd 2019 at 10:28:20 AM

Rawr.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#237: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:32:42 AM

For mother! (2017)...

  • Hate Sink: Him is a self-absorbed poet who allows humanity to trash His house, making him indirectly responsible for all of the atrocities they commit in the film, and inadvertently causes the death of His son when the hordes accidentally kill and eat him. Even when He saves mother from being beaten, He tries to convince her to forgive the crowd and later rips her heart out to start the cycle anew.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#238: Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:34:13 AM

Looks good. Just needs a few more potholes.

If you are ready, you could add it to the drafts.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 23rd 2019 at 1:12:14 PM

Rawr.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#239: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:13:40 AM

Also, someone cut the problematic line about love to hate from the main page, so I redirected him to the thread so he could make contributions. He seems like he could be an asset to us.

Rawr.
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I know
#240: Apr 24th 2019 at 8:33:42 AM

Here's a character who's not sufficiently heinous to be a Complete Monster even though I f*cking wish he was.

From the revival of Twin Peaks

Who's the character? What does he do?

Richard Horne is the sociopathic son of Audrey Horne who's been raped by Cooper's doppleganger while she was in the coma. He's major prick involved in drug trade.

Our introduction to Richard? At a tavern, he bribes an employee to be allowed to smoke. When a girl flirts with him, he suddenly grabs her and threatens to rape her right here and there. In front of her friends no less.

Later, after being humiliated by boss, he vents his frustration by running very fast with his car. A little boy gets on his way causing Richard to run over him without even slowing down. Richard doesn't give a crap and yells that the kid was at fault for being on his way before running away.

Tracking down a witness, schoolteacher Miriam Sullivan, Richard brutally beats her to death in her trailer then bribes a corrupt police officer into erasing evidence. Miriam actually survives and is taken to the hospital though Richard still attempted to murder her.

Meanwhile, Richard asks money to his grandmother Sylvia. Upon her refusal, he physically assaults and strangles her. He robs her safe, steals her purse and storms out of town thought not before calling grandma the C-word.

Joining a criminal organization in Montana, Richard witnesses Cooper's doppelganger brutally killing both the leader Renzo and associate Ray Monroe with total apathy.

Mistaking the doppelganger for the real FBI agent Dale Cooper, Richard decides to confront him alone at a convenience store by pointing a gun at him. Bad Idea. Anyway, the Doppleganger eventually tricks Richard into a trap causing the latter to be electrocuted and disintegrated.

What makes him Personally Hateable?

He threatens to rape a girl and while he doesn't go through it because they're in public, he's sill visibly turned on during that scene. His hit-and-run on the kid is accidental but his utter lack of empathy makes him despicable.

The beatdown of a defenseless teacher and his own grandma on the other hand is completely intentional.

Does he have any Evil Is Cool traits?

Fuck No. He's extremely unpleasant and swears all the time. He's nowhere near as badass as he'd like to be. He goes after easy targets like a middle-aged woman and his gramma. When he actually tries to take the doppleganger, it backfires badly. Nothing to see there.

Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities? Complexity?

Tthe potential issue. In the show proper, he's never played for sympathy at any point during his entire arc. He antagonizes everyone he stumbles upon at every turn. Even his death isn't really an Alas, Poor Villain moment.

His grandfather Ben Horne says that Richard has always been trouble even as a kid. However, his mother Audrey got raped and impregnated as a teenager while she was in the coma. The tie-in book Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier elaborates further that Audrey had trouble raising him on her own and after getting married to her husband, she pretty much abandoned Richard to be raised by his grandparents.

However how Richard felt about it isn't explored at all.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#242: Apr 24th 2019 at 11:50:47 AM

[tup] to Horne.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#243: Apr 24th 2019 at 12:33:33 PM

I'm going to start on the Ace Attorney page.

Let's start with a character from the recent game, Roger Retinz, who was insufficiently heinous to be a Complete Monster. Plus he DOES have a Villain Has a Point moment, which I think might be just enough to disqualify him from this.

Who is Roger Retinz?

Roger Retinz (or The Ratings Rajah) is a Professional Butt-Kisser for authority, and is a Jerkass to anyone with an inkling of relation to Trope Gramarye. He starts off as the producer for Trucy Wright's magic show and forces Bonny, Betty, and even his own stand-in the fake Mr. Reus to play a prank on Trucy. Basically, Reus (Or rather Manov Mistree) was going to pretend to be dead in the coffin making it seem like Trucy had stabbed him. Unfortunately for him, the REAL Mr. Reus also known as Roger hatched a plan to kill Mistree and frame his murder on Trucy Wright. The reason? He was kicked out (read Ret-Gone) of Troupe Gramarye for performing a dangerous stunt with little to no regard for his own safety.

What makes him personally hateable?

Before, during, and after the trial, Retinz tries to make the entire crowd hate the Wright Anything Agency, having them be booed, especially Trucy for her grandfather kicking him out. He repossesses the entire office using a trick contract through a trick clipboard, to embezzle money from Trucy. At first he seems nice to Apollo and Athena when he finds out they are lawyers. That is, until he finds out they are Trucy's lawyers. Then the nice facade drops and Roger shows his true scummy colours. Having killed his own protege for little more than to spite Trucy and frame her for murder saying stuff like "He'll expose the dark secrets behind that sweet smile", conning her out of money, etc as well as trying to get Apollo and Athena, who simply share the office with Trucy, to be out of jobs, this makes him a very hateable character.

Does he have any Evil is Cool Traits? If you call his animation of summoning a burning pillar of fire cool, then yeah, aside from that? Absolutely none. He's scummy to the bitter end and a Sore Loser to boot.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities? Complexity?

He's polite to the Judge, prosecutor, and even Apollo and Athena before finding out they were Trucy's lawyers, so I'd say that makes for a somewhat compelling case to prevent him from being this trope. Not only that but he admits before going to trial that Troupe Gramarye is a bunch of scumbags. Aside from Trucy, Apollo, and Thalassa/Lamiroir he's kinda right. I mean, Magnifi himself asked both his disciples to shoot him in the forehead, and when they wouldn't, he shot himself. Zak cheated at poker and lost, and even Valant tried to frame Zak for murder. So I would say he's just barely complex enough to prevent being this trope.

Verdict?

[tdown] to him.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 24th 2019 at 12:34:21 PM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#244: Apr 24th 2019 at 1:22:15 PM

having a Villain Has a Point moment is hardly enough to Disqualify him, Admiral Zhao had one of those moments, and hell I can think of a few examples of it too. Being polite might have more merit to DQ him but that depends on Context, Ego or Shou Tucker were both Polite and affable to people as they weren't stupid so they hid how bad they really were when it was important.

I should Stress that, having a Redeeming quality or Pet the Dog moment aren't Automatic Cuts like With Complete Monster, it just warrants discussion depending on what the narrative Focuses on.

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 24th 2019 at 1:27:48 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#245: Apr 24th 2019 at 2:17:56 PM

I should note he's not mean to anyone but the protagonists although that might be due to his superficial, sociopath-esque, charm.

He's also listed under Evil Is Cool so if he is approved, we'll have to delete that entry.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 24th 2019 at 2:18:19 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#246: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:59:17 PM

Evil Is Cool isn't Inherently Incompatible. A Hate Sink can have Some Cool traits depending on what the Focus is on, plus Evil Is Cool is a YMMV trope. Like I brought up before Adam Tauras from RWBY has a cool design and is a VERY badass fighter. But the narrative focus is on the fact he's also a Genocidal Domestic Abuser with a Never My Fault complex who tries to have his Ex girlfriends family murdered.

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 24th 2019 at 5:59:42 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#247: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:07:50 PM

I would argue that in some cases, villainous valour may make a character even more despicable, as it shows that they don't have the human decency to beg for undeserved mercy, or that they don't even value their own lives. Such is the case with Ajax/Francis in Deadpool.

I need my beauty sleep. Good night.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 25th 2019 at 5:04:51 AM

Rawr.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#248: Apr 25th 2019 at 9:48:22 PM

So...we established that a Hate Sink character didn't just have to be actual villains?

Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#249: Apr 25th 2019 at 11:28:20 PM

Well, if all that is true, there really is nothing keeping Roger from remaining on the page.

He's got the hateable qualities, is a major Jerkass, tries to ruin a 17 year old magician's life for little more than a petty grudge based on an accident that he caused, yeah I'd say he counts.

Switching to a keep for Roger. If no one objects, I'll begin a new writeup since the old one doesn't really express why he's such a hateable character besides trying to ruin Trucy, Apollo, and Athena.

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#250: Apr 26th 2019 at 12:13:37 AM

[up][up] To clarify, a Hate Sink is virtually a character that offers nothing but an invitation for the audience to vent their hate upon. They are not necessarily villains, but their personalities easily overlaps with villainy. A non-villainous (but still antagonistic) Hate Sink is easy to identify since they normally don't have the Evil Is Cool factor or anything that can easily be attributed to standard villainy. A Hate Sink villain has a higher criteria; namely that their character is deliberately designed to be despised above all else, overriding the Evil Is Cool, Rule of Scary, Villain Has a Point or any other traits that may suggest a softer, sympathetic side.

With that said, this is an objective trope not a subjective audience reaction trope. Theoretically, it can be Played With; but you'll need extensive evidence that the character is enough of a Hate Sink to have the subversion not be confused with a disqualification.

Edited by Shadao on Apr 26th 2019 at 12:15:31 PM


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