News

• Our own Christina Harrison is at EPCOT today for the opening of the annual Food & Wine Festival and she’s sending in live reports throughout the day.
  

• Jim, one of our favorite booths is not around for this year’s festival, and that’s Swanky Saucy Swine. Jim, every day we stray farther from God’s light.
  
• Chrissy reports that many food items have increased in price around $0.25, roughly 5%:

• Germany
• The Alps
• China
• Belgium
• Australia
• Brazil
• Ireland
• At Spain, the paella went up $0.75, or 13%, but that seems to be an outlier
  

• The thing Chrissy is doing today is weighing each of the items versus last year, to check if we’re seeing “shinkflation.”  More on that in an upcoming show.
  
• Chrissy also points out that because Food & wine runs for 115 days - until November 18 - we’ll see snow falling on Main Street USA 6 times - that’s Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween Party, plus the start of Jollywood Nights - before the end of Food & Wine.  
  
  

• Trails End Restaurant and Crockett’s Tavern have reopened at Fort Wilderness.  We’ll have an update on those new menus soon.
  
• Comcast, who owns Universal, reported on its earnings call today that theme park attendance at Universal Hollywood was up, on the strength of their new Nintendo Land, and attendance was down in Florida but didn’t say how much.

Surveys

Listener Questions

• Eight bajillion of you wrote in to remind me that the Mattel theme park is being built in Glendale, Arizona not Glendale, California.  And I’d like to apologize first to my high school geography teacher, Larry Napp of JP Taravella high school, for that mistake.  
  
  
• Claudia writes in with this question about Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween Party:

I am planning to travel to WDW in late Sep, early Oct for one week only and coming all the way from the UK. I’m travelling on my own and the plan is to visit ONLY) Disney parks and make the most of the limited time. I’ve got my park passes and all the other documentation and have even booked my park days. However, I discovered that on the day I wanted to visit the MK (Friday 29 Sep) there is a Halloween party which means that for us non-party people this is an early night.

Should I splurge on a ticket for MNSSHP?  I’m staying off-site on US-192.

• From Brandon:

Since Disney released news about the Fort Wilderness cabins transitioning to a DVC property, we haven't received any new information. I'm curious if you have any information about when the transition will start and take place in earnest.

• On last week’s show we talked about The Barbie Movie and Disney’s struggles with its film franchises.  Greg sent in his thoughts:

Sure, the cost of production has certainly increased, but that is only a small part of the issue.  And you really can't blame the movie-going public not returning to the theaters due to covid either.  Just look at last year's Top Gun 2 success and this year’s Spiderverse movie.  

No, I think Disney has created their own troubles in several ways.  First - streaming.  

 when you know you can wait two months and see the latest movie for "free" (assuming you already subscribe to Disney+) why would you shell out 60-80 bucks to take your family,

Second - bad movies.  Poor scripts have plagued most of their recent movies. It’s too much mediocre Marvel, which is mostly what Disney has produced lately, while Sony has done a great job with Spiderman.  So there are certainly always going to be some external factors that Disney can not control that affects profitability, but I think the major fault of poor box office results for Disney is ..... DIsney.

Len says: I added Greg’s thoughts in because as I watched The Barbie Movie a few days ago (wearing all pink, I might add), the thought I kept coming back to was “Disney doesn’t make movies like this.”  Barbie was funny, smart,  current, self-effacing, and still had a message.  Disney and Pixar lately aren’t producing funny, smart movies like this.  And I think that’s the problem.

Finally, Matt sends in a Wall Street Journal ad from a disaster recovery company called OwnBackup, which … will really sound familiar to a lot of us:

Research/Patents (use query "disney enterprises".as AND "theme park".ab)

Jim, I also revisited the Buddy Baker Archives at NYU this week.  Our listeners will remember that Buddy Baker wrote a ton of music for Disney for 40 years starting around 1960.  And in previous shows we’ve talked about some of the theme park music we found in the Buddy Baker archives that was never used in the parks:

• Two songs from Enchanted Snow Palace, a 1970’s Marc Davis concept for the story that became Frozen.
• Three tracks from EPCOT’s never-built Africa pavilion
• Two songs from the earliest concept for EPCOT’s Energy pavilion, which was supposed to have Jiminy Crickett.
• The earliest song for EPCOT’s USA pavilion, titled “This is America.”

And my goal in visiting this week was to go through the remaining archive boxes that were not directly related to theme parks, and see if anything turned up.  Archiving is a messy business, Jim, and sometimes things get misfiled.

I’m happy to report that I think I’ve found four additional, previously unknown theme park songs:

• Two more songs related to EPCOT’s Energy pavilion:

• A song titled “Conservation” from 1977 with Jiminy Cricket

• Jim, I’m confident this is not for the Jiminy Cricket cartoon about Energy, because that cartoon was released in 1973.

• An untitled song that appears to have the Enchanted Tiki Room birds talking about nuclear fusion - and I think it’s specifically for the Enchanted Tiki Room birds because the lyrics indicate one of the birds is supposed to have a German accent.
• These were both in the “Living with the Land” folder, which makes me think it was part of an EPCOT recording session.

• An undated song titled “Wonderful World of Motion (CenterCore)”
• Something called “Drinking Song”
• A song for Fantasyland titled “Flying Saucer” - I think this was for a film because it references cues and film length, saying (in feet and inches) how long the song is supposed to go on for.

We’re going to get this sheet music recorded as audio, and we’ll talk about them on an upcoming show.

Toy Story Hotel Feature Piece
Revised reference

Intro – Brief History of Pixar Pier / Emerald Hotel of Anaheim

Len intro: Before we get started here today, wanted to circle back on the Pixar Place project. Retheming of Paradise Pier Hotel at the Disneyland Resort.

Disneyana community got its first look at this work-in-progress back in May of this year. Folks were not initially impressed by the lobby area of this hotel. Pretty bare bones back then.

Jim Hill comment: To be fair here, the official grand opening … Well, re-opening of this reimagined hotel isn’t slated ‘til the Winter of 2023. So work will be continuing on Pixar Place for another 5 months yet.

Just last week, a large display of “Luca” -themed art was added to this hotel’s lobby right across from the elevator bank. Later this Summer, a “Finding Nemo” -themed water play area will come online at Pixar Place which will feature a 186-foot-long waterslide. So good things are indeed coming for those who can wait.

Also want to remind folks that this 481-room hotel – while it may be located right across the street to California Adventure – wasn’t originally built by Disney. It started off life as the Emerald Hotel of Anaheim, which opens its doors back in 1984 as a resort that had been specifically designed to cater to Japanese tourists who were traveling to the United States to see the original Disneyland. The Walt Disney Company didn’t actually acquire this property until 1995. And ever since then, there’s been an ongoing effort to make this hotel more appealing to stateside Disney fans.

Jim Shull intro

Len continues: Brought up Pixar Place because … Well, as tough as it might be to turn a pre-existing hotel into a place that celebrates all things Pixar, imagine what it must be like to have to do something like that from the ground up?

Which is why we decided to invite longtime Imagineer – and friend of the show – Jim Shull on Disney Dish today to discuss the Toy Story Hotel. Which opened along with the rest of the Shanghai Disneyland Resort back in June of 2016.

Len & Jim H welcome Jim Shull

Len question for Shull: You’d previously just designed rides, shows & attractions for the Disney Parks. So how did you wind up riding herd on the Toy Story Hotel project for Shanghai.

Shull explains: This was back in the late Spring / early Summer of 2011 (some 5 years before the Shanghai Disneyland Resort first opened to the public). The year previous, I had led the charge on the first Toy Story Land (which opened at Walt Disney Studios Park in August of 2010). And when I got the call about this hotel for Shanghai, I was in the middle of working on the second Toy Story Land (which would open at Hong Kong Disneyland in November of 2011). So at that time anyway, I was considered to be WDI’s Toy Story expert.

Jim Hill interjects: What intrigues me about all this is … Well, when I first heard that a Pixar-themed hotel was in the works for Shanghai Disneyland (This would have been 2010 or thereabouts), the film that this 800-room resort was going to be built around wasn’t “Toy Story.” What I heard was that the Imagineers first wanted to theme this moderate resort around “Wall-E.” And then – when Chinese focus groups reportedly responded poorly to that idea – WDI then wanted to go with “The Incredibles.” Which also supposedly tested poorly with Chinese focus groups, or so I’ve been told.

So the story I’ve always heard about this Shanghai Disneyland hotel was that it got a “Toy Story” theme almost by default.

How Jim Shull wound up with the Toy Story Hotel assignment

Jim Shull response: I don’t know anything about that. All that I know is that – on very short notice – I was invited to do a presentation to Bob Iger. I inherited an already designed hotel building that was shaped like the number “8.” And I asked to come up with ways that this structure could then celebrate the “Toy Story” movies.

Again, this was June of 2011. A lot of folks had already been working on various aspects of the Shanghai Disneyland project for years at this point. So they had elaborate models.

Me? I had days to work on my part of this presentation. So I was only able to work up four rough drawings of a Toy Story-themed hotel for Shanghai Disneyland. But Bob Iger must have liked what he saw. For a week later, I was making my very first trip to the real China. Going to the field to see just where this Toy Story-themed hotel was supposed to be built.

Len query: Just to circle back to my earlier question now: You’d previously worked on Toy Story Lands. The one that was built at Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris and then the one that would eventually be built at Hong Kong Disneyland. What made Mouse House managers think that you were the guy who should ride herd on the Toy Story Hotel for Shanghai?

Jim Shull response: Let me in on WDI’s dirty little secret, at least as far as Shanghai Disneyland was concerned. Phase Two of that theme park was supposed to feature a Toy Story Land of its own. So if Shanghai Disneyland was going to have a Toy Story Land AND a Toy Story Hotel, Disney management wanted those two aspects of the Shanghai Disneyland project to have distinctly different identities. Not have the Toy Story Hotel feel like it was more of the same of what Guests had just experienced when they were visiting Toy Story Land inside of the Park.

Differences between Tokyo Disneyland’s Toy Story Hotel and Shanghai’s Toy Story Hotel

Jim Hill adds: Now where this gets interesting is … Well, isn’t there also a Toy Story Hotel at the Tokyo Disney Resort? I want to say that this hotel – which is that resort’s first moderate – opened back in April of last year.

Jim Shull continues: That it did. But here’s the interesting thing about the Toy Story Hotel in Tokyo. Because neither Tokyo Disneyland OR Tokyo DisneySea has a Toy Story Land … Well, that meant that the Imagineers could really go wild when it came to the Toy Story Hotel for Tokyo. Make it just like the Toy Story Lands at the other Disney theme parks around the globe.

Whereas with the Toy Story Hotel for Shanghai, that wasn’t an option. I remember quite clearly the marching orders I was given on this moderate hotel. Child-like but not childish.

Len comment: Interesting. That sort of reminds me of what Bob Iger once said about the entire Shanghai Disney Resort. How it would be “ … authentically Disney but distinctly Chinese.”

Jim Shull continues: In regard to the Toy Story Hotel project, Mr. Iger also had an additional request. Which was that he wanted me to make sure that this hotel for Shanghai didn’t look like Disney’s Art of Animation in Florida.

Jim H comment: That’s got two Pixar-themed wings, right? The “Finding Nemo” themed one and the other one’s tied to “Cars.”

How Jim Shull folded this hotel’s figure-8 shape into the Toy Story franchise

Jim Shull continues: That may well be. To be honest, I was more concerned about that figure-8-shaped building I inherited when I agreed to come on board Shanghai’s Toy Story Hotel project. My first thought was “Well, how am I going to tie this already-designed structure into the Toy Story franchise?”

But then I remember Buzz Lightyear’s catchphrase, “To infinity and beyond.” And what does the symbol for infinity look like?

Len laughs: Like the number 8, only on its side. Look at you, Mr. Shull. Being all clever after the fact.

Jim Shull continues: Sometimes you get lucky, Len. And speaking of lucky … This 800-room moderate hotel had been designed with two wings. And since the “Toy Story” movies had two lead characters – Woody & Buzz – that’s what I decided the two wings of the Toy Story Hotel should be called: the Woody wing and the Buzz Wing.

Mind you, to make sure that Guests knew which wing of the Toy Story Hotel they were staying in, I had these huge lenticular images of Buzz & Woody created. Which then clearly established which wing of the Toy Story Hotel was which.

Dealing with vendors on the Toy Story Hotel project

Those giant lenticular images were made in China, by the way. And when I had to go to the factory to a progress report on that aspect of the project … Well, that first involved a flight out of Shanghai and then a 5 hour-drive from the airport to the factory.

Jim H comments: Sounds brutal. Can you talk about some of the Toy Story-themed kites that are on display inside of the Toy Story Hotel. I’ve seen pictures of those, and they really look stunning.

Jim Shull continues: That aspect of the project was two-fold. Remember, we’re building a Toy Story-themed hotel in China. So – out ahead of actual construction – we wanted to really zero in on the types of toys that people in China played with when they were kids. And – as it turns out – kites are popular toys in China.

So okay. We now decide we’re going to need Toy Story-themed kites that we can then display in the public areas of the hotel, the common spaces. And because we want these kites to be authentic … Well, that then means that they have to be built in China as well. Which means more plane flights. More long drives to vendors.

Woody & Bullseye sculpt story back at WDI

Len comment: I notice that there’s a huge statute of Woody riding Bullseye right in the middle in the Central Courtyard at the Toy Story Hotel at Shanghai Disneyland. Was that made in China as well?

Jim Shull continues: No. That was sculpted stateside at WDI. In fact, that statue was so big that – when we went to do final inspection of its sculpt – it was so tall that it couldn’t actually be assembled indoors. So when we went to sign off of the sculpt of Woody & Bullseye … Well, this statue was first laid down on the floor at Imagineering and then we walked around all of its various pieces.

Jim H comment: Does the Pixar Place hotel have any oversized character pieces like that?

Paradise Pier Hotel versus Pixar Place (current status)

Jim Shull continues: To be honest, I’m not sure. I think the biggest issue that they’re dealing with – when it comes to that project— is how Pixar Place (The hotel) relates to Pixar Pier (The land within Disney California Adventure Park).

Len query: How so?

Jim Shull explanation: Well, if you remember when DCA first opened, the Company made a huge effort to take what was then known as the Disneyland Pacific Hotel and then make this 15 story-tall structure look like it was part of the Paradise Pier portion of this theme park. So they put crenelations on top of this structure. Not to mention painting the exterior of what eventually became known as the Paradise Pier Hotel with the very same colors that Guests see as they’re wandering around Paradise Pier.

This was deliberately done as part of an effort to bring the Paradise Pier Hotel into the Park. Make it seem like this hotel was a part of the story that DCA was trying to tell.

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure that’s the goal this time around. When you, me & Mr. Hill were inside of DCA back in March, I remember looking across the way at Pixar Place. And – at that point – the exterior of this hotel was painted white.

Len query: At that point in this redo project, it honestly looked more like a hospital than a hotel.

Show conclusion / callback to beginning / tag gag

Jim Shull conclusion: Again – to be fair here – Pixar Place was (and still is) a work-in-progress. I really need to swing by there the next time I’m down in Anaheim. Because – trust me – I know how hard it is to deliver a hotel that’s themed around a Pixar IP. Let alone multiple Pixar IPs.

Let me go see how they’re doing. And then I’ll report back to you & Mr. Hill. But I’ll say this much right now: There’s no way you’re getting me to try out that 186-foot-long waterslide.

• Great chatting with you today.  Fascinating and interesting on all counts. I’m excited about coming on to your podcast.  I spoke to my team about joining me on the show.  They are in and excited as well.  They will nail it with your audience. I’ll be in New Zealand Jan 5-22. Other than those dates, I can be flexible and available to record the show. I look forward to staying in touch and connecting when our paths cross in the same city.  Thanks.
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• Dane Chapin
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• Tel: 760.505.7100
• Email: dane@usaopoly.com