ABC News report on school c.p.

Many schools across the nation
are split on whether any form of
corporal punishment is effective
discipline. (ArtToday)
Spare the Rod?
Corporal Punishment in Schools
Sparks
Debate Over How to Discipline
Students

By Geraldine Sealey

July 23 — Hazel Fournier
remembers her teaching
days back in the 1950s, when
hitting kids who
misbehaved wasn't so
controversial. Now, as a
school board member in Mobile
County, Ala., the
state's largest district, she
sees how times have
changed.

In a measure that's sparked heated debate — as the
topic has across the nation — the school
board is considering putting an end to the practice
of "paddling" in its classrooms. Alabama is
one of the 23 mainly Southern states where paddling
is still legal, and a paddling ban in the most
populous district would likely send waves through the
state.

Paddling, which involves spanking a child with a
wooden board instead of the bare hand, is by
far the most common form of corporal punishment used
in schools. But the Mobile school board,
like many others across the nation, is split on
whether any form of corporal punishment is
effective discipline.

Fournier, who opposes paddling, said she poses this
question to those who support it. "Do you
want someone to spank your child in the classroom
when you're not present to witness it? The
bottom line," she says, "is if you don't want that to
happen to your child, then I don't want it to
happen to any child."

But it is happening to many children, and many
teachers, school officials and even parents
support it — although apparently in fewer numbers
than those who support spanking at home.

While 56 percent said they disapproved of school
spanking in a 1994 Newsweek poll, 65 percent
approved of spanking in general in a 1997 Gallup
poll.

Paddlings Down in Last 20 Years

About 400,000 children are hit each year in public
schools, according to the U.S. Department of
Education, and those data don't even include private
and parochial school incidents. But
paddlings are sharply down since 1980, when 1.4
million children were reported hit at public
school.

Corporal punishment is banned in 27 states. Paddling
is most common in Southern and Bible Belt
states where the "spare the rod, spoil the child"
philosophy is most popular.

Percentage of Students Paddled

Mississippi
10.1
Arkansas
9.2
Alabama
6.3
Tennessee
4
Oklahoma
3
Louisiana
2.7
Georgia
2.13
Texas
2.07
Missouri
1.1
New Mexico
0.9

Source: U.S. Department of Education

Although the decision to allow paddling or not is
made by state or local officials, the federal
government recently got in on the debate. The Bush
Administration supported a recent proposal
in Congress to protect teachers from liability when
corporal punishment is used, but the measure
was eventually dropped.

The threat of lawsuits, in fact, is the main reason
many districts end up prohibiting paddling.

When parents get to court, however, they find a
system not entirely sympathetic to the plight of
kids paddled by teachers. Going back to a 1977 U.S.
Supreme Court ruling that said paddling
was not cruel and unusual punishment, schools are
more likely to prevail in the courtroom.

Not Allowed in Prisons

Beyond the threat of legal action, says Nadine Block,
director of the anti-corporal punishment
Center for Effective Discipline, some districts are
ending paddling to prevent the appearance that
they are neglecting the civil rights of children.

"When you hit kids with a 24-inch board that's an
inch thick and 4 to 6 inches wide, this is not
allowed anywhere else, not in prisons, mental
hospitals, not in the military," Block said. "You
can't hit your neighbor's dog like that and you
certainly can't hit your neighbor with it."

Several medical and educational groups, including the
American Academy of Pediatrics, oppose
the practice.

The cultural momentum against spanking has grown
since the years following World War II,
when parenting experts like Dr. Benjamin Spock spread
the word that children are "little people"
who may not respond so well to the punitive
child-rearing practices of earlier generations.

By the 1990s, some experts claimed corporal
punishment could cause juvenile delinquency,
depression and sexual problems, to name a few. But
for all the rethinking of corporal
punishment, paddling proponents say it's still an
effective tool and say no scientific evidence
proves harm to kids.

A 'Healthy Fear of Authority'

Robert Surgenor, a recently retired police detective
from Berea, Ohio, who headed his
department's juvenile crime unit, says he's a perfect
example of how corporal punishment
works.

Surgenor's own parents spanked him, and in his
experience, it fostered respect for rules.
"Children who were spanked develop a healthy fear of
authority," he said. While in law
enforcement, Surgenor said, he also saw firsthand how
children who had never been spanked
could turn violent.

"They tell us if we strike a child as a form of
discipline, they'll grow up violent," he said. "In law
enforcement, we're finding the opposite is true."

For many supporters of spanking, what's important
isn't the act itself as how it is done. There's a
big difference between physical abuse and properly
administered, mild spanking, they say.

The proper method, says High Point, N.C. pediatrician
S. DuBose Ravenel, is to give one or two
spanks to the buttocks, and only after tempers have
cooled. Spanking should be the last resort,
he says, when other forms of discipline fail.

"Spanking alone isn't the answer," Ravenel said,
"it's a balance."

Using Proper Technique, Guidelines

Many spanking supporters also carry this philosophy
over to the classroom, where they say
someone not involved in the initial dispute should
administer paddling.

Although spanking becomes more problematic when done
in a school setting, Ravenel said, it
could still be appropriate. "I don't think it's
realistic or desirable that a lot of spanking be done in
school, but it also shouldn't be legally prohibited,"
he said. "It should be left up to the parents and
teachers."

Surgenor also recommends that parents and public
school teachers reach an agreement about
the use of corporal punishment. Without paddling,
Surgenor says, "[Students] are not afraid of
the consequences. If you think you're going to get
away with something you're going to do it."

[snip]
: A 'Healthy Fear of Authority'

This is a man who consistently misrepresents published studies and
government figures, and who claims to have research data proving his point
which he summarizes but does not allow anyone else to look at directly.
His claims about a juvenile crime wave are unsupported by either national
figures, Ohio figures, or even crime figures from his home district. No
one else has ever managed to independently replicate Surgenor's alleged
"research data" which no one besides Surgenor himself has ever seen.

The juvenile court judge from Mr. Surgenor's local district, Peter
Sikora has publically stated that Surgenor's claims about a juvenile crime
wave are false and that juvenile crime incidence has been dropping both
locally and nationally. Here is the link:

http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/08/13/loc_police_detectives.html

Surgenor's book was a vanity press volume published at his own
expense without any kind of peer review. His claims have not been
replicated independently by anyone else, and indeed all legitimate
published research has failed to show any evidence that lack of spanking
leads to criminal behavior. We are just supposed to take his word for it
because he is a police officer and he knows more than we do.

He unabashedly holds himself up as an example of a man of superior
character, yet he appears completely comfortable using dishonesty as a
tactic to further his political ends.

: Surgenor's own parents spanked him, and in his

I believe it taught him that if one learns to lie skillfully and
persistently enough, one escapes punishment at least some of the time, and
one can even gain some tangible benefits if one plays one's cards right.
For example, Surgenor has publically stated that the current FBI Uniform
Crime Reports show that juvenile crime is reaching epic proportions, and
that juvenile violent crime is far higher in the USA than it was 20 years
ago. In fact, as anyone who bothers to read the actual 1999 FBI Uniform
Crime Reports quickly discovers, juvenile crime in the USA has been
trending steadily downward for years and is now at historically low
levels. It is barely more than half what it was 20 years ago.

Anyone uncertain about which of us to believe is heartily
encouraged to go to the FBI's website and read the Uniform Crime Reports
for themselves. Here is the URL:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/99cius.htm

See also a recent Associated Press wire story on the historically
low levels of juvenile crime which the USA is enjoying while Robert
Surgenor attempts to convince everyone that the opposite is occurring and
that lack of spanking is the cause of this imaginary kid crime wave of
his:

http://cjonline.com/stories/121500/new_murderrate.shtml

The kind of public contempt for the truth exhibited by Mr.
Surgenor is not the behavior of someone whose upbringing taught him
respect for rules or for honesty. This is the behavior of someone bent on
promoting an agenda based upon his personal Biblically-based obsessions -
a crackpot who is willing to flat-out lie in order to further his ends.

: "Children who were spanked develop a healthy fear of

Surgenor has "seen" nothing of the sort.

Surgenor's only evidence for this claim consists of a single case
history early in his book involving a girl whom he himself admits was
physically punished multiple times in the home. She was apparently the
best example he could muster of how a "never spanked" child turns out
badly, despite the fact that his own case history acknowledges that she
had a history of physical punishment. He claims throughout his book, and
whenever he speaks to the media, that 98.1% of juveniles who attack their
parents were never spanked once in their entire lives, but provides no
independently verifiable data in support of this figure. He simply
doesn't have any. But he is willing to make up imaginary "reseach" in
support of his crusade to force every child to have to go through the
abusive punishments he suffered as a child (which, according to Surgenor,
included belt whippings and blows to the head).

: "They tell us if we strike a child as a form of

Another one of Surgenor's standard tactics is to speak in the
first person plural as if the entire law enforcement profession has chosen
him as its spokesperson. In fact, he is speaking purely for himself and
no one else, without any supporting evidence for his position aside from
Bible quotes and unverifiable assertions and anecdotes. Statistics
gathered by law enforcement agencies nationwide completely fail to support
Surgenor's claims about juvenile crime rates.

For more about Robert Surgenor's continuing pattern of false
public statements and misrepresentation of publically available crime
figures, see

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear3.htm
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear4.htm

[snip]
: Surgenor also recommends that parents and public

This sort of statement completely fails to jibe with publically
available figures which show that school crime and vandalism are greater
in states which permit corporal punishment in schools than states which
don't.

If Surgenor were correct, for example, school shootings should be
most common in school districts in which corporal punishment is not used,
and least common in school districts in which it is routine. In fact, the
opposite correlation exists. In the case of the Jonesboro, Arkansas
school shooter, 13 y.o. Mitchell Johnson, the boy was reportedly paddled
at school the day before he went on his shooting rampage. The teacher he
shot and killed was the same teacher reported to have paddled him
(O'Brien, 1998). This does not necessarily mean that the paddling
*caused* the shooting, although it might have. But it definitely
illustrates that Surgenor's simplistic formulations about harsh
punishments, fear, and alleged resultant good behavior, do not hold up
very well in the real world.

For more on the disproportionately high number of school shootings
in school districts which use spanking in schools and the
disproportionately low number of school shootings in school districts
which have banned the practice, see

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/JonesboroEtc.htm

Chris Dugan, M.A.

US is one of only 6 countries which allows execution of juveniles. Some of
others are Iran and Yemen.

Follow case of N. Brazill.

Then, much like today antispanking zealots, as schools became big, remote, and
distant, educators thought themselves capable of replacing parents. Legal minds
even gave them the in loco parentis mechanism with which to accomplish these
ends.

Now, however, school officials beset by criticism from various quarters,
precieved discipline difficulties, and dominated by radical feminist ideology,
are attempting to distance themselves from parents and parenting. After all,
schoolteachers are professional and parents, well, they’re just a bunch of
amateurs.

The ego of the educator remains the same. Only the field of play has moved a
little more to the left.

That is a good question, Fern

Indeed, I think it is a good question why the USA permits children
and the mentally retarded to be sentenced to death at all, regardless of
the prevailing crime rates.

: US is one of only 6 countries which allows execution of juveniles. Some of

These are not exactly distinguished company for the USA to keep,
from a human rights standpoint.

The US juvenile homicide rate is now the lowest it has been in
over 30 years. The overall juvenile crime rate is a fraction of what it
was in the USA twenty years ago. Today's juveniles are more law abiding
than their parents were at that age, yet they are not getting the credit
they deserve. The majority of US adults mistakenly imagine that juvenile
crime is rising when it is actually falling, and the more TV they watch
the more they overestimate the crime rates nationally and in their local
districts.

Chris

I find this quote interesting because it shows the mentality
of a man who experienced a violent upbringing. Of course, some
people who were spanked as children are honest and conscientious.
But a highly punitive and violent upbringing is more likely,
IMO, as compared to a more cooperative upbringing, to lead to
someone who responds to existing threats rather than to their
own conscience, and who tries to get away with things when
there are no threats. Apparently Surgenor has trouble
imagining anyone acting in a manner based on conscience.
This fits in with his own behaviour of misrepresenting facts
when he can get away with it as Chris pointed out.

--
Cathy Woodgold TISSATAAFL Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~an588/ an...@freenet.carleton.ca
Inability is an abstract thing involving comparison with
alternate universes; it cannot be experienced.

Early in his book (p. 21) Surgenor writes "Consider the results if
every person who was caught shoplifting was immediately taken outsde and
executed on the spot. It would take just a few executions before all
shoplifters would consider another line of work." His solution to all
problems is harsher punishments. His public statements are so extreme as
to defy satire, being unintended self-parodies (such as the above).

This man is a piece of work. He doesn't seem to have any concept of
teaching children empathy and developing a child's conscience. He
genuinely believes that fear of punishment is the sole determining factor
in preventing people from behaving in hurtful, criminal ways towards
others. Clearly, his own moral development was frozen at this primitive
preschooler-aged level. And now that he has taken early retirement he is
devoting his life to influencing as many parents as possible to raise
their children the way he himself was raised.

Incidently, he claims that the antispanking movement was foretold
in Biblical prophesy (p. 126) and that we are trying to create a vast
cohort of unspanked, uncontrollable criminal youth to act as footsoldiers
for Satan at the Battle of Armageddon (p. 128).

: Apparently Surgenor has trouble

Surgenor sent me an email saying that he is going to devote a
chapter of his next book to attacking me personally. He included a
fabricated quotation which he apparently plans to attribute to me which I
never said and would never say. I won't repeat it, but it is an ugly,
hateful statement about Christians. I warned him that I would take legal
action if he maliciously misquoted me for defamatory purposes. I didn't
waste his time or mine attempting to appeal to his conscience or his sense
of fair play, because as far as I can tell he has neither. I threatened
him with consequences since that is the only level upon which he operates,
and is the only level he thinks exists. Robert Surgenor is a living
example of the negative long term effects of punitive, authoritarian
Parent Wins / Child Loses approaches to child discipline.

Chris, whose review of Surgenor's book may be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear5.htm

Fern5827 wrote:

Why indeed, Fern? Does increase in the severity of punishment for juveniles
equate with an increase in juvenile crime rate? How very bizarre!

How are the two related, Fern? We now execute teenagers, and place children as
young as 12 on death row. We also execute the mentally retarded. Are you proud
of this? And why would this even begin to suggest anything about juvenile crime
rate? I'd say this suggests something about the mentality of this nation.

Let's see what that mentality might look like:

"Hit defenseless children, for that is the way of discipline. Cut all social
programs that could benefit children, because that is the way to eliminate "big
brother." Slam repeatedly, CPS, because having better trained and educated CPS
workers would mean an increase in taxes. Why pay more taxes for the welfare of
children? Ridiculous!

When it all blows up and it goes bad, you can always kill the children.

LaVonne

In most other developed countries, there is no death penalty.
And among the minority who still have it, the USA stands out in its
practice of executing children and the mentally retarded. Millions of
people, in Europe and elsewhere, view the USA's use of the death penalty
for children and the retarded with disgust. The festive,
souvenir-teeshirt-selling atmosphere surrounding the recent execution of
Timothy McVeigh spurred further international revulsion. Most Americans
are oblivious to all of this, of course, just as they are oblivious to
most other international perspectives on the USA. The USA is big and fat
and rich so why should we care what other people think of us?

Twelve nations, most of them in Europe, have banned spanking by
law. It is only a matter of time before the entire European Union enacts
such a law. Canada will also ban spanking long before the USA does, as
will quite a few other countries. But hey, we Yanks are big and fat and
rich so what do we care? We hit our kids, and when those children act
worse in the long run, there is always the gas chamber.

Chris

Yes, twelve nations have legally banned spanking, and Canada is close. We are
viewed as barbarians by many European nations, for our treatment of children and for
the death penalty.

This is how I see it, Chris. Don't allow abortion, because human life is sacred.
Don't allow stem-cell research to move forward. We in the US value human life,
potential life, and we have family values and we believe in children.

When children are born in poverty, we ignore them. When they are born to inadequate
parents, we step back because we respect the right of the family. We fail to
protect them from disciplinary hitting, even though research has clearly identified
risk factors associated with such parenting, because parents have rights.

When these children suffer the consequences of our lack of concern and our lack of
protection, we always have the death penalty.

Don't abort them, don't support them, and don't protect them -- after all, we can
always kill them later when they do not live up to our expectations. Human life is
far less sacred after birth! What a great society we live in.

LaVonne

Fair is fair. After all, American's view the Europeans as barbarians for
starting two world wars in less than half a century and drawing American into
the slaughter of untold millions.

And by the way, the French never paid us back for saving their derrière during
the First World War. Well, okay, perhaps they did when they suckered us into
taking over for them in Vietnam.

Then, I've always heard that paybacks are hell.