High performance MW receiver
Pete KE9OA
enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What would
you be more interested in......................a small table top type, or a
portable?
Performance wise, I am talking about something like that of an AOR7030.
I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection, but a couple of
I.F. bandwidths could be possible. Definitely, double conversion, and
digital readout, with good audio quality.
Would you want any presets? How about target price? Do you want a built in
antenna, or external antenna only? High and low impedance antenna inputs?
How about a built in tunable preselector?
E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens. Any of you who have built
any of me receivers know what I am talking about...............I plan to
take the design to the next couple of steps up in performance.
Pete
gabriella
----------
Ron Hardin
program listening is possible without it - the adjacent channel
shares spectrum with one sideband of the channel you're tuned to.
SSB upper and lower, and enough stability to hold the right
frequency for hours.
DSB reception (3dB better than SSB) with suppressed carrier notch,
to kill off slow carrier beats against multiple stations. The R8B
in SSB mode does this but gets only half the S/N that DSB would give.
(SSB and DSB for when there's more than one carrier present - the
pumping of the net carrier anti-pumps the detected audio, making it
unlistenable. Notching out the carrier(s) and just supplying
an internal stable one solves the pumping problem. The sidebands
do not pump by themselves, just the former reference carrier.)
Serious brick wall passband, to kill off an adjacent channel local
modulating the AGC on you.
Huge dynamic range; MW locals require it if you're going to suppress
them.
Audio notch filters against various hets from computer terminals
that the neighbors have.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Diverd4777
Hi Pete:
- Just my choices...
Portable over Small table top;
Double conversion would be a must.
Presets would be invaluable; I have them on the Sangean 606A and the Sangean
DT110
Built in antenna with external port.
DX - Local switch.. ?? always have it on DX..
OR
Tunable pre selector that wou't confuse the average shopper..
( focus group used here ?? ; talk to marketing)
Loop antenna add-ons for DX'ing or distant stations.
extra speaker plug ins for Stereo FM ??
Definitly Digital readout
Small, ( 3 inch?) ported speaker
Knob type Tone controls
Target price.. Dunno, competitive with others in the field..
In article <Ajk7b.134874$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Pete
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
> Portable over Small table top;
Even if it's a somewhat large portable.
> Double conversion would be a must.
> Presets would be invaluable; I have them on the Sangean 606A and the Sangean
> DT110
> Built in antenna with external port.
> DX - Local switch.. ?? always have it on DX..
Far better: RF gain control.
> Loop antenna add-ons for DX'ing or distant stations.
> extra speaker plug ins for Stereo FM ??
Not much stereo FM on the MW band. :)
> Definitly Digital readout
> Small, ( 3 inch?) ported speaker
He said he wanted good audio quality.
> Knob type Tone controls
Pots get noisy. I wouldn't mind electronic controls.
> Target price.. Dunno, competitive with others in the field..
This is not gonna be cheap.
--
"Here, Outlook Express, run this program." "Okay, stranger."
Radioman390
Ceratinly some DRM capability, or a place to add a plug-in card which could be
either DRM, C-QUAM stereo, or the digital AM (IBOC or Kahn?).
Depending on how the digital standard goes, at least the RF could be constant.
10/9 khz tuning (US vs Euro)
Noise blanker
An input for a loop antenna
An input with DC phantom power for an outdoor active antenna
Maybe an antenna switch to switch between lop and other antenna, or two loops.
Good tone controls
Perhaps something like the old Scott DYNAURAL circuit which shaped the flatness
of the audio depending on signal strength, or something like Worcester's AM
circuit which made the IF passband narrower as the signal strength decreased.
Good speaker!
Radioman390
DRM readout to ID stations, songs, etc
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
Pete KE9OA wrote:
> My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new product. If there is
> enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What would
> you be more interested in......................a small table top type, or a
> portable?
You know UL rating is easier when you use a wall wart. Go for a portable
even if it's a little on the large side.
> Performance wise, I am talking about something like that of an AOR7030.
> I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection,
Aw, Pete, go that extra mile.
> but a couple of
> I.F. bandwidths could be possible.
Yes, please.
> Definitely, double conversion, and
> digital readout, with good audio quality.
> Would you want any presets?
With digital readout, presets shouldn't be that expensive. The more
electronically-controlled functions, the easier to do presets, thus
adding bells and whistles. Extra points for IF bandwidth stored with
station, supercool for bass/treble stored. Including a clock? Wanna
be spiffy? Preset for timezone displayed. Easy, cheap, and marketing
will love having a feature no one else has.
> How about target price?
A really hot MW receiver isn't a mass-market product. This ain't gonna be
cheap. Don't make it ridiculous. $150 might be a nice target for a really
hot unit. $39 if it comes pre-misaligned like other super radios. :)
> Do you want a built in
> antenna, or external antenna only?
A cheapo loopstick built in for general use, external input for the
serious DXer.
> High and low impedance antenna inputs?
I know you won't forget to protect 'em against static etc.
> How about a built in tunable preselector?
Probably worth it. RF gain control, too.
A switch and a cap gives you AGC slow/fast control, hint hint. And show
us how *real* AGC works, not that phony auto-stifle lots of designers
come up with.
Selectable 1 KHz tuning resolution. Don't forget 9 KHz if Europe might
be interested.
One alarm timer, one or two "on" timers, and a "sleep" timer that can be
set without having to turn the damn radio off and back on.
Audio line out.
DreamFeature [tm]: two low-Z antenna inputs, one with a unity-gain variable
phase shift 0-90+ degrees. You're Superman if you can do that one cheaply.
Doesn't have to be precisely calibrated, only the range (not the dial
position) is important; only us tweakers will use it.
Kent
"Clifton T. Sharp Jr." <cli...@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F5E0E5A...@clifto.com...
Dale Parfitt
Kent wrote:
> If you do a hot MW receiver for about $150, I will place the first order!
and you had to ask, Pete! Just build it- they will come.
73,
Dale W4OP
Radioman390
I meant RDS, and while we're at it, why not have a little memory button which
would remember a song title when you press it, for later review?
RFCOMMSYS
>
>My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new product. If there is
>enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What would
>you be more interested in.....................
>
Tabletop with large knobs and enough weight , not some tiny 5-ounce radio that
slides all over the desk when you push a button.
Real knobs and buttons, no stupid menu driven radio. I want a radio, not a
computer.
No stupid clock.
Sideband selectable synchronous detector. If not, then SSB capability with
ANALOG fine tuning for manual ECSS.
Actually, analog manual fine tuning would be a good idea regardless, unless the
digital tuner could be tuned in 1 hz steps.
Passband tuning.
A REALLY GOOD noise blanker.
Tunable notch filter.
AGC off/fast/med/slow
A real illuminated S-meter
Really good audio. Not hissy, muddy, or weak.
Filters: 10/6/4/3 khz
Radio should NOT radiate any noise into my loop antenna nearby on the desk.
Digital displays can radiate horrendous noise if not designed correctly.
Both coax and "wire" antenna inputs.
IF output port.
Line out.
If it's a portable with internal ferrite rod antenna, provide a switch to
disengage internal antenna when using an external antenna.
Would be very nice if it received longwave (LW, VLF) too. If so, would require
SSB or CW and a narrow filter for DXing beacons.
Presets would be nice, but not necessary.
Don't care if digital display isn't fancy, only need LEDs for frequency as long
as other functions are indicated by knob positions.
Hint: Think JRC NRD-515 for style and ergonomics.
Gregg
I agree with everything here, except I would make the IF selection
manual. Most purists want to be in control of their machine and will
likely open the box and manually modify it....if buy it at all.
IF BW of 2.5KHz 6KHz and 10KHz per side band for itelligibillity through
audio quality.
Good crystal or mechanical filters too, not crappy ceramic thingies, as
they are certainly not flat in their passband and would require manual
audio EQ to compensate for the midrange hump.
Oh and please, as a former serviceman, paste the schematic on the inside
of the box like the old days :-)
--
Gregg
*Perhaps it's useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Visit the GeeK Zone - http://geek.scorpiorising.ca
Henry Kolesnik
For layout of the knobs and controls take a look at the old Bearcat DX-1000
and refine that ergonomically. A front panel engineered properly wouldn't
require a manual on how to operate it. If you can make it portable so much
the better but include a bnc for a 50 ohm antenna. If its portable make it
so it can be installed in some kind of enclosure that makes it a desktop
unit. While your designing why not make the desk top with plug in modules
that can be upgraded with options and shrink that design to one board for a
somewhat less feature rich portable. I'll bet there's a market if you can
make the price right. Options would include ocxo, vlf, filters, synch det,
uhf conv, scannning, more memories, 10 Hz readout, then 1 hz
readout...spectrum scope, timer, etc. A person should be able to afford the
stripped down unit and listen and then as budget permits add the desired
modules. Repairs would be module swaps.
Best of luck in doing it.
73
hank wd5jfr
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Ajk7b.134874$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Gregg
flourescent display, but no LED's). Push-button-digital is for teens.
Serious audiophool's use dials and knobs ;-)
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
I actually aimed him at $150 believing it will be considerably higher.
We want features that might not fit into a $150 retail price. Still,
give this enough goodies and purchase time is defined by how fast I
save my milk money.
Pete KE9OA
This is supposed to be a budget unit..............I can design
all of those things into the unit, but it probably wouldn't be too cheap!
Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F5DDB...@mindspring.com...
> Must have synch detection and selectable sideband. No serious MW
> program listening is possible without it - the adjacent channel
> shares spectrum with one sideband of the channel you're tuned to.
>
> SSB upper and lower, and enough stability to hold the right
> frequency for hours.
>
> DSB reception (3dB better than SSB) with suppressed carrier notch,
> to kill off slow carrier beats against multiple stations. The R8B
> in SSB mode does this but gets only half the S/N that DSB would give.
>
> (SSB and DSB for when there's more than one carrier present - the
> pumping of the net carrier anti-pumps the detected audio, making it
> unlistenable. Notching out the carrier(s) and just supplying
> an internal stable one solves the pumping problem. The sidebands
> do not pump by themselves, just the former reference carrier.)
>
> Serious brick wall passband, to kill off an adjacent channel local
> modulating the AGC on you.
We've already got that.
>
> Huge dynamic range; MW locals require it if you're going to suppress
> them.
>
I am shooting for 5 volts of RF, before overload sets in. This way, very
long wires can be used. My present design already has better dynamic range
than my Drake R7.
> Audio notch filters against various hets from computer terminals
> that the neighbors have.
> --
> Ron Hardin
> rhha...@mindspring.com
Thanks for the input, Ron!
Pete
Pete KE9OA
necessary; we will have a great dynamic range. The tunable preselector seems
to be a good thing. I will be pricing Type 61 ferrite rod stock tomorrow.
We were even talking about having some sort of band scanning spectrum
display, but right now, that is in the air. I will be bringing in one of my
own units tomorrow, and we will launch off from there.
Pete
Diverd4777 <diver...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030909102040...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Pete KE9OA
About that RF gain control...........I believe that you might want that, so
that the AGC can be disabled, so that low frequency hets won't modulate the
AGC bus. That can be compensated to an extent, by using a fast attach, slow
release type of AGC.news:3F5E038E...@clifto.com...
Gregg
> You do have some good ideas, and I am listening. A DX switch won't be
> necessary; we will have a great dynamic range.
Am I to assume then that you plan a double-balanced diode ring mixer?
Pete KE9OA
universal. No need to worry about 9 or 10kHz steps if this is done. With
my current units, you can connect an untuned 6 foot loop directly to the the
50 Ohm antenna input, and the results are pretty dramatic. From my location
in the Chicago area, I can receive WLW, on 700kHz, with an S8 signal level.
WJR, on 760kHz, comes in at about an S7, while on 610kHz, I can receive
Kansas City Missouri, and the Ohil station fighting each other, at an S7
signal level. If I want to listen to MW, I don't even bother using my
AOR7030, Palstar R30, Icom R75, or Yaesu
FRG100...........................none of them is as hot.
Radioman390 <radio...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20030909131627...@mb-m13.news.cs.com...
> I would prefer a table radio like a Tivoli or old KLH21
>
>
> Ceratinly some DRM capability, or a place to add a plug-in card which
could be
> either DRM, C-QUAM stereo, or the digital AM (IBOC or Kahn?).
>
> Depending on how the digital standard goes, at least the RF could be
constant.
>
> 10/9 khz tuning (US vs Euro)
>
> Noise blanker
Before I implement a noise blanker, I want to develop a NB design that I
have been slowly working on..............this would be a Quadrature type.
The advantage to this type is that it would have dynamically variable
blanking width, with a null of right around 50dB. Still working on that one
>
> An input for a loop antenna
>
> An input with DC phantom power for an outdoor active antenna
>
> Maybe an antenna switch to switch between lop and other antenna, or two
loops.
>
> Good tone controls
>
> Perhaps something like the old Scott DYNAURAL circuit which shaped the
flatness
> of the audio depending on signal strength, or something like Worcester's
AM
> circuit which made the IF passband narrower as the signal strength
decreased.
>
> Good speaker!
Amen!
Pete
Pete KE9OA
Gregg <nos...@unknown.org> wrote in message
news:FWv7b.81342$_5.13...@news1.telusplanet.net...
Actually, if you terminate those ceramic types properly, the passband ripple
is less than 1.5dB.
>
> Oh and please, as a former serviceman, paste the schematic on the inside
> of the box like the old days :-)
I do plan on making schematics available..............the one thing that
perturbs me these days is the high price that one must pay for circuit
information. Oh, did I tell everybody that there will be no tuning
adjustments required. We may even warp the 2nd LO through software.
Pete KE9OA
microprocessor going into sleep mode with no user activity. Oh, I do like
those knobs...........I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyway, the problem
with the flourescent displays is that they are pretty noise. I plan on this
receiver having an MDS of 40 to 50nV, so things have to be pretty quiet. I
think that I will also go with an outboard supply; this avoids that UL
qualification. Another advantage to this approach is that my outboard power
supply can be used with other people's equipment. Take a look at the power
supply on my website, and you will see that it doesn't take much to design a
quiet power supply. On my general coverage receivers, even when operating
off the AC line, when I tune down to 9 or 10kHz, all I hear is atmospheric
noise.
Pete
Gregg <nos...@unknown.org> wrote in message
news:P%v7b.81356$_5.13...@news1.telusplanet.net...
Randy Padawer
radio will need to be darned good to beat CCrane's "CCRadio Plus."
Maybe others will disagree, so I'm ready for the education I deserve
if that's the case. However, as it stands now, I'm pretty impressed
with that commercially available receiver.
Randy (WA4FJF)
Pete KE9OA
Pete
Radioman390 <radio...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20030909183556...@mb-m15.news.cs.com...
Pete KE9OA
for, the price would probably be around the 250 dollar range. The clock
function is pretty cool, but I am still working on my ultra cool clock, that
changes color throughout the spectrum as the day progresses. I was thinking
of that one for another product. I've got a dozen products on the burner
right now. It's pretty cool, working for an employer that wants to do these
kinds of things.
Pete
Clifton T. Sharp Jr. <cli...@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F5E0E5A...@clifto.com...
Pete KE9OA
DXers will want to buy it.
Pete
Kent <ka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0Vo7b.21108$Fd2....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Pete KE9OA
developing an RF AGC loop, so this unit will be very overload resistant.
Also, since the AGC loop will originate in the I.F. strip, after the
filtering, strong, out of passband signals will not capture the AGC bus.
You see how yours works...............picture it at the next step.
Pete
Dale Parfitt <par...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3F5E1CA4...@gte.net...
Pete KE9OA
time, until I started building my own receivers
I plan to have the audio amplifier running in a wide bandwidth mode, so the
product will have a nice "hi-fi" sound.
Pete
RFCOMMSYS <rfco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030909220410...@mb-m11.aol.com...
Pete KE9OA
VLF through MW tuning range this afternoon. Now, as far as OCXOs, when I
was working for Motorola, the general price quotes were in the 500 to 800
dollar range. TCXOs were a little bit cheaper, in the 50 to 80 dollar
range, and this is with a 5ppm drift rate. 1ppm units were in the 100
dollar range.
Henry Kolesnik <wd5...@oklahoma.net> wrote in message
news:vlt2spo...@corp.supernews.com...
> Pete
> For layout of the knobs and controls take a look at the old Bearcat
DX-1000
> and refine that ergonomically. A front panel engineered properly wouldn't
> require a manual on how to operate it. If you can make it portable so
much
> the better but include a bnc for a 50 ohm antenna. If its portable make
it
> so it can be installed in some kind of enclosure that makes it a desktop
> unit. While your designing why not make the desk top with plug in modules
> that can be upgraded with options and shrink that design to one board for
a
> somewhat less feature rich portable. I'll bet there's a market if you can
> make the price right. Options would include ocxo, vlf, filters, synch
det,
> uhf conv, scannning, more memories, 10 Hz readout, then 1 hz
> readout...spectrum scope, timer, etc. A person should be able to afford
the
> stripped down unit and listen and then as budget permits add the desired
> modules. Repairs would be module swaps.
> Best of luck in doing it.
Hank, I appreciate the input.............I knew that there was demand for
this type of unit. While all of these options are good, especially the
upgradable topology, I think that development costs would be quite high. I
was thinking about something a little bit "leaner", although with
superlative performance.
Pete
Pete KE9OA
all of these replies into a Word document, and presenting them to my
employer tomorrow morning. Hopefully, we can make this thing really fly. I
am really excited about some of the refinements that some of the folks at
work have brought up. We had a design meeting that lasted almost 2 hours
this evening, so I think that things look good. Oh, one more
thing......................I believe that we will be selling directly to the
public initially, instead of going to distributers. Once we get this
product to market, I will be there to provide technical support, answer any
questions, etc. Thanks again, folks! You are a great bunch!
Pete
Henry Kolesnik <wd5...@oklahoma.net> wrote in message
news:vlt2spo...@corp.supernews.com...
Pete KE9OA
At the Madison, Wisconsin gathering a couple of years ago,
one of the folks brought along his CCRadio. I brought a couple of mine
along, and we just let the CCRadio sit along, looking happy. While the
CCRadio is a good receiver, this new unit of mine will be ten steps above
that in performance. The units that I have built so far have been pretty
comparable in performance to my Racal 6790/GM. Another
analogy..................picture a Collins 75A-4, and picture it with an
antenna with performance better than a Palomar loopstick antenna, but not
quite as good as the large Kiwa antenna, and..............you get the drift.
Even with a 6kHz Murata ceramic filter, the skirt selectivity is steep
enough that you can separate the sideband components from the carrier of an
AM signal. I think that you would be very pleased with the product. It's
going to be a winner.
Pete
Randy Padawer <pad...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:edd286fc.03090...@posting.google.com...
RHF
Sounds like you what a Radio built in a computer mini-tower case that
accepts various modules to create your own radio.
I like the basic low price Idea with the add-on features later as you
go. A basic $150 radio could turn into $600 to $750 worth of extra
sales as the radio is added on to to reach the owners personal needs.
Basic AM/FM/SW Radio $150
Including: Digital Frequency Display, RDS & Clock Timer Module
+ Extra IF Dual Band Pass Filter Module $150
+ + AM-SYNC & SSB Module $150
+ + + DRM Decoder Module $150
+ + + + FM DX & Stereo Module $150
+ + + + + Loop Active Antenna Module $150
+ + + + + + CD/DVD Recorder Module $150
Hey In a Years time, I could buy and build a $1000 Radio.
~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Henry Kolesnik" <wd5...@oklahoma.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<vlt2spo...@corp.supernews.com>...
starman
>
> Must have synch detection and selectable sideband. No serious MW
> program listening is possible without it - the adjacent channel
> shares spectrum with one sideband of the channel you're tuned to.
I agree. Sync' detection is the one feature missing from all current AM
(MW) receivers for the masses. I would prefer it to be a portable. I
guess the sync' feature would mean a price of at least $100. I wonder if
the Sony sync' (AM-stereo) chip would be available for your project, now
that the '2010' is out of production? Otherwise you would have to use
general purpose IC's for the sync' circuit. That's what Drake did. Good
luck with it.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
MRe
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> schreef in
bericht
news:Ajk7b.134874$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att
.net...
> My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new
product. If there is
> enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the
market. What would
> you be more interested in......................a small
table top type, or a
> portable?
> Performance wise, I am talking about something like that
of an AOR7030.
> I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection,
Synch detection is a MUST for a high quality AM radio.
> but a couple of
> I.F. bandwidths could be possible. Definitely,
> double conversion, and
> digital readout,
Single conversion with a good preselector is O.K
Up conversion may also be considered
> with good audio quality.
For mediumwave reception LOWE's HF150 should be your guide
in performance,
(Not in ergonomics). The synch detector is very high quality
> Would you want any presets? How about target price? Do
you want a built in
> antenna, or external antenna only? High and low impedance
antenna inputs?
> How about a built in tunable preselector?
> E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens.
This is usenet, more people are interested in the
discussion.
donut
> E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens. Any of you who have
> built any of me receivers know what I am talking about...............I
> plan to take the design to the next couple of steps up in performance.
You will never go above the 1950s 6 tube superhet in performance. Forget
it.
--exray--
> HK,
>
> Sounds like you what a Radio built in a computer mini-tower case that
> accepts various modules to create your own radio.
>
> I like the basic low price Idea with the add-on features later as you
> go. A basic $150 radio could turn into $600 to $750 worth of extra
> sales as the radio is added on to to reach the owners personal needs.
>
> Basic AM/FM/SW Radio $150
> Including: Digital Frequency Display, RDS & Clock Timer Module
> + Extra IF Dual Band Pass Filter Module $150
> + + AM-SYNC & SSB Module $150
> + + + DRM Decoder Module $150
> + + + + FM DX & Stereo Module $150
> + + + + + Loop Active Antenna Module $150
> + + + + + + CD/DVD Recorder Module $150
>
> Hey In a Years time, I could buy and build a $1000 Radio.
>
>
> ~ RHF
Pete and RHF, I'm sure you're probably familiar with the Elecraft K2 ham
rig. They've created one of the better ham rigs on the market, even
though its a kit, using this building block concept. I guess more
importantly, they've stayed busy with updates and kept their thumb
firmly attached to the pulse of the users. Customer Support is as
important and demanding as any of the physical features.
Oh, as for ergonomic features, Puleez put the headphone jack on the
front of the radio!
GL,
Bill
Randy Padawer
Randy (WA4FJF)
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<Zqz7b.133064$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
MJC
the CCRadioPlus. It is a perfect mixture of size, portability, reception and
sound quality. It works off both AC and battery, and it's battery life is
exceptional off of C cells. It's sound is as good as any table top radio (or
better).
As for all the rest, I think everyone else here has already listed all
the desired technical features and if you manage to incorporate them all
into the package as I described (like the CCRadioPlus), you'll have a
winner.
The only concern then is if you will be able to offer it at anything
reasonable in cost. We all know you can't set something for nothing so, as
the designer, you're the one who'll have to figure out the best compromise
of cost and features that will sell well on the open market.
MJC
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Ajk7b.134874$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new product. If there is
> enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What
would
> you be more interested in......................a small table top type, or
a
> portable?
> Performance wise, I am talking about something like that of an AOR7030.
> I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection, but a couple of
> I.F. bandwidths could be possible. Definitely, double conversion, and
> digital readout, with good audio quality.
> Would you want any presets? How about target price? Do you want a built
in
> antenna, or external antenna only? High and low impedance antenna inputs?
> How about a built in tunable preselector?
> E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens. Any of you who have
built
> any of me receivers know what I am talking about...............I plan to
> take the design to the next couple of steps up in performance.
>
> Pete
>
>
Stephen M.H. Lawrence
"Gregg" <nos...@unknown.org> wrote:
| IF BW of 2.5KHz 6KHz and 10KHz per side band for itelligibillity through
| audio quality.
I dunno about the 10 kc, Gregg. I'd go for
something really tight, at NRSC BW. Anything
wider than that, you're just asking for noise.
73,
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, MN
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Kent
Also, you say you are in Chicago. What side of town? I get to Chicago on a
weekly basis.
Kent Winrich, K9EZ
Menomonee Falls, WI
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pty7b.133023$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Pete KE9OA
today. I do like that modularized approach. If I use a TDA1572 as the 2nd
I.F. subsystem, it is easy to have an I.F. output jack, as well as the
ability to add a Sync detector further on down the line.
Pete
Randy Padawer <pad...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:edd286fc.03091...@posting.google.com...
Pete KE9OA
sound. As far as performance, we are talking about 18 tube performance, not
6 or 7 tube performance. I do understand your doubts, but I think that you
will be pleasantly surprised.
Pete
donut <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93F2222...@216.102.43.227...
Pete KE9OA
design a small (but not too light) tabletop model AND a portable model.
Thanks for the good input!
Pete
MJC <nos...@noway.com> wrote in message
news:bjn7u9$6...@library2.airnews.net...
Gary
and believe it's reception is only fair, with poor selectivity
compared to my Grundig Satellit 800. Even my Grundig S350 is better
than the CCRadio.
My biggest problem with MW is interference from hologen lamps,
dimmers, etc. I don't know if there is any NB that will eliminate
this type of interference.
What I would like to see is:
A portable with a large enough quality speaker to get a decent bass
response, separate tone controls (or even better, a graphic equalizer
tailored to reduce certains frequencies associated with different
types of interference), at LEAST two GOOD bandwidths, a superior
built-in directional antenna, and of course a selectable sideband
option would certainly be nice.
If your set is a real step up from what I currently have, I will
definitely be a buyer!
Gray Shockley
(in message <fc4afcdc.03091...@posting.google.com>):
> I'm getting excited about this new MW receiver. I have the CCRadio
> and believe it's reception is only fair, with poor selectivity
> compared to my Grundig Satellit 800. Even my Grundig S350 is better
> than the CCRadio.
>
> My biggest problem with MW is interference from hologen lamps,
Generally, there is no interference from halogen lamps themselves, I have two
in my radio room and there is no interfernce whatsoever from them.
However (and you knew this was coming, right? <grin>) these have off-lo-hi
switches. I have one in the living room which has a dimmer switch and it
tears up anything that gets close. Some of this latter design will even
interfere when they're turned off.
> dimmers, etc. I don't know if there is any NB that will eliminate
> this type of interference.
>
> What I would like to see is:
> A portable with a large enough quality speaker to get a decent bass
> response, separate tone controls (or even better, a graphic equalizer
Over the years, I've used from one tone control to nine and the simplest that
worked well was three controls, the standard trebel and bass and a "midrange"
that covered (typically) from 300 to 3000cps/Hertz.
> tailored to reduce certains frequencies associated with different
> types of interference), at LEAST two GOOD bandwidths, a superior
> built-in directional antenna, and of course a selectable sideband
> option would certainly be nice.
>
> If your set is a real step up from what I currently have, I will
> definitely be a buyer!
Gray
RHF
IIRC: DRM requires 12kHz or 15kHz.
So the first two are A-OK at 2.5kHz and 6kHz; but a third at 12/15kHz
would made the radio's IF Section up-grade-able to DRM is desired.
jm2cw ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Stephen M.H. Lawrence" <73s...@earthlink.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<DkG7b.3391$TC1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
RHF
You ar right the CCRadio (Grundig S350?) are nice size radios.
- - - The Sangean ATS-909 and Grundig YB-400 are simply to small.
Pete,
If a Portable Radio, I would prefer something the Size and layout of
an Panasonic RF-2200 and nothing smaller than a Sony ICF-2010.
If a Desk Top Radio, then I would prefer something the Size and layout
of a JRC NRD-515 (Drake SW2?).
TBL: Basically, a Radio that's Size and layout is "Human Engineered"
for Big Old Fingers and Tired Old Eyes.
~ RHF
.
.
= = = "MJC" <nos...@noway.com>
= = = wrote in message news:<bjn7u9$6...@library2.airnews.net>...
RHF
Start with a simple Product "Indevelopment" internet website to
provide information and a potential client list: beyond the first
page the webee has to 'sign-up' to view the rest of the website and
you offer an eMail Up-Dates Subscription List. These things can help
in creating the before market BUZZ !
Then when the product is ready to ship, transform the internet website
into a Product "For Sale" Market Basket OnLine Ordering System for
Direct Marketing and Sales.
Simply with "Word of Mouth" and a Internet "Tell A Friend" based
program a large maket can be tapped at a low cost.
st3a ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<SRy7b.133045$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Frank Dresser
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:J1I7b.133398$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> That's the amazing thing about this design; it does have that tube like
> sound. As far as performance, we are talking about 18 tube performance,
not
> 6 or 7 tube performance. I do understand your doubts, but I think that
you
> will be pleasantly surprised.
>
> Pete
>
18 tube performance? Now you've got my attention. Will it weigh at least
60 lbs? Will it have more knobs and controls than a Wurlitzer theater
organ? Will the wrinkle paint be tight and even? When I ask what it costs,
will you say "Dollar a pound, maybe less, just don't start whining about a
strained back."?
Frank Dresser
Matt
I think the idea of a high performance MW radio is a great idea!
There is definately a good market for it. The main competitor I would
imagine would be the CC Radio, so your end price would have to be
comparative to that. I am a MW DXer, so I hope I can give you some
helpful advice and encouragement. No matter how the radio takes
shape, it probably goes without saying that it should be able to be
powered by both AC and DC. If you can only pick one, go with DC.
First, I offer three suggestions if you must keep it cheap.
1. Analog tuning. However please keep the dial accurate and as even
and as spread as possible, with a marking for each kHz. This will
enable the listener to know if he is tuned to 832 kHz or 837 kHz for
example. The needle which shows the listener where he is tuned should
be narrow yet brightly colored. Many current radios suffer from
squashing the high end frequencies together... this should be avoided.
In fact, I'm sure many MW DXers would agree with me that although they
might prefer digital tuning, if you could produce a radio with a very
accurate and evenly spread analog dial, they would gladly accept the
trade-off. No matter what you do, please keep the noise floor as low
as humanly possible in this radio (another reason to go analog).
2. Make sure the radio's own antenna can swivel independently from
the radio itself. Some old radios have this helpful feature. It
allows you to keep the radio pointed right at you so you can read the
dial, and just swivel the antenna. Make the antenna as big and as
sensitive as possible, whether it be a loop or a stick. Also, please
allow for the ability to switch off this antenna so that an external
antenna could be added by the listener. Would it be possible to
incorporate some sort of phasing relationship between the external
antenna and the radio's antenna without adding much cost? If so, that
could be a third switch position on the radio's antenna controls.
3. Use high quality filters with 3 different positions... wide,
narrow, and super narrow. If only two are feasible, I would strongly
recommend narrow and super narrow.... not many listen to music for
enjoyment on MW radio these days, and since this radio is designed
mainly for distance listening I'm sure a wide position wouldn't be
missed.
If you can add a few more expensive features, I'll rank them in
importance.
1. Sync detector. The sync detector on my Sony 2010 really helps me
dig out stations that my other non-sync radios cannot. How much per
unit would a sync detector cost?
2. If this radio does take a digital form, a dozen presets would be
nice. If at all possible, it would be great to have a memory scan
feature where these 12 stations could be scanned repeatedly, with the
radio pausing 10 seconds on each frequency before moving on to the
next. The listener could program in 12 MW stations they use as
benchmarks for DX conditions, and then let the radio scan through them
automatically.
That's it for me... I really think this is a great project and wish
you all the luck in the world. I would be glad to publiicize too on
the various MW groups and lists on the net as well once it is
produced.
Gregg
> "Gregg" <nos...@unknown.org> wrote:
>
> | IF BW of 2.5KHz 6KHz and 10KHz per side band for itelligibillity
> through | audio quality.
>
> I dunno about the 10 kc, Gregg. I'd go for something really tight, at
> NRSC BW. Anything wider than that, you're just asking for noise.
Besides the DRM noisemakers, there's still a few stations smart enough to
use Khan ;-)
--
Gregg
*Perhaps it's useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Visit the GeeK Zone - http://geek.scorpiorising.ca
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> 1. Sync detector. The sync detector on my Sony 2010 really helps me
> dig out stations that my other non-sync radios cannot. How much per
> unit would a sync detector cost?
The sync detector on the 2010 was born because Sony had tons of AM stereo
demultiplexor chips and nothing to do with them. By the time the 2010
came out AM stereo was dead.
Anyone out there with a AM stereo receiver? (mine was stolen in 1989).
A brilliant engineer figured out that with a slight circuit modification,
he could add a sync detector (unheard of on a consumer radio) and get
rid of those chips.
With the demise of the SW77, I doubt those chips are still available.
Now, to throw my own two cents in. :-) I'd like to see the unit
"EMP hardened" to the point that a nearby lightening strike would not
damage it. I live 3,000 feet up in the desert and we get some very strong
lightening storms.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson g...@mendelson.com 972-54-608-069
Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: geoffrey_...@hotmail.com (Not for email)
Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets.
Frank Dresser
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnblv72...@cable.mendelson.com...
>
> The sync detector on the 2010 was born because Sony had tons of AM stereo
> demultiplexor chips and nothing to do with them. By the time the 2010
> came out AM stereo was dead.
>
It's true that AM stereo isn't the big deal that it's promoters claimed it
was,
but it's hardly dead. It certainly wasn't when the 2010 was introduced.
By the mid 80's, I'd say the AM stereo receiver market was still growing.
AM stereo was approved in 82.
There's three AM stereo stations here.
> Anyone out there with a AM stereo receiver? (mine was stolen in 1989).
Two. One's the car radio.
>
[snip]
>
> Geoff.
>
>
Frank Dresser
Stephen M.H. Lawrence
Ten - Tec RX320D model has DRM capability, and is
priced right for that application. I wonder when or if we
will ge DRM for mediumwave?
At any rate, point taken.
73,
Steve
"RHF" <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e5e13af8.03091...@posting.google.com...
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03
Stephen M.H. Lawrence
73,
Steve
"Gregg" <nos...@unknown.org> wrote in message
news:WZM7b.105483$kW.105432@edtnps84...
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Pete KE9OA
top unit might be the first way to go, with a rotating loopstick on top,
similar to the way Palomar does it with their antenna. Depending on price,
we may go with an LCD graphics type of display, so that BW, tuning step,
RSSI, and frequency will be displayed. Tone controls could also be an
option. If we can find a reliable source of Sync Detector chips, that could
also be an option, but usually, these types of devices are on allocation
with the larger radio manufacturers. I went through just this type of thing
when I was working for one of the research divisions at Motorola. If we
weren't buying 10,000 devices a week, vendors of some of these specialty
items were not interested.
It was interesting; you look at some of these vendors such as CTS, our in
Sandwich, Illinois. I needed some OCXOs for a critical project. I was told
by one of their engineers (I am not going to name him) that they were not
interested in selling us only 30 units, at 400 dollars each. Same thing
with the Oak Frequency Group.
Murata pulled the same thing on one of the smaller radio manufacturers in
this country; their rep told that company that they were going to
discontinue all ceramic filter production. I called their headquarters down
in Smyrnia, Georgia, and asked them about this. I asked them if they had
another source where we could purchase our ceramic filters from (Motorola),
since they were discontinuing their filter line. They changed their tune.
The point of all of this is that unless you are a very large entity, most
companies don't want to deal with you. Exceptions are Analog Devices,
Mini-Circuits, Phillips, Coilcraft, and a few others. The companies that DO
want to deal with smaller entities will provide us with the wherewithall to
put this radio into production. I still need to find a reliable source of
4kHz and 6kHz ceramic filters. A couple of you mentioned the use of
Mechanical Filters...............this is a possibility, but we are talking
about 86 dollars each for these filters, unless you buy at least a couple
hundred at a time. The price then goes down to 50 dollars each. An example
of this is Palstar.....................when Paul provides the optional
Mechanical Filter for his radio, at a slightly higher price, he isn't making
any money on that filter. I know what he pays for those filters. Another
thing, these are the same filters that some of the other manufacturers are
selling as options in the $120.00 plus range.
In conclusion, I want to thank all of you for your input...........I am
listening, and presenting this information to my employer. We will be
moving carefully on this project; we want to make sure that we come out with
a product that people want to buy. I do believe that a portable unit will
also be on the horizon, but that will probably be our next product.
I have also contacted the National Radio Club, to see what some of their
members might be looking for. My next move is to
put my feelers out on my website.
Pete
RHF <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e5e13af8.03091...@posting.google.com...
Pete KE9OA
No, it won't weigh that much, but I can fill it with some
very dense ballast, if you like! Seriously, you will be able to expect the
kind of RF handling performance that you get out of an R390. One of the
things that some of the people at Rockwell-Collins commented on was the AGC
performance. Some of those folks have actually built one of the earlier
designs.
I took a couple of my units to work yesterday, in an all metal building. The
AM-FM radios that they have been using will not pull in even the local
Chicago stations without quite a bit of noise. When I was able to show them
WTMJ, in Milwaukee, coming in pretty clearly, they were convinced. When they
asked me to tune in a distant station, I tuned in WLW, on 700kHz. This was
at 4:00 yesterday afternoon. Granted, the signal was at a low level, but
were were able to discern the audio, even in that metal building. Thanks
for your comments!
Pete
Frank Dresser <analo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:lhK7b.133577$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Pete KE9OA
the tone control circuit is beginning to sound like a better and better
idea. I think that this can be implemented into the design. The main thing
is the choice of turnover frequencies of the tone control circuit, for the
best sound. Back in the early to mid 90s, I used to design and build custom
acoustic instrument amplifiers, so I've got a bit of experience with tone
control circuitry.
Thanks for those comments!
Pete
Gray Shockley <gra...@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BB84C0D2...@news-south.giganews.com...
Pete KE9OA
That is exactly what I plan to use..............I have been
using that topology for several years now, so I've got the Diplexer design
nailed down pretty well. Take a look at my website, and you can see how
I've got this implemented. I've got a few downloadable zip files of some of
my designs (no, I won't hide the schematic from the final product).
I am not sure why more manufacturers don't use doubly-balanced mixers,
especially when you can purchase a Mini-Circuits ADE-3 mixer for around 3
dollars. We are talking about a mixer with an SSB conversion loss of around
4.7dB, which, since this is a passive topology, translates approximately to
a noise figure of around 5dB. Since this is a Level 7 mixer, the IP3 should
be around +14dBm. Compare this to an Analog Devices AD831 mixer, which has a
+20dBm IP3, but has a 12dB NF. To reduce the NF to that of the ADE-3, you
need to have an RF amplifier ahead of that mixer. Let's say that we need
10dB of takeover gain from the RF amplifier; we now have an IP3 of only
+10dBm from that AD831, and we still need all of those external support
components for that mixer.
Pete
Gregg <nos...@unknown.org> wrote in message
news:Hoy7b.104542$ho5.1...@news2.telusplanet.net...
> Behold, Pete KE9OA signaled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
>
> > You do have some good ideas, and I am listening. A DX switch won't be
> > necessary; we will have a great dynamic range.
>
> Am I to assume then that you plan a double-balanced diode ring mixer?
Brenda Ann
> Thanks, Gary. I think that a portable will definitely be on the horizen,
and
> the tone control circuit is beginning to sound like a better and better
> idea. I think that this can be implemented into the design. The main thing
> is the choice of turnover frequencies of the tone control circuit, for the
> best sound. Back in the early to mid 90s, I used to design and build
custom
> acoustic instrument amplifiers, so I've got a bit of experience with tone
> control circuitry.
> Thanks for those comments!
>
> Pete
Do you have any experience with the Motorola tone control chips? Those are
quite nice, and just fit right in the normal audio chain with just a few
external components (capacitors, mostly). IIRC, they have about a 12 or 16
dB boost/cut, and I would imagine that you could tailor the crossover
frequencies with the external components..
Pete KE9OA
DXing machine. With that wider bandwidth, I am not sure if we would need
good group delay characteristics, but I do know that the IP3 of the 2nd
mixer would suffer from out of bandpass signals. I do like the idea of the
2.5kHz bandwidth, but right now, Murata has discontinued production of the
CFJ/CFR series of filters that have that bandwidth. I would surmise that
the larger manufacturers have made a lifetime buy of those filters. I think
that the only option for a narrow bandwidth filter is the Mechanical FIlter.
Pete
RHF <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e5e13af8.03091...@posting.google.com...
Pete KE9OA
I am up in Mount Prospect; if you want to come down and
audition one of the current units, that would be ok. I still have to work
out the details for a high level AGC loop, and I am also working on a low
noise synthesizer for the next generation, but feel free to shout me down
when you are coming to town. Hey, have you ever made it to the Madison
DXer's gathering? One of the fellows has moved to Milwaukee, so the next
gathering will be in that town. This last one was pretty good, although I
didn't make it. They did have some well known folks up there, such as Gerry
Dexter, Neil Katsiros, etc.
Pete
Kent <ka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5xG7b.22362$Fd2....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Pete KE9OA
Pete
Clifton T. Sharp Jr. <cli...@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F5EB010...@clifto.com...
> Dale Parfitt wrote:
> > Kent wrote:
> > > If you do a hot MW receiver for about $150, I will place the first
order!
> >
> > and you had to ask, Pete! Just build it- they will come.
>
> I actually aimed him at $150 believing it will be considerably higher.
> We want features that might not fit into a $150 retail price. Still,
> give this enough goodies and purchase time is defined by how fast I
> save my milk money.
>
> --
> "Here, Outlook Express, run this program." "Okay, stranger."
Pete KE9OA
synthesizer....................system noise floor will be down around -138
to
-142dBm. I worked in the Synthesizer Group at Rockwell-Collins for awhile,
so I learned all of the things that my mother was afraid to tell me about
synthesizer. Those Rockwell-Collins folks were great!
It probably will be DC powered, using a low noise power supply of my own
design.
Matt <omegaN0...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:3f5f6f92...@news.newsguy.com...
>
>
> I think the idea of a high performance MW radio is a great idea!
> There is definately a good market for it. The main competitor I would
> imagine would be the CC Radio, so your end price would have to be
> comparative to that. I am a MW DXer, so I hope I can give you some
> helpful advice and encouragement. No matter how the radio takes
> shape, it probably goes without saying that it should be able to be
> powered by both AC and DC. If you can only pick one, go with DC.
>
> First, I offer three suggestions if you must keep it cheap.
>
> 1. Analog tuning. However please keep the dial accurate and as even
> and as spread as possible, with a marking for each kHz. This will
> enable the listener to know if he is tuned to 832 kHz or 837 kHz for
> example. The needle which shows the listener where he is tuned should
> be narrow yet brightly colored. Many current radios suffer from
> squashing the high end frequencies together... this should be avoided.
> In fact, I'm sure many MW DXers would agree with me that although they
> might prefer digital tuning, if you could produce a radio with a very
> accurate and evenly spread analog dial, they would gladly accept the
> trade-off. No matter what you do, please keep the noise floor as low
> as humanly possible in this radio (another reason to go analog).
>
> 2. Make sure the radio's own antenna can swivel independently from
> the radio itself. Some old radios have this helpful feature. It
> allows you to keep the radio pointed right at you so you can read the
> dial, and just swivel the antenna. Make the antenna as big and as
> sensitive as possible, whether it be a loop or a stick.
I think that we will go this route, with the antenna. I've got several
pounds of Litz wire, to prototyping isn't a problem. I still need to get
ahold of some Type 61 ferrite rod stock for the antennas.
Also, please
> allow for the ability to switch off this antenna so that an external
> antenna could be added by the listener. Would it be possible to
> incorporate some sort of phasing relationship between the external
> antenna and the radio's antenna without adding much cost? If so, that
> could be a third switch position on the radio's antenna controls.
That is out of my realm of knowledge, although it it a great idea.
>
> 3. Use high quality filters with 3 different positions... wide,
> narrow, and super narrow. If only two are feasible, I would strongly
> recommend narrow and super narrow.... not many listen to music for
> enjoyment on MW radio these days, and since this radio is designed
> mainly for distance listening I'm sure a wide position wouldn't be
> missed.
I think that we will go with two. Even with the 6kHz bandwidth, though, the
skirt selectivity is sharp enough to separate the sideband component from
the carrier of an AM signal.
>
>
> If you can add a few more expensive features, I'll rank them in
> importance.
>
> 1. Sync detector. The sync detector on my Sony 2010 really helps me
> dig out stations that my other non-sync radios cannot. How much per
> unit would a sync detector cost?
This is a good feature, but so far, I haven't been able to locate a good
source of these chips
>
> 2. If this radio does take a digital form, a dozen presets would be
> nice. If at all possible, it would be great to have a memory scan
> feature where these 12 stations could be scanned repeatedly, with the
> radio pausing 10 seconds on each frequency before moving on to the
> next. The listener could program in 12 MW stations they use as
> benchmarks for DX conditions, and then let the radio scan through them
> automatically.
This is a good idea; we were also thinking of incorperating this feature
into some sort of Spectrum Scope function. Still up in the air on this one.
>
>
> That's it for me... I really think this is a great project and wish
> you all the luck in the world. I would be glad to publiicize too on
> the various MW groups and lists on the net as well once it is
> produced.
Thanks for your input, Matt! You've got some good ideas. I appreciate your
offer on the MW group thing!
Pete
Pete KE9OA
thing off of our website right now.
Pete
RHF <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e5e13af8.03091...@posting.google.com...
Gregg
> Hi Gregg,
> That is exactly what I plan to use..............I have
> been
> using that topology for several years now, so I've got the Diplexer
> design nailed down pretty well.
You sir, are a god! Do you know how many people that are so-called
"engineering professionals" that do not know how to diplex the output of a
diode DBM?
I'm sold, when can I buy it ;-)
> I am not sure why more manufacturers don't use doubly-balanced mixers,
> especially when you can purchase a Mini-Circuits ADE-3 mixer for around
> 3 dollars.
Because they can pay 15 cents for a 2SCxxxx.
It all comes down to money. Nothing is about quality, just mark-up and
useless features.
You seem to be doing something that hasn't been done since the late 1950's
- engineering a soul into the unit :-)
You have my highest respect.
Gregg
> We were thinking of either LCD, or statically driven LEDs, with the
> microprocessor going into sleep mode with no user activity. Oh, I do
> like those knobs...........I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyway,
> the problem with the flourescent displays is that they are pretty noise.
> I plan on this receiver having an MDS of 40 to 50nV, so things have to
> be pretty quiet. I think that I will also go with an outboard supply;
> this avoids that UL qualification. Another advantage to this approach
> is that my outboard power supply can be used with other people's
> equipment. Take a look at the power supply on my website, and you will
> see that it doesn't take much to design a quiet power supply. On my
> general coverage receivers, even when operating off the AC line, when I
> tune down to 9 or 10kHz, all I hear is atmospheric noise.
Gotcha on the noise factor. I don't multiplex, but use "static" driven
nixies, so I never thought of the noise.
I use outboard supplies on all my tube low-level audio designs like mic
preamps and mixers. Works awesome!
LCD's are cool. If you choose that route, may I suggest LED backlighting?
That would eliminate electroluminescent driver noise and last forever
compared to incandescent.
My #1 repair call that's not computer related lately is "my lights burned
out". I replace them all with superbright white LED's, or if the customer
wishes, a funky color of their choice :-)
donut
> That's the amazing thing about this design; it does have that tube
> like sound. As far as performance, we are talking about 18 tube
> performance, not 6 or 7 tube performance. I do understand your
> doubts, but I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.
I had a 28 tube radio - Collins R-392. My Radio Shack DX-440 (Sangean 803A)
easily equalled it in performance on MW.
I'm a bit of a weirdo, so bear with me. I want a huge analog slide rule
dial with a small digital counter embedded in the center. In other words, I
like to tune analog, but want digital accuracy. I hate digital stepped
tuning, which is why I no longer use the DX-440.
I like knobs. You can grasp a knob and turn it. I hate sliders.
I want 2-4-6-8-10 filters.
I like the idea of a rotating ferrite bar for casual listening, but want an
antenna in jack as well.
Sync detection is great.
How about a backlit dial that is continually lighted.
Gregg
Diverd4777
ALL of these features described above & in previous posts sound great,
but there is a price point at which,
no matter how gorgeous the set looks or how many features, the customer will
slide by & buy another one..
- A great looking Base Unit that "runs circles" around the " average set"
and a slew of Plug in and Add on features may be the way to go . . .
In article <Xns93F311B...@216.102.43.227>, donut <no...@none.com>
writes:
Doug Smith W9WI
> option. If we can find a reliable source of Sync Detector chips, that could
> also be an option, but usually, these types of devices are on allocation
> with the larger radio manufacturers. I went through just this type of thing
> when I was working for one of the research divisions at Motorola. If we
> weren't buying 10,000 devices a week, vendors of some of these specialty
> items were not interested.
FWIW there's a sync detector circuit on page 15.34 of the current ARRL
Handbook. (I think it's been in the Handbook for several years) It
uses two NE602s and a NE604, the latter seems to be a FM IF/detector
chip. It's a fair number of parts (may be too expensive simply due to
component count) but I don't think any of them would be particularly
hard to get.
Having used it on the ICF-2010 IMHO you *REALLY* need to consider a sync
detector, dropping other features if necessary. Especially if you hope
to sell to program listeners as well as DXers.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com
Frank Dresser
multiplier or Q multipliers to change it's shape and bandwidth?
The notch/peak of a Q-multiplier is a very sharp exaggeration of single
tuned circuit. Could a double tuned band pass circuit also be used?
Tuneable band pass notches at both the upper and lower sidebands with a peak
in the middle would be very useful and would reduce the need for several
fixed filters.
I use a Heathkit Q-multiplier. When it's tuned to the center of the IF
frequency, advancing the regeneration control will smoothly sharpen the peak
and progressively cut the side bands until it breaks into oscillation. It's
like an IF frequency tone control! Pretty cool. Another good trick is
tuning in the sidband farthest from the interference. Then I bring the
carrier back up with the Q-multiplier. Or I can use the tunable notch to
get rid of hets.
Frank Dresser
Tom2000
<n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new product. If there is
>enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What would
>you be more interested in......................a small table top type, or a
>portable?
>Performance wise, I am talking about something like that of an AOR7030.
>I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection, but a couple of
>I.F. bandwidths could be possible. Definitely, double conversion, and
>digital readout, with good audio quality.
>Would you want any presets? How about target price? Do you want a built in
>antenna, or external antenna only? High and low impedance antenna inputs?
>How about a built in tunable preselector?
>E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens. Any of you who have built
>any of me receivers know what I am talking about...............I plan to
>take the design to the next couple of steps up in performance.
>
Great news, Pete!
How about a different approach? Direct conversion architecture, tail
ended by a high-performance DSP processor.
Perhaps if you post your project's design constraints and target
customer base we could give you some real-world suggestions. The way
you phrased it, I'm very tempted to "ivory tower" you into the finest
tabletop that $23,000 can buy! <g>
Good luck with your project, and have fun. Please keep us apprised
of your progress.
Very 73,
Tom
RHF
Until then, you can continue your dialog here.
Or - You could simply start up a YAHOO! eGroup
- - - "High-Performance-MW-Receiver-Project"
There you can create a Message Archive, Photos, Links and Files for
all to share and add to the knowledge base.
Plus the Membership List is a Ready List of 'potential' Customers.
st3a ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<iMV7b.137142$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Kent
nice gatherings!!
I will email you direct so we can talk further!
Kent, K9EZ
"Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:UxV7b.137138$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
radiok3pi
Please, no slider controls for anything!
Also, please consider a mechanical on/off switch like the Sony 2010.
This enables one to keep in "on" state and turn it on/off via digital
timer and make unattended recordings and be able to vary the # of
recordings and length of them.
For battery power, please consider C or D cells for longer life. It
will also help add weight to the radio to prevent the slide around
problem.
Any chance of a gyro antenna, a la Panasonic RF-2200?
Thanks - please keep us updated!
Russ K3Pi
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
> > [posted and mailed.]
>
> Those do sound like good ideas, but I think that with what you are asking
> for, the price would probably be around the 250 dollar range.
I figured as much or more myself. I said "$150 might be a nice target"
just to lower the aim, not move the target. :)
> I've got a dozen products on the burner
> right now. It's pretty cool, working for an employer that wants to do these
> kinds of things.
If I had the qualifications, I'd probably come be your assistant. :)
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
> Thanks again, folks! You are a great bunch!
I know you'll thank us by offering a really great radio. :)
Brenda Ann Dyer
than my pocketbook will cough up...
(@)@)
~~
Diverd4777
>than my pocketbook will cough up...
>
>(@)@)
Tend to disagree Brenda;
- IF theres a BASIC Model
with a menu of add-ons
:)
- Everyone should win !!
In article <bjr1ji$9d7$1...@news1.kornet.net>, "Brenda Ann Dyer"
Gray Shockley
(in message <53da5b99.0309...@posting.google.com>):
> Here are some non-technical requests.
>
> Please, no slider controls for anything!
Russ got this right!! Slider controls have just gotta be the dirtiest
controls ever made. I think that the factory must put the dust in them as
part of the assembly process.
I'm going to throw this out (up? <grin>) just because I want to.
How 'bout separating the case into two separate cases: the radio itself and
the audio section and speaker?
And, then, offering two audio sections: one solid-state and one with tubes?
Gray Shockley
-----------------------
DX-392 DX-398
RX-320 DX-399
70น Longwire
Torus Tuner (3-13 MHz)
Select-A-Tenna
-----------------------
Vicksburg, MS US
Ouch! That hurt!!
Pete KE9OA
http://home.att.net/~n.gianakopoulos/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
The reason for my setting up that website was to encourage folks to see just
how easy it is to build some high performance equipment. I do need to
qualify, though, that this next design will take those website designs up a
few steps.
Pete
Clifton T. Sharp Jr. <cli...@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:3F60F760...@clifto.com...
Pete KE9OA
to do that, that would be great! I can see that this thread is getting
pretty long!
Pete KE9OA
Pete KE9OA
Pete
Brenda Ann <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
news:bjp5mc$5ad$1...@news1.kornet.net...
Pete KE9OA
Right now, even with a Murata CFWS-455H at the 2nd I.F. skirt selectivity is
very good. I think that this is because of the cascaded effects of the
diplexer
(15kHz BW), and the high I.F. filters.
Pete
Frank Dresser <analo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:lY%7b.134758$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Pete KE9OA
tuning caps, and with the exception of Palstar (he builds his own high
quality caps), nobody seems to make them. That analog tuning dial with a
small digital display would be pretty cool looking, somethink like the Bruel
and Kjaar? (excuse my spelling) test equipment, or the Sansui 919 AM/FM
tuner.
donut <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93F311B...@216.102.43.227...
> "Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
> news:J1I7b.133398$0v4.9...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> > That's the amazing thing about this design; it does have that tube
> > like sound. As far as performance, we are talking about 18 tube
> > performance, not 6 or 7 tube performance. I do understand your
> > doubts, but I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.
>
> I had a 28 tube radio - Collins R-392. My Radio Shack DX-440 (Sangean
803A)
> easily equalled it in performance on MW.
>
> I'm a bit of a weirdo, so bear with me. I want a huge analog slide rule
> dial with a small digital counter embedded in the center. In other words,
I
> like to tune analog, but want digital accuracy. I hate digital stepped
> tuning, which is why I no longer use the DX-440.
>
> I like knobs. You can grasp a knob and turn it. I hate sliders.
You should see my HF receivers.................I use variable frequency BFO
injection for that reason.
>
> I want 2-4-6-8-10 filters.
>
> I like the idea of a rotating ferrite bar for casual listening, but want
an
> antenna in jack as well.
Definitely
>
> Sync detection is great.
That could be on the horizon, as an add-on. The 2nd I.F. chip that I plan
on using (TDA1572) has a buffered, 50 Ohm I.F. output, just for this reason.
The reason that I haven't considered Sync detection right now, is because I
have haven't yet been able to locate a source of the chips. It seems that
these devices are either on allocation to the large radio manufacturers, or
they are discontinued, and those same radio manufacturers have made lifetime
buys of the remaining stock.
Pete
>
> How about a backlit dial that is continually lighted.
How about a dial pointer that continously changes color, based on signal
strength? If I could find a steady, fairly priced source of good tuning
capacitors (ceramic standoff types), I would go this route. Actually, I
will go with 1kHz tuning steps; this gives a pretty good "analog" feel on
the MW band. I am also thinking about having the radio set up for 9 and 10
kHz steps, but for the 9kHz steps, I would need to also have the unit set up
for the European bandplan. I guess it wouldn't be too hard for our software
guy; he is pretty good.
Pete
>
Pete KE9OA
that used a 4046 Phase Detector. I will definitely consider this one. As
for myself, there is nothing like that sound of the selective fading, to
bring back those youthfull memories of my early DXing days.
On another note......................I could use an Analog Devices AD607. I
tried that chip in the past, but it seemed pretty finicky to work with,
getting the phase shift network to work properly. Maybe I will give it
another try............this would have the Sync Detector self-contained on
only one chip. As with many other chips AD gives an application note for a
10.7MHz based circuit....at 455kHz, you are on your own.
Pete
Doug Smith W9WI <w9...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3F6072E4...@invalid.invalid...
Pete KE9OA
later model. When I was working at Rockwell-Collins, I did get to play with
the 95S-1 a little bit, and it seemed to be a good receiver. I did have an
HF-2050 for awhile, and it seemed pretty good.
I know that there are some companies like Gray Chip that make some digital
receiver devices, and I am sure that others have jumped onto the bandwagon.
Thanks again, Tom!
Tom2000 <ab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:j9e1mv4igunvdle77...@4ax.com...
Pete KE9OA
mechanical switch for power.
Pete
radiok3pi <k3...@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:53da5b99.0309...@posting.google.com...
Pete KE9OA
Brenda Ann Dyer <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
news:bjr1ji$9d7$1...@news1.kornet.net...
Pete KE9OA
Tube design is not one of my areas of expertise, but I do plan
on having a line out jack, so folks will be able to hook up the unit to the
amplifier of their choice, in addition to using the high quality built-in
amp.
Pete
Gray Shockley <gra...@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BB869EE9...@news-south.giganews.com...
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
> Tube design is not one of my areas of expertise, but I do plan
> on having a line out jack, so folks will be able to hook up the unit to the
> amplifier of their choice, in addition to using the high quality built-in
> amp.
For that tube feel, you could connect the chassis to the power line, so
that connecting the line out to an amplifier or whatever is a REAL
adventure. :)
RFCOMMSYS
I just wanted to stress again that if you don't put a selectable-sideband synch
detector in the radio, then you MUST provide a way to do manual ECSS tuning,
which means SSB mode, passband tuning, and (very important) an ANALOG fine
tuning control to zero-beat on the carrier.
For what it's worth, I would not buy a radio for MW DXing that lacks these
features. I've been an MW DXer since the early 60's, and I think synchronous
detection or manual ECSS have been THE biggest MW DX advancements I've seen. I
know it's helped me tremendously. 5 continents heard on MW and counting!
Good luck on your project!
Pete KE9OA
when I was still working for Rockwell-Collins, I think, back in 1998. It
was over at Bill D's house.
Pete
Kent <ka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0I48b.138$jT...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Gregg
> That's a definite...........LED backlighting is the way to go. It
> sounds like you are in the industry.
>
> Pete
My work is repairing, my hobby is designing. I currently have an all-tube
SW receiver on the go ;-)
--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca
RHF
Anything 'interesting' to report on your High Performance MW Receiver
in the making ?
~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Pete KE9OA" <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<Ajk7b.134874$3o3.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> My employer has given me the go ahead to design a new product. If there is
> enough interest, I will design a new MW receiver for the market. What would
> you be more interested in......................a small table top type, or a
> portable?
> Performance wise, I am talking about something like that of an AOR7030.
> I don't think that I would be inplementing Sync Detection, but a couple of
> I.F. bandwidths could be possible. Definitely, double conversion, and
> digital readout, with good audio quality.
> Would you want any presets? How about target price? Do you want a built in
> antenna, or external antenna only? High and low impedance antenna inputs?
> How about a built in tunable preselector?
> E-mail me directly, and we will see what happens. Any of you who have built
> any of me receivers know what I am talking about...............I plan to
> take the design to the next couple of steps up in performance.
>
> Pete
Radioman390
>in the making ?
Yeah, we designed it, produced it, promoted it and sold a bunch.
Didn't you get one?
Well, it's now obsolote and has been discontinued/we will not produce another.
Maybe you can find it on eBay