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[W:132]Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border...

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

jnug said:
Well trump is "honest" in one sense. He does not make any effort to hide the fact that he is an ignorant blowhard. Heck, we all know people who's every waking thought just comes tumbling out of their mouths the very second they have it. The only dif with Trump is that whatever is tumbling around in his gut comes spitting out of his mouth. I wonder if anybody has introduced him to Antacids. Seems to have indigestion a good deal of the time.
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Do you think it's okay for someone so easily unhinged to have the nuclear codes? Look what he's just done in Syria, ffs.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Idiometer said:
He did not say that he would try, he promised it as a done deal, and he promised the Mexico would pay for it. And you believed him.
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And they chanted that at every rally. Trump would ask "who is paying for the wall?" and they would scream MEXICO. They need to start screaming LIAR at him.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

LowDown said:
None of Trump's "lies" or exaggerations mean anything. It all falls under the heading of "blowhard" and "bluster". Nothing that even comes close to the magnitude, seriousness, and the deliberate misleading of the American people for partisan political gain of "If you like you health care plan you can keep it."
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You really think Obama's one big lie was worse than the thousands Trump has told since taking office?

BTW, your motto, "If I don't answer your post it's because you lost the debate." -- That's the motto of someone who really doesn't want a debate, just a platform to state his own opinions.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Border walls don't work?

Well, other than what's already been proven to work.


Those who continue to purport that walls don't work seem to be contradicted by facts on the ground, so just more political propaganda from the usual, and suspect, sources.
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There are no facts from any reputable source that a wall on our southern border would work or is even possible. It is strictly a fantasy by one blowhard that you listen to for some inexplicable reason. On top of that you are in a minority that lost the popular vote in the last 2 elections and 5 out of the last 6 Presidential elections. Stick a fork in it already. It's DONE.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Idiometer said:
Do you think it's okay for someone so easily unhinged to have the nuclear codes? Look what he's just done in Syria, ffs.
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I would not trust Trump with the keys to 1996 Chevy.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

LowDown said:
I DID offer a pro-Trump argument. Did you miss it?

I don't know what were gonna do, though. I mean, who ever heard of this? Politicians lying?
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Yes, politicians lie, but it isn't difficult to catch them out if you're paying attention and doing a tiny bit of fact-checking. With Trump, it's really easy, since he lies about nearly everything. But you believe him? Or do you just think it's okay for him to lie because he isn't really a politician? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but as soon as he announced his candidacy, he became one.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Arby said:
Then try backing up your BS about the NRA.
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You and haymarket need to get a room. You're clogging up this thread.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Xelor said:
Red:
The other member isn't going to have a remotely sensible answer to your question. He won't because there isn't one. The other member is on the line of unreason predicated on the notion that once erected, one need not monitor goings on with the wall itself and in the environs in which it stands. His remarks imply a "set it and forget it" model (edit: in post 42, I see, s/he moved from tacitly saying so to expressly saying so), which is utterly preposterous.
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Exactly! Well said.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

veritas1 said:
It won't be in very mountainous regions but those are areas which can easily be monitored by other means. The wall will work quite effectively. Any argument that walls don't work is simply nonsense. They do. It's why people keep building them.
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Who needs a wall when we have camera drones? Satellites? Guys on hilltops with binoculars? Can't see through walls, which is why border patrols don't want one.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Idiometer said:
You and haymarket need to get a room. You're clogging up this thread.
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No thank you. All I ask is that the evidence I have already submitted be read.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

jnug said:
I would not trust Trump with the keys to 1996 Chevy.
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Me, neither. He probably never learned how to drive, if his performance behind the wheel of a stationary truck, complete with "motor noises" emanating from his little cake hole, is any indication.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Border walls don't work?

Well, other than what's already been proven to work.


Those who continue to purport that walls don't work seem to be contradicted by facts on the ground, so just more political propaganda from the usual, and suspect, sources.
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See the analysis found in the linked content in the OP and the following:
What's necessary and that hasn't been presented is a specific, rigorous and sound case -- functional and economic -- that the border wall Trump wants to build is "worth it."

The fact that one or more border walls ever were successful at achieving whatever goals gave rise to their erection has absolutely nothing to do with whether the wall Trump wants to build currently on the US southern border will yield similar results, to say nothing of whether such a structure will materially reduce illegal immigration. The prospect of Trump's wall's efficacy must be established on the merits of the circumstances in which his wall be "asked" to function.

You, like others, have failed to apprehend that the "burden of proof" is on Trump to show with a materially unassailable case -- "materially unassailable" because no matter the case's rigor, it'll contain minor qualitative elements that can and will be challenged, e.g., "wall" vs some similar standing physical barrier, or some other semantic shortcoming; however, if those flaws/elements inadequacy don't materially alter the structural, contextual and factual soundness of the case/conclusion, they're immaterial -- that his wall proposal augurs to achieve "this and that" specific outcomes. Naysayers, in contrast, are burdened with showing the case presented is or isn't sound/cogent. If they can soundly/cogently show the case Trump presents isn't sound/cogent, Trump's case "fails." Of course, to date, Trump hasn't presented a case, let alone a sound/cogent one; all he's done is present a summary assertion/conclusion/idea.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

iguanaman said:
There are no facts from any reputable source that a wall on our southern border would work or is even possible. It is strictly a fantasy by one blowhard that you listen to for some inexplicable reason. On top of that you are in a minority that lost the popular vote in the last 2 elections and 5 out of the last 6 Presidential elections. Stick a fork in it already. It's DONE.
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Dismissing Harvard study so quickly?
Dismissing Harvard study so 'out of hand'?

Walls of Separation: An Analysis of Three 'Successful' Border Walls | Harvard International Review

Surely you value academia more highly than that! At least there are claims of being the 'party of science', and academia, after all, or have you also forsaken those on as well?

Seems you'd do that only on the alter of your political agenda and alter of your political narrative.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Dismissing Harvard study so quickly?
Dismissing Harvard study so 'out of hand'?

Walls of Separation: An Analysis of Three 'Successful' Border Walls | Harvard International Review

Surely you value academia more highly than that!

Seems you'd do that only on the alter of your political agenda and alter of your political narrative.
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Did the study include our southern border? No. Case dismissed. Next you will be telling us that the Great wall of China worked too.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

iguanaman said:
Did the study include our southern border? No. Case dismissed.
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The studies clearly showed how border walls are effective, and you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your political agenda and narrative.

You are dismissed.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
The studies clearly showed how border walls are effective, and you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your political agenda and narrative.

You are dismissed.
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Not only is a comparison with totally different regions and situations irrelevant, the American people have spoken and they also don't want a wall. Minority rule will never work here. Give it up or move out. This is not Germany in the 1930's and you will not get away with burning down the "Reichstag". It's over and you lose.
 
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Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

While I have commented on the lack of anything like a proposal from the Trump administration with regard to Border Security and most specifically 1,100 miles of new physical barrier I find the constant use of examples that are simply not relevant to the situation on our Southern Border annoying and counterproductive. For example the Israeli border barrier system is constantly raised. Well for one thing it is far shorter than the 1,100 new miles of physical barrier apparently under consideration here and way way shorter at 440 miles than the physical barrier would be here at 1,900 miles should 1,100 new miles be added.

The Israeli barrier is physical barrier in depth supported by border guards who's rules of engagement include the use of lethal force at long range and outside the bounds of self defense. Myself I am not at all convinced we want border guards using lethal force at our Southern border or at any US border unless they are threatened. Now even as I post this, I am dead certain that there are some that would relish giving our Border Guards rules of engagement that included lethal force. Frankly I have no empathy for that view and I don't see Americans generally holding that view. It goes without saying that both the barrier system in depth and the use of lethal force among others are critical elements of the Israeli border barrier system that would distinguish it from what we would have here.
 
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Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

iguanaman said:
Not only is a comparison with totally different regions and situations irrelevant, the American people have spoken and they also don't want a wall. Minority rule will never work here. Give it up or move out. This is not Germany in the 1930's and you will not get away with burning down the "Reichstag". It's over and you lose.
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Would seem that there are quite a number of others which would disagree with you.

$15,358,525 of $1.0B goal
Raised by 251,599 people in 5 days
https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall
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No one in support of the border wall is declaring that the US is Germany in the 1930's, but with some thousands of illegal aliens illegally crossing the border each month, you and others, some how, consider this as some sort of 'normal' border security?
tenor.gif
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Would seem that there are quite a number of others which would disagree with you.



No one in support of the border wall is declaring that the US is Germany in the 1930's, but with some thousands of illegal aliens illegally crossing the border each month, you and others, some how, consider this as some sort of 'normal' border security?
tenor.gif
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Stop the fear mongering. It has failed miserably and you are beating a dead horse. Stick a fork in it. If this had anything to do with border security your leader would not be docking the pay of those responsible for it.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Dismissing Harvard study so quickly?
Dismissing Harvard study so 'out of hand'?

Walls of Separation: An Analysis of Three 'Successful' Border Walls | Harvard International Review

Surely you value academia more highly than that! At least there are claims of being the 'party of science', and academia, after all, or have you also forsaken those on as well?

Seems you'd do that only on the alter of your political agenda and alter of your political narrative.
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LOL...That essay does not provide unvarnished approbation for Trump's wall....not even something close to such an accolade.

In the end, the wall would be very expensive, a larger project than the walls of all three countries in this analysis combined. In addition, if the government were to enact all of these suggestions to increase the effectiveness of the wall, the price would increase to an exorbitant level.
-- Walls of Separation: An Analysis of Three 'Successful' Border Walls | Harvard International Review​
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Hawkeye10 said:
I mean the argument that Trump trying to do what Trump said that he was going to try to do when he asked for the job, Trump trying to do what the people who voted for him overwhelmingly want done, that this makes him a bad person.....that's sick.
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He claimed to want the wall to stop illegal immigrants. I agree with those that have said it's now about his ego. He didnt campaign on a wall for his ego.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

eohrnberger said:
Would seem that there are quite a number of others which would disagree with you.
$15,358,525 of $1.0B goal
Raised by 251,599 people in 5 days
https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall
Click to expand...

No one in support of the border wall is declaring that the US is Germany in the 1930's, but with some thousands of illegal aliens illegally crossing the border each month, you and others, some how, consider this as some sort of 'normal' border security?
tenor.gif
Click to expand...
Red:
There's no denying that many Americans cotton to the notion of building a wall.[SUP]1[/SUP] That they do and how many do (or don't, for that matter) has no bearing on the existential efficacy of erecting the wall and what soundly quantified returns doing so may produce.

As a point of fact, however:



Note:


  1. It's ridiculous to say things like "a lot of people" when the eligible quantity of people is the adult population of the US, which is about 242M individuals. Yes, 254K persons is, in the abstract, a lot of people, but insofar as we're talking about an initiative buoyed by the POTUS, it's "nothing" (it's about 1/10[SUP]th[/SUP] of one percent). Indeed, just to put perspective on that, if some 300K individuals were all that supported the man, he wouldn't even be POTUS. Moreover, were one to limit the eligible quantity to the population of folks who voted for Trump, about 63M, 300K is still not so much as a proverbial "drop in the hat" (it's about 2/5[SUP]ths[/SUP] of one percent).
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Hawkeye10 said:
Trump is the most honest guy to come down the Pike in a long while.
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You have a very interesting take on honesty then. I'd imagine an honest person wouldn't put his name on a sham learning institution, or call Forbes pretending to be someone else and providing false information to bolster his supposed wealth. Those aren't things I attribute to an honest person, but your miles may vary. I think you may be confusing lack of tact and forethought with honesty.
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

ElChupacabra said:
You have a very interesting take on honesty then. I'd imagine an honest person wouldn't put his name on a sham learning institution, or call Forbes pretending to be someone else and providing false information to bolster his supposed wealth. Those aren't things I attribute to an honest person, but your miles may vary. I think you may be confusing lack of tact and forethought with honesty.
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Red:
ROTFL!
 
Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

ElChupacabra said:
You have a very interesting take on honesty then. I'd imagine an honest person wouldn't put his name on a sham learning institution, or call Forbes pretending to be someone else and providing false information to bolster his supposed wealth. Those aren't things I attribute to an honest person, but your miles may vary. I think you may be confusing lack of tact and forethought with honesty.
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Thank you for your honesty...... I always feel like I come out ahead when I know where other people actually are....I want people to speak freely.
 
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