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All-party panel set out stances in Channel 4's Brexit debate - as it happened

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Caroline Lucas, James Cleverly, Barry Gardiner and Jacob Rees-Mogg to argue their case over what should happen

 Updated 
(now), (earlier)
Sun 9 Dec 2018 15.29 ESTFirst published on Sun 9 Dec 2018 06.04 EST
Tory MP James Cleverly, Labour MP Barry Gardiner, host Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg and Green MP Caroline Lucas prepare to take part in the Channel 4 Brexit debate in London.
Tory MP James Cleverly, Labour MP Barry Gardiner, host Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg and Green MP Caroline Lucas prepare to take part in the Channel 4 Brexit debate in London. Photograph: Victoria Jones/PA
Tory MP James Cleverly, Labour MP Barry Gardiner, host Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg and Green MP Caroline Lucas prepare to take part in the Channel 4 Brexit debate in London. Photograph: Victoria Jones/PA

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Key events

James Cleverly is back on social media already, reiterating the divisions among opponents to the deal – a strategy that Downing Street have been seen to increasingly pursue.

On tonight’s @Channel4News Brexit debate we saw three people who want completely different things but all think they can win by voting down the deal. They can’t all be right.

Let’s take the deal and get out of the EU on the 29th March next year. #C4Brexit

— James Cleverly (@JamesCleverly) December 9, 2018

However, he stopped short of claiming victory. The hastiness of the debate allowed for few direct political points to be scored, with Cleverly, Gardiner, Lucas, and Rees-Mogg largely speaking rhetorically rather than addressing each other’s points (although at one stage the debate was temporarily reduced to a head-to-head between Lucas and Rees-Mogg).

Nonetheless, tonight’s format gave the panel scant time to articulate a comprehensive alternative to Theresa May’s proposed deal. However, Channel 4 was congratulated for providing “much needed reflection of the main strands of parliamentary problem ahead”.

Congrats @krishgm for #C4Brexit - much needed reflection of the main strands of the Parliamentary problem ahead of us, and the difficulty there will be finding a Commons majority for anything... #makedebateshappen https://t.co/iJbs6PnBAK

— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) December 9, 2018

My overriding thought right now is reminiscent of many following the general election debate in 2017, in which Theresa May abstained. It feels that somehow - yet again - our leaders are not subjecting themselves to adequate scrutiny.

So my thoughts : we need more proper scrutiny of frontline politicians for the public. The era of hiding from interviews and debates HAS to end. It is the only way for politicians to regain trust and respect. I’ve long supported the idea of a debates commission. #C4Brexit

— Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm) December 9, 2018
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Here are more highlights from the hour long event:

.@BarryGardiner tells @JamesCleverly that the Conservatives have "flunked" Brexit. #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/XEqd8kTA4O

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018

.@CarolineLucas thinks Labour are living in a fantasy land when it comes to Brexit #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/QziAGbiS8o

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018

.@JamesCleverly tells @CarolineLucas that she voted for a referendum and that a second vote is a betrayal of trust. #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/xJf5U1g6HP

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018

Labour has posted a video of Barry Gardiner’s opening statement:

Theresa May has to explain why, after two years, she has brought back a deal that even her closest allies think would damage the UK.

Only Labour can heal our divided country. @BarryGardiner #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/cia9DRK59u

— The Labour Party (@UKLabour) December 9, 2018

As have the Tories for their man:

🔵 This is why you should #BackTheBrexitDeal 👇#C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/gLzvitpFw4

— Conservatives (@Conservatives) December 9, 2018

Caroline Lucas’s is here:

"Let's just be sure" says @CarolineLucas calling a @peoplesvote_uk the first chance to vote on the facts #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/yGFX40vUYP

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018

And, Rees-Mogg:

People voted for Brexit and it should be delivered. @Jacob_Rees_Mogg questions whether "politicians will do what they promised" in his opening speech. #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/BrK6vWChe8

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018

Here are the closing statements:

Here are all the closing statements from our guests tonight @JamesCleverly, @BarryGardiner, @Jacob_Rees_Mogg, and @CarolineLucas. Who do you agree with? #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/CMUcZwlqgw

— Channel 4 (@Channel4) December 9, 2018
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Theresa May’s deal would rip the country in half, Gardiner says, suggesting that it would satisfy nobody. “Labour’s deal secures your job and your future.”

Cleverly criticises the positions of the other three panellists on by one and says “Lets just take the deal and get out,” as the debate ends.

Guru-Murthy thanks the four debaters for attending, lamenting that May and Corbyn were absent.

I’ll post more comprehensive quotes from the debate shortly.

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“The only honourable thing to do [if the government loses Tuesday’s vote] would be to hold a general election and step aside,” says Gardiner.

Theresa May will have ceased to function as a prime minister in such a case, the Labour shadow minister claims.

Rees-Mogg reiterates that the Tories and Labour both said they would implement the result of the referendum in their 2017 manifestos. He has continually criticised the people’s vote campaign, directing his ire towards Lucas.

Conservative MP James Cleverly (left) and Labour MP Barry Gardiner Photograph: Victoria Jones/PA

“This is all about trust,” he says. “Across Europe politicians are distrusted - there are riots in France and troubles in Italy.

“Everybody agreed to accept the result of the referendum. Now Theresa May has said one thing and come back with a deal that does another.”

Guru-Murthy then speaks to an audience member who is in favour of a WTO set of rules, under a no deal. Another says such a course would be an “absolute tragedy”, Theresa May’s deal would be better.

A final audience member says we need a people’s vote, and the debate comes to an end!

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Gardiner says that we need another general election, but Lucas says that Labour’s position would not be all that dissimilar to the Conservatives’.

A people’s vote would be the best way to tackle the grotesque inequalities in the UK, Lucas says.

Rees-Mogg asks whether she would then want a third or fourth referendum, presumably if the result did not go in the direction she preferred.

Lucas then highlights historic hypocrisy on Rees-Mogg’s part. This is turning into a bit of an argument between the two.

Jacob Rees-Mogg denies previously arguing for a second Brexit referendum. Here he is doing just that, in 2011. #c4Brexit pic.twitter.com/rWNEym2kuW

— Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) December 9, 2018
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The younger generation will be more betrayed than anyone else, says Lucas in response

“One thing that is already clear by tonight is that this decision cannot be left to the politicians. We simply can’t agree.

“This not a parlour game or debating society. These are real people with real lives”

"Brexit is a project for the right, by the right and why Labour would support it I just don't understand" #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/d9hOwpvv4f

— Green Party (@TheGreenParty) December 9, 2018

That’s why the people need to have their say, she says. “A people’s vote would be your first chance to vote upon the facts.

“Don’t leave it to the Westminster elite to decide for you,” she says to whoops and cheers.

"One thing is already really clear from tonight – this decision can’t be left to politicians. I’m sure many are screaming at the TV in despair,
That’s why I want you to have your say". @CarolineLucas rallying call for a #PeoplesVote #C4Brexit pic.twitter.com/wC5iGBCFt3

— Green Party (@TheGreenParty) December 9, 2018

Earlier she suggested that people campaigning for a no-deal are only doing so because they would be insulated from the ramifications of that course of action.

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