News

• At an investor conference in Walt Disney World this week, Bob Iger announced that Disney would spend $60B on parks, resorts, and experiences over the next decade (so, theme parks and cruise ships).

• Similar to Bob Iger saying Disney would spend $17B in Florida over the next 10 years
• Contex, based on last decade of Disney annual reports:

• NOT ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION, Disney spent around $3.2B/year on DPEP
• Adjusted for inflation, it’s $4B
• Likewise, assuming 4% annual inflation, $60B today is worth about $50B over 10 years
• So this announcement is probably a 25% increase in DPEP spend.

• It’s still 20% if you assume 5% annual inflation

• You can fiddle with the numbers, but it’s a clear increase in park spend
• Disney’s finally feeding its cash cow

• At the same conference, Josh D’Amaro dropped Wakanda in with Coco, Zootopia, and Encanto as IP Disney’s considering for park expansion.
  

• Our friend Alex Cenac wrote in with an observation that Disney has started to list “Market Price” as the cost of vegetarian and vegan dishes at some sit-down restaurants.  Here’s the 50’s Prime Time Cafe lunch menu:
  

• Jim, the good news here is that since you have to be up at 7 a.m. to make Genie+ and Individual Lightning Lane reservations, you can catch the morning farm report at the same time, so you’ll know what you can afford to eat in the parks.
  
• If you told me 10 years ago that planning a trip to Disney would involve checking the spot market at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, I wouldn’t have believed you. But here we are.
  

• I don’t know if we’ve assigned dates to it, but Universal says:

• Halloween Horror Experience opens in 2025 in Las Vegas
• Texas theme park for kids in 2026
  

• Speaking of Universal, Screamscape rumor that Universal is interested in adapting its Universal Cool Japan event for the US:

• Sort of like HHN, but in late Spring, and with pop culture icons from Universal IP
• Walk-through houses (like HHN), but possibly with other IP or classic, now-departed UOR attractions
• Live entertainment (new and past attractions, like Ghostbusters)
  

• Last Universal thing: If you’re headed to Orlando and going to play Minion’s Blast, you can use the UOR app to tell the ride who you are, and there’s a leaderboard at the end of the ride showing scores by name.  And if you wanted to make your name ‘Bacini’, which is the name of Derek Burgan’s dog, and that dog is currently the 10th-highest scoring player in Minion’s Blast, that would be great.
  
• Len’s Cavalcade Story:
  As he was walking through the Magic Kingdom tonight, Len noticed a Character Cavalcade (i.e., one of those single-float-loaded-up-with-characters things that used to roll through the Park in 2021 & 2022. Back when the Florida Parks were still dealing with COVID-related capacity concerns & on-going operational issues) rolling down Main Street, U.S.A.
  

• Len then turn to an area manager and said "Oh, you guys still have those?"
• The area manager then explained why the Magic Kingdom still runs Character Cavalcades. It seems that enough Guests will then follow them as they pass through the Park and then -- when that single-float-loaded-up-with-characters thing rolls backstage -- these same people will then duck into a store like the Emporium & shop / purchase enough items that these Character Cavalcades basically pay for themselves.
• This is a great little insight into how the Magic Kingdom actually operates in 2023. More to the point, it demonstrates how Disney Park managers take advantage of the Guests' natural behavior (i.e., following a parade float / the very last unit of a parade as it moves through the Magic Kingdom).
  

Surveys

Jim, you know that we occasionally talk about Disney sending out invitations for one-on-one surveys.  And we finally got a glimpse into one of those, for the Galactic Starcruiser, from a listener who will remain nameless.

Consider your personal story onboard the Halcyon - when you met memorable characters, unexpected surprises, emotional moments, conversations, interactions with your travel party or crew, where you spent time onboard the ship, missions you participated in, events, and more.  

Then mark points on the timeline below with a few words that describe the most meaningful, memorable moments that shaped your personal story.

What were the 1 or 2 characters most impactful to your story?

What characters did you interact with the least?

Some notes:

It looks like they are doing something like "critical incident technique”.  The point of that approach is to try to find the best and most impactful parts of the experience so you can keep them but also the weakest so you can ditch those.  

If I didn't know anything about it, I would think they are just looking to retool for a bit as the questions seem particular to this story and characters.

*I* got a Disney survey from my visits this past weekend:

Context for some of these questions: I visited multiple parks per day, every day, for a few days in a row.  

I suspect this is either a “preference” question for pricing, or something related to park-hopping without reservations.

Next:

Note: Nothing about Universal Orlando there.

Next:

Those middle two choices sound like marketing slogans.  Just saying.

Listener Questions

Our friend Shannon Ford writes in with more tips for Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween Party:

• The “spooky music” overlay for Space Mountain starts around 6:30 p.m., not 6 p.m., if you’re trying to time your visit.
• The allergy-friendly treat options are being handed out one-by-one, unlike the candy that’s shoveled into your bag. But you can go around multiple times.
• Staying late has its advantages:

• Because we did the characters during the first parade, we got out to Main Street at 10:11pm. We walked up to the Hub to get as close as we could to the castle. As we were walking in front of Crystal Palace, a cast member dropped the rope (literally 10:14pm) and ushered us into an area that had blocked off and we had a pretty great view of the fireworks. This one time, it really paid to be late.

• We also saw Ariel and Prince Eric with no one in line to see them. Rider wasn’t interested, so no picture for us. This was about 10:45pm.

• Best time to see the stage show is at midnight. Less crowds and party is over so you aren’t missing out on anything else.

Avery writes in to say:

A quick piece of feedback on the listener suggestion last week for a Rocketeer coaster that goes over Autopia. The biggest problem is the additional cost of equipping every seat with a rebreather to filter out the smog from the cars that the roller coaster train will sail through. Otherwise, great idea!

Len says: I replied to Avery with “In Florida, the official scientific name for engine exhaust is ‘the scent of Freedom’”, no word on if California has other ideas.

Levee writes in with a comment about Disneyland’s timing for the closure of the Haunted Mansion in 2024:

Do you think the DL Haunted additional dates in January may be due to the additional crowd level for marathon ? Just a thought.

Len says: Yeah, the DL half-marathon weekend is Jan 11-14, so it might stay open for that and then close later in the month.

And Andy wrote in with this:

On this weeks show you gave a shout out to “Plaid Sabbath“. If that is not a metal cover band made up of VIP tour guides, I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.

Research/Patents (use query "disney enterprises".as AND "theme park".ab)

APA convention feature story

INTRO: Len, you’ve gone to your share of Disney media events and – in the process – seen a number of impressive fireworks displays. As I recall, you saw an especially spectacular show when “Mission: SPACE” opened at EPCOT back in August of 2003 (Twenty years ago last month).

You’ve also seen those special seasonal fireworks displays that Disney stages at its Florida Parks around the holidays. Big-big shows which end with special add-ons like those perimeter fireworks that they do at WDW’s Magic Kingdom for their Fourth of July show or on New Year’s Eve.

As for the very biggest fireworks display ever to be staged at Walt Disney World … That would probably have to be the Fourth of July show that was staged at the Magic Kingdom over the Summer of the bicentennial (1976).

Because it was anticipated that so many people would want to be inside the Park to see what was sure to be an absolutely mind-blowing fireworks display, Disney World did a very smart thing. Months ahead of time, they let the world that that year’s Fourth of July fireworks display at the Magic Kingdom would be presented on four nights:

• July 2, 3, 4 & 5, 1976

It would be the exact same show on all four nights. So there was no reason at all for everyone to try & crowd into the WDW Resort on July 4th.

FYI: That date was a Sunday, by the way. Despite Disney’s best efforts, people began crowding into the Magic Kingdom starting at 8 a.m. It was at capacity by noon. Luckily, anticipating that there’d be people outside of the Park who still wanted to see Walt Disney World’s Fourth of July fireworks display, the Resort’s Entertainment – led by Bob Jani – deliberately designed this show so that a big component of Disney World’s Fourth-of-July fireworks display for the American bicentennial actually happened out on Seven Seas Lagoon.

So picture this: Back in the 1970s, the “Fantasy in the Sky” fireworks display that was presented nightly over the Magic Kingdom was just nine minutes long and – over the course of that show – fired 200 shells into the air.

Okay. So Disney World’s bicentennial special – the one that got presented at the Magic Kingdom over those four nights in early July of 1976 – that pyrotechnic display was 30 minutes-long. And on every night that this show was presented, over the course of each of those shows, 2000 shells were fired into the air.

And for the grand finale of Disney World’s bicentennial fireworks display, 116 shells were fired into the air over the Magic Kingdom all at once.

Okay. Just a minute ago, we were talking about the directly-adjacent-to-the-Magic-Kingdom bicentennial show. The fireworks display that was happening out over Seven Seas Lagoon. That featured the “Electrical Water Pageant” barges anchored out in the middle of that waterway all lit up with fireworks then shooting up into the sky off of those barges. Not only that, but also out on Seven Seas Lagoon, there were 12 power boats zooming across the water. Each of them towing a flier on a kite, and each of these kites was illuminated with lit roman candles. And did I mention the 55 foot-tall hot air balloons that were tethered about Seven Seas Lagoon.

This was – hands down -- the biggest fireworks display ever to be staged at Walt Disney World. But not the most spectacular to ever be staged on property.

That two-night event was staged 25 years ago right across from the entrance of Disney’s Contemporary Hotel on a chunk of open lawn along the Eastern shore of Seven Seas Lagoon. Here, a sea of white folding chairs was set up in front of a temporary stage. Which is where – starting on September 24, 1998 – “Disney Rock’n Rockets” was presented.

So why haven’t you heard that name before? “Disney Rock’n Rockets” ? That’s because this show was put together just for the American Pyrotechnics Association. Which had decided to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this organization by holding its annual convention at Walt Disney World.

The APA actually got started back in 1948 (In fact, they’ll be celebrating the 75th anniversary of this organization later this week. On September 29th, to be exact) when seven US-based companies that manufactured fireworks decided to band together and form a group that could then … Share info when it comes to proper pyrotechnics safety, help with the writing of regulations. You get the idea.

Anyway … Why did the APA decide to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this organization on Disney property? Because the Walt Disney Company is the largest private consumer of fireworks in the world. And since they use pyrotechnics on all of their properties around the globe, Disney has the most knowledgeable, most experienced fireworks team in the world. And the heads of the APA were interested – anxious, even – to tap into that expertise.

Interesting side note: Disney’s hiring practices – at least when it comes to its pyrotechnics team – are kind of unique. Here’s what Carol Bricket, longtime fireworks manager at the WDW Resort, had to say as part of a 2018 interview:

“We preferred people to come in with no fireworks or pyrotechnics experience because we didn’t want to have to change their bad habits,” explained Brickett. “We taught them our way. We wanted people who weren’t afraid of it.”

Back to APA’s 50th anniversary convention on WDW property now … During the day, event attendees sat in on panels which discussing new launch techniques (I’m told that – as part of this event – Disney demoed something that they were then considering installing at all of their theme parks worldwide. Which was an air-based launch system for fireworks shells. Which would reduce the noise & air pollution levels normally associated with fireworks shows. Mind you, this innovative air launch system wouldn’t actually come online at the Disney Parks ‘til nearly six years later in 2004. But APA convention attendees were reportedly wowed by what they saw. This glimpse of the future).

Event attendees also got to tour behind-the-scenes at the Parks to see how Disney put together its pyrotechnic displays. One lucky group of APA members got up at the butt-crack of dawn to then hop on a bus. Which then rolled around to the backside of World Showcase at EPCOT. These folks then got to follow along as four off-duty firefighters (This used to be how Reedy Creek employees used to rack up overtime hours) drove around and then carefully hand-loaded 1,105 shells into 750 tubes (which were then placed in 34 different locations around World Showcase Lagoon).

As you might expect, if you’re someone who belongs to the APA and then gets the chance at this sort of backstage access to Walt Disney World to then see how the world’s biggest user of pyrotechnics preps its nightly fireworks displays … You want to find an awesome way to say “Thank You” for that sort of access.

FYI: Remember, this was September of 1998. Three years later, the world changed. And those APA came back to WDW in 2008 for their 60th anniversary convention, they never again got this sort of backstage access.

Okay. So how do you thank your host for a treat like that? You first invite every Disney World employee who works in Pyro to bring their family to attend “Disney Rock’n Rockets.” (This is one of the main reasons that this event is staged over two nights. To make sure that there are enough seats for events attendees as well as these Disney World employees).

Everyone first has drinks & hors d'oeuvres in the lobby of the Contemporary Hotel. Then they walk across the street to that chunk of lawn along the Easternmost shore of Seven Seas Lagoon. And – after everyone takes their seats on those folding chairs – who comes out onstage but Kenny Loggins. THE Kenny Loggins.

So Mr. Loggins does a few numbers to warm up the crowd. And then – as he launches into his 1986 hit, (Highway to the) “Danger Zone” (which was from the soundtrack of the original “Top Gun, by the way), fireworks begin to explode in the sky over Seven Seas Lagoon.

But not just any fireworks. The standard stuff that you see whenever you visit a Disney theme park. For you have to remember that the APA convention is also sort of a trade show. And it’s not just the people who work with pyro who are here at this event. It’s also fireworks manufacturers from around the globe who are here to show off in front of their competitors.

And these fireworks manufacturers from around the globe actually fought for the right to have their company’s shells prominently featured in “Disney Rock’n Rockets.” Which is why the skies over Seven Seas Lagoon were filled with one-of-a-kind fireworks. Weirdly named but beautiful looking things like rainbow fan candles, whistling silver dragons, crackling flashes, and glitter mines.

Conkling: When the American Pyrotechnics Association had its 50th anniversary in 1998 at Disney World in Florida, the "best of the best" in the industry put on a salute that was fired from multiple sites. It was absolutely spectacular. I give that the highest rating of any show I've ever seen.

Dr. John Conkling – who was an adjunct professor of chemistry at Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland before he became executive director of the American Pyrotechnics Association (This guy had eight patents when it came to fireworks. So Conkling knew his stuff) – he was there, out on the lawn across from the Contemporary as the sky over Seven Seas Lagoon filled with all these strange & spectacular shells. And when asked about “Disney Rock’n Rockets,” this guy – who’d seen hundreds (if not thousands) of fireworks displays over the course of his career – said:

That show was the best of the best. It was absolutely spectacular. I give ‘Disney Rock’n Rockets’ the highest rating of any fireworks show I've ever seen.

Now the big question is … If you got to borrow Doc Brown’s Delorean (Which – by the way – is now an option you can explore, Mr. Testa. “Back to the Future – The Musical” opened at the Winter Garden Theater in New York City back on August 3th of this year. That show’s dark on Mondays, Len. You could slip into that theater the day this podcast goes live) ..

Anyway, if you could go back in time to September of 1998 and then catch “Disney Rock’n Rockets” live and in person, which presentation would you like to have gone to?

• The one where Kenny Loggins performed live onstage?
• OR the one where the B52s AND 10,000 Maniacs performed?

Remember, it would have been different shells on different night. Totally different, one-of-a-kind fireworks exploding out over Seven Seas Lagoon. So which show would you have preferred to attend?

Throwing that out there to you as well as all of our Disney Dish listeners. Me personally, I’m more of a B52s guy. Still sad that they did their farewell tour last year.

One final note: And this will be of interest to Disney Dish listeners who live in and around Tucson, Arizona … If you want to see a similar sort of fireworks displays, the American Pyrotechnics Association is holding a convention in honor of that organization’s 75th anniversary next month, (October 3rd – the 6th, to be exact) at the Westin La Paloma Resort.

And if the previous pattern holds for this event, some pretty spectacular shells should fill the sky around that Resort the last night or so of the APA convention. So – if you live in or around Tucson – maybe swing by Westin La Paloma and slip the front desk a $20 to find out when that firework display is supposed to begin.

Because that’s the intriguing part … This fireworks display – just like “Disney Rock’n Rockets” back in September of 1998 – is supposed to be a private event only for people who are attending the APA convention. So they’re NOT going to be talking up this particular fireworks display to members of the general public in advance.

This same thing happened at Walt Disney World back in September of 1998. People were walking back to the Contemporary, after having just seen “Fantasy in the Sky” at the Magic Kingdom. Only to then have this second, more spectacular, over-the-top fireworks show begin at the Easternmost edge of Seven Seas Lagoon. And these Guests were like “What the hell is that? Was that on the Entertainment schedule?”