Honest Pint Act Rises From the Dead

I don't have the time to do this justice--reporting on it by calling sponsors, etc--but I got a tip that the Honest Pint Act is back on the docket at the Oregon legislature. You will recall that back during my tenure as half-assed champion of honest pints in 2009, the Oregon legislature actually took up a bill to make it law. (Yes, I know you don't recall; humor me.)  I testified in Salem, it made it out of committee on a (barely) bipartisan vote, and ... died on the floor.  That bill, almost verbatim, is back:

House Bill 3413 

Sponsored by Representative HELM; Representatives BARNHART, WITT

Allows holder of full on-premises sales license or limited on-premises sales license to obtain verification of capacity of pint glasses used at licensed premises for draft malt beverages. Allows holder to obtain display sticker from Oregon Liquor Control Commission if glasses at premises hold pint of malt beverage under standard conditions.

Briefly, what it does is this: a restaurant or pub can request someone from the state come and do a random sampling of their glassware. If they hold at least 16 ounces "when dispensed under standard conditions established by the director" (I think that language is to allow for headspace), they get a decal certifying that they're purveyors of an honest pint.  (Seriously, "honest pint" is in the language of the bill.)  There's a fee to apply for certification, and although it is not explicit, that is probably the way the law pays for itself. It expires after two years, and then you have to re-up. The one change I see is in section 2, which previously assigned oversight to the Department of Human Services.

In the current version, it falls to the Oregon Health Authority. I have no great confidence that the bill has any shot of becoming a law, but it's cool to dream.  Pay for an honest pint, receive an honest pint.  Seems like a damn fine idea to me.


Oh, this is a cool blast from the past (can't believe it's still cached somewhere):

Maine Flirts with an Honest Pint

Yesterday, a ripple went through social media about a proposed bill in Maine that would make "cheater pints" illegal.  This is an issue dear to my heart, and one with which I have some history.  Years ago, I attempted (in my usual, half-assed bloggy way) to be an advocate for "Honest pints."  When you go to a gas station, you don't worry about getting 120 ounce gallons; a quart of milk may not be 29.2 ounces.  So why on earth should we allow a pint of beer to be 12-15 ounces, as it regularly is in pubs and restaurants around the country? 

That said, I'm not entirely sure Maine's strategy will be effective.  As that Guardian article describes (with, full disclosure, lots of quotes from me), this has already been a two-time loser.  It generally comes down to cost and enforcement.  Most everyone agrees that the idea is good (those willfully cheating customers excepted), but putting a regulatory and enforcement structure in place causes people to balk.  A point foes rush to make:

It was a point echoed by Sean Sullivan of the Maine Brewers' Guild. "We believe that crafting a beer-specific bill, targeting something that is already illegal, and shifting enforcement responsibilities to our already-overburdened liquor enforcement officials, would not be useful," Sullivan said.

I'm not actually convinced this is a legitimate argument (foes are never disinterested bystanders), but it does appear to be an effective one. Somehow the burden does not overwhelm the governments in Germany, the Czech Republic, and the UK.  The bill is completely vestigial now, and with public policy, the devil is always in the small print.  If they do pull it off, it could be a beachhead for future legislation.  Godspeed, Mainers, may you go where no Americans have gone before!

Fraud and Growth in the News

Two news items of note this week, in case you missed them.  The first would have been a signature case-in-point for my old campaign, the Honest Pint Project (RIP), and although that effort is over, the message remains relevant.  Behold:

For years, thousands of hockey fans and other arena-goers in Idaho have paid $4 for a "small" beer, served in a squatty plastic cup, and $7 for a "large" beer, served in a taller cup. According to a lawsuit filed this week against CenturyLink Arena in Boise, the cups hold the same amount of beer, despite their apparent differences.

The fraudulent glasses.  Source: Yahoo.

The part of this story I love the most is the exquisite response by the stadium's management. It should be studied by students of public relations as a classic in the "how to mess up a response to scandal" genre.

It was recently brought to our attention that the amount of beer that fits in our large (20-oz) cups also fits in our regular (16-oz) cups. The differentiation in the size of the two cups is too small.

When evidence of you blatant fraud goes public, you probably shouldn't compound the trouble with blatant lies.  The problem, as everyone who was defrauded knows, was not that the "differentiation" between the two cups.  It's that management used differently-shaped, same-sized cups to defraud their customers.  Good thing someone "brought it to their attention."  We are way too litigious generally, and this isn't a war crime, but CenturyLink Arena deserves to lose its shirt over this one.

In our second story, from the Denver Post, we have the following story:

When the guiding lights of American craft brewing met last weekend at the St. Julien Hotel in Boulder to sharpen their vision and undoubtedly drink a lot of good beer, the suggestion was raised that craft brewers should try to claim 20 percent of the U.S. beer market by 2020.  By the end of the meeting, the Brewers Association board had revised the organization’s mission to reflect that goal.

The article goes on to discuss how realistic the goal is, quoting various luminaries including our own Beeronomist.  Count me among the believers.  From 2005 through 2012 (the last years for which we have numbers), craft brewing has never grown less than 5.8% a year, and that was during the depths of the recession--and five of the last eight years have been in double digits.  The Brewers Association member breweries are currently picking up about a percentage point a year, a figure that will grow as the base grows.  Add into that the loathed "crafty" beers and the craft beers BA doesn't track (CBA, Goose Island), and I think it's easy enough to see how you make the goal. 

Michigan May Make Honest Pints the Law

Because I (and my indispensable friend, Shawn) have passed the Honest Pint Project on to other champions (where it appears to have passed away), I have mostly stayed away from issues related to transparency in glass sizing.  But then Time Magazine goes and writes this:

Two Michigan representatives are raising their glasses to a bill that would make it an “offense” to serve or advertise a pint that contains fewer than 16 ounces of beer... 

The Michigan proposal is just the latest in the movement for state-regulated pint standards, nicknamed “honest pints.” For context, the approximately 20-ounce “Imperial Pint” is the government-regulated standard in the U.K., and those glasses have been specially marked, the Wall Street Journal reported. Stateside, Oregon beer blogger Jeff Alworth has been one of the major advocates, co-founding the “Honest Pint Project” in 2007, where he has catalogued pubs nationwide that serve fuller pints on his website and has lobbied the Oregon state legislature to pass 16-ounce standards — though the bill did fail to pass in the state senate.

(Let me note that I didn't actually lobby the Oregon legislature--my Rep, Jules Bailey, took that up on his own.)

We shouldn't get too excited--this isn't the first time Michigan has made a run at this law.  They tried in 2011 but it was referred to committee where it apparently died. I have no idea whether it has a chance this year, either.  (I may be running this same post every two years for the foreseeable future.  Which I'm happy to do.)  But it has been getting a ton of attention, and that bodes well.  As you may recall, there's really no good reason to oppose such a statute.  On NPR this morning,

Renee Montagne: Which has left opponents crying in their beers.  Come on, they say, "pint" is used generically and business owners complain they'll have to replace glassware that doesn't measure up.

Steve Inskeep: Although there is another option: stop using the word "pint." 

This gives me hope that the tide has finally turned on the notion of honest pints.  When I first began the project back in 2007, people were weirdly combative about publicans' rights to deceive their customers.  As the NPR example above illustrates, there's no hardship except to publicans hoodwinking their customers--they don't want to use "glass" of beer because it is so, well, transparent about the volume.  

I wish the good legislators from Michigan good luck and godspeed.  They are setting an example for the country to follow.

Update.  On Facebook, my link to this post received the equivalent of Marge Simpson's unhappy noise by William Abernathy.  He has a right to make it.  I've written so much about the honest pint stuff that I didn't do a deep dive, but the short version is this: William was my predecessor writing about beer at Willamette Week, and he was the one to both identify cheater pints, name them cheater pints, and call out cheater pubs.  Everything honest pint flows from his original reporting.

Michigan and Honest Pints

A comment that got caught in my spam net posted a link to this cool bit of news from the Michigan legislature:

House Bill 5034 (2011)

Liquor; retail sales; selling glass of beer as a pint if it contains less than 16 ounces of beer; prohibit. Amends 1998 PA 58 (MCL 436.1101 - 436.2303) by adding sec. 1006.

Well done!

The Honest Pint Project Rides Again; Long Live the HPP!

If you visit the Honest Pint Project website today, you will not find a dead URL. I am pleased to say that after my post last week, three people came forward who wanted to jump in and save it from certain death. (I'm not sure if they want to go public yet, so I'll leave names out for now.) We've been scrambling to make the transfer, and it looks like everything's running smoothly.

This is uniformly good news. The three have a more sophisticated sense of social media, website development, and nonprofit organization than I do--by a long shot. There's one Oregonian there, but a couple from further afield--giving it a more national presence. So not only will the project be carried forward, I expect to see a quantum leap in terms of organization and activity. Any time a group of volunteers agrees to do a bunch of work, they deserve at least the control over the work they've taken responsibility for. I've let them know that I've always only been interested in the spirit of the thing--transparency in glassware sizes. So, if they wish to change the criteria, the certification process, or the logo, that will be their call and I'll delightedly support any changes. (And if they leave it exactly the same, I'll support that, too. Except for the logo. Someone should improve on my crude efforts.) The main thing is that they are committed to pushing the thing forward and keeping the idea alive.

Huzzah!

The Honest Pint Project is Dead; Long Live Honest Pints!

Not super long after I started this blog, I stumbled into the thicket of unregulated glassware sizing. Mentioning the crime of the cheater pint, I inadvertently sparked a great outcry. This led to an online petition, some local press, and ultimately, a half-assed advocacy campaign to bring transparency to glassware sizes. Miraculously, the Honest Pint Project led to some amazing things:

• We certified 47 pubs in eight states as Purveyors of Honest Pints.
• The Wall Street Journal did a long, in-depth piece on the Project.
• NPR covered it (twice!).
  
• It got a fair amount of other press.
• The Oregon legislature considered creating a law to enshrine the Honest Pint Project into law (and it made it fairly far along before dying in the Oregon Senate).
• We sold swag.
• We irritated some people.
• I'd like to say we sparked the minor trend of marking the 16 oz line on glasses, but I'm not totally sure we deserve it.
• We inspired women to go on a glass-measuring rampage in Oklahoma City. (This may have brought me the most joy.)
  

Alas, I was always the wrong champion for this endeavor. It needed someone with real moxie and drive. I imagine where we'd be if, say, Angelo, Ezra, or the Beer Wench had stumbled onto it as I did. Cheater pints would be a thing of the past. The project was important enough that it deserved someone like them.

Anyway, the website is about to go dark. The lease on honestpintproject.org runs out on November 1, and my silent--and very important--partner and I have decided to let it go. As bad as I was before about crusading against cheater pints, at least I used to feel guilty about it. Now, as my life has taken a different direction, I don't even have the time to feel guilty. It was a noble project, but died, as they all do, from inattention.

Raise a pint--an honest one, please--to the Project this week. It was good while it lasted.


Update. I just got an email from someone interested in carrying the HPP forward. I'm totally cool with that. Email [the_beerax(at)yahoo(dot)com] if you also wanted to be included. Perhaps more hands means a lighter load.

Status of Honest Pintery Nationwide: Woeful (Plus a Cert)

I take some satisfaction in the knowledge that the Honest Pint Project--and its antecedents--has been successful in penetrating Oregon's consciousness. The intention was always more educational than structural--if people know that a shaker pint delivers 13-14 ounces of beer, finding one in a pub puts them at no disadvantage. So, even where pubs choose shaker pints, it is pretty clear that patrons know what they're getting. But lest you think this is usual, let me offer you this dispatch from Jim LaPlume in Rhode Island--in the heart of very-beery New England:

We communicated via email last year about the Honest Pint Project. We in RI have done two Honest Pint Nights, and have discovered that every bar we visited, except for one, did not serve an honest pint. For the most part, we were not taken too seriously, but we did manage to "convert" one tavern; the owner has joined the cause and is spreading the good word. Not surprisingly, his craft beer sales have increased by 17% since he started serving (and advertising) an Honest Pint. Hopefully, the trend will catch.

Hopefully--though I think it will take a little proactive agitation of exactly the kind the Honest Pint Project was intended to provide. So let the English Cellar Alehouse in Providence serve as our beachhead, for, in addition to serving up 150 different beers, they do so in an honest pint.


English Cellar Alehouse
Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint
165 Angell St.
Providence, RI 02906
(401) 454-3434



That's not the greatest picture, but this one at their Facebook page adds corroborating evidence. I'll be in New England around Thanksgiving, so maybe I'll stop in and have a pint. Any of you who are closer, do the same.

Honest Pint Certifiers in Oklahoma City!

Whoa, this is totally cool. Check out this video from News Channel 4 in Oklahoma City. Two women, Cris Tindell and Cheryl Semon, have taken up the Honest Pint Project with gusto, and they're cruising around town in Honest Pint tee-shirts certifying pubs. The piece even mentions Oregon's effort to establish an Honest Pint Act. Have a look:


I haven't gotten any info from Cris and Cheryl to update the webpage, but I'll see if I can track them down. What a way to start the morning--watching a video of people sporting honest pint tees!

Honest Pints in Burbank

A guy named Tony Yanow is opening a new pub in Burbank that sounds like it was transported directly from Southeast Portland. Great beer, great food, sustainable, and vegan-friendly. (The vegan sausages are even imported from the NW!) The planned opening is April 4.

Tony did the measuring backward, and he will send me one from an obvious place in the pub once the pub is open, so for now the two photos I have are provisional. But he wanted to promote honest pints for his opening, and so we're bending the rules a bit to get him certified before the place opens. If you're down in Southern California, stop in and have a pint. Looks like a cool place.

Tony's Darts Away
Certified Purveyor of and Honest Pint
1710 W. Magnolia Blvd
Burbank, CA 91506
818-253-1710
website

More Honest Pints in Michigan

Well this is MIGHTY cool: a good beer guy in Michigan has taken it upon himself to start certifying places who serve honest pints--thanks, BB! Today's entry is Arbor Brewing from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Aside from the fact that it hails from occupied territory (hometown of the dreaded Michigan Wolverines--arch enemy of my alma mater Wisconsin Badgers, but leave that aside), I know only what the internets tell me. And once again, Yelp and BeerAdvocate tell me that they're great. (Hypothesis: those places that care enough to proudly serve their beers in honest pints tend to be highly correlated with good beer.)

Arbor Brewing Company
Certified Purveyors of an Honest Pint

114 E. Washington St.

Ann Arbor, MI 48104

Midwesterners, go give them your business--
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Honest Pints in Michigan

Liberty Street Brewing
Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint
149 W. Liberty Street
Plymouth, MI 48170

It is a fine day when I wake up to a new certification photo in my inbox. It is even finer when that photo depicts a pub in a heretofore uncertified state. Today is a very fine day.

Liberty Street Brewing was founded just 18 months ago in Plymouth, Michigan, just west of Detroit. In that short time, they've served notice that they want to purvey not only honest pints, but exceptional ones. The raters on Yelp (four and a half stars) and BeerAdvocate (A rating) rave about the place. Here's head brewery and owner Joe Walters talking about his orientation to honest pints:

We are firm believers in a "pint being a pound - the world around", I did not want to serve a 16 ounce pint glass that would only hold a pint if there was surface tension and no head. I have recieved comments from colleagues telling me to reduce my pour, but even when changing glassware this past month, I chose to keep with the Honest Pint pour, using a 20 ounce pub glass. By the way, our half pints are 10 ounces.

That's effectively a verbatim rationale for our criteria for an honest pint. Thanks and congrats, Joe!
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Honest Pint Project Status Update

Let's admit it right at the top: I am a crappy champion. In other hands, the Honest Pint Project would now have far more certified purveyors and perhaps had a greater effect nationally. I have just had enough going on in life that I haven't devoted the time to the project it really warrants.

That said, the HPP is quietly gaining strength and helping change glassware--at least here in Oregon. In the past month, two breweries have taken a major step (Widmer and Full Sail) and introduced new, proprietary honest pints. Even more hearteningly, we're starting to see not only honest pints, but glasses that are marked with a line to show the 16-ounce level. Oregon has always been a leader in things related to craft brewing, and this is evidence of our commitment. Very cool.

Nationally things are a little slower, but still gaining. The Facebook page has 850 fans (join if you haven't!), and we have a few scattered certified pubs outside Oregon. I would love to see more of those, so if you're reading this from outside Oregon, consider certifying your local pub--it would be good for them and great for the project. It's super easy--just follow these instructions.

Finally, the piece I had in Draft Magazine a few months back produced some nice comments from readers. Matthew scanned the letters page, so have a look.



Trying to rectify my lameness somewhat, I hope to institute a new schedule of certifying a new place once a week for the foreseeable future. If you know of places serving honest pints, let me know: the_beerax [at] yahoo [dot] com. Thanks, as always, for your support.

Oh, and don't forget--buy some cool swag and help me defray costs.

Widmer Gasthaus Introduces Honest Pints

I am most pleased to announce the newest addition to our official list of Certified Purveyors of Honest Pints: the Widmer Gasthaus. The brothers have completely changed their glassware and now use an imperial pint with an etched line indicating the 16-ounce level. It's really cool to see breweries using the Honest Pint Project as an opportunity to introduce new proprietary glassware. The Widmer version is the graceful Irish-style glass and of course features their logo. (You can buy the honest pint glass at the pub.)



Widmer Gasthaus
Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint
955 North Russell Street
(503) 281-3333
Website



Most of the folks around Portland are well aware of the Gasthaus, its nice German-inflected menu, and the specialty beers (including Collaborator brews) only available there on-tap. Now there's another reason to give them your business--honest pints.

Bonus pic: Rob Widmer with the measuring cup.


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Pyrotechnics

Over at his new blog, Ezra has posted a two-part interview with Rogue's Brett Joyce (part one, part two). I will let you draw your own conclusions from the exchange. However, I wanted to comment on a bit that draws in this blog and the Honest Pint Project (I'm quoting from Ezra's raw transcript):

SA: ok. Let me go into the Honest Pint project promoted by Beervana (jeff alworth). So awhile back you guys did a video of you pouring an honest pint but it didnt quite meet the qualifications because an honest pint actually has to be 16oz of liquid not including the head (their was no head on the beer in the video), is their any reason you guys opted not to go that route?

Brett: In my experience what are called cheater pints are the pints that look like a pint but have the nub in the bottom so they dont hold 16oz. That was always my interpretation of what a cheater pint was. A pint glass that doesnt hold 16oz, now their is this new alleged definition that you get 16oz of liquid so that means you cant have a normal 16oz pint and have a head on it and I just think, if by somebodys definition their not honest pints then thats fine, you know 95% of the bars in the world use 16oz pints. We have served standard 16oz pints since day 1, um, we have no intention of changing it.

I pretty much agree with Brett on all points here. There are two problems with a 16-ounce shaker pint. The first is that it's nearly impossible for a casual drinker to glance at a shaker pint and tell whether it's 14 or 16 ounces. The second is that a 16-ounce glass does not deliver a 16-ounce pour, which is in keeping with the spirit of calling a particular measure a "pint."

I've don't ding pubs that don't use honest pints--the project has never been about being a beer cop. I wanted to encourage pubs to make the switch to a higher standard. And at least in the Portland area, we're seeing some nice success. Several places have switched over, and it is increasingly common to see not only larger glasses, but glasses etched with a line marking the pint level.

I don't begrudge Rogue anything here, and I hope they don't begrudge the HPP. They're sticking to their guns, and I'm sticking to mine.

(Incidentally, I'm long overdue for another round of certifications and hope to get to that soon. My new employment status should facilitate more comprehensive certification!)

Honest Pints at the Full Sail Tasting Room

It gives me great pleasure to introduce the newest member of the officially-certified Honest Pint club: Full Sail Brewing. When you visit the pub at the brewery in Hood River, you will be served a pint in an elegant glass featuring the gold standard in honest pint transparency, an etched line marking a full pint.


Full Sail Tasting Room & Pub
Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint
506 Columbia Street
Hood River, OR
541-386-2247
website


The Columbia River Gorge is quietly becoming one of the richest troves of good beer in all of Beervana. They take their beer seriously there, and I am delighted that one of the venerable giants of Oregon brewing now serves honest pints. If you haven't made a swing through recently, stop in and have a pint.

(Incidentally, although these glasses aren't yet on the website, you can buy one for $5 when you're at the pub.)

More Honest Pints in Salem

I love waking up to an email with a new Honest Pint certification, but it gives me special pleasure when it appears to have been sent in by a patron. I believe that's the case with the newest Certified Purveyor--which also appears to be a new pub. To Scott, who sent in the photo below--thanks!


f/stop Fitzgerald's Public House
Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint
335 Grove St. NE
Salem, OR, 97301
Facebook Page




You'll notice that the glassware at the f/stop is a cool variant of the dimpled Scottish mug and delivers well over 16 fluid ounces. I don't know so much about this pub, but Scott says they have three taps and that owner Kirk Kindle makes sure there are always locals on tap. As always, stop by and have a pint if you have the chance. And if you've been there, let us know what it's like.

Cheers--


Update: Oh, by the way, the web half of the Honest Pint Project is home tending to a one-week old baby, and so the official list of Certified Purveyors may not get updated for a little while.

Honest Pints in Salem

Venti's Cafe
Purveyor of an Honest Pint
325 Court Street NE
Salem, OR 97301
503-399-8733

The newest certified purveyor of an honest pint is down in Salem: Venti's Cafe. The owner, who sent me this photo, also notes that it's not actually all that easy to get 20 ounce glasses with a "calibrated logo." Well, we appreciate any pub willing to go the extra mile.

Venti's is principally a cafe, but they have eight taps, and appear to be expanding the beer line-up. (They also have an expansive bottle list, too.) The food includes a nice vegetarian selection, something you can't find at a lot of pubs. If you're down in Salem, be sure to stop in and have a pint.

Cheers!

Honest Pints in Houston, Texas

Okay, now we're getting somewhere: the first certified purveyor off the West Coast, and its in an unlikely state: Texas. Even better, the certification photo was sent in by what appears to be just an inspired bystander and beer fan named Hank. Any pub that can inspire customers is a pub I'd like to visit. But enough of the side talk. Drumroll please ... the latest Certified Purveyor of an Honest Pint is:


McGonigel's Mucky Duck
2425 Norfolk
Houston, TX 77098
website




McGonigel's is an Irish-Texas pub that serves good beer and Irish food, but features lots of live, Lone Star music. I couldn't be happier to send out the certification letter and placard to a Houston zip code--and I will, today.

If you're down in Texas, you know where to go--

Honest Pint in Draft Magazine

The September/October issue of Draft Magazine arrived in my mailbox late last week, and I was pleased to find my editorial promoting the Honest Pint Project inside. "A Pint of Honesty" (good title--the editors, not me, came up with it) appears on the last page, in the "Beer Me" column. Although a fair amount of the issue's content is online, my piece is not. You'll have to go find it on the newsstand (Barnes and Noble for sure, maybe also Borders and Powell's).

I sent the piece in because, while regular readers of this blog are familiar with the effort, it still hasn't gotten major attention nationally. I'll excerpt the final paragraph, so you can get some of the gist:

[B]eer drinkers outside Oregon also deserve honest pints. Whenever I travel around, I study the glassware. It’s no different than it was here; drinkers across the country have no way of telling how large their glasses are, and the problem persists because customers haven’t demanded a change. The most important thing you can do is bring the issue to the attention of your local publican. He’s there to make you happy, and if you demand an honest pint, he’ll serve you one. If you know that your local does serve honest pints, go to the project's web site and find out how you can certify it as an Honest Purveyor. The time has come for America to have glassware standards as good as our beer. Go forth, beer drinkers, and demand an honest pint!

Draft Magazine
Incidentally, Draft Magazine may now be the most interesting beer mag on the market. If you haven't checked it out, you might pick up a copy. This issue has a great story on hop farming in Michigan, a piece on Okinawan sake (nearly lost after WWII, but making a comeback), and a nice piece on innovations in brewing (which really just charts the current state of American brewing). I also appreciate their beer ratings, which do more to place their well-selected beers in context and provide the reader more clarity about what the beer will taste like and why it gets the rating it does.


More Honest Pint News
Speaking of Honest Pints, I got this email from Jim LaPlume:

I am an avid home brewer, craft beer afficionado, and President and Founder of the Northern Rhode Island Home Brewers Guild, and I have never taken the time to ensure I was recieving a proper pint.

So with that being said, I am mobilizing the NRIHBG Army, and the month of November we will be calling the Publicans and Pint Pourers of Rhode Island to task. We are going to be assaulting the local beer bars, sports bars, reasturants and taverns armed with measuring glasses and camera's.

I will notify you when our campaign begins and you will recieve regular updates.

We Shall Overcome, Amen, Halleluah, Pour Another Pint.

Kind of makes you patriotically misty when a New Englander gets his dander up, doesn't it? I look foward to posting the results of Jim's assault next month.