Waiting

My story can be found here:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/browse_frm/thread/42f3062d1a16d325?tvc=1

I suffer from chest pain and tachycardia, and I feel strongly, that my
symptoms are of cardiac origin. My current local cardiologist thinks my
situation is completely anxiety related, whereas general medicine
doctors think I may have chest wall pain, GI pain ect... In addition,
there is controversy over if my EKG is normal or not. Many
cardiologists I've seen say it's a normal variant, while some
others have said it's abnormal. At any rate, I'm working on losing
weight, and following a new two pound diet with hope I can heal myself
of these problems (along with the help of my family medicine doctor of
course).

Dr. Chung, whom is well known on the S.M.C for is expertise in the area
of cardiology, also thinks I may have variant angina. Right now, I am
waiting for another attack of pain so that I can call 911, and get this
better documented.

In the mean time, are there any suggestions on what I can do to take my
mind off this? Losing weight and eating better are a great start, but
I'm emotionally still scared from this whole experience. What have
others done in my situation to get through the horrid symptoms and
pain? Waiting seems awful...

Thank you for all the support and kindness. I wish everyone well, and
enjoy 2006!

Q-Wave

And apparently in several other posts with different headings. Same
post; different headings. Now what could that indicate? All having
positive comment for Chung in virtually the same words. Almost like a macro.

And other posts offering comment like, "Dr. Chung whom I've been told is
one of the best), feels I may have variant angina" and "...thank Dr.
Chung for is [sic] advice and wisdom in the area of cardiology." Q has
been told that Chung is one of the best? Really? By whom? Is Q in the
Atlanta area? And reading what Chung says here hasn't raised any
questions? Give me a break.

The URL's posted for "My story can be found here:" lead one to what
reads like a particularly detailed offering of medical advice in a
particularly detailed discussion unlikely from a 19-year-old. And all
happening *without examination* - online. Much too technical a
discussion for a teen-aged layman.

Hey Q. Go see a doctor who is in the same room with you. This online
business is foolish if you think there's something wrong with your body.
I frankly find it next to impossible to believe that you've been to the
ER 120 times in the past 3 years. Who's paying for it? And your other
hospital and medical visits you've mentioned or implied? No insurance
company will go for that. Looks like - at least - a couple hundred
thousand dollars spent here. "Many cardiologists I've seen..." I love
this one, "... following a new two pound diet with hope I can heal

doctor of course)." Who says "family medicine doctor? "...a new two
pound diet..." Puhleeze.

Looks like another Chung sockpuppet. Or an uncritical child with
wonderfully detailed medical knowledge who needs to talk to an adult
with psychiatric training. It's hard to imagine a 19-year-old writing
the stuff and style below, particularly given the rather pedestrian
writing. Don't buy it.

Pastorio

Would be interested to know if Bob does. It would be a monumental step
toward his overcoming the fear he has of the truth.

Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006) from 6 to 7
pm EST:

http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk

What is this "glow" thing you always mention?

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."

Did you mean for your feelings about Andrew to result in someone, who
may be a little naive of the Internet, to publish their telephone
number?

In Christ's love
Carol T

Hey moron Carol. What others do it what they do. I can't affect or
control that. Stuff the guilt trip you're trying to lay on me straight
up your butt. You're no better at reasoning than quack Andrew is.

I wrote rather clearly what my feelings were and why I believe as I do,
pity your reading comprehension is as bad as you've so often demonstrated.

And, by the way, it's a welcome relief to see you not post your normal
opaque fundamentalist, bible-as-convenience crap. The passive-aggressive
guilt trip you're trying to lay on me is just as much crap, but at least
you took only a few words and wrote them in a simple, if ridiculously
loaded, sentence. Hallel... um, haillel... er, hooray.

Idiot.

Pastorio

If you were secure in the truth, you would have had the strength
demonstrated by Carol and other Christians to resist the temptation of
descending into namecalling.

http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

You mean like how you, with no evidence, call people liars?

What fear? What truth?

Path:
newsspool2.news.atl.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!elnk-atl-nf2!newsfeed.earthlink.net!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "Q Wave" <fasts...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology
Subject: Re: Dubious. Very dubious...
Date: 9 Jan 2006 10:00:43 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Message-ID: <1136829643.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1136731479.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
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Xref: news.earthlink.net sci.med.cardiology:132440
<cteas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136881786.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Just more of Chung's madness speaking. He's taken so many heavy verbal
shots from me that he looks for every opportunity to try to take a cheap
shot. Like this. The concept of tautological statements is so far over
his reduced mental capacity that he can't even see it when he's making
demonstrably absurd statements like these.

I did a reverse lookup today on that number. It's ostensibly in Norman,
Oklahoma or environs but has no name listed for it.

Looks like a wireless with a portable number, but no real person's name
is connected to it. Q signs himself Nigel, but alas, no Nigel with that
number. BTW, he has also posted here as Nigel.

Pastorio

Though the LORD has given me a discerning heart so that I am able to
discern the truth in the hearts of others, it remains my choice to
refrain from namecalling.

Nonethess, this is not about me.

Instead this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from
the 6th chapter of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year
into the third millenium after the birth of the Son of Man)

(1) Crowned rider on a white horse wielding a bow:

"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (ie missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian
miners who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after
being trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.

(2) Rider on a fiery red horse wielding a sword:

Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq escalates.
U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.

(3) Rider on a black horse wielding a set of food scales:

The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to slay a fourth of the
world's population using the world's wild animals:

The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic is here:

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

Note: The migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/06) from 6 to 7 pm

You failed to discern that most Bible scholars estimate Jesus' birth to
have occurred about 4BC to 6BC, so we're probably in the second decade
of the third millennium.
--
Don Kirkman

To discern is not the same thing as to notice. You would have known
this had you been able to discern the truth.

Moreover, most Bible scholars, like you, do not have discerning hearts.

If they did, they would have discerned that an omer is NOT a tenth of
an ephah.

For this you will remain in my prayers, dear Don whom I love, in Jesus'
most precious and holy name.

It's mentioned in Exodus 16:36 where it specifically says it's the tenth
part of an ephah.

It takes no scholarship to "discern" that an omer is a tenth of an
ephah. It specifically says that in the bible, word for word. No
discernment necessary. It's the absolute word of God, says Chung. Now he
has decided that God's words aren't true. That the - literally -
thousands of *scholars* who have worked with source materials for
translations are *all wrong* every one - the whole lot is wrong and
Chung is right. Oh, wait. He says above that "most Bible scholars" do
not have discerning hearts. But the ones who do, by his standards, still
say that an omer is a tenth part of an ephah. Logical nonsense from Chung.

*NOT ONE SOURCE* says that an omer is a unit of weight. NOT ONE. The
word "omer" is recognized as meaning "sheaf" or "heap" or "bundle" in
Hebrew. Obviously a dry volumetric measure.

But beyond that, it is an established piece of Judaism and Hebrew what
the relative measures were in ancient times and what they meant. A few
sources:

"The law of grain offerings in Numbers 15:8-9 provides some instruction.
We need to learn a little bit about Israelite measures. The smallest
unit of measure is an omer. Three omers equal one seah. This seah is
what is translated "measure" in Matthew 13:33, except it is in Greek —
saton. There is also the ephah, which is ten omers."
<http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3593/Omer-.htm>

"omer (= 1/10 ephah; also called issaron)"
<http://tinyurl.com/dyj6u>

"Omer (an ancient dry measure, and the Hebrew word for "sheaf")"
<http://www.jhhrn.org/sn05-2004.html>

"from '`amar' (6014); properly, a heap, i.e. a sheaf; also an omer, as a
dry measure:--omer, sheaf." Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
<http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRHEB60.htm>

"The homer was the standard unit of dry measurement. It was equal to
approximately ten baths, or anywhere between 3.8 and 6.524 bushels. An
ephah is one-tenth of a homer, or about 3/8 to 2/3 of a bushel. An omer
is one-tenth of an ephah.
[...]
"Systems varied from country to country. Therefore, though there was
much similarity, there were a variety of standards and lack of honesty
and judgment came to be associated with measurements in some cases. This
is why the "Talmud contained strict regulations for the business world
concerning honesty of measurements."
<http://www.mustardseed.net/html/tweightmeasure.html>

KJV Ex. 16:22
And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much
bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation
came and told Moses.

Ex 16:32
And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an
omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread
wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth
from the land of Egypt.

Ex 16:33
And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna
therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations.

Ex 16:36
*Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah.*

And those who assembled the English translation for the King James
version were without "discernment" according to Chung, then the
translators for all these bibles were also "undiscerning" because they
all rendered the words identically but one. And that one still
maintained the facts.

Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (WEB)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (ASV)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (BBE)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (DBY)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (KJV)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (WBS)
Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. (JPS)
and the omer is a tenth of the ephah. (YLT)

Some information about bible translations:
<http://tinyurl.com/79al4>

But Chung's real fixation is to force absurd definitions so he can
assert that an omer is two pounds. He has contorted and distorted his
words to try to make that view seem to endorse his Two Pound Diet which
he now says isn't a diet. He thinks that *saying* that an omer is two
pounds will show that God has endorsed the diet. He asserts that the
625,550 Jews wandering in the desert ate only an omer of manna and all
prospered and were healthy eating what he says is the perfect amount of
food for everybody under all conditions. Of course, no biblical passages
refer to that dietary issue or supports it; he has made it up whole
cloth. And manna, or "bread" in some translations, wasn't all they ate.
They also had, specifically mentioned, quail. And even in the desert,
there are things a gatherer can find to eat.

KJV Ex 16:8
And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the
evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full;

Ex 16:12
I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them,
saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be
filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.

Ex 16:16, 17, 18
16This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every
man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the
number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
17And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
18And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had
nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered
every man according to his eating.

The point was that the whole thing was a miracle. Each one gathered
"some more, some less," not the same amount each. And the fact that
everyone had the correct amount for him meant that it had to have been
miraculous, and therefore not responsible to the gossamer logic of
Chung. Everybody *didn't* consume an omer of manna. It was "every man
according to his eating." Not every man ate the same amount. And they
ate "meat in the evening" in addition to the manna of each morning.

By no logic and by no scholarship, not even by inference, does Chung
have even the most remote factuality behind his assertions on this
subject. He's just dead wrong. Period.

Pastorio

I think he's talking about masturbating.

Your thinking is wrong.

Without the LORD, things are never right.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

- missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners who gave

(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:

(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.

Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/06) from 6 to 7 pm
EST:

http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

For the NIV, this verse is in parentheses indicating that it was not
part of the original text.

May the LORD give you a discerning heart, someday, dear Bob whom I love,

Amen.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to sleep."
- missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners who gave

(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:

Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,

(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:

The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the

The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic is here:

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.

Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things

Hmmmm. Maybe it's the four-hour rapture thing you're supposed to ask
your doctor about.

I know how you feel about Andrew, but at what point did it overspill to
other neighbours? Is this really the face of you? The father, the
caring talented and intelligent chef and neighbour?

Does anyone of us purposely lead someone else into a dangerous
situation unless they are down right evil? I wasn't trying to make you
feel guilty, because I don't for one minute think that you realised how
insidious hate can be. It catches us all unawares at times, including
Andrew and I, we wouldn't be human if it didn't.

*ONE* translation of the bible out of all the ones I cited, you decide
to use as your entire rationale for rejecting the fact that *every*
English translation has the same verse in it, with all the authority
that conveys...

<LOL> Nice try, Andrew. But somehow that verse got into *every* English
translation from *all* sources used in translating to all languages. Are
you saying that *all* those translators working in 2500 languages
decided to add the same thing to their translations even though it
wasn't part of the original text? Maybe some sort of translational
telepathy...?

Obviously you haven't looked at the history behind the NIV. There was no
single "original text" for any of the translations. They used the
Masoretic text and many others including the Dead Sea Scrolls to arrive
at the best translations in their eyes. Fascinating reading, you ought
to take a look.

And if you look at Hebrew versions of Exodus 16, there it is, big as the
hole in your argument.
<http://tinyurl.com/7hpu4>

Or if you'd like to hear Exodus 16 read in Hebrew from the Masoretic
text from a different source. Fairly easy to follow along with the
reader. Adonai is God, Yisra-el (phonetic - Israel), Moshe - Moses,
Ah-Ron - Aaron... And wait till you hear how clearly the reader
pronounces "omer." You'll love it.
<http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0216.htm>

It's in the Septuagint: <http://tinyurl.com/7hpu4>

The Vulgate has it: "gomor autem decima pars est oephi"
Says that an omer is the tenth part of an ephah. <http://tinyurl.com/7hpu4>

I know you'll be smiling with a heart full of gladness about the final
truth about what an omer is, especially since you like the NIV bible
translation for what you think permits you to weasel out of reality.
Here, on the official NIV website, it says that an omer is a tenth of an
ephah. And it gives a table of weights and measures that I'm sure you'll
want to agree with, given your deep scholarship on the subject.
<http://www.ibs.org/niv/table_measures.php>

Andrew, you have not one source supporting your erroneous position that
an omer is a unit of weight. Not one. In fact, every source that defines
it as any kind of unit says it's a measure of volume; many give
linguistic origins and meanings for the era when the bible was written
with modern equivalents. Not one source supports your assertion.

"I discern it" isn't a valid assertion to inform. Your "discernment" has
been demonstrated to be faulty too many times for any credibility.

Pastorio

Dear Carol: (proper salutation gets a colon)

...and that's how I think of you.

It's another face reserved for fakes and frauds and fountains of folly.
It's righteous scorn mixed with a little wordplay, and the odd fact, to
rub your ignorant nose in. See how much fun a person can have as long as
there are fatuous bubbleheads like you around?

Carol, I can't even begin to explain to you how shallow and light of
mind you are. How thinly superficial you are. How sublimely laughable
your micro-ideas are. You have only your formula prattle to carry you.
Not an original thought in the package. Mouthings and pious platitudes,
worse than Andrew because at least he's entertaining in his dementia.

<LOL> You mean... you mean... *even* you and Andrew... can almost act
like, um, humans...? I'll wait to see that. Between your preachy
arms-length sermonizing and Andrew's relentless boasting and
self-aggrandizement, the pair of you make a sad set of bookends. Both of
you are utterly ignorant of how most people see your public displays of
what should be private by all biblical accounts. But you two know
better... Riiiiight.

And it should be "including Andrew and me."

Carol, you don't even have a glimpse of what love is. Love is selfless
and you're anything but. Ritual mouthings. You and Andrew. Sound and fury...

Pastorio

"Not part of the original text." That's funny, considering how the
bible was cobbled together.

No, mental masturbation seems a pretty accurate description.

Of course "discernment" is required. I mean, if you define "discernment"
to mean "make it mean whatever I want it to mean."

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Charity hospital closes for good
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3D51207C

A city on hold
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y3E55207C

If Katrina was a "judgment," god hates poor people
and churches but loves a good party...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com

Nice dodge; you completely avoided addressing the point.

You're more discerning about the bible than actual bible scholars?
Golly, how vain and arrogant. You think "the LORD" doesn't want bible
scholars to figure out it's little book for some reason?

No, we know when a stone is hurling at us with full force, we are
strengthed in The Lord's Spirit.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove,
rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound
doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves
teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and
shall be turned unto fables.

2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work
of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

So when you accuse people of being liars with no evidence to back up
your assertions, that isn't namecalling, but when people accuse you of
being dishonest and hateful, with evidence to back up their assertions,
that is namecalling? Perhaps you could explain the difference, but I
bet not. And on top of all that, you claim to know what's in another's
heart; that's called LYING, Andy.

The LORD is the living WORD... the "original text."

Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east, has
suffered a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006) from 6 to 7

Your despair will only grow deeper.

No. I have written plainly.

No.

Actually, I have.

The LORD is the single "original text" for HE is the living WORD.

Actually, I have.

Thank for the link. Would suggest you use the "compare" feature of the
web site that you cite to line up all the translations of 16:36 to see
that the indeed many translations have recognized the untruthfulness of
16:36 by either adding parentheses just like those in the NIV or dropped
the verse altogether.

The LORD promises woe to those who would either attempt to add to or
propagate unauthorized additions to the Holy Bible.

For this, you remain in my prayers, dear Bob whom I love, in Jesus' most
precious and holy name.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east, has
suffered a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006) from 6 to 7

I have written plainly enough to obviate any need to answer your
untruthful question.

The truth requires no explanation.

No, the LORD has not given me HIS gift of clairvoyance in addition to
the discerning heart.

It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to sleep."
- missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners who gave

(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:

suffered a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq

(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:

The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the

The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic is here:

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006) from 6 to 7

Was not a dodge.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to sleep."
- missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners who gave

(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:

suffered a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq

(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:

The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the

The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic is here:

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.

Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006) from 6 to 7

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dodge
Main Entry: 1dodge
Pronunciation: 'däj
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
1 a : an artful device to evade, deceive, or trick

You evaded the point (and poorly, at that). Hence, you dodged.
Therefore, you're now lying. Keep it up.

So now you're claiming you HAVEN'T called others liars? And yet my
question is somehow "untruthful"? That's a neat trick. I'd ask you to
explain it, but I can discern your answer.

Looky there, a lying dodge.

"the LORD has given me a discerning heart so that I am able to discern

So which is it?

Oops, another whopper.

Interesting. So where, exactly, can we find the original "the LORD"
written down, so we can compare that to what we have now? If it's
living, what does it eat and excrete? What does it breathe? How does
it reproduce? How long does it live?

You're really getting twisted up, Andy.

Funny that it doesn''t work for seeing yourself.

No, it is precisely about you and the damage you are doing to your own
cause.

jim

You're so vain, you probably think this flame is about you.

Let me guess: "nonetheless"?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/7fafc1ebd8ea8994?hl=en&
"If that were true, you would have been more able to either spell or
use
the spellchecker here." So sayeth Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Too bad. Too, too bad.

It seems you have confused the LORD's gift of a discerning heart with
HIS gift of vision.

You have the free will that the LORD has generously given you to believe
what you choose to believe.

The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and write so
that HIS purpose for my informing people is realized. Please consider
yourself so informed. The 4 horsemen are now here to convince everyone
that heeding the information that has been provided is wise.

For this you will remain in my prayers, dear Jim whom I love, in Jesus'
name.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

Correct.

We all fall short of the LORD's glory. Sorry for the typographical
errors. It will happen again. Please forgive my iniquities.

Thank you for showing that writing truthfully is not a dodge.

Now this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from the 6th

(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:

Truth is not a claim.

It is.

Truth is not a trick.

It is clear that you are unable to discern the truth.

Truth is not a dodge.

Both statements are truthful.

You remind me of the blind man who would feign vision among the seeing.

Infinitely.

We can't.

The LORD need not do either.

> What does it breathe?

The LORD need not breathe.

> How does
> it reproduce?

The LORD need not reproduce.

The LORD is forever.

The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and write.

>Don Kirkman wrote:
>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
>> article <1136964052.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:

Bwhahahah!

>> >Instead this is about the works of the four riders on horseback from

>> >into the third millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):

No matter; you've neither discerned nor noticed the truth that lies
around you in the real world.

>Moreover, most Bible scholars, like you, do not have discerning hearts.

Thank you for acknowledging, however unartfully, my possession of a
discerning heart.

But they have discerned that your assertion of the timing is based on
the faulty calculations and assumptions of the good Bishop Usher and the
manuscripts available to him in the 16th century, whereas the scholars
now have better manuscripts as well as a better understanding of the
historical Jewish/Hebrew culture and idiom than the bishop did. They,
unlike Bishop Usher, do not believe the universe was created in 4004BC.
Since you have rejected evolution may we assume you believe the universe
was created a little over six millennia ago?

The scholars also have discerned that the Jewish people know more about
the meaning of Hebrew words than you do, including the measure of an
ephah and an omer..

I much prefer discernings that make a difference, not vapid mutterings.
--
Don Kirkman

No. You haven't, actually. Starting with "text" which is written
material, in the context. This nonsensical sentence, "The LORD is the
single "original text" for HE is the living WORD" destroys your
assertion since no one can translate that sort of "original text." How
does one "translate" the lord? Nonsense.

But no explanation why, since it's in old Hebrew texts, it's included in
all translations. Still another weaseling.

<LOL> That's a mocking laugh, Andrew, so there's no mistaking it with
your "discernment."

Then if that "original text" from which translations are made, well, I'm
sure you see how you've figuratively painted yourself into a logical and
linguistic corner. All those translators worked from *documents. That's
what "original text" means.

This is another cuteness of Chung's. So just because Andrew is such a
snugglebunny, I did. Picked the first 5, and then the next 5, and the
next 5, until all were compared. ...
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2016:36;&version=49;65;45;51;9;>
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2016:36;&version=47;46;50;48;8;>
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2016:36;&version=15;16;74;77;53;>
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2016:36;&version=73;64;74;77;53;>

They all included the verse. The Hebrew "original text" adds, "An omer
is one tenth of an ephah." In the CEV " omer" is usually translated "two
quarts." Other translations offer different words, but every one has
essentially the same idea derived from "original text" documents.

And the commentary said, "But those who ate manna, hungered again, died
at last, and with many of them God was not well pleased..." So much for
the 625,550 who prospered eating manna.

So let me see if I understand this. The bible is the absolute word of
God, correct in every thought because he guided its creation and
expression. Thousands of scholars have worked on translating it in the
various versions and *every one of them did it wrong if they included
Exodus 16:36*. People working from many, many documents from Hebrew
sources and even compared with Dead Sea Scrolls which document the later
copies as valid. Chung now says that Exodus 16:36 is "untruthful" and
that must mean that thousands of diligent scholars were all led astray
in the same direction, over centuries and many countries. People who had
little or no contact with each other. Not just the English versions, but
*all* versions include that verse in its stark rebuttal to everything
Chung is trying to foist off with his two pound diet.

Passages in the bible that are "untruthful." Amazing... But, funny
thing, all the translations accessed - *all the translations* - have
that verse.

That's truly funny in a chilling sort of way. Now Andrew is dropping
verses of the bible that disagree with his demented view of it. <LOL>
That's genuinely funny. Chung edits the bible to suit his diet. What
could be funnier? Chung the biblical critic. Bwah...

"...unauthorized...?" So now Chung is deciding what's "authorized" in
the bible. <LOL> It gets curiouser and curiouser...

Here's some translator instruction for Chung, even though he claims to
know Chinese and should know about the different kinds of translations.
Look at this page for a moment to see what the intentions of the
different translations were:
<http://www.zondervanbibles.com/translations.htm>
Note that they had different agendas for the different translations. The
NIV that Chung is so fond of for this case is described thusly:
# The NIV is literal where possible and "thought-for-thought" where
necessary to help the reader understand
# The NIV is the best balance between accuracy and readibility
# Reading Level: 7.80
Seventh grade reading level.

The King James, OTOH, is described this way:
# Reference Support Material: High
# Number of Translators: 54
# Translation Philosophy/Format: Word-for-word
# Reading Level: 12.00

Note the "word-for-word" description. Exodus 16:36 is translated
"word-for-word" from "original text" documents. It says, "Now an omer is
the tenth part of an ephah." Period.

Chung is now saying that at least one part of the bible is untruthful,
in direct and absolute contradiction to his earlier positions. It opens
the door to looking at other verses, chapters, even whole books and
saying that they're "untruthful" as well. So now Chung can tailor the
bible even more to suit his febrile dementia than he does now. Not just
ignore passages, but strike them as he will.

Could anyone take this sort of lunacy seriously? This is a new sort of
madness from him. Editing the bible... truly astonishing.

Pastorio

Those who have chosen to walk with Christ are learning directly from
HIM, Who is the living WORD. The omer is an amount of manna specified
by the LORD. For this reason, the omer is a unit measure that has no
peer so that it most certainly is a weight measure that is not
subordinate to a volume measure such as the ephah as suggested by "(An
omer is one tenth of an ephah)" which as an included verse of Exodus
16:36, stands out as a non sequitur, betraying it as a failed human
addition to the WORD. Those who have discerning hearts will know this.

May the LORD give you a discerning heart, someday, dear Bob whom I

suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

http://tinyurl.com/amj4a

this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/06) from 6 to 7 pm

>"Bob (this one)" wrote:

>For the NIV, this verse is in parentheses indicating that it was not

And how did you "discern" that "truth"? No commentary that I found in a
Google search say that; one suggests that v. 36 should immediately
follow v. 18, but none suggest that the words are not in the Hebrew
text. Parenthesis are to enclose incidental comments, not to expunge
something from a text.

Following your principle, the words "we are now in the 6th year into the
third millennium after the birth of the Son of Man" cannot be part of
your original text.
--
Don Kirkman