4 Reasons John was writing a gospel sermon about suffering under Rome

eclipsenow · Jul 21, 2021

keras said:
I contend it is because God has put a spirit of misunderstanding on us

See, I thought the main role of the Holy Spirit was to regenerate and sanctify us, and help lead us into all godliness. Not sort out minor quibbles. It's his role to help us even respond to the gospel in the first place.

all the prophesies and who allow the holy Spirit to guide them, who will know; at least in part, what God actually does plan for our future.

Ah, so you've concocted an alternative narrative that you are in fact super-spiritual? Nice. That fits with the arrogance of your unwitting pronouncement that MTC are going to hell. (But then you don't seem to be super-spiritual enough to even read Matt 11 in context - and inaccurately claim that applying Matt 11 would not say that.)

If it's the HS that enables us to get eschatology right, and IF it is so important as you claim (I'm so tired of your superior attitude as you lament that no one will listen to your pet individualistic theory and timetables!), why has He selected YOU ALONE to go down your own individual path-way? Ah, that's right, because you are 'super-special' and super-spiritual. Riiiiiiiighhht. :oldthumbsup:

What a nice bit of circular reasoning you've got there!

Sadly, there are many teachers who promote their private interpretation of what they think will happen.

Again, you're talking to yourself. Quote me how many eschatology Phds have decided on 2026 for the AC? :oldthumbsup:

Go on! If you're not just another 'private interpretation' (your words!) of eschatology - and how can you get 'more private' than justifying your own reading of the bible by claiming the HS told you - then there should be many denominations that cluster around 2026 for the AC, let alone the thousands of peer-reviewed theological papers that all agree with you. OK, where are they? :oldthumbsup:

Your 'super-spiritual' circular reasoning about why you're special and individualistic doesn't fit with your condemnation of special individuals promoting their private interpretation. You've just attacked your own precious timetable.

Sorry pal - I have ZERO confidence that 2026 is going to happen as you describe it. If this whole approach to futurism wasn't so sad and didn't start so many cults, I'd be tempted to laugh out loud.

Marilyn C · Jul 21, 2021

keras said:
Not one of the scripture quotes you posted actually says humans will go to live in heaven.
Jesus said many times that such a thing was impossible; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 2:25-26
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed and the wicked will not inhabit the earth.

Jesus was talking to the Jews and NOT the Body of Christ which is a later revelation.

Marilyn C · Jul 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Hmmm, interesting. We keep talking past each other. All Scripture being fulfilled would be like saying I'm Full Preterist but I'm not - that is a heresy. The Lord will return. That obviously has not happened yet. Maybe I'm having trouble explaining Eschatological Tension?
I'm Reformed 4 Solas Amil, also known as "2 ages" theology.
Maybe this article will help explain.
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger

Yes so true eclipse as to it being difficult to understand each other. Still we persevere. Will look up the article. Thank you.

timothyu · Jul 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
See, I thought the main role of the Holy Spirit was to regenerate and sanctify us, and help lead us into all godliness. Not sort out minor quibbles. It's his role to help us even respond to the gospel in the first place.

Jesus put His own on the narrow path to the Kingdom/governance of God over that of man and the ways of the world. He said He would send a helper to keep us on that path, to not fall back into the ways of the world. Ru'ah Ha-Kodesh... Holy guiding wind

Marilyn C · Jul 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Hmmm, interesting. We keep talking past each other. All Scripture being fulfilled would be like saying I'm Full Preterist but I'm not - that is a heresy. The Lord will return. That obviously has not happened yet. Maybe I'm having trouble explaining Eschatological Tension?
I'm Reformed 4 Solas Amil, also known as "2 ages" theology.
Maybe this article will help explain.
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger

Hi eclipse,

I have just down loaded the article and will make comments as I go along, instead of too many at the end. This is a qute from the beginning of the article.

Most American Evangelicals are firmly committed to the idea that an earthly millennial age will begin immediately after our Lord Jesus Christ’s Second Advent. Since premillennialism is so dominant in American church circles, many who encounter historic Protestantism for the first time are quite surprised when they discover that all of the Protestant Reformers and the entire Reformed and Lutheran traditions are amillennial.

So if you know church history you will understand WHY there was an `amillennial` view with the Protestant Reformers. First let us look at what the Apostle Paul says to get our bearing.

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock , among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

For I know this, that after my departures savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 27 - 30)

And this is exactly what happened in the ensuring years. Bishops were substituted for Apostles, formalism instead of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, infant baptism instead of adult believer`s baptism and penance indulgences for salvation instead of belief in Christ.

We know that there was a spiritual awakening in the 1300`s when Wycliffe translated the Bible into English and later Calvin and Luther helped to provide leadership for a growing protest against the Roman Catholic System. However Luther still believed in the real presence in the Eucharist and a territorial or nation Church. That is what the Anabaptists stood against, and later became the Baptists.

And so on...The Wesley brothers and other great revivalists brought about a renewed spiritual life and social sensitivity

The Holy Spirit was guiding the believers into `all truth` as Jesus said He would. (John 15: 13) And that we see is over time.

Thus we have a great falling away in error, then a gradual clarifying of truths over the centuries.

Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.

1. Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)

2. Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)

3. Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)

4. Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th C)

5. Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)

6. Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)

7. Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)

8. Methodist - Holiness. (1738)

9. Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)

10. Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916) & the Eternal Purposes.

The eschatological truths of Christ`s return is only just now being clarified across the Body. The early reformers did not have that knowledge but only concentrated on one truth. However they still held many errors and amillennialism is one of them.

So an appeal to the reformers of the past is not valid.

keras · Jul 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
See, I thought the main role of the Holy Spirit was to regenerate and sanctify us, and help lead us into all godliness. Not sort out minor quibbles. It's his role to help us even respond to the gospel in the first place.

The HS does that for those who ask for their salvation in faith and sincerity.
But we are discussing prophetic issues; a different matter.

eclipsenow said:
Ah, so you've concocted an alternative narrative that you are in fact super-spiritual? Nice.

I did have a vision and I surely have had help from the HS to do what I have done. Other people have His help, to do evangelism, etc.
God has not given so much prophecy to us without some people knowing how the end times will unfold, as Daniel 12:10 says; a few will understand. But the majority, especially those who grip onto false theories, will be shocked and surprised at what will soon happen.

eclipsenow said:
That fits with the arrogance of your unwitting pronouncement that MTC are going to hell.

I have not said anything of the kind. That is a rude and false accusation.
The godly people of MTC will be rewarded for their efforts in advancing the Gospel.
But when anyone promotes false and unbiblical theories such as the 'rapture to heaven' and AMillennium, then they may be disadvantaged at the Judgment.

eclipsenow said:
why has He selected YOU ALONE to go down your own individual path-way?

God only needs one to proclaim His message. The Prophets were lone voices and were mostly rejected and even killed. I expect rejection, in fact if I had a great following, fame and adulation, then I would know I had gone of the rails.
So many 'prophecy experts' have; to their Eternal discredit.

eclipsenow said:
I have ZERO confidence that 2026 is going to happen

Comments like this are YOUR predictions!
How do you know what 2026 will bring?
Actually, most people have zero confidence that the world will continue on as it is now for ever, or even until next year!

Marilyn C said:
Jesus was talking to the Jews and NOT the Body of Christ which is a later revelation.

This idea is quite wrong and conflicts with the entire New Testament message.
There is only ONE people of God, Christian peoples from every tribe, [incl Jews] every race, nation and language. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

eclipsenow · Jul 21, 2021

Marilyn C said:
Hi eclipse,

I have just down loaded the article and will make comments as I go along, instead of too many at the end. This is a qute from the beginning of the article.

Most American Evangelicals are firmly committed to the idea that an earthly millennial age will begin immediately after our Lord Jesus Christ’s Second Advent. Since premillennialism is so dominant in American church circles, many who encounter historic Protestantism for the first time are quite surprised when they discover that all of the Protestant Reformers and the entire Reformed and Lutheran traditions are amillennial.

So if you know church history you will understand WHY there was an `amillennial` view with the Protestant Reformers. First let us look at what the Apostle Paul says to get our bearing.

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock , among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

For I know this, that after my departures savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 27 - 30)

And this is exactly what happened in the ensuring years. Bishops were substituted for Apostles, formalism instead of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, infant baptism instead of adult believer`s baptism and penance indulgences for salvation instead of belief in Christ.

We know that there was a spiritual awakening in the 1300`s when Wycliffe translated the Bible into English and later Calvin and Luther helped to provide leadership for a growing protest against the Roman Catholic System. However Luther still believed in the real presence in the Eucharist and a territorial or nation Church. That is what the Anabaptists stood against, and later became the Baptists.

And so on...The Wesley brothers and other great revivalists brought about a renewed spiritual life and social sensitivity

The Holy Spirit was guiding the believers into `all truth` as Jesus said He would. (John 15: 13) And that we see is over time.

Thus we have a great falling away in error, then a gradual clarifying of truths over the centuries.

Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.

1. Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)

2. Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)

3. Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)

4. Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th C)

5. Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)

6. Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)

7. Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)

8. Methodist - Holiness. (1738)

9. Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)

10. Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916) & the Eternal Purposes.

The eschatological truths of Christ`s return is only just now being clarified across the Body. The early reformers did not have that knowledge but only concentrated on one truth. However they still held many errors and amillennialism is one of them.

So an appeal to the reformers of the past is not valid.

You assume the theology you want, then argue from history that there was a great falling away and then coming back. You list the falling away verses as Acts 20: 27 - 30, but you have to be REALLY careful doing that for two reasons.

1. Not enough verses to describe your speculative stages of history.
If you're going to apply scripture to history like this, where are the verses that describes the Reformation and points 6 to 10 in the 'coming back'? Sorry, but I don't think you can pluck Acts 20 out of context and apply it to chunks of history as you see fit.

2. The main problem is, Acts 20 still applies today
Acts 20 seems to be about the majors, not the minors. "Savage wolves" is the language of salvation-breaking heresy - things that defy the gospel. All our debating eschatological frameworks is (mostly) not in the same league. Please be careful how you pluck verses out of their historical frameworks and apply them to theology you don't like - or you'll end up like Keras - unintentionally implying those that disagree with your mere eschatology are actually not saved in the first place!

eclipsenow · Jul 21, 2021

keras said:
The HS does that for those who ask for their salvation in faith and sincerity. But we are discussing prophetic issues; a different matter.

Oh, right, so now salvation and your individualistic subjective untestable 'vision' of eschatology are two different matters? OK, that's very gracious of you.

I did have a vision and I surely have had help from the HS to do what I have done. Other people have His help, to do evangelism, etc.

Ah, so you are super-special. So what you're saying is the reason no-one else on planet earth has your individualistic subjective untestable 'vision' of eschatology is not that they actually don't understand scripture - it's that they haven't had your utterly untestable 'vision' that you merely assert you have had. Sounds like Islam - all based on Mohammed's dreams and utterly untestable.

God has not given so much prophecy to us without some people knowing how the end times will unfold, as Daniel 12:10 says; a few will understand.

Except that by applying this verse you're saying people who don't understand are wicked - that is, enemies of God.

Oh, right, so now salvation and your individualistic subjective untestable 'vision' of eschatology are the one and the same matter? OK, that's very ungracious of you.

You do realise that every time you demonstrate poor comprehension of the scriptures like this you're also attacking the credibility of and reliability of your your particular individualistic subjective 'vision'?

I mean, if you can't get the bible right when it is open before your very eyes, how are we to be confident that you interpreted some vague dream in your head? :doh:

But the majority, especially those who grip onto false theories, will be shocked and surprised at what will soon happen.

The Lord could return in 5 seconds, or in 50,000 years.
We just. Don't. KNOW!
As he said!

I have not said anything of the kind. That is a rude and false accusation.
The godly people of MTC will be rewarded for their efforts in advancing the Gospel.

That's very gracious of you allowing MTC to go to heaven.

But when anyone promotes false and unbiblical theories such as the 'rapture to heaven' and AMillennium, then they may be disadvantaged at the Judgment.

Um, that sounds like hell again.
That's very ungracious of you not allowing MTC to go to heaven.

God only needs one to proclaim His message. The Prophets were lone voices and were mostly rejected and even killed.

Oh, right? Do you have authority to write scripture as well? :oldthumbsup:

Just how truly wonderful are you? :doh:

Oh, and while we are on the "God only needs one..." schtick, I thought you said that ...

Sadly, there are many teachers who promote their private interpretation of what they think will happen.

When your whole basis of WRENCHING scripture out of context and FORCING it to say things it jolly-well doesn't say is your own completely untestable fever-dreams - how am I to know you're not one of those who "promote their private interpretation of what they think will happen?"

Especially when you already predicted 2012 predictions? If you said "The Lord says" about 2012 - you know that under Old Testament law you would have been executed? That's how serious false prediction is.

Are you sure you want to play this game?

I expect rejection, in fact if I had a great following, fame and adulation, then I would know I had gone of the rails.
So many 'prophecy experts' have; to their Eternal discredit.

I just don't care about your silly martyr complex.
You can't understand easy verses, let alone more complex stuff.

My concern is what happens if you actually got a bunch of people following you in NZ. When 2026 rolls around and doesn't play out the way you predict, are going to use Coolaid or fire?

Timtofly · Jul 21, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
You have such a hard time giving straightforward answers. I'll try again. What would your answer be to the question Paul asked here:

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

What in the world are you talking about? Why do you still not know what dispensationalism is despite the fact that you can easily go on the Internet and look it up?

Satan is the one who accuses us day and night. When did that accusation start and when will it end?

When was Jesus Christ our advocate? When did that start, when will it end?

timothyu · Jul 21, 2021

Diabolos... false accuser
Satan... adversary

eclipsenow · Jul 21, 2021

timothyu said:
Diabolos... false accuser
Satan... adversary

Try to limit your comments about one post to one post.
Try to speak in sentences that say something concrete about something - and answer rather than ask more questions.

keras · Jul 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Ah, so you are super-special

I am merely stating facts. You obviously haven't bothered to look at my website, with its over 800 articles, mostly on the Prophetic Word. Articles that I am incapable of writing in my own strength or skills.

eclipsenow said:
Except that by applying this verse you're saying people who don't understand are wicked - that is, enemies of God.

Making that kind of accusation makes me wonder at your motivation.

eclipsenow said:
You do realise that every time you demonstrate poor comprehension of the scriptures like this you're also attacking the credibility of and reliability of your your particular individualistic subjective 'vision'?

You have yet to show how Matthew 11:25-26 means something different from what it plainly states. You also fail to acknowledge the other verses which support the fact of God removing the wisdom of the wise.

eclipsenow said:
The Lord could return in 5 seconds, or in 50,000 years.

No: He could not come before all the things prophesied from Revelation 6:12 until Revelation 19:10, have taken place.
It is plain from what we are shown in the Bible, that God has a 7000 year Plan for mankind. We are now very close to the 6000 year mark.

eclipsenow said:
how am I to know you're not one of those who "promote their private interpretation of what they think will happen?"

Because if you did actually read any of my articles, you would see how they are mostly Bible verses. I just present them to people as they are, as most pew sitters have never heard hem preached and if they have; or read them themselves; they usually think they don't apply to them, or have any relevance to the end times.
I use other verses to help to explain them and we do have modern knowledge and the benefit if hindsight now.

The rest or your post is a disgusting rant, that is unbecoming of you. You put Sydney Anglicans into a bad light.

eclipsenow · Jul 22, 2021

keras said:
You obviously haven't bothered to look at my website, with its over 800 articles...

Ewww - I think I'd rather read a work of fiction like the book of Mormon!

Making that kind of accusation makes me wonder at your motivation.

It's what the text you quoted says? Seriously, this isn't rocket science!

You have yet to show how Matthew 11:25-26 means something different from what it plainly states.

Sorry - that's you pal. From the context of that chapter you're going to have a tough job showing that 'hiddenness' here is anything other than understanding the saving gospel itself. But go on! Just ignore what the 2 commentaries and I am telling you! You've got a special inner voice guiding you! :doh:

You also fail to acknowledge the other verses which support the fact of God removing the wisdom of the wise.

Ha ha ha - oh wow it continues. :doh:

You quoted them to sound smugly superior and wiser, when in fact the majority of these verses are not about understanding subtle edge doctrines - but the core gospel of life itself. You quoted them to sound smart - but in reality it revealed your poor comprehension.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

No: He could not come before all the things prophesied from Revelation 6:12 until Revelation 19:10, have taken place.

Yes he can because in returning on Judgement Day the Lord Jesus actually fulfils the end of Rev 6! Stars don't fall from heaven - our own sun is 98% of the mass of the solar system and ALL the other planets combined only make up 2%. Basically 'stars falling from heaven' cannot literally happen.

But that's the least of your worries. They are trying to hide from the face of God. God has returned in this verse! Let that sink in.

It is plain from what we are shown in the Bible, that God has a 7000 year Plan for mankind. We are now very close to the 6000 year mark.

Maybe it's plain to your fever-dream, but as Revelation Chapter 1 clearly shows John wrote to his generation and about his generation - reminding them in picture language like Revelation 6 that the Lord Jesus WILL one day return and judge the world and set things to rights. Sadly, you miss that and see Rev 6 as the beginning of trouble, not the end of it! It directly defies John's purpose in writing it!

Because if you did actually read any of my articles,

...ewwww! Please stop with the attention-seeking website promo! Makes me wince every time.

you would see how they are mostly Bible verses.

Ha ha ha - as I have already shown, that means nothing when it's coming from you pal!

I just present them to people as they are,

Then why do most commentaries read them 'as they are' and come to completely different conclusions? Oh - that's right - they don't have your special fever dream! :clap:

I use other verses to help to explain them and we do have modern knowledge and the benefit if hindsight now.

Well, at least you finally admit it.
There's been no way to understand the majority of the book for the last 2000 years!
IF futurism is right. But it isn't.
Reformed Amillennialism is.

The rest or your post is a disgusting rant, that is unbecoming of you. You put Sydney Anglicans into a bad light.

You sent them to hell!

This narrative warns that God judges peoples according to the opportunities they have had to respond to his truth. This is not to say that anyone is without some light and therefore escapes punishment, but to say that those who know best-in our day perhaps those who grow up in loving Christian homes-yet reject the truth will be punished most severely (Lk 12:47-48; Rom 2:12-16; 12:19-20; Rev 9:20-21). Those who claim to be God's people are often the most hardhearted hearers of all (see comment on Mt 2:1-12). Tyre, Sidon and Sodom would have repented, but God's people took the signs for granted (compare 2:4-11).
Judgment on Unrepentant Cities (11:20-24) - IVP New Testament Commentary Series - Bible Gateway

Oh, that's right, you don't respect bible scholars at all!
You have an inner voice that tells you what to believe.
I come from a strong Sola Scriptura background.
Do you know what that is?

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2021

Timtofly said:
Satan is the one who accuses us day and night.

So, do you think that Paul had in mind "Satan" as the answer to his question in Romans 8:33 instead of no one? If so, you are alone in that interpretation.

When did that accusation start and when will it end?

It started long ago when Adam and Eve sinned. You can see in the book of Job that he appeared before God to accuse Job long ago. It ended when Christ defeated Satan on the cross. Or some would say when He rose again. And some would even say it was shortly before that because in Luke 10:18 Jesus said "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" and in John 12:31 He said "now shall the prince of this world be cast out". Regardless, Satan being cast out of heaven happened long ago. Once Christ provided for the forgiveness of sins, then Satan no longer had anything to accuse believers of because their sins were forgiven.

Do you think Satan can accuse you of sins that you have been forgiven for? Who can make a charge/accusation against God's elect? No one, including Satan. In Romans 8:33, Paul was asking a rhetorical question that all believers should know the answer to, but you don't.

When was Jesus Christ our advocate? When did that start, when will it end?

He became our advocate when He ascended to the right hand of the Father. Since He is there in heaven as our advocate, Satan has nothing to accuse us of because Jesus has already advocated on our behalf and His blood covers our sins. In order to accuse us, Satan would have to go through Jesus and that isn't going to happen.

It will end at His second coming because there will be no more sin after that.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2021

keras said:
I am merely stating facts. You obviously haven't bothered to look at my website, with its over 800 articles, mostly on the Prophetic Word. Articles that I am incapable of writing in my own strength or skills.

Why do you feel the need to count your articles and tell people how many you've written? It comes across that you're being arrogant and bragging about it. I'm not impressed since most of them probably contain false teaching, if your posts here are any indication.

keras · Jul 22, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Why do you feel the need to count your articles and tell people how many you've written? It comes across that you're being arrogant and bragging about it. I'm not impressed since most of them probably contain false teaching, if your posts here are any indication.

I am simply stating facts. An author is allowed some promotion of his work; surely?
Your disagreement with my articles and posts, is because I point out hard truths, scriptures that conflict with your beliefs.

However, this is how God wants it; only a few will understand His plans for our future. Daniel 12:10

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2021

keras said:
I am simply stating facts. An author is allowed some promotion of his work; surely?

Some? You've mentioned it several times. Are you giving this site any money for your self promotion? It shouldn't be free.

The fact that you can't even discern that you are showing your arrogance by taking the time to count how many articles you've written (as if that matters or as if anyone cares) says it all about you.

Your disagreement with my articles and posts, is because I point out hard truths, scriptures that conflict with your beliefs.

However, this is how God wants it; only a few will understand His plans for our future. Daniel 12:10

That is ludicrous. That is not at all what Daniel 12:10 means. God wants all of His people to understand His plans. That is why He sends His Holy Spirit to dwell in all of us to give us understanding.

Have you even read Daniel 12:10?

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Those who are wise are the "many" who are "purified, made spotless and refined". So, this says that those who are wise, which number "many", will understand. Where are you getting this idea that few will understand? That's certainly not what Daniel 12:10 says. None of the wicked understand, but all who are wise do. Maybe the wise are few in relation to the number of the wicked, but this verse is not saying that literally only a few people will understand Daniel's prophecies.

eclipsenow · Jul 22, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
That is ludicrous. That is not at all what Daniel 12:10 means. God wants all of His people to understand His plans. That is why He sends His Holy Spirit to dwell in all of us to give us understanding.

Amen brother!

Have you even read Daniel 12:10?
Daniel 12:10 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Finally someone who can actually.... read?
(I don't want to steal from your thunder - but this verse isn't that hard, is it? :oldthumbsup:

One really wonders what has happened to a certain other member's basic comprehension.)

Those who are wise are the "many" who are "purified, made spotless and refined". So, this says that those who are wise, which number "many", will understand. Where are you getting this idea that few will understand? That's certainly not what Daniel 12:10 says.

Good point.

None of the wicked understand, but all who are wise do. Maybe the wise are few in relation to the number of the wicked, but this verse is not saying that literally only a few people will understand Daniel's prophecies.

No - only Keras has the Holy Spirit in a SPECIAL way! :oldthumbsup:

With his attitude, one wonders why he hasn't just started a cult and written his own additional books for the NT. The Sufficiency of Scriptures is not so much on his radar!

keras · Jul 22, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Those who are wise are the "many" who are "purified, made spotless and refined". So, this says that those who are wise, which number "many", will understand. Where are you getting this idea that few will understand?

only the wise leaders will understand. REBible
But those with discernment will understand. CJBible.
Obviously just a 'few' of the many who are purified.

Spiritual Jew said:
It shouldn't be free.

I have donated to several Forums.
My writings are all free. Many people have told me how they appreciate my clear and well supported articles on the Bible prophesies.
That you and others here won't even look at my website, shows how fixated and locked into your beliefs you are.

eclipsenow · Jul 22, 2021

keras said:
only the wise leaders will understand. REBible
But those with discernment will understand. CJBible. Obviously just a 'few' of the many who are purified.

You have serious comprehension issues.
This is like in Proverbs where Wisdom calls for people to listen and LIVE.
The wise are purified because they understand.
The wicked remain wicked because they don't.
It's one of the oldest themes in the Old Testament - be wise, obey God's law, and live.
Be foolish, disobey God's law, and you will die - and eventually the nation cast from the land.
Choose life, not death, wisdom, not foolishness and death!

I won't even quote the commentaries at you - because you are too special to listen to bible scholars who actually have ancient Hebrew and history and culture and hermeneutics under their belt. You've got a dream - so your comprehension is 'better-er.' :doh:

New International Version
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

English Standard Version
Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

Berean Study Bible
Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

New American Standard Bible
Many will be purged, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

NASB 1995
“Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

American Standard Version
Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but they that are wise shall understand.

Many people have told me how they appreciate my clear and well supported articles on the Bible prophesies.

I am so sad for the state of the church worldwide that someone like you gets followers. It seems there are plenty of itching ears out there wanting something spectacular, gathering around weird websites like an internet version of the old campfire ghost story. Rather than focus on their gospel work - it's all "Ooooh, scary, anti-Christ in 5 years. Aaaah, shiny, millennium soon.... oooh, impressive, look at all his graphs! Aaaah, shiny, genealogies to waste our time..."

2 Timothy 4:3 NIV
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

That you and others here won't even look at my website, shows how fixated and locked into your beliefs you are.

I can't express to you what an utter waste of time that would be! I'd rather watch Netflix. As I have shown, the bible warns me against people like you.

Your 'reading' of the bible shows ignorance of the Hebrew and Greek language, ancient history, ancient cultures, ancient literary genres and how those ancient audiences would have received these various ancient writings. You cannot even read a basic passage like Matthew 11 without getting it wrong!

You trust your 'gut' - your subjective feelings - over valid biblical criticism and questions. You think you are special - but really - 2026 aint gonna happen pal. Stay well. Don't catch Covid. I want to know what excuse you'll come up with when the Mosque is still there*.

(*Most probably. Unlike you, I don't pretend to know the future - so there might be some other historical quirk like an act of terrorism or war that destroys it - but I doubt we'll see a literal AC as you say is definite!)

4 Reasons John was writing a gospel sermon about suffering under Rome

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Well-Known Member

Pre-tribulation.

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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