Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks

For a start, you might want to get your facts straight. It was the BURNLEY
Tunnel, not the Domain Tunnel. And any increase in abuse which you
(allegedly) received can be put squarely on the shoulders of the apoplectic
radio jocks who spent hours (literally) talking about how the world was
going to end because people couldn't drive through their precious tunnel.
For the record, here's some press clippings from AFTER the event which
reflect the reality of the situation:

Herald Sun
"Police said the protest caused only a minor disruption and they were happy
with the conduct of the protesters"

The Age
"VicRoads traffic controllers said the event did not seem to have caused
congestion in other parts of the city"
"After police drove through the closed tunnel at 6.30pm, the first five
cyclists entered from Power Street at 6.35pm. The rest entered from Kings
Way two minutes later. The tunnel was reopened at 7.15pm."

So, far from the projected chaos on the roads, the resulting effect on
traffic caused barely a ripple, according to the authorities. And the tunnel
was closed for a total of 45 minutes -- far from the 2 hours which the radio
jocks were screaming about.

Among the 20 or so Critical Mass riders that I am friendly with, we are
involved in the following bicycle advocacy projects. Personally, I spend
time working on almost every item on this list:

* forming and running successful Bicycle User Groups (BUGs) to promote
cycling and lobby for better cycling facilities
* lobbying government & authorities at all levels, in conjunction with BV
* producing educative and informational cycling newsletters and publications
* sitting on local government cycling advisory committees
* working with local government & BV to create Bike Plans for council areas
* lobbying local council directly for bike lanes (many CM riders have been
involved in a campaign to get lanes on Chapel St, which finally looks like
it may happen)
* maintaining cycling email lists & websites
* writing articles for local newspapers and "BV News"
* planning for a "Melbourne Bike Week" next summer
* working on mode-shift programs which encourage people to consider cycling
rather than driving
* planning & hosting social rides open to the general public
(and this is not even mentioning work by CM'ers in the areas of public
transport & environmental advocacy)

The vast bulk of this work is unpaid & voluntary, and involves a huge
commitment of personal time from many diverse individuals. It would amount
to hundreds of hours spent on cycling advocacy each month -- and that's only
speaking for the 20 people that I know personally. I can't even begin to
speak for the other 430 riders who were at CM last night.

You are WAY off the mark when you paint us as outlaws. We work within the
system 99% of the time, and often we work hand-in-hand with Bicycle
Victoria. If you don't believe me, then ring up BV and ask them. And you
moigyt be interested to know that although BV does not endorse Critical Mass
(nor would we ever ask it to) there are many individuals who work for BV who
ride in CM.

We are not just activists, we are also advocates. Yet once a month when we
put on our party hats at CM, people like you get up on your high horse and
slag us off for being cowboys. Well, let me ask you, SH, what have you done
lately to promote cycling or improve cycling facilities?

I think YOU should get over it. Car use is an environmental, health,
resource use, land use and pollution issue. It's time people realised that
our current addiction to cars is completely unsustainable. And if it takes
CM to do it, then fine.

CM is global, and we're not going away. Come along to a CM ride some time
(last Friday of the month, 5.30pm, State Library) and experience the joy of
it all. You might even like it!

But may as well dream on. Let the talk shows curse bikes! Or that
television applauding the 50 year birthday of Corvette. That seems
to be the start of any division. Sad.

Chris Jordan
Santa Cruz, CA.

It will happen when industry and farming need more petro than we can pump.
But I don't think it will be utopia if we aren't prepared for it.

Mitch.

Many drivers and municipalities treat cyclists like a nuisance, rather than
like the healthy alternative form of transport that they are. While
cyclists may have the same rights to the road, streets are rarely designed
with cyclists in mind, and drivers do their best to let cyclists know they
are not welcome. Critical Mass is just another avenue to let people know
there is a problem. If just a small portion of the people who participate
in Critical Mass use it as just another avenue for getting their message
out, and continue to lobby their government for more bike lanes and safe
road programs in the meantime, then I say all power to them.

I'm sure the civil rights protests of the past were viewed as a nuisance to
some for their time as well.

You're not doing that........your making it only harder for the legit
cyclist to survive.

They have no clue but disruption of the human race......plus 99% don't even
know what a bike is!

They are not road cyclist......the are rogues and disruptors........that
all.

The problem is CM itself.........we don't need your help.......you cause
100% more harm then good

Yes we need more bike lanes, etc.......but CM way of protest will NEVER get
the proper attention and will bring more resistance the help........I have
experienced it.........NO thanks to you.

Yes they were............and did they get what they wanted...........no!
Not with your help...........

n 2. A collective noun for a "bunch of cunts".

You've made four erroneous assumptions here.

One is that all participants in a critical mass protest are hooligans.
Watch one one day and you'll see that while a good number of them are bike
couriers (who should know a thing or two about street riding as they are on
the road in the downtown core all day long), they are not all ruffians.

Two is the ignorant assumption number two is that your way is the only
way... the inherit arrogance in that statement is glaring. The are other
cyclists in this world, and they all have much as much right to their
opinion as you.

Three, that I am a ruffian and an active participant in critical mass
protests. I am not. The city I live in is well equipped for bicycles, and
while I still think things can be better, they are not so deficient that I
have felt the need to participate in a protest.

And lastly, you seem to have the bizarre idea that protests should be hidden
away so that people will not be inconvenienced with the message that is
trying to be conveyed. I wonder how far black rights, gay rights, or
anti-war movements would have gotten if people went so out of their way as
to not interrupt in the slightest the daily routine of the average schmoe
such as yourself.

Critical Mass is nothing more then civil vandelism disguised as a
protest/event. Other road users think that cyclists are a nuisence,
and critical mass does nothing but justify that opinion.

If you want to change the way things are, take off your hemp cycling
jersy, turn down the phish cd and WORK to make it better.

and that is your opinion.........right........one's opinion, just like mine

Then you should police your critical mass.........the few as you
say........ruin it all for the good!

Protest or social disorder? there is a difference.

Yes...to get your rights.........you should stomp on others rights to get
your point across........ I think not!

I know........wrote enough tickets for the MC in Sac.
>
>

Now retired and still a cyclist........ I dealt with MC in Sac.......on the
law enforcement level..... I witness what they did and I was embarrassed at
what they did. Being a bike cop........it was totally out of control and no
respect for others. So how would you expect to get respect from the
public.???????
I ride every day.......take part in USCF races...........etc..... the
general consensus is they are a bunch of losers who have nothing else to do
but disrupt peoples lives and make the bike a bad thing for the general
public.
They do nothing to help the cause of better bike lanes, bike paths, or
better bike commute ....
Most are a bunch of burnt out hippies who found a bike in an
alley........then had an opportunity to disrupt the lives of others.
That of course is generally speaking.........there were some good one's in
the crowd......but being drown out by the losers...
To bad for a cause.........
>
>

There is no doubt that critical mass participants have a right to protest.
However, there is a big difference between protesting and disrupting.
Protesting gets the word out that there is a group of people who are opposed
to someone else's opinion or the way something is being done. Disrupting is
making the normal order impossible because the "protestors" are blocking
access.

Lobby all you want. Have petition drives. Put up signs. Have cycling
programs for kids. Get the transportation people to add more questions about
bicycles on driver's exams. Work on stricter penalties for injuring or
killing a cyclist with a car. Do all of these things, but please, don't jam
up the roads in "protest." It does nothing to promote our rights to the
road. But it certainly makes people mad.

Personally, I don't want critical mass to be a reflection of me. They do not
represent me. But their actions reflect on cyclists as a whole.

-Buck

> [vandalism] disguised as a protest/event.

If this be civil vandalism, let us make the most of it.

> a [nuisance], and critical mass does

Don't know about Oz, but here in California the only
significant problems seem to occur when some politician (da mayor
in SF, and some Asian SF supervisor whose name escapes me, Michael
something) decides to try to get some ink by insisting the cops
crack down, so they do, people get pushed around, feathers get
ruffled, tempers rise. Either that or the cops are just bored, so
they decide on their own to push people around.

> are, take off your hemp cycling [jersey],

Dude, more hemp and more Phish would make everything works
lots better.

Ride on,

Rico
Sackamenna (where it was only 101 degrees (38C) today, a break
from yesterday's 105 (40.5C))

> ...there is a big difference between
> protesting and disrupting.

Often there is not.

Protest doesn't need quotes around it. It is just that.

In other words, do whatever you want, just don't do anything
that might actually get people's attention.

Tough problem. Either they're just criminals who should be
busted, or their gripes are legitimate, in which case you'd want
to lend them a hand. Let us know which way you decide to go.

And you types wonder why guys like me yell at you and throw
things like our Silca mini pumps at you when you get in our
way when we are out training.

The trouble with your C.M. stuff is the motorist you tick off
will see a top level cyclist like me later and only think of the
damn hippie loser he saw in town, it won't register on him that
I'm riding a pro bike with CX-7 Look pedals and hollow pin
chain and wearing my team kit.

If you want to cycle without obsessing about auto traffic then
stay out of places bikes have no business being in, like the
business areas, retail areas, urban areas, etc. You can put the
bike on the roof rack and drive out to the good training roads.
Use the car for getting to work and shopping, cycling is only
about training and competing.

Fab! Long time no read. How are the new meds working out?

Only concern is my directeur sportif Giuseppe Martinelli
has me using probenicid as the masking agent, and we all
know that probenicid didn't do the trick for Stefano Garzelli
last year.

My point exactly, through disruptions like Friday nights, motorist know we
are here but 'tar us with the same brush' and believe we are just like the
circus freeks who disrupted their drive home.

Sure but fueling their ingnorace with this sought of behaviour is not the
answer, as I mentioned in the original post, groups like Bicycle
Victoria(http://www.bv.com.au/) do so much more for this cause through
education. Most municipalities in Australia employ specific trafic engineers
to work toward building better roads for shared modes of transport. This
move has in no way been swayed by the Critical Mass tactics, it has been
brought on by mature lobbying by concerned bicycle user groups.

SH, I notice that you completely ignored my original reply to your post.
I'll re-post for your benefit. Perhaps you'd care to read it this time:

might be interested to know that although BV does not endorse Critical Mass

>You riders want a society with out cars, its not going to happen, get

Since when? Protests are there to show politicians what the
alternative to doing nothing (or doing whatever they're doing) is..

PC

A protest makes a point without completely distrupting something else. When
critical mass gets involved, they cause big disruptions and only call it a
protest, thus the need for quotes. More often than not, they are out there
to act like dang fools. It's all the circus-wannabees that need a place and
time to show off their wares.

I find it hard to believe that you cannot distinguish between "getting
peoples' attention" and disrupting peoples lives to the point of making them
angry. Perhaps you think al Queda was just "getting peoples' attention" when
they took down the twin towers. An extreme example, perhaps, but maybe now
you get the point?

Once again you have difficulty seeing the line that you shouldn't cross.
People with legitimate gripes shouldn't engage in criminal behavior to make
their point. People who engage in criminal behavior don't represent my
values, thus they cannot accurately represent me.

I make my point by being a cyclist that flows with traffic. I provide input
to planners who are working on better biking facilities. I teach kids how to
ride, how to maintain, and how to use properly work with traffic. These are
all ways that I am making a difference. Not one of them causes a traffic
jam.

-Buck

> [disrupting] something else.

That's your definition. If the people of India, just to pick
one example, used your definition they'd still be British
subjects.

Not "just," but they did get people's attention rather well,
didn't they? And from their point of view it furthered their
cause dramatically. I'll bet the leaders understood pretty well
what the various factions around the globe would think. Maybe now
you get the point?

> Once again you have difficulty seeing the line

Should, shouldn't, could, couldn't. It would be nice if the
world were so black and white and simple. Some people see the
line quite clearly and make a conscious choice to cross it, fully
aware of the consequences. Welcome to the muddy world of law,
politics, and civil disobedience.

So no law could ever be wrong, could never be violated on
principle?

Good for you. Critical Mass, as much as you hate it, makes a
difference, too. Whether that difference is for the better in the
long run is quite debatable, imo. Again, I don't know about Oz,
but here in California the anger at the riders has been rather
confined in time space, while the consciousness raised appears to
be rather widespread.

I'm glad to see that you finally admit that CM could be doing more harm than
good. I would love to know where you get your data about the time and space
constraints of the anger against cyclists after a CM event and how
widespread the consciousness about cycling really is. Have you found a
survey or are you relying upon personal experience?

-Buck

So ... what "rights" are cyclists stomping on? Drivers have no rights.
That's why they pay licensing and registration fees, why traffic movement is
heavily regulated, why you can't drive until a given age, why your license
can be taken away at any time. CM riders are not stomping on any rights.
They are infringing on privelege. You saying CM is taking away rights is
like say public school kids are stomping on the rights of private school
brats. (Since public schools take away money and land and prestige that
COULD go to the private school.)

Get it straight what is a right and what is a privledge.

> For a start, you might want to get your facts straight. It was the BURNLEY

You were right it was the Burnley Tunnel.

Didnt critical mass provide press releases conveying what the group were
going to do and wasn't the organisations aim to disrupt peak hour traffic
through one of the main east exits from the city. Surely the RADIO JOCKS
comments and reaction was what was expected by the Critical Mass. The abuse
that followed is surely a result of the organisations actions.

Yeah because because the "radio jocks" had encouraged tunnel users to use
alternative exits. In regard to their conduct sure police were happy there
was no injuries or damage to public property

Sure our roads infrastructure handled this sought of traffic before the
tunnels were built. But your missing the point. Critical Mass's aim was to
inconvienience drivers, who yes were fired up by the media, who were fueled
by the CM press releases. Who then took it out on us.

OK but there were only 430 riders riding 3 km. If the CM numbers that have
been experienced in other parts of the had riden through the tunnel, traffic
could have been held up for 2 hours

This is fantastic and I applaude you for your commitment to these worth
while causes but why resort to the 1% of caos.

I have worked in sport and recreation planning and promotion for over 15
years. Sure I got paid for what I did but yes I have been involved in
developing programs for the development of cyclists and the sport of
cycling. My work in local government saw me work closely with BV and
Cyclesport Victoria. This wasnt a hobby it was my carreer.

Keep us all safe

SH

The only press releases put out were from the Police & CityLink. Critical
Mass NEVER puts out press releases. Not this time nor any time in the past.
Where did you get this info from?

The aim was to demonstrate in favour of sustainable transport, and to show
how much fun bikes can be. And there were no press releases (see above).

The largest ever CM ride in Melbourne was about 770 riders, so it would have
been silly to expect that there would be thousands flooding out of the
woodwork last Friday (especially on a cold & maybe rainy night). So the ride
was never going to require more than 45mins of tunnel closure.

"David Sutton" <da...@sutton.org> wrote in message
news:BB25C264.62A4%da...@sutton.org...

<snip>

Try the green Crayons instead...

sj

My vote goes to CM as just criminals.......... I hate the back lash I get on
my bike because of CM....
>
>

Very negative......it has set us back 50 years in public's appreatation of
the Bicycle.
>
>

Note the groups this person is posting to (including rec.bicycles). Trying
to start a flame war
perhaps?

--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
Where's the Weapons of Mass Destruction, Mr Bush

"Automator" <wee...@efn.org> wrote in message
news:bdnnhe$e7$1...@news.efn.org...

I was riding home from work on Friday night, 20km, and after a whole day
of moral outgrage in the media I noticed nothing different in motorists
attitudes to me. I was:

* Spat and screamed at by bogans in a Barina

* Squeeezed off the road by someone who resented me passing them three
times, so passed me and then ran their wheels into the kerb in front of me.

* Narrowly missed by a falcodore that shot through a giveway sign in my
path, motorist with phone against the ear.

* Terrorised by an RACV truck driver zig-zagging his way up Chapel St, I
thought at first he was deliberately trying to ram me into parked cars
-- no, he was reading the melways on the seat next to him.

* Blockaded by cars droving up the bike lane on Church st

* Blocked out by cars parked in the forward bike box at traffic lights

Yep, Friday evening, motorists were as well behaved as normal.

Went out for 30km ride on Saturday, not much difference, a couple of
stray dogs ran into my path, a couple of cars doing 80-90 along Yarra
Blvd in the 50 zone.

Didn't seem to be any difference in the attitude of the caring sharing
motorists.

Ha ha ha ha ha....

Oops.

How about "BV who promote cutesy lines of white paint where it won't
inconvenience motorists, foster the attitude that you need special lines
on the road to ride a bike there, and do sweet FA about the major
problem faced by cyclists -- the attitudes of Australia's motorists"

They also promote the attitude that the only safe way to ride a bike is
when you're in a group of 4,000, with months of planning, a police
escort, and a healthy entrance fee to BV.

> SH

Adrian

---------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Tritschler mailto:Adrian.T...@its.monash.edu.au
Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44
---------------------------------------------------------------

The only thng I missed out on was the term "moronic"

John L.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:38:51 GMT, jar...@nospam.com (Jarkko Altonen)
wrote:

>sco...@earthlink.net (ScottJL) wrote:
>
>>Critical Mass n. 1. Yet another excuse for irresponsible behavior.
>
>n 2. A collective noun for a "bunch of cunts".

Yes of course I'm a pedestrian - and so is 99% of the population.

I am also a cyclist and do about 140km/week.

And I'm even a motorist.

Doesn't really fit your little compartmentalised world does it?

So blocking a street so I can't walk across it is not stomping on my
rights?? Pure BS

What are you some kind of socialist or communist??? That is what it sounds
like......no wonder CM is a bunch of crap

I just did........you should look in the mirror and say that.........
>
>

So how come cars get away with it all the time, but a few
minutes per month of bikes doing it, and some ppl gotta
run around with their hair on fire about it?

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Good we are changing the subject........yes they are violating my right to
cross the street! It is a right!

Because they are not only blocking the crosswalk........the street and
others rights...... because they think they are promoting something for a
bicycle...... Wrong.. when I ride I still get the back lash of there
MC.........they do nothing to promote cycling or better thinks for all bike
riders....
They are civil disobedient........and are nothing but disruptors of peace.

Just a Cyclist wrote:

Oh come now. Has anyone ever given you a hard time because CM rides once in a
while? I ride my bike every day of the year <nearly> and CM does rides in
Vancouver, which is right next door to me. No one has ever given me any grief
at all because of the behaviour of CM.
How has it been for you? And where are you, by the by?
Bernie

Yeah, the way folks kow-tow to the Almighty Automobile truly sux the
big one. Every left-turn bay that adds width to intersections,
and every right-on-red rule, violates pedestrians' rights to cross
the street in a safe and timely manner.

Pedestrians really get the short & dirty end of the stick;
cars get sucked-up to, way more than they deserve.

Critical Mass is, at least in part, an human-powered uprising
against this unjust imbalance. And where unjust imbalances
occur, uprisings are inevitable. Y'don't like it? Boo hoo.
Critical Mass isn't just about vehicles, including bikes --
it's about /people/.

Is that the same compartmentalised mentality that classifies all
members of a particular movement that you personally don't agree with,
as "A bunch of cunts".

Love that Macho Man mentality, now I understand the nickname Jerko.

John L.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:26:06 GMT, jar...@nospam.com (Jarkko Altonen)
wrote:

>Yes of course I'm a pedestrian - and so is 99% of the population.

news:eu3rdb...@bud.garden.local...

Why would he be in such a state unless he'd been maimed by a car driver?

Chalo

No one is saying "eliminate ALL moror vehicles." I recommend you seek
balance. Balance in your use of polluting and greener technologies.
Try balancing your selfish indignation with reasoned argument, your
need to attempt clever posts with reading and comprehending the
thread.

speaking of balancing I'm still trying to reconcile driving my gas
guzzling and paid for SUV and commuting on my Lightning Phantom. Who
should I suck up to? The damn autos or the CM bas**rds?

Sounds good to me.

Let your own conscience be your guide. It'll know what to do,
regardless of what anyone else says.

Nobody.

cheers,
Tom

news:BB23D12F.597F%da...@sutton.org...

> >Melbourne domain tunnel, thanks a lot. As a competative cyclist I

> Tunnel, not the Domain Tunnel. And any increase in abuse which you

> moigyt be interested to know that although BV does not endorse Critical

> I think YOU should get over it. Car use is an environmental, health,
> resource use, land use and pollution issue. It's time people realised that
> our current addiction to cars is completely unsustainable. And if it takes
> CM to do it, then fine.
>
> CM is global, and we're not going away. Come along to a CM ride some time
> (last Friday of the month, 5.30pm, State Library) and experience the joy
of
> it all. You might even like it!
>

=v= How, exactly, do you justify this bizarre comparison?
<_Jym_>

P.S.: Followups trimmed to only the relevant newsgroups.

I just don't get the claim that a bunch of bicyclists can effectively block
people in big heavy cars, either the presence or lack of cops prevent that.
Every account of arrest I have seen has been cops hauling cyclists off to
jail for infractions they often don't bother to ticket drivers for.

Besides, how do you demonstrate nicely for bicycling? Ride around the Mega
Mall parking lot after it closes so you don't inconvenience anyone?

The really sad part is unless there is a chance of arrests, the media won't
cover it. I would suggest you bring lots of video cameras, piss off as many
drivers as possible without breaking the law, film them screaming at you, or
threatening you with their cars, and film the cops overstepping their
bounds.

Not that I would bother where I live. Maybe after another 15 years of bike
commuting, gas might be expensive enough to consider rallying the troops.

For now (to borrow the Army's slogan) I'm a Critical Mass of One. Back to
the garage to finish my fiberglass tailbox.

"Al Simon" <agks...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:s9mdnTM_lat...@comcast.com...

How does this help cyclists?

You get a reputation, sure, and coverage. As what? Provocative
assholes in traffic. You are creating road rage *on purpose*, and
bringing down upon yourselves PRECISELY the same behaviours which you
will complain or demonstrate about.

Yes, I am also a "CM of One" when I ride, but I'm not going to do
anything to gratuitously provoke motorists. Why give them any reason
to harrass otherwise law-abiding cyclists?

Riding in one large mass is fine, but needless provocation is
counterproductive.

-Luigi

If I were to hold a critical mass, my core motive would be to hand out info
telling people that the problem isn't bikes or cars, it is the thousands per
year per citizen our tax laws funnel away from society at large and give
just to those who aren't too young, old, handicapped or poor to drive. It
boggles my mind why the right wing isn't behind this. On the whole, it is
money taken from wealthier people to encourage poorer people to drive more.

Look at something as seemingly innocuous as school bussing. Imagine how our
cities would look today if for the last 100 years, education was socialized,
but transportation wasn't. Having to pay $1-4 a day to bus their kids would
have been a gigantic incentive to keep neighborhoods and schools connected
with side streets and paths. A kid could earn his allowance by biking to
school. They wouldn't be as fat and diabetic. Our streets would be safe
and convenient for cyclists, our laws protecting cyclists would be stronger
and better enforced.

Instead every kid's first lesson is transportation involves big motor
vehicles and it is "free". It gets worse every day as the promise of "free"
school bussing creates more and more dangerous and meandering sprawl.

"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6usie0drcflhm1pn9...@4ax.com...

This isn't what you advised. I quote:

>... I would suggest you bring lots of video cameras, piss off as many

That's provocation, and an incitement to provocation. So do you get
your jollies by winding up the cops and watching them beat up your
buddies?

As a cyclist, I don't like the guilt-by-association that I get because
of the antisocial and uncivilized behaviour of these yahoos. It
results in more ill-will towards me, and gives motorists justification
for their abuses.

-Luigi

In the house I grew up in, we lived across the street from a elementary
school (my Mom still lives there). There wasn't such a thing as school
buses in the inner city. Those were only used in the rural areas. Part
of what was a grass playground is now a parking lot and in the mornings
and afternoons, it's loaded with buses and cars of people picking
up/delivering their kids.

I assume it's the same at the middle school and high school..both of
which were about a mile away and we walked or rode bikes...only rarely
got a ride.

rr

If you believe in agitation, It is better to get video of a bunch of fun
loving, law abiding cyclists getting threatened by psycho motorists and
jacked by out of control cops than to get video of a bunch of asshole
cyclists breaking laws and getting what they deserve.

Nothing gives motorists justification to harass cyclists.

Speaking of which, the first thing we need to fix is the stereotype that all
cyclists belong to some kind of cult, so you can just pick one and get even
with something another one did. How many times have we heard the remark
"you cyclists run lights".

From the complete retards who ride the wrong way at night with no lights, to
the jerks who decide that every traffic rule and device only applies to
cars, they drive me nuts. But I only get mad at the latter.

news:rn4je0pjdppc31gcu...@4ax.com...

On the critical mass thing, I have never seen one. I have only read of the
ensuing police violence. I avoid violence, no matter who perpetrates it. I
have heard people say that cyclists block traffic at these events. Cyclists
are traffic. Now if cyclists are doing this just to add to the traffic, that
seems dumb.

And to many of you who cry "share the road": that's a concept that is open
to all kinds of personal interpretation, just like courtesy. How about we
all start by obeying the fucking law first! That seems like a necessary
prerequisite to any unwritten vague guidelines.

I would not be surprised if before I die I get rear ended by another cyclist
when I stop at a stop sign or light. I've hade close calls already. I have
even been yelled at afterwards. How dare I impede someone who is above the
law! I wonder how the case will be recieved in court. I have already been
T-boned (no offence GR) by a cyclist running a stop sign. I guess Ken Dubius
never thought he needed to stop, or that another cyclist might be coming on
the other road.

Right now it seems to me that a cyclist who obeys the law is a minority, and
even an outcast and many circles. People, please think about your conduct on
the road and consider what constructive improvements you could make in your
own behavior before you take to destructive behavior. If you ride with a
team jersey emblazoned with big sponsor logos, think even harder. Not only
can you embarrass the rest of us, but the people you piss off may be able to
read, and use a phone.

JV

"Robert Haston" <reha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<hlJGc.10648$yy1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

=v= Critical Mass rides have been happening monthly (and in
some places weekly) for the last 11 years, now spread to nearly
400 locations. Certainly the police riots and such make the
news, but consider how few of them there are given the thousands
of rides that have taken place.
<_Jym_>

I guess that's what happens when laws aren't enforced, people start using
their own judgment. Instead of everyone using the same somewhat ill fitting
laws, you have 40 million cyclists all operating under their own rules.

Back in the day, we instructed kids to drive their bikes like cars.
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/movies/movies.html

Unfortunately, the open street networks kids could safely cycle around in
have been replaced by pod developments dumping onto high speed
thoroughfares. Look at the old and new sections of any town; then count how
many cyclists and pedestrians you see.

That's what we get for "improving transportation" with 20 trillion or more
in automotive transport subsidies, such as "free" school bussing, "free"
parking, property, sales, and income taxes paying for auto and oil use. All
these have done is create a vicious cycle of more and more driving, less and
less walking and cycling, and fatter people. It may be that the biggest
hidden cost of auto subsidies is diabetes and cardiovascular disease. And
after a century of growing cities where driving gets a hidden 50% discount -
the oil runs out.

For example, imagine instead if:

Every school district in America tallied up its school bussing costs, then
gave this money to student's parents, but charged for school bussing.
Every employer gave employees a parking bonus, but charged for parking.
Every county deducted the cost of local roads and auto related police and
fire/rescue calls from property tax and raised gas taxes a quarter a gallon
to pay for it.

Your kid could bike to work and earn a few bucks a day in allowance. You
could take an alternative to solo driving and save several bucks or so in
parking and auto costs.

Its called capitalism.

"Jim Verheul" <jver...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:696dnZRGA-Q...@adelphia.com...

In article <Jym.wzfz8...@econet.org>,

Furthermore,
in the first post of this thread that appears in my newsreader's
rec.bicycles.misc listing (where Al Simon replies to and quotes
Dave Sutton,) Dave had given a number of press clippings which
indicate this particular CM ride in question was actually
sanctioned and overseen by the local police and other civic
authorities. The gist of the press clippings is: nothing
bad happened.

Chris Jordan
sunk in a tourist trap!

"Robert Haston" <reha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<2qeHc.12175$yy1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

Cycling has had a bad name since before the car was invented: get over it.

--
Robots don't kill people -- people kill people.
http://www.irobotmovie.com/

If there was ever a sentence that should follow "Wake up America!" it should
be "We aren't going to solve traffic congestion and sprawl by paying people
to drive.

You can throw your whole supply of red herrings into the net (America's
size, different attitude, etc.) but the only country that drives so much is
the one who sucks about 10% of the GNP out of the rest of its economy and
pumps it into driving and oil use - and then pretends it doesn't.

What amazes me is I haven't heard nigh a whimper about it from the right
wing. They are trying like mad to get their tax dollars back from poor moms
and schoolkids, but this kind of welfare is chump change compared to the
carfare that is paid for by the upper classes.

The depression era goal of a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage
has become a chicken in every pot, and a car, but not necessarily a garage
to put it in. I wonder if other societies have so many people homeless but
not carless and live in their cars.

"Christopher Jordan" <flash_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8a845efd.04070...@posting.google.com...