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Hello, greeting, lasting lawn drawn out salutations salutions
As performance enthusiast and college student, mileage, and reliability are top priority.
My focus is reliable daily drivers in the 3000lbs range using mostly OEM parts from any car
Introduction
We will use anything from a junkyard at low cost and use it the best we can, like OEM to maintain reliability
I used parts from Saab, volkswagon, bmw, honda, toyota, infinity, chevy, whatever can fill some need with OEM quality.
I will show how to build a car using mostly trash/free parts (perhaps stuff nobody wants) with high reliability and reasonable output
This Atari OEM LM7 5.3L game system has maybe 220,000 miles, free engine from Silverado/Tahoe/Escalade,
I put 40,000 miles on it so far.
Built using cast off junkyard parts, like relics of computer hardware used to play video games
Preface
Be aware I won't always capitalize , punctuate, or make sense sentenances or even use spell check. I feel the raw unfinished product including mistakes make for a realistic human imperfect picture and that is what we really are , nothing I say is copied or generated by anything other than my own imperfect brain.
I get majority of ideas from conceptualizations, not a parrot, as I must imagine what I am saying as if it was in front of me working or I may not be able to describe it.
mistakes and word definitions
I Like mistakes, It should still read easy and be understandable, even if I make a mistake, and maybe I meant both ways. I proof read and leave my mistakes if I like them. Like if somebody says to shake potato on salt, you know what they meant, I won't correct that type of mistake. Not everything is what it seems and my definitions for words could be used different than 'normal' for example the word differential and atomize. Differential can have multiple meanings and I feel that people online tend to throw it around without specifying which differential definition (I've rarely seen it used properly or suitably). I will never use challenging or misleading or potentially confusing engineering or computer jargon in an attempt to sound smart on the internet. The word differential can mean a difference, for example pressure differential gradient, a difference in pressure between two sections of pipe is a differential pressure. Alternatively, taking a differential could be used to differentiate the rate of change of a variable, possibly turning it to a constant or even zero. Or the word differential can imply that something is some rate of change and this applies a second differential as well and third and so forth may be in play. Or it could simply mean to tell a difference between things. There are many ways to use the words of math speak and I will never use them without explaining what I mean exactly, you won't find the word differential very often in my writing, if i Mean rate of change I will say rate of change. If I mean gradient of pressure I will say that.
Similarly, The word atomize is often used to describe the spray of a water/meth injection nozzle or fuel injector, and this is another potential for miscommunication in a word that I would not use the same way as everybody else. To me, atomize is to turn something into atoms. Which clearly we are not breaking water H2O molecules into individual H's and O's, for the most part as an water injection nozzle isn't performing a significant chemical or nuclear reaction. Furthermore, if we jump the obvious misimplication of atoms and say 'we meant molecules' consider that individual water molecules are a gas state. In other words if we completely 'molecularize' a water spray via nozzle then the water has already become a gas. Gas state water cannot evaporate and the energy contained within water's evaporative heat removal capacity is only available during an evaporation event. Thus 'atomization' even in it's popular terminology isn't as desirable a feature in water spray nozzles used in forced induction applications as many make it seem. What we really want is for water to be a mostly liquid state and enter the cylinder before tuning into a gas. Liquid takes up far less space than a gas, when water evaporates outside of the cylinder it will take up roughly the same volumetric space as fuel molecules and nitrogen/oxygen molecules due to classical gas law, reducing air density. Thus not only does water reduce air density which will reduce power, it also needs to evaporate in the cylinder to take energy out of the cylinder via evaporation to protect engine parts inside the cylinder. The main point of water injection is it's ability to remove energy from a cylinder, preventing detonation and limiting thermal expansion of parts, especially OEM brittle fracture failure style pistons. I elaborate on these issues and others involving energetics eventually elsewhere (Example: Intercoolers absorb power and reduce power, while most tend to think they add power) &c
Now you see I will use words carefully and if something seems wrong or like a mistake, its probably because I'm using my definition for a word instead of what you are used to seeing, I want you to disagree: I want you to disagree and confront the questions yourself. It is much more powerful learning for a student when the teaching asks questions to lead them there than just giving the answers for parrot or protocol. As a teaching assistant for engineering/chemistry/biology and I find this tactic is generally effective in a live environment especially with many students learning at the same time.
This thread is more of a log of results than a traditional build thread. It's a brief summary of what engine belongs in the 240sx and why I was forced to use an LS engine instead. Any cheap engine will work using these techniques: This is not just an LS swap thread. Its a how to build a car thread using any engine/parts and how to determine their usefulness to some extent, then I test their abilities my own way and report findings. I won't post much pics of parts sitting or arrived from mail or anything like that, only when I finish a component of the car I will then create results content for that issue and move on to something else as I go along every single issue I face in building the car start to finish. Please keep in mind that most of my parts are either free or donated, and I only take what I minimum need as I manage this hobby by trading my tuning/computer ability for parts as needed with friends in the business for decades.
I pretty much detail every step for myself to remember what I did (My memory isn't great) anyways. I'll try to mostly explain with examples. It's the ideas you can imagine and not the methods that matter. YOUR engines or parts might need a totally different method than mine, but the way I approach each problem can guide you how to find that new method, or *cringe* differentiate between good and bad procedure. Also I should clarify something- at many points throughout this thread I will use the term novice. I always consider myself a novice in everything I do, no matter how many times I've done it. Approach the issue as if it's your first time, even if you've done it a thousand times already. This is an effort in effect to attempt to gain the results of an experienced professional even on the first time doing anything. This technique is necessary to achieve 'mastery' over some process that we don't make a silly mistake by making an erroneous assumption, autonomous response or by missing something simple, especially in a calculation. This method I've adopted from years of teaching mathematics, as a math and chemistry tutor for 10 years one of the important aspects of starting any question no matter how routine is to consider it as if it's the first time you've ever done it and form fresh thoughts and procedures for it no matter how rote, as you may find new interesting ways to tackle previously well studied problems. It seems a process of solving new math trains the brain to perform calculations with other never seen before equations whereas if we rely on memory heuristics its very easy to make a mistake or miss a critical step and there is very little learning involved because it came from memory instead of thought, quite.
We will build the trans and tune the engine/trans to work properly and I provide tune files and data log explaining how to tune the engine gen3 4.8/5.3/6.0 and 4l80e, my own methods and unlike anything you will likely see or hear from anywhere else. The car has been built for a while and has a bunch of mileage (approaching 50,000 miles so far as I write this) I can assure everything continues to function properly for high mileage (the start of high mileage) and maintain such a finalized outcome and file.
Here are some recent posts that contain my recent file and some logs and tuning details for my method. Eventually I will hopefully just make a video because its too many words to type (I hope you love reading though) https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post686802
The Topic of cast piston engine conservation available for review here, its how I see the subject (my opinion).
We will Follow these rules for any brittle fracture failure piston engine, whether SR, RB, 2J, or LS. https://www.theturboforums.com/threa.../#post-2050290
Air filtration, indepth discussion for PCV and crankcase evacuation efforts, and turbocharger ferrous materials passive/active maintenance. The idea of oil as a protective feature in sufficient quantity to put a smile on your face during an inspection. https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-13980010
I came late to the LS game but my methods are unique and probably unlike anything you've seen before, much of what I will do is my own cultivated theory, I am a scientist at heart and come up with my own ideas about how things work or should work and implement as such. I can tune any engine, I've previously tuned many turbo 1.8L, 2.0L, 2.4L, 2.5L, 2.6L, 3.0L etc... I started out doing it for free and then volunteered at a shop where we built a hundred cars over a few years and I got to see and tune almost every JDM engine ever made. Probably not really but it feels that way because... I've used every kind of stand-alone even the ones I never used because I understand enough about computers and engines to simply read what it says and know how it works, whatever it is. I am not bragging, I think older combustion engines are extremely basic and simple to understand, and the electronics that control them are simple enough for me to grasp in concept from board to behavior. My true passion is cancer research and I hope you will understand when I say that human cells are for more complicated than combustion engines. That is how I am unashamed to admit I am good with combustion tuning- the sheer step up in complexity of working with human cells is overwhelming and humbling enough that I feel ultra confident with something as simple as an engine or transmission. I mean, they come with a service manual, I wish our cells came with manuals.
in 2003 able to developed an auto tuning software for holley stand-alone computer. no H This was back before widebands were available affordably at hobby level. Programming is a hobby just like vehicles for me, the two inevitably function together.
I advise in order to appreciate EFI tuning you also learn some computer programming language, any one of them. They are all essentially the same idea, a line of code with instructions or calculations that leads to a next line or procedure.
It will help you think like a computer. Someone once told me that the best engineer is lazy because they will develop automatic tasks for a computer to do instead of having to do it themselves and tuning is a no brainer. Holley now offers a finalize version of what I started out making, it compares wideband history with current fuel cell values and shoots for a target. Pretty obvious if you think about it, but not all ECU have this ability, It's almost like programmer are rarely tuners, or maybe they are such great tuners they realize there is no need for such a feature. Which I agree with, VE tuning is the easiest tuning of all and there is no need for an auto-tuning feature. Nevertheless it is an incredibly useful crutch for lazy tuning. Many ecu like OEM ECU and power FC and for a long time AEM and Haltech lacked auto-tuning which was worth using. I was moved to create my own versions of auto-tuners in search of this function using Visual Basic 6.0 https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...der-950-a.html
At sixteen I was A+ certified computer technician working for Compusa and ditching classes to build a small block chevrolet and hang out at horsepower sales. I started by tuning various carbs/distributors in 1995+ which taught me how to tune engines, I just took that and applied it to EFI successfully for the most part and adjusted as needed to take advantage of the power of EFI.
I always advise newbs learn to tune a carb and distributor before attempting EFI tuning. Otherwise you really have no basis or fundamental theory to help understand how an engine works as a mechanical device... Remember they are able to run without any computer electronics at all. Control theory was being developed long before computers came onto the scene.
Goal is to learn about vehicles, and through that knowledge build and maintain reliable transportation, be they boats or trucks, while hoping to apply all level of electronics/microprocessor and fluid mechanic/dynamics as a novice and keeping as simple as possible. Focus longevity. We shall potentially be finding use in junkyard / cast off parts from any other vehicles and gaining access to their programming to as a novice & culminate with a fully functioning transplanted powerplant in a random vehicle chassis (the LS Swap into a Nissan for example) for high mileage.
The emphasis is comfort, low cost and free parts, reliability. Any power offered is just a bonus.
Since its a 240 I'll get to use some 'famous' parts like the Q45 1992 differential w/ 32-spline axles is a junkyard part which can service high torque application with no modification whatsoever, and the 4l80e which is a well known transmission, simple to build and operate. Thus being able to keep track of what parts from what cars and how useful they are will come into play as part of an effort to organize the highly useful junkyard parts type "AUSP" (Actually Useful Scrapyard Parts) of list should you choose to make one for your application. I often explain in a general sense, not only always focusing on my particular engine, to make comparisons for any engine so no matter what engine you can still use the information flow here
Feel free to use any acceptable (personal) performance metrics with which to gauge their performance and economy and so forth as we move forward here are mine...
Kingtal0n's metric of whats a fast reliable cheap car
a couple basic rwd benchmark cars to 'beat' (make it superior to this, or else I would just build this)
Random Nissan type Silvia (or 240sx) with 350-400rwhp dynojet/2800lbs/33mpg is a typical config for this kind of car Sunset metallic
The 240sx is so easy, we will pull the engine in a single day, then the insanely good painter I've ever seen Jason will cover and paint the car, and we put it back together literally a day later into a finished running driving car. Maybe let it dry over night or two and yeah the paint is soft but you put that engine back in easy the next day, carefully, and it runs again. It was a moment in my life that I realized you could actually completely dismantle an entire vehicle, cover it with all necessary paper protections and paint it right there all once basically driving like nothing happened 2 days later with a completely different drivetrain, an sr20det in this case. I never looked at engine swaps this way before, now it makes the most sense to have everything you need and do it all at once in a single move, quick as possible, swap and done.
What sr20det capable of doing with basic journal old school T04E 50 trim and 60 trim on a dynojet is next: Dyno runs and sr20 turbo comparison (build and comments are also in same directory) http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread...s-Brian-Crower
Its called the Bear Necessities The basic sr20det swap a balance of weight and power
The sr20 engine orientation allows for easy access to plugs, maintenance.
Shown here, the fan shroud is a mock unit, previously damaged, pulls out in 5 seconds, only for show.
In other words, It is very easy to access the front of an SR engine while also covering it up and directing airflow with duct work
The effect is striking- the installation appears "above average" and yet is simply an factory sr20det engine with broken fan shroud.
I spent 7 pages pulling this white car apart and rebuilding it to what you see above
Sorry the links down probably forever. Its about 50 hours of details, everything is backed up but I don't have the time to re-create at the moment, The pics are all still there in photobucket so anybody can search them sr20det trans rebuild http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread...ld-DIY-Thread-! rebuild thread http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread...ir-and-Restore
I'll restore these eveeeentually. I have thousands of photos I just don't want to dump them here. The LS swap was a choice I don't take lightly, the base philosophy behind an LS swap IMO is to transform an antique vehicle into a proper reliable daily drivable transportation. That will be my goal of this thread to convey the knowledge how to make practical decisions to reach this goal for any drivetrain.
This part is compare the sr20det to LS a little bit
There are a few other JDM engines worthy of 240sx swap but I'd rather compare and contrast them somewhere else. I think the sr20det is the best example car "to beat" for the 240sx because it originally came in these cars in Japan, that is, sr20 is the original engine for Nissan Silvia which shares the chassis of 240sx. The SR is the true original engine- If I say "the 240sx has an original engine" what I mean is it has the engine that was originally intended for the chassis as the car comes in Japan, the sr20det.
By the same token, the chassis is identical to the Silvia so every part will interchange.
There are so many cool things that attach to these cars made in Japan, I've never seen anything like it.
It's going to be difficult to top a Japanese engine config (in terms of visual cleanliness) with many home made and junkyard materials in a chassis that the LS engine doesn't originally belong...
Or does it? https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ce-inside.html
Four corner weights show that Nissan (perhaps by accident) intended the 240 to house a V8 platform, it appears to be as well balanced with the right LS swap than any of it's original 4-cylinder, and also starts out as robust differential/brakes as if for much heavier cars with independent rear suspension.
The 240sx seems more well balanced with the right LS config than a 2jz-gte or RB engine.
I've heard that the sr20det weighs around the LM4/L33 style aluminum LS engine which gives an interesting option as it shaves 120lbs off the iron block. The torque will make up for
diagrams such as combined alternator drill/install, torque specs unified table, ecu home testing, oil pump O-ring selection, torque angle for balancer, oil pan approach, and so forth, are initially created in the thread so there is less/fewer pictures overall and more information gleaned per time spent. I am doing my best to save time and occasionally prune unnecessary details over time as well.
I share whatever I've learned specifically about the LS series as a new comer to the scene (things you wouldn't know unless you've acquired and maintained an LS engine for years) as I discover them, and the (how to) application of general mechanicaland electricalknowledge topreviously never seen before components to achieve a high success rateas a novice.
I've never owned an LS engine before, this will be my first and only for a long time, (besides one I get for free and use some parts off of along the way) and I will use the basic knowledge applied to all internal combustion engines whether SR20, 2jz, rb, or LS you can use the service manual info and experience/technical skills to assemble a working, reliable, daily driver with considerable output. Basically we are going to treat the LS engine like a SR RB or 2J engine, assume it comes factory turbo and utilize this concept to build a successful oil crankcase control evacuation system where every molecule of crankcase oil ejected is accounted for and scheduled during specific operating conditions with adequate PCV flow to maintain clean engine oil so that I can actually go 3,000 mile oil change intervals in a daily driver. In other words I will re-establish an OEM PCV system target crankcase pressures for the 5.3L turbo exactly like the sr20/rb/2j engines have from the factory using their style of setup, we target 0.5" to 1.5" Hg usually but I will try for at least 2.5" Hg with this setup after a while.
Update here is Measuring the crankcase pressure and how-to video
This 1-bar map in the video works from 0.6v to 4.55v which expressed around 14.9psi total pressure range with barometric being set to 4.33v at what I assume is near me 14.53psi sea level. I am just approximating these values to make a quick calculation of what sort of pressure drop we see in the video. During wot with filter attached was around 4.23v, the difference 4.33 and 4.23 is about a tenth of a volt.
14.9psi / 4.54v = 3.2819 psi per volt
3.2819 / 10 = .328psi per every tenth of bolt
-Keep in mind the sensor is very unlikely to be linear so I am probably encouraging an error large enough to make this calculation somewhat useless- which is why the sensor needs to be test empirically using a sensitive gauge which reads inches of water, I might get one to show it (punctuation.... nope!) yes it would have been less work to just make the little dot ---> . <---- happy
to continue, if we say 0.328psi of pressure drop per tenth of volt that is 0.66" Hg which is perfectly within our target range of 0.5" to 1.5" baseline WOT pressure. With the previous filter I'm pretty sure I saw 3.95v at one point so almost 4 tenths of a volt, or 3.8 * .328psi which is 1.24psi or 2.5" Hg of pressure drop, which I feel is perfect to protect the engine fully. A drop of 2.5" Hg is far superior to 0.65" Hg in terms of oil protection, it will be my future target, I suspect once my new air filter gets some mileage on it (just like any air filter in general) that the pressure drop will gradually approach 1" to 2" Hg, it may take 5k miles however. The old filter was all beat to shreds though and it was replaced with a superior filtration capability filter which is why I took the opportunity to re-measure my crankcase pressure drop at WOT- but larger filter and still being brand new flows very well at first for that video.
The more power an engine makes the more taxing on the filter and more pressure drop will incur, so that is always a factor, I Was only running around 440rwhp and I can turn up to 600rwhp with traction. If I take the car to highway and produce a very long 3rd gear pull it would probably pull another inch of mercury at higher output, even with the fresh new filter. Especially once it gets around 5000 to 10000miles on the filter I think it will go near 1.5" to 2.0" Hg. Filtration and PCVpressure drop tuning is one of the secrets to engine longevity. I consider it a tuning aspect, we set fuel pressure, tire pressure, boost pressure, oil pressure, coolant pressure, etc... all the pressures around the vehicle have to be set within a specific range, and PCV crankcase pressure target is NO different. It is the most important pressure after oil pressure and in fact plays a role with oil pressure performance, it is critical aspect of learning to care for an engine and MUST NOT BE OVERLOOKED if you actually want to achieve a high mileage from an engine.
As I said It is extremely important to meet some inches of Hg target in the crankcase, a secret of longevity and performance. Without this simple feature an engine will not remain healthy easily. If you keep the crankcase air very clean and pure filtered, the engine can essentially last forever in theory. It sounds crazy but... what really causes failure? Think about that. If there is any significant debris in the engine oil, the engine is at an immediately major risk- it will not last long, not even 1000 miles let alone 200k with some trash in the oil or active metal wearing away. A healthy engine leaves very very very little metal and debris in the engine oil between change intervals. Internal engine parts are designed to basically never touch- that is the job and point of using oil between parts, keep them from touching, ever. Yes items as oil pump, chain drives, gaskets, etc... wear out over time but those are maintenance items. Its the bearings inside and associated oil interface parts supplied with pressurized or lubricative films that are never supposed to touch and have the potential to achieve unlimited mileage if they never do. Startup wear, oil accumulators & starting oil film quality/supply is a major part of ongoing wear, general operation while running is supposed to be practically touchless. In other words if the engine never shuts off it can achieve a higher mileage more easily (think truck engines delivering a million miles away) Have combustion engines been able to reach 200k frequently? 500k? 1,000,000 miles? Of course they can, and those are just the basic OEM systems with the cheapest paper filter possible at varying layers of maintenance and attention. Imagine if you actually cared more and used a superior to OEM quality filtration system and tuned the engine custom using a superior to OEM tune quality and change the oil more often than a typical owner. The engine should last longer than OEM!
Believe it
This thread is meant for educational purposes helping others to start caring for their own vehicles, I provide personal experienced approaches and a logging/journalist the fitness of car and caretaker process in search of ultimate reliability and economy, while providing a foundation of underlying reasoning which allows an individual even as a novice to avoid many common mistakes. Always detail & study failures, causes, solutions, mistakes.
This is a hobby which promotes varied traits such as hand fitness and technical knowledge, keeping tools, cleanliness, organizational skills, focus, results. Desired end product. I am not a mechanic - I just like to inquire performance from everything around me, myself included, and try not to overdo it
Forward (little history & background)
**this is a summary, I am leaving out a thousand pictures and details**
The 240sx with an properly cared for and tuned stock bottom end (the term SBE is commonly thrown around) sr20det 2.0L will go easily 240,000+ miles reliably and 11's in the 1/4 mile with 2.1~ second (bad) 60' foot, around ~360dynojet rwhp (much lower than the SBE limit), and achieve around 30mpg, with 33mpg at 2800lbs using the FS5W71C (original 5-speed) transmission being standard for fresh OEM slightly worked over engines (a mostly stock engine re-built using high performance techniques to make minute improvements in every category. e.g. porting, surface finish change, additional coatings of ports/piston/rings/bearings/etc, and altering oil pump flow and shape of orifices, improved pcv suction and oil control, balance, etc...). The transmission is also well known with fully supported rebuild kits still available along with a few improvements such as updated 5th gear fork revision (stronger) upgrade for example.
From 2005-2009 there were countless supply of 1.8 to 3.0L turbocharged 'mini monsters' available with relatively low mileage (50,000-75,000 miles was a common JDM hallmark). As the JDM swap became extremely popular in America it was easy to find replacement parts and aftermarket supply has only increased, making it easy to maintain and repair.
Japanese engines, such as RB and 2J series, and many other 90's and early 00's era turbocharged JDM variants arrived here in America and were similarly well received.
In general terms, these Japanese engines were not available in America to the general public. The only one I know of that got a USA turbo version was 2jz-gte in MKIV Supra.
In my mind, that car, AND engine remains legendary to the world of auto enthusiasts, nobody can argue that. I could fill many pages showing how superior the 2jz is to almost anything made before ~2012, and still is a legacy artifact
These motors were introduced to me as a prestigious niche where, if you had never heard of a Skyline or Silvia in 1999 ( I hadn't), you were probably used to seeing 4-cylinders as completely gutless with around 140-200hp as opposed to the 250-450hp JDM versions tend to offer and no clue they even existed until one mopped you up. At the time I had a Camaro 355cid w/ roots blower and then shortly turbo. I went for a ride in my friend Finn's 1995 nissan 240sx with 1995 sr20det blacktop T-28 (approx 240rwhp)... and it absolutely blew my mind. This car must have 400hp! I thought, midst long lost classic HKS SSQV. The idea or object of 'turbocharger' was only just barely recognizable to me at the time, the sound and rush was completely new and instantly addicting as many have noticed.
The 240sx really felt like it flew, and had all of the aesthetic appeal of both a performance car and daily driver (it could be either, as my friend put it "always a question mark")
He laughed and calmly explained that his car merely weighs 1000lbs less than typical chevy V8 units (Chevelle,Camaro, old fashioned lookers that can also be finely tuned racing robot), "Reduced weight improves everything: braking, handling, acceleration, economy" he said.
I was forced to digest that his car got 5 more miles per gallon than mine, out handles, out brakes, and out accelerates, and has less power.
The stock 2L sr20 engine as it comes (OEM turbo) from Japan will put a 240sx into the 12's with a good tire with just 250rwhp.
remember this was 1999, widebands were just barely beginning to trickle into general hobbyist level use and 12 seconds was kind of fast. I was just learning to tune my first super leaky 2-piece terrible rear seal turbo V8 couple weeks later with a stand-alone computer and all we have are narrowband sensor and plug reading to tune by. Here is a datalog I found from over twenty years ago on one of the first stand-alones available, commander 950 holley, on a 2-piece rear seal flat tappet cammed 355 twin turbo
And the sr20 engine came already turbo, oem tuned for 12-15psi, and it didn't leak. Didn't even need a wideband to get started driving immediately reliably.
It might not be the 'best' 2L 4-cylinder in the world. I think 4g63 at least here in America holds that title tenuously just based on research, if for no other reason than the availability of reliable fully built species. But its probably the second best 86x86 4-punch and because it's natural orientation is RWD it holds a creates a very high "bar" or position among small displacement rear wheel drive performance cars in general. For example in 1989 the 5.0L Camaro has around 200hp while the 2.0L SR20 from 1989 also makes 205hp in a car 1000lbs lighter, given they were produced in the same year to keep it a fair comparison there is no question which vehicle is superior in handling, braking, acceleration, economy, and this remains a trend from 1989, Nissan & Toyota are ahead, until the end of production of the 2jz/rb/sr20 in 2002 the point at which LS finally caught up to the Japanese designs(coincidence?) in terms of sealing/gasket systems, main girdle support, individual coil & powerful electronics for robust sequential EFI and trigger system, metallurgy and machining tolerance got tight enough for 5W-30 style engine oils and a reliability of 200 to 400k, oil system stability, etc... In a way, I think of the LS 4.8L model as a couple stroked sr20det engines tied together, they share similar girdle support, piston material, and seal design from the factory. And a V8 is just two 4-cylinder engines tied together, isn't it?
You didn't need a wideband or any tuning to run low 12's the next day with a stock SR engine, something that in 1999 was quite impressive for a daily driver 4-cylinder 30mpg car regardless of whether tuning was involved or not.
where do i sign
The sunset metallic 240sx in the first picture at the top is 33mpg thanks to 9:1 compression ratio and lighter than stock drivetrain parts, cruising 60-70mph with a typical 3.9:1 rear gear and 26.5" tall tire.
Everyone including me in one way or the other has copied this build multiple times by now, its a 'cookie cutter' because 'everyone' knows the parts required to do the swap in a single day by now or should be able to easily find out. And most of them are available with fast shipping in today's world already. You can almost wake up, buy a car today, and have it swapped running driving tomorrow pretty much, with one of the quality Japanese variants.
lets talk a little about the sr20det capability
I feel the factory sr20 8.5:1 rwd engine is fairly reliable up to about 49lb/minwith the right fuel,
that is, ~450rwhp minimumis an assumption for SBE SR20 engine if the owner knows how to tune it properly and set one up
Remember that (write it down ... ) because it will come up alot as a benchmark of what a 4-cylinder should be able to do regularly
It sounds like a great deal but it's 2017 and sr20 engines (95-02) are getting hard to find in good shape and low miles, or have very high price. Probably would need to rebuild one for best results. This could get even more "expensive" and risky (Who wouldn't be tempted to perform... *cough* internal upgrades). An sr20 engine even just a plain stock unit costs around five to seven times more than equivalent mileage LS 4.8/5.3/6.0 variety. By using the LS engine in a 240sx you are reducing the cost of failure or risk element of using an factory engine at triple standard power, by five to seven times.
As a daily driver it would be a challenge to rely on something that you did not machine yourself and on the third engine after learning from the first two, or more. Also, forget about going high as 70lb/min(~630rwhp) from 2.0L as a daily driver without forged parts and lengthy process machine work, personally selecting piston/wall and expansion coefficient & you own the dial bore gauge and deck plate, with thorough investigation of every minute details which are far too many to mention. And then there is the transmission to also worry about, how many parts at 550ft*lbs of torque need to break and be replaced? At 2L a very beefy transmission could be tiresome and sap all the fun energy out of the lightweight 122cid engine.
The basic included trans or variations of it is ideal because of the low rotating weight & friction for economical cruise and feels natural behind the engine it comes with. It doesn't handle big torque or serious launch, its for mild driving and perhaps high speed gear changing/racing where there isn't much sudden twist or enormous torque, although this depends on driver skill I suppose. Meaning if you have an sr20 with factory transmission & a twin plate at 500rwhp living successfully through many seasons of 'racing' (aggressive driving styles, some drifting), I would think they are a very competent driver. On the other hand, sometimes a race demands that parts be abused and you just replace it after a race. So it depends whether you are 'racing' for competition or just for fun and trying to reduce maintenance time/cost associated with owning a vehicle with such prestigious high demand parts. In other words, I would totally rock a twin plate in a daily, just make it light enough to push easily and it won't be a problem, it might last forever (outlast the car).
...
Part of the allure of an sr20 is using the factory engine/trans and doing the swap in a single day. 250-450hp the next day, done, driving ~30mpg or better, in a reliable car. But they seem to have gotten so prestigious that, just like the RB/2J has always been, is now out of the range of college budget in terms of reliability (it costs too much to replace one, even a factory unit) regardless whether you wanted to surpass the roughly 450rwhp limitation of the stock bottom end and drive the car every single day, 13,000miles/year. to be continued wayyy below
I Split this into sections
some little advice:
Get organized, teach yourself that it is impossible to remember everything. Instead, write things down immediately and then forget them. IMO one of the most important abilities we have as humans is to be able to forget and neglect negligible information, and I recommend using this ability to absolute maximum in order to conserve and organize your own internal thinking 'space' by freeing it from external concerns which are now safely, conveniently written down. Work mostly from short term memory and it will help you sleep easier (feel more rested from less sleep) in my opinion because there will be less commitment required of the day's activities to long term storage.
make a book/log and constantly make lists. I posted some lists that evolved somewhere, to show this process in action
I enjoy planning, designing, the process of building... always thinking of how to solve each riddle.
Keep a natural tendency to pursue a higher/more well finished product, regardless of what stage the build is in. There is no such thing as 'done', almost anything can be improved.
The build
Car must be Puzzle of parts with torque sequences, deformation qualifications and cleanliness constraints.
The 240sx engine bay layout
This is for transmission 4l80e, logic, and wiring information that I will eventually find an appropriate section for, but for now:
Zenki 1996 Nissan S14 240sx chassis
I looked in craigslist all over my area and there was only 1 240sx for sale, and it had everything wrong with it almost.
You can't find these cars anymore. And if you do, its always over priced, double or triple original value.
Couldn't even drive it because blown engine and two different size tires on front. Sunroof leaked, door lock felt terrible, dash was worse than anything I'd ever seen even by 240 standards, melted crayon on the rear tray which is still there, and auto
it was purrfect
Luckily, 240sx don't rust easily and are very simple.
Because they are light, RWD, independent rear suspension, and especially when they are automatic, as long as there were no accidents for the last 20 years or so (the true value when buying a 240sx is being able to verify somehow that there was NEVER any accidents i.e. it still has original windshield glass, original seam glue in the trunk and by the fender wells, engine bay, vin tags etc...), the chassis is guaranteed to be straight and that the car will roll along nice and smooth at high speeds
For all a 240sx's imperfections, most of them can be fixed with little effort and what is leftover will be smooth, sleek and silent, pristine suspension lines are frequently observed in 20+ year old species.
I wrote one small article for buying a 240sx here, there are other similar species rotating on various Nissan forums:
It takes about an hour to remove stock motor out of a 240sx, then after a wash you get:
acquired the car with blown engine around 2-15-17. I had seen my first LS engine in person in a junkyard on 1-23-17.
-the car running, driving and 100 miles on it by 5-23-17
I started Feb and was driving a little by May, just 3 months by myself with no air and no lift, just hand tools working over grass and dirt outside day and night non stop.
this is reasonable pace for one person doing it themselves = ~4-6 months without a lift or air, 1 person
I would say is more than adequate if you have everything.
Because scanning is done in time domain it is easy to calculate acceleration over time and determine if performance is improving.
Hopefully by 2020~ I will have dynojet data at least but right now I am lucky to eat eggs and rice.
Update: dynojet 500rwhp result: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1601746168
so far much more concerned with steady state temperatures in hot climates (fluids staying cool when its hot outside) and taking care of any leaks or long term maintenance issues than all out performance just yet because those systems will interplay with the robustness and continuation of high output.
'Build thread' starts here:
Lets start on 1-23-17
I went to the junkyard to scope out my first LSx engine (I had never really "looked" at one before in person as of 2016, you know how sometimes you see something but don't really SEE it until later when it suddenly becomes important for some reason) and looked at a bunch of crashed trucks. Some ripped open well enough for me to poke around and get a mental picture of the sheer size involved.
The following link shows my adventure to the junkyard and learning about the LS platform, questions I have as a first timer who suddenly developed an interest in LS engines overnight. Luckily I'm like the last person to do this so pretty much everyone on the internet already knows everything. If your application is also old garbage then it should similarly be well known. However I also know intuitively certain things about forced induction and was able to identify the good vs bad advice. You can't trust everything you read without thinking about it carefully. I made this thread for posterity sake, because I Knew I was going to have great success with my first engine and that it would be impossible to convince anybody that I had never seen an LS engine before. So it just flows out naturally from this point. https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1858105-went-junkyard-scope-out-my-first-lsx-details.htmlExcited,
I wound up buying one 5.3L from ebay, I liked the idea of having one shipped to the door, because I don't have a truck to pick one up from a yard myself. I didn't want to bother anybody to have to go with me to get an engine somewhere even though I found some local deals that looked promising.
but it was poor compression on one cylinder, and very rusty. So they gave me 100% refund, plus I get to keep the engine free! And then I went to the next source: car-part.com
Within a day a local JY had delivered an engine to me
It had a little low compression also from sitting. Little did I know it was probably the best engine to use, but this was my first time so I made a mistake right here and kept looking for 'the right engine' even though this one was likely fine, They brought another one and it too was just, not what I am used to getting from Japanese scrapyards.
I decided to go to the JY myself in homestead to check out their other engines.
and wound up walking around in sun, compression tested about 10 engines looking for one with decent compression.
I did manage to find one, don't know what vehicle it came from though. Mystery engines, love em. Probably the only guy to ever wander their facility in noontime sunlight for hours with a battery, starter, compression tester, engine oil, plug socket, going from engine to engine removing 8 plugs, installing the starter, tester, check/add oil, most had oil and apparently it doesn't matter at all the engine can't seem to pick up enough volume during a compression test to move oil anywhere near the insides of the motor. Spin the motor, test each cylinder. The heat on the surface of the metal containers I went into each are housing maybe 20 engines per was visible. At first they said they only had maybe 5 engines but I started wandering around 5 turned into 15. If you are willing to work for it, you can have it, I always believe that.
It's a lost art he said as I left. If I knew what I know now I would have just kept the first engine they delivered, it was probably absolutely fine. They had really tried to give me their best engine the first time around, I realize this now more fully. On the other hand, the engine I did get had the best compression of all. It was the worst looking engine though, like the one nobody wanted, they didn't even know they had. Funny how that works.
"What I know now" is that I never want to mess with broken exhaust studs again so the heads will come off the minute I pick up an engine if one breaks anyways, which means (lesson#1)low compression due to valve sealing is not an undesirable trait in used engines. Since the heads are coming off anyways you can inspect the pistons/cylinders and verify immediately by putting on the new heads that compression is good on all cylinders within the first couple days of having the engine (so the scrapyard will warranty it for you, this is traditional warranty period from all scrapyards and engine suppliers usually a 30 days guarantee).
This is all if you do not have a spare engine already prepped and ready to go (the key point of college budget daily drivers is the basically endless supply of free spare engines at 4.8/5.3L), if you just buy one motor at a time it can still be done quickly but it adds days instead of just being done with engine swap in hours. The 'swap' fab work being done, now its as easy as an sr20det coming in and out with the LS. Build part is done.
The heart of this build, for performance enthusiasts attending college, is based in the nearly free engines that are available, and yards will even deliver to the door step. Once everything is in place, and easy to remove (no difficult bolts), easy engine swap is easy, core support and vbands fly out of the bay, motor will come out in around 2-5 hours depending upon the occasion, can be driving again in a day. It hasn't needed to come out since its been driving even once yet so I don't know how long it will take average to pull. Maybe I just leave it alone and never take it out. "don't fix if its not broken" 5.3L gen3 02-04 , this is one of the cleaner engines the scrapyard sent that I didn't use
I wasn't sure where to get a 4l80e for my first one, so Ebay again, I've been an Ebay seller for 15 years 1k feedback just messing around, so I know it inside and out.
The legendary 4l80e trans I received looks too good to be true.
Engine harness in hand, I started wiring, following mostly LT1swap.com's wiring diagrams (great site and helpful owner)
I had to improvise for the 240sx parts. And 96-97 was such a weird year for 240sx, none of the FSM diagrams or online color coded ones match up with 96 year, and neither do 95. Its like its own special year for wiring, a cross between 95 and 97.
You can open the pictures in a new window for big picture usually (it should)
Turbo =Fun
Since 2018, it feels like practically every 'normal' car has 50lb/min now. I don't really keep up with what cars "have" ever, (not really interested in racing or motorsports, I don't watch or goto the track, I would go for scientific purpose (nice to have data) but kinda lazy so
Around 2012 I found out that every V8 car already does 45~lb/min minimum and so do many 4-cylinder turbo, the VE is finally starting to make sense on new engines, it isn't just Nissan anymore, everybody has a 500hp capable 4punch. It just feels like such a low number now and almost hurts to be stuck at 49 when everything seems to be catching up. Pretty soon Altimas will have 500hp. And nevermind the electrical powerhouses.
To be honest, there is very little chance I would put a naturally aspirated V8 in front of an automatic transmission, especially a 4l80e of all things. It's way too heavy for majority of Naturally aspirated apps unless you actually do need to tow stuff with a truck I guess thats fine.
For example https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post538630
For daily driving you need the 4l60e if power is below say 500 for novices and 700 for pros (at building the 60e), A real 60e pro builder combined with the right tuning and driving techniques could probably get 1000ft*lbs of torque to live through a 60e in a daily driver application, but now we are talking the sweetest combination of experience in building, trans tuning, and driving technique all combined at once for the sake of grocery getting, or in my case, driving to school each day.
check the date on this, I was much younger and less experienced (keep that in mind if reading something twenty years old)
Without these kind of experience it would be far more difficult to rebuild the 4l80e than it was. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ml#post1690906
The allure of 4l80e is that you can push 800ft*lbs of torque through and it just laughs, and it's our job to make jokes for it, so a turbocharger is integral. The turbo makes the torque whenever wanted and eliminates 'scrapping for power' as the naturally aspirated do
for example, almost 20 years ago we discuss how runner length affects cylinder volumetric efficiency, something you need to plan and account for when depending on the atmosphere to provide cylinder fill without forced induction https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ml#post1317874
Eventually, everybody learns how to utilize Boost control = atmosphere control, is a dial in the glove box
It doesn't matter what engine used. 6L, 5.3, 4.8, 3.0, if we use a similar turbo on each, then the power potential is approximately similar
The lowest observation emerges: use any engine/ Use the cheapest acceptable engine from 2002+
I wanted a 3.0L for this project. A 2jz-gte is the dream swap if you don't mind the heavy(heavier than LS?) engine. But it suffers from the same 'problem' as the sr20: Its practically difficult to replace for a 700hp daily driver using stock internals.
In a funny twist of fate, for whatever reason, there are larger, SBE turbo-compatible engines available that are much more affordable than the favorite 2.0 and 3.0L swaps for this weight range vehicle.
The larger displacement engines have a marked advantage because they produce more exhaust gas volume/time at low rpm which will help to spool a turbo.
Furthermore, the larger displacement engines can make more torque on lower octane fuel (cheaper fuel). To put another way, they will make more torque at the same boost pressure. We know all this already whats ur point. My point is that modern turbochargers have gotten so good that 600rwhp from a 2.0L spools in the mid-range say 4500-5000rpm easily. And that is just 2.0L. So, fate just handed me 5.3L,? you had me at 200+ cubic inches, I just remember what 3L engines can do.
Choosing a turbo and keeping it happy
A turbo in a daily driver needs to be reliable, so an OEM manufacturer like Borg Warner or Garret (those two are basically the only two I know of... but I don't get out much) was an obvious choice. I had lengthy discussions with an engineer at Borg Warner to determine how I was going to keep it alive, what sort of precautions I would need to take. Here is what I learned:
1. Oil drain should be positioned as vertical as possible, max angle is not much, around 10* iirc
2. Maximum inlet temperature to the turbine is about 1380*F. I will limit EGT to around 1250-1300*F using water injection to meet this specification. This will also protect the engine by reducing chances of knocking, and preventing excessive thermal expansion of parts like piston rings.
3. An oil accumulator would improve the lifespan of the turbocharger, as it can run with the engine off providing cooling on shut-down, besides the fact an accumulator will save the oil pressure and keep me from having to worry about logging it and watching it so much. So this is on my list.
4. Keep the external surface center section and compressor nut lubricated as part of routine maintenance to slow rust
5. max length oil feed line is approx 40" if using -4AN, it was suggested I could increase diameter to -6AN and go longer with the oil line, however this would seem to increase the delay of oil reaching the turbo during a cold start so I kept it short.
I am hoping for almost blower-esq torque without the parasite and mechanical heating/vibration of a belt, using this turbo: open in a new window to see big picture
Notice the center islands scale diagonally with rising "low" boost (12-17psi) through the midrange (3200 through 5200rpm) which is typical daily driver range for pump fuel and street mphs (no 6k pulls in 3rd to 140mph on the street ). The air temperature will be minimal for the majority of street play rpm domain, in regions where a larger turbo wouldn't even make boost yet or would provide warmer air due to being left of the island on the compressor map. In other words, I didn't choose a full out drag racing turbo; rather it is more like the 360hp turbo on an sr20det, very quick to boost and plenty of low temp safe torque at low RPM is available. It will get the car up and going with very little effort (no trans brake or 2-step is necessary).
Compressor map above is charted many ways, I think this was one of the higher outcomes and is ideal for a street car using mostly OEM engine output capacity ranges (around 72lb/min for 3 to 5 liter engines from a variety of manufacturers) which should provide an easy 500-650rwhp on 93 octane gasoline, the slowly fading reservoir that our children's children will laugh at the notion of burning explosive gas in a cylinder to move a vehicle over.
cleanliness is close to
A reliable (combustion) engine needs to stay absolutely clean inside and that usually will require a paper OEM style element perhaps designed for a diesel truck/turbo for maximum filtration which is essential on a reliable vehicle. I would take many further steps if I were in a sandy environment as well. Cleanliness cannot be understated. An engine spends its life hurtling towards the darkest soup of conglomerate sludge formed through lack of sufficient ventilation filtration, an ultimate destination which can be temporarily staved or put off almost indefinitely with proper application of cleanliness technique, since almost nothing inside an engine is technically supposed to wear out much if everything is working absolutely perfectly. In other words, significant wear is going to rear it's ugly head immediately within a very short time frame. An engine cannot last very long if a single internal component is actively wearing away metallic debris beyond factory expectation (very very very very.... little... each one has it's own acceptable presence in oil which I have heard can be tested) because even if that component doesn't immediately fail, it will still 'infect' every other component and ENSURE a catastrophic failure event, leaving behind useless parts and engine blocks which cannot be re-used without fear of re-contamination, no matter how thoroughly the orifices and surfaces are cleaned. This is why we should never rebuild or re-use an engine that has had any form of metallic inclusion (debris from metal parts) run through it, or any used engine parts which once may have contained contaminated oil (e.g. used oil coolers of unknown origin) unless the part or block is exceptionally rare and there is no other option.
read more if you like, I am skimming these topics (even though it may seem like a long paragraph, its really just the beginning of a discussion): https://zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=6355094&postcount=2
A great additional benefit to using low compression truck engines is that you can use 87 octane with the boost turned down.
The exh is very straight 3.15" to the back through a very quiet 'turbo' muffler and 3" resonator. It may require a cutout for max performance driving but it remains to be seen how far a quiet exhaust will take it. A 3.85" or 4" tube would be ideal and may be in the works.
Even with the boost turned all the way down (1-2psi), most V8 engine make around 350~ft*lbs of torque, about the same torque as 2.0L does at 15psi of boost w/ 93 octane, and it does so from basically off-idle.
Leaving like a madman on 87 is a great feeling. The car just feels right. So for $2.17/gallon I get near the max torque of an SBE SR20 and it's a couple thousand rpms sooner, With the ls engine.
And with 93 octane and the turn of a **** the 02-06 LS truck variants may approximately double that torque without complaint
Begin: Some handy diagrams I condensed details into and FSM pages for this swap
I created this to sort of condense the info
I'm super annoyed when I have to search for sequences on one page, and turn 100 pages for specs on another page, when they could display everything in one picture like this instead.
Some parts I had gathered that month
don't give up but don't get in over your head either, plan every step I can't stress that enough, have the whole thing planned out first.
tool I used:
I only own part of a basic craftsman set of hand tools, I keep only the ones I need for the car handy. namely, 1/4" (some hose clamps), 7mm (GM fuse box and coils), 8mm (most smaller bolts and regular common hose clamps), 10mm (like every bolt on the car and engine), 12mm/14mm (just the nissan car), 13mm/15mm (just the GM engine), 17/19mm (mostly the car), 3/4" (2/4 of the strut bolts), 22/24mm (big bolts like balancer).
Plus a couple screw drivers, vice grips, random drill bits and allen keys, that about described my variety options for tools and what I've used every step of the way. No air tools but I do have a $9 harbor freight drill. I had a $12 electric cordless but someone plugged it into the wrong charger and burnt the battery so I didn't get to use it much. What I am trying to say is that, if there is a will, there is a way. You don't need fancy tools to swap a V8 into one of these cars anymore because nearly every necessary part has been 'mass marketed' is mostly easy to find.
Most 'work' involves attention to detail, sitting down with the car in one place and pulling it apart, then putting it back together nice. It takes hours, days, months. Ex. I spent around 10 hours cutting and bending aluminum shields yesterday to make them look halfway decent in the engine bay for example. Lots of decent looking shields in the junkyard are fairly inexpensive. Wiring is also nearly free, there is some good quality of wire in the car but the actual labor is intense and 'free' for us to sit down and do, and it makes all the difference when its done well. Putting an engine or trans in and out only takes a couple hours in comparison; it is by far the "easy" part, for me at least. I think what I am trying to say is that, to be a good engine caretaker, first you need enough experience to become a good mechanic, the mechanical aspect should be trivial, pulling and replacing engines should be unnecessary in a daily driver application, but if it was necessary, you'd want and need the skills to do it quickly & effectively with as little space as possible. Otherwise, don't try this at home.
At that point I realized I had better get those broke exhaust studs out of the engine....
...Yeah, right. After breaking a couple different kinds of bit extractors, even trying to use a dremel, I was at a loss. My plan was to just rock the stock untouched engine but that was out of the question now. Definitely not an sr20 where you can just use it the way it comes. From this moment on I will always pulls the heads and likely do something about the head, maybe an aftermarket head or a cleaned up stock set. But I will not recommend porting or any modifications to the factory truck castings now that I have had experience with them, they are more like very useful disposable gloves than cylinder heads if that makes sense. Keep spares, use em up, regret nothing
So I used the excuse to pull the heads (love those kinds of excuses)
and cleaned up the pistons
added a pointer which I didn't need
We're just checking for potential problems here
FSM recommends Acetone to clean the deck...
A set of refurbished/remanufactured MLS 862 heads with new guides and seals
Im always suspicious of gasket matching. Heard too many stories of blocked coolant passages and water flying out of radiators.
Pretty happy
Cant reuse head bolts (well, you shouldn't haha)
It was my first time bolting down an LS cylinder head so I figured I would start by doing everything by the book, at least at first.
Follow FSM for rocker tightening
Use an actual impact socket on the balancer (sigh)
Got it nice and clean with some super fine paper
the FSM requires a specific angle of torque, after a pre-set number. I don't own an angle torque wrench (or whatever they are called) but I do have a camera and a plane of reference, so...
Intro continued from above
It might sound like what I am asking for is more than 51 lb/min+ capable engine (70lb/min is the new 'median' otherwise its just another regular car) that is local and affordable to replace, with 150,000 miles of reliability on the table every single time I roll the dice for engines that already have 120,000 - 180,000 miles (trying to match the reliability of sr20det at 45lb/min because we used to get them used with around the same mileage).
Luckily, In a very high perhaps 95-98% confidence interval for factory engines, both the Japanese AND American engines in general(any engine) that are made after year 2000 have that kind of reliability. So this is not really hard to find at all. You literally can choose almost any 6 or 8 cylinder engines in the world at 2.5L+ and use 65-70lb/min of airflow with reasonable success, some more than others and many are local.
So what I am really asking is which is the most affordable, easiest to install, inline6 or v8, 70lb/min+ capable engine available with reliable methods for successful hybrid of the two completely different species, that will also run on gasoline fuels acceptably.
Everyone knows the RB series, 2J series, which are locally available and popular choices for successful hybrids, but they are not the most affordable. Everything else is there, reliability, workflow, easy, etc... they are just more expensive and you get less displacement, which hurts in the torque department at low rotating speeds where daily driving is common, say 1500-2500rpm the V8 that is cheaper will pull harder. No drag racing is done at those rpms, so it isn't a concern for people trying to drag race their RB or 2J engines. Its just a fact that less displacement means less piston area and less crankshaft lever arm length, so torque is reduced for identical cylinder pressures, the 5L 'barely working' could be almost like a 3L 'working hard' at 1500rpm for example. For me to give up that torque where I drive all the time, and pay more for the engine, would be self-defeating.I know the 240sx will move better (more 'fun') with the V8. And its also a little more surprising. And It takes a little more skill, I am calling this one 'intermediate level' for sure. But certainly not very advanced. The LS, like the sr20 and 2jz has 'accumulated in technology' but is nothing compared to the modern 2018 versions of engines I have seen. I think 01-06 range is ideal for if you just want to run HPtuners style software but not wanting to get too involved into the complex intricacies of latest-cutting edge tuning methodology, where everything is secret and direct injection techniques are still evolving. I tend to wait until everything sort of settles down, when the systems complexity has been reduced to being 'easy' and the electronics are cheap and well known, but not antique-like (budget-enthusiast minded).
there was a bunch of little stuff to take care of,
This is how I got the F-body alternator bracket to fit the 5.3L engine
This is how you get the $60 LS-swap PS hose kit they sell in ebay to work with the F-body pump (by hack-sawing and de-burring the fitting)
Booted the ECU at home with my harness to make sure it 'works'
Got the -10AN fitting welded into the oil pan
Had to cut the rear oil windage tray, I guess for oil return rate when using the sikky pan
This ones just cleaning
Since I had to pull the windage tray, I had a look around
Primed the oil pump the best I could
Setup the lifter valley cover and knock sensors
The pan chilling on the engine
Had to setup injector and coil lengths, the harness wound up backwards for some reason. I had all the cylinders reversed, and needed to extend half the harness to reach the other side. I guess because I ran my computer into the car cabin or changed sides.
Was told you need to cut the ears off the 4l80e to get it to fit into... anything. So I did this. However, looking at it now in the car, it looks like they would have fit fine.
Intro part 3 continued from above
Lower rotating mass and better economy, sign me up all day. It is preferable for my situation to opt for economical. However the cost of those smaller engines is unrealistic for a legitimate college budget. I needed a factory engine that would do 70lb/min piece of cake that was also affordable and available, $1 for 1 horsepower or better. Many have paid a lot more than $1 per hp, this is what I consider the bread and butter of LS engine swaps for daily drivers, that is, the general potential for 500-1000rwhp on the table for SBE engines which are 1/5 to 1/7 the cost of a similarly capable JDM variety
---> goal #1 of 2018: use a 'free' engine. The Heaviest 70lb/min 'LS' variant truck engines are 'free'. I have been given a free 5.3L truck engine since this was written and have been unable to get rid of that 5.3L engine or find a use for it. I have seen five, ten of these engines crammed untouched in the corners of random shops, collecting dust apparently there for years, the owners probably would give me one if I needed it. I claim the engine is the cheapest part in the car even though it obviously isn't (What is? a washer maybe). Fun things you can say when you own these truck engines, "tires cost more than my engine", "I have to decide if I want to replace my ________ or my engine this month" where ______ is something ridiculous like a tooth brush or socks and
my favorite "its from a Tahoe" ... "you can get the whole running truck for 500 chocolate bars". sometimes a chocolate bar is $0.99 and sometimes its $2.50 you know what Im sayin
The engine is easy to get, even if you don't know anybody with a free one. This is the easiest part where I am. I was in this position when I started, and called a first junkyard about a 5.3 and the helpful rep asked me something like "Yes I have an 02. 04, (I think he mentioned having 5 of them or something) with low miles, what do you want to pay?" and I took him seriously and had a number in mind after 100 hours of research I felt what a good deal would be. He accepted the first number I threw down without flinching, then delivered the engine free. It wasn't like I just made up some number and overpaid as I had spent hundred hours of research on ebay and car-part.com looking at prices and mileage, I had been around to several yards with vehicles that still had the engines in them. My true desire would be to pick the perfect car, pull the engine myself and take it home. However those options were more expensive and required a truck, for example I found an Escalade 5.3 with 80,000 miles hit in the front. I bet it had perfect compression and a service record and clean smelling oil. But the price was high for me, sometimes yards with the escalade actually want around 1/3 of what an sr20 costs for one of those 5.3 motors, and that is really overpaying imo considering what you can get if really look around. I think 5.3L range is like 500 chocolate bars but I expect just like the sr20s that 02-0X 4.8/5.3L variants will dry up sooner than later and prices will rise, the way of all things. I am just getting couple good engine and maintaining the crap out of one for 10-12 years, and 5.3/4.8L with 80-130k sounds nice as backup. Actually I've already kind of decided I am going to use an L33 from an 07' with around 88,000 miles. higher compression and minus 100lbs will free up some economy and the gen4 internals will make it worth the effort.
Wish I could get a low miles 02-05 sr20det that fast and easy, but it doesn't exist. I just wanted to give you swap hope by illustrating how easy 4.8/5.3 motors are to find, and that their cost is basically negligible. I can replace my engine for less than a camshaft swap costs, and they deliver. (engine pizza?) It might not need to be said but obviously feel free to spend more on an engine if you have the budget for it and can attain acceptable swap progress with the more expensive parts, the bare minimum of factory components, even re-used gaskets and sensors, etc... it all adds up. I show its possible to do so using factory procedures even if you never saw the engine before. I did make a couple mistakes(I remember changing the oil pump when it was probably fine, and something about exhaust studs) but luckily everything so far has been minor.
Last edited by Kingtal0n; 04-20-2020 at 05:17 PM.
Reason: '
So around march I was rdy to start putting it in, measuring, then taking it out to hammer or cut as needed.
Actually it seemed to fit on the first try! How is this possible? Everything I had read led me to believe I would need to do major surgery...
I was able to get everything in and had what seemed like plenty of clearance on all sides...
With the engine in, I started looking at the trans mount. This was the one concern with the swap and it would make or break the entire car.
My father welds on bridges, so he has a large variety and supply of thick steel bridge welding materials, and special welding rods for arc welding very thick steel with great penetration.
I Held some overly thick steel up in loose pieces, chalked it,
My father has an arc welder that runs on gas. It was his turn to play a role in this car's future!
I do all the fabrication up to the point of welding, and my father arc welded everything.
Came out really nice!
But there was something bothering me. I felt like I had missed something... very important.
too bad it wasn't going to work. It was the next day that I realized I had completely neglected pinion angle for the mounts.
OMFG
It was at wayyy too much of a downward angle. /facepalm...That explains why it seemed to fit so easy.
I thought about all kinds of work arounds, solid axle, torque arm, differential spacers/angle adjustments... but at the end of the day decided to do it right. I threw away the mounts I had spent 2 days working on and started over. This time, I jacked the trans wayyyy high as I could into the tunnel.
The 4l80e is monstrous. it weighs around 240lbs wet and barely fit to begin with. And now I needed to raise it like 2 inches!
Free body diagram? In mechanics of materials, A-36 steel for example at the thickness I am using is far overkill for this job. The materials are from bridge construction/repair. Many times over sufficient safety factor at the thickness I am working with.
The transmission doesn't put alot of force on the mount, or rather it shouldn't. The trans mount is like a paper (easy to tear) fuse. At the bellhousing, engine plate, engine damper/chain, there are many ways to hold the engine steady; that is one place where force will be when the car accelerates, supported by the chassis and transferred through the trans, bellhousing and output shaft/driveshaft, but only if the engine doesn't start spinning freely in the engine bay. The less the engine moves, the stronger the bellhousing union(dowel), the less energy is wasted, and stored in the flexibility of a chassis I guess. It occurs to me that energy can be stored and released in many forms throughout a vehicle especially when it makes an initial move from a dead stop... And sometimes it can be beneficial if applied correctly. The goal is to load suspension and chassis like a rubber band as torque is applied at increasing rates, in order to keep the tire from spinning instantaneously while also feeding that energy back into the drivetrain gradually over time as the vehicle speeds up and the torque multiplication drops out due to gear change, and rising friction terms slow the rate of change of vehicle.
Any movement is technically wasted energy; yet sometimes small movements (slight vibrations) cannot be controlled directly with simple engine and trans bracing, and require a more finesse approach (specific damping).
Trans rubber is a flimsy 1-bolt piece designed to set the height of tailshaft and reduce vibrations (rubber), it does not experience alot of force (it would tear easily if the trans moves much). By inspecting the weak rubber mount and finding it perfectly intact we can also be fairly sure the engine isn't moving much or at all, because that would damage the trans mount. It's sort of like a fuse. For example If the trans rubber tore I would suspect the engine was moving (bad engine mounts).
tried to include 0.02* to .03 degrees of positive pinion angle for the event of creep (after 20+ years if it sags/moves 0.01* it will become more "perfect")
The angles of driveshaft need to be equal and opposite. The angle at the differential matches the angle at the trans tailshaft output. There is enough angle to induce rotation of the internal bearing needles or it could wear U joints out quickly. As I write this the date is 3/9/20 and I have over 25,000 miles on this design without issue , no movement, no vibration.
This picture is very old ~2017 much has changed, but nothing with the trans mount has changed.
My father welded the mid sections of each piece, and then I had a friend go over it with a mig welder to finish it off once I drove around with it for a couple days to make sure it was rightly done (no vibrations or noise at high speed from the drivetrain).
It fits like a glove, absolutely perfect fit to the point I question how it came out so well, is remarkably sturdy, and seems to support the chassis as a union between the frame rails. Sort of like a pseudo sub frame connector, I guess.
Once I fully test the design (many years), track tested, I would release the plan so it can be copied.
I got the motor into the car, done mounted up, then went to prime the oil system. You know, crank the engine with no plugs to get pressure.
After cranking for 30-45 seconds and seeing 0PSI on my oil pressure gauge, I was convinced the pump was bad. I pulled the motor, took the pan off and removed the oil pump:
It looks fine inside!
Just to be sure: I put a new pump on the engine anyways
how I treat the pan during this removal and re-assembly
Dont forget to throw away that balancer bolt and use a new one!
Here is my engine drop-in setup, I chain the lift to the boat trailor because 5.3+4l80e wants to tip over very easily.
The boat is older than I am and hasn't moved in twenty years or so. It doesn't belong to me.
I know it looks like I live in a tropical paradise surrounded by lovely trees but the truth is, the weather outside is brutal. It tries to kill you in the summer.
I can't work outside 20 hours non stop without suffering massive headache and fever, chest pain, by the end of the day, curled up unable to think.
Be sure if you work outside for any length of time to take breaks and eat/drink and wait to give your body a chance to sort it's electrolyte balance.
You might notice I removed my core support. This so I could get the engine in and out easily without raising it high, mostly because the cherry picker belongs to my dad and is 20 years old and will fail any second, I want everything as low to the ground as possible lol
So I put the motor back in
and still had the same issue: 30 seconds with no pressure. I chalked it up to 'normal behavior' kept cranking, eventually seeing good oil pressure everywhere.
Oil prime video:
I guess they take a while and residual oil on the bearing is all there is for a while. It makes me want an accumulator though for the next one. On the other hand, if the bearings still look new on used engines...
Oh well new oil pump was preventative maintenance I guess.
Ready to put the intake on
Gota pressure test that intake!
Intro part 4 continued from above
The ugly:
Coming from an 11 second 2.0 RWD 5-speed to lose 5mpg and add 350~lbs to the car. Or more! The 4l80e trans is ~220lbs vs the 70lb oem unit. Will never see 30+mpg again
Other goals:
Besides the lb/min factory expectation, to weight ratio, I have a few other necessities. 2. Need spark plug access EASY. Almost any of the original, seemingly cast manifolds make checking/changing plugs easy. If this wasn't possible I wouldn't have used/done this. I can check/change all 8 plugs in around an hour without fuss. A 2jz or sr20 would have been easier, they are superior engines in more ways than just this though. 2.5 Easy Bolt Access, good work flow. I need to reach everything without trouble. Bellhousing bolts, exhaust bolts, crossmember bolts, I can't have any bolts holding me up or difficult to reach that would make working on the vehicle un-fun. I've clearanced the trans tunnel such that removing every bellhousing bolt and the transmission can be done in 2hours. In the intercooler plumbing every hose is straight, brief, and every clamp is 'right there' nothing is near it to cut the coupler or get in the way. No tight 90's in the system either as it would inhibit performance. repeat: I dislike silicone bends, so I have designated tubes to all be straight couplers with mostly easy to access clamps. 3. Vehicle must appreciate. No sense building something that is losing value. The 5.3 is cheaper and easier to find than a replacement KA, the original engine for this car. So technically I have reduced the cost of maintenance and eliminated fear or worry of having to replace the original configuration, and nearly quadrupled the power output in the process.
I think it will only become more difficult to get a good, easy to maintain 240sx and with the way Japanese motor price and availability is going, I like my odds over here in 4.8/5.3 land. 4. Needs to be traffic friendly. most of the time I drive daily through rush hour. A/C and an automatic transmission are the two main keys here. Its why I went auto, mainly (not just because its faster.. certainly not that...) 5. No leaks, No noise. Can't be waking people up and can't leave a drip anywhere. The car will need a cutout for max power but for normal driving it needs to be silent because thats just what a respectable car is like. Noise can be advantageous and so can stealth, its a double fun way to play the car game and saves you a headache. 6. at least 25~mpg Economy is mostly about weight, but there are also little things we can do. I look forward to doing a section on how I squeeze max economy from a (this) vehicle. 25mpg is kind of a low bar, but for 68-74lb/min I think it is reasonable given the robustness of the drivetrain (wheel stand torque capable parts won't break in a daily) and ultimately free power plant provided for us. If we set 50lb/min limit then 30mpg is the new target minimum. My targets are made up, what I'd be willing to sacrifice in terms of economy for power given a similar reliability. I ask many years ago, and to this day, "would you give up around five to six miles per gallon to have around 600 to 700 horsepower on tap everywhere with minimal concern over breaking parts, using the same gas, and just drive the car like a normal car? Cold starts and short trips and long trips, like a 07' truck Escalade reliability." It depends how many miles you have to go I guess
I've been driving it for few years now and can't imagine a normal car anymore. I've lost touch with reality. Take it to the gas station to get a soda, using more in fuel than soda
Car is about to start for the first time around 4-10-17
trans gear range selector, I learned all about this thing and how important it is if you want certain functions like reverse lights and complete engine tuning control.
Car needed a special sway bar to clear the special oil pan
In my dreams, one of the biggest motivators was imagining a factory sedan shifter in the car, you know, to show just how much weight it gained in the mid section with all 15 quarts of trans fluid she just drank. Just imagining pulling it back 1 click into overdrive and melting the tires = trouble sleeping, and knowing that it will help hide the swap and also is reliable and should never give any trouble with the trans. It's really the only way I would do this sort of thing.
This plate is was later followed by a high quality reflective insulation, and then a thin aluminum plate with an air space, and finally a layer thicker "blanket" insulation from the trans tunnels of larger more luxurious cars. All for three layers total of protection plus the plate between the shifter and transmission seen above. The trans reaches 165*F after about 30-40 minutes of driving and without these layers the inside car temp would match soon after. The 4l80e should not go much above 180*F and most reliable 163-173*F from my research.
I knew what I wanted: a stock looking interior with stock OEM reliable parts in it.
People can look in the car and will only see original stock auto car. Even now they ask if I want to sell my stock 240. I might even run a stock radio to keep it looking authentic and because thats about my budget ($free) for things like radios.
Its as fun to pull back into D4 as it looks.
Around mid April it was ready to go to my friend's house where we would create the turbo plumbing for the car. He only had saturday and sunday to work on it, and it took 3 hours/day for approx 3 weeks, around 18 hours total to do the plumbing, downpipe ending at the flywheel.
Hot side is Stainless 2.25"~ and a 3" downpipe, stainless pipe from the local junkyard we got for around $40. The flange and turbo is from Full race motor sports and the hardware is inconel (major overkill I guess).
I spent a lot of time with a carbide bit in the collector, smoothing but also leaving a majority of meat everywhere.
I knew to avoid hot spots and maintain resilience so I didn't knife edge any transition
The flange actually slides into the pipe some distance but you can't tell easily because its been welded so well inside and out.
The turbo manifold fits incredible in the 240sx considering the space limitation.
I can't believe how well this plumbing came out, I guess OEM materials are pretty good stuff!
It even fully supports the turbo through the exhaust hangar, as opposed to leaning/weight on the head flange (in a video below I show this).
It has to be a reliable DEI blanket and Tial gate
I had fun putting the motor in but now it was time to get the engine running and trans shifting. And take care of some body stuff. I set it up with just the absolute necessary systems in order to drive it around town and test the drivetrain.
After couple days I got the compressor on the engine and saw some boost. With no spring in the gate it would give me 1-2psi.
I drove it to my friends shop and he helped me finished the exhaust to the trans mount area
While it was there he also let me use his cool tools to make some intercooler plumbing while he went out for errands.
Heres a mini band saw he uses all the time for this stuff.
A carbide bit for cleaning the pipes, this is what I use to clean them, he also has a special tool to do this as well, that doesn't require any air or electricity.
A belt sander also helps speed things up. Normally you would file or use the carbide bit but his shop was setup for speedy construction.
I love tig welding but I do not own a welder of any kind. One day I would love to have one though, the things I could make with time.
Several great friends and my father all helped with this car, I may not have attempted such an ambitious approach (turbo plumbing + trans mount) without their help. I did very little of the welding on my own car this time sadly, so far, but there is still some left to do so maybe I will get a chance.
Intro part 5 continued from above
As of 8-21-18 The highway economy 60-75mph at this point without cruise control is consistently above 20, even with some 'play' and is approx 22mpg.
I've compared many 4l80e combinations from a wide variety of vehicles (both trucks and swaps) And they all said that 22mpg is VERY good. Unbelievably good in fact.
Majority of 3800lb vehicles with 4l80e do approx 17mpg highway at best, just like the trucks where the engine/trans originally came from (Denali).
Economy isn't something that comes up often when it comes to 500hp+ daily drivers
So I guess I should be thankful it does what it does. Still, I wonder how much more I can get...
I think with a little bit of weight reduction, taller tires, and some lighter wheels, a slightly better rear wheel camber and some aerodynamics improvements I should be able to pass 25mpg easily. Eventually (maybe a year) I may be ready to go either 4.8L or L33 thus setting the 25mpg standard (80lbs deadweight or de-stroked engine will give me .2-.3mpg I bet). From there maybe lightweight internal transmission parts, lightweight driveshaft, lighterweight exhaust sections, lightweight hood, take out the spare tire and do a little more scavenging. I'd like to see 26.7mpg highway one day but honestly even just 25 is great when you also have over 500 on tap, just drivin around like its nothing. I find myself driving slower and slower, the faster a car gets, because lets face it fuel=power. You can use $15 of fuel in 30 minutes with a car like this if you want. Driving it extremely slow for max economy doesn't sound super fun but being able to have the car anywhere and everywhere I myself go while not having lots of money for fuel I feel like mad maxx road warrior chasing demons. Parked and I don't pop the hood. People will ask if I want to sell my stock 240sx. I start it and they still can't tell its been completely altered under the surface. It's almost incomprehensible, what we of the hobby do to our rides, ineptdly indepidly intricate items surprise
Now that it was driving I could work out some bugs. The first thing I needed to do was get a very quiet muffler on the car so I could hear the engine and trans. I went to a local exhaust shop (random) and within 30 minutes I had a "turbo-muffler" basically a cheap, small muffler on the end.
With that installed I instantly became aware of a strange noise in neutral. The transmission area sounded like something was rattling around. My converter creator, Yank, whos mysterious device (we can act like we built a car but in reality Yank and many others built my car) might be suddenly in jeopardy, said it could be flexplate cracked. A couple searches yielded the same info.
So,
I checked the fluid color in sunlight
Verified my converter pullout was correct and that there was no thrust under some load
Went to another friend's shop and he let me the lift, where I pulled out the transmission to change the flexplate as a "last" resort. And also the rear main, since I started using synthetic it started leaking. So perfect timing on that.
Added some rivnuts because I figured I would insulate the tunnel while I was in there. Junkyard insulation was nearly free. I still have mad stax of the stuff...
To make a long story short, that didn't fix the noise.
My next consideration was the transmission front pump was bad. I figured even if it wasn't it would still be nice to have a new pump in there.
So I pulled the trans back out a couple weeks later, And replaced the pump with a Remanufactured unit.
That did the trick, now the loudest thing on the car is the belt tensioner. Which I will be changing soon and then finding the next loudest thing, and so on, until everything is quiet
Also relocated the fuel lines to the other side of the car, Steel fuel hose, run similar to factory with OEM brackets from random JY cars. I get alot of stuff from the junkyard cars because its usually OEM good stuff
fwiw those dents have nothing to do with me, it was from previous owner. The frame underneath is pretty good considering it's age and has no rust, but its far from perfect which is why I chose this car. I figured I would be doing welding and cutting to the frame anyways so already being beat up meant I wasn't ruining a valuable original chassis. And it has nothing to do with the way a car drives, little dents like that are purely cosmetic. At some point I'll go over all of them in one way or the other, either cut out and re-weld or pull it somehow, or whatever to make it look normal again at least. With time, you can fix many things...
Steel hardline will last a long time, is very durable. As long as it doesn't rub or vibrate on anything.
This was necessary to get the fuel lines away from the exhaust. I also had to relocate the battery, and fuse box, to get it away from the turbo. Basically everything over there needed to disappear. You might be wondering why I didn't just put the turbo on the driver side? I have one reason in particular that I will now share. I've seen it done this way in several applications and the only way to make it work is to snake a downpipe past the steering shaft. And there is no way, no how, I am going to risk a downpipe anywhere near my steering shaft, with any engine that I have to design the exhaust component myself (I don't have a welder or I would have no issues with this, and everything would have been much easier). It would require too much "what if" engineering, where other bracket, safety loop, accident prevention type equipment would need to be fitted to prevent it. Think of a driveshaft safety loop for the downpipe. I didn't want to have to waste too much time trying to figure out a way to do that. I need this engine to be able to fall apart, the manifold to blast apart into pieces and the turbine to fall down near the oil pan, downpipe wedged any which way, and I still want to be able to control the car when this happens so it made the most sense to put it all on the non-steering shaft side. Alternatively I could have just converted my car to RHD, which I am not against, but its alot of work and im pretty dang lazy if we are being honest.
i dont even capitalzaie or spell check half the time
In the spirit of the internet meow
last heres a view with the pan dropped so you can see down the rear
I love this picture for some reason. It just shows how easy we have it now, with V-bands and so much space under it a 240sx is a dream car to work on.
Note that those lines wrapped in foil have nothing in them. They are empty original fuel lines that I might use for something else, or simply remove.
Every part that I can leave on "for now" is something I look forward to removing later (weight reduction) that way in the back of my mind, I always have a little more power to weight ratio waiting for me no matter what.
At some point I replaced the TCC solenoid as preventative maintenance because I had to remove the pan anyways to check the dipstick accuracy. I forgot to see if the dipstick actually would read correctly when I had the trans out so I wanted to be sure the fluid level was perfect, theres alot of talk how wrong fluid level leads to massive issues.
From what I remember the fluid level should be just level with the pan gasket, if not slightly over that line, while the engine is fully warmed and running with every gear already "had its share of wetness".
Heres a thread I made when I wasn't sure about the trans front pump being bad. It has some diagnostic info, sound clips, etc.. so it might be useful to someone.
I also attached some video clips of the car running, in various states (open downpipe vs full exhaust in some) try to read the title of the clip to get an idea of what it is for.
Nice. My first car was a '96 240SX. Still have it. What's the market for these things like? Always loved the idea of actually decreasing weight and doubling HP in that car. Never got around to it. Do you plan on going to a LSD? I'd imagine traction could be a problem with the stock open diff.
The car is about 1/2 way point today. and I still have quite a bit of information to add and fill in. One of things I forgot to mention was the differential situation. The short version would be, I put a Q45 3.69:1 ratio using 5-bolt J-30 axles to the stock hubs. Mileage increased dramatically from the 4.10 factory ratio, it remains to be seen final economy, I feel confident it will 25+ combined. I think the car could use a 3.34 or 3.45:1 rear gear so I may eventually go 350z diff or whatever I find that is simple.
update: sometime in the beginning of 2018 I put a 3.5:1 Q45 differential with 32-spline axles, considered to be one of the strongest OEM differential combos that fits a 240sx in existence.
One of the great things about 240sx platform is they appreciate. RWD and 1000lbs lighter than most V8 cars also helps. Its a great "learning" car, easy to work on, parts and affordable. The best thing after OEM parts is the interest by large companies that build race cars and test parts like Sikky for example, they use their own 240sx platform parts to generate high quality racing-testing chassis mod parts that they sell. I think that really increases the value of the 240sx because now you can put all different kinds of engines into one using these high quality tested racing parts, like OEM but better, and they are actually affordable and old enough to be had second hand etc.... its just a great time to have a car in this category that also happens to appreciate.
I also noted you said 'still have it' and I wanted to mention one more thing. The original chassis untouched with good frame rails, good pinch weld, is worth what most builds are worth. Like a clean original 97 with 150k can fetch 10k all original, if everything is right. I wrote a how-to-value guide on zilvia.net and freshalloy.com if you want some examples,
here are the pictures from the guide: https://postimg.cc/gallery/1x8wbmmeo/
That should explain a lot even without words I think.
The car is about 1/2 way point today. and I still have quite a bit of information to add and fill in. One of things I forgot to mention was the differential situation. The short version would be, I put a Q45 3.69:1 ratio using 5-bolt J-30 axles to the stock hubs. Mileage increased dramatically from the 4.10 factory ratio, it remains to be seen final economy, I feel confident it will 25+ combined. I think the car could use a 3.34 or 3.45:1 rear gear so I may eventually go 350z diff or whatever I find that is simple.
One of the great things about 240sx platform is they appreciate. RWD and 1000lbs lighter than most V8 cars also helps. Its a great "learning" car, easy to work on, parts and affordable. The best thing after OEM parts is the interest by large companies that build race cars and test parts like Sikky for example, they use their own 240sx platform parts to generate high quality racing-testing chassis mod parts that they sell. I think that really increases the value of the 240sx because now you can put all different kinds of engines into one using these high quality tested racing parts, like OEM but better, and they are actually affordable and old enough to be had second hand etc.... its just a great time to have a car in this category that also happens to appreciate.
I also noted you said 'still have it' and I wanted to mention one more thing. The original chassis untouched with good frame rails, good pinch weld, is worth what most builds are worth. Like a clean original 97 with 150k can fetch 10k all original, if everything is right. I wrote a how-to-value guide on zilvia.net and freshalloy.com if you want some examples,
here are the pictures from the guide: https://postimg.org/gallery/1x8wbmmeo/
That should explain a lot even without words I think.
I started working on the body wiring and fuse box relocation, but I forgot my camera card. So no pictures from the 40+ hours I worked on it over the weekend and lost 5lbs from not eating. However you will still be able to appreciate the results!
But first, since the dash was out, I started fixing my turrible dash
Its pretty bad, I don't even know how they get this bad. Only 95-96 units do this, the 97-98 dash will crack but not like this.
I've done another dash in the past, using super glue and baking soda. But this dash needed epoxy to fill the large holes, and I cut some plastic pieces to smooth the surface.
Its better but still needs work. For now at least its better. Many small cracks still need to be dealt with, but I think I will just better off changing the whole dash. When I deal with the a/c vents and final resting place of the ECU (where the airbag currently is, I hope) I will also hopefully have a next dash to put in.
As to the wiring. When I get there the following weekend there was still some minor wiring to finish up for the body harness.
Believe me, this is nothing compared to last weekend's mess.
I don't trust a single factory relay to run a powerful single fan so I have the factory fan1 and fan2 relays actually running the same fan on LOW and HIGH to split the current in half. Because there are also +2 other fans (3 total) I ran extra power wires and more fuse from the battery cable through the body harness and under the dash. Also added extra power wires in the body I can use for something else.
This is showing how I ran the fuse box relocation bundle under the drivers seat. I am not super crazy about he lump it makes, so I may move it to the center console. For now it works fine and I don't notice it much.
Running the fuse box relocated to rear, it goes up into the quarter panel area.
By the driver headlight I have the trans cooler, and the sensor for temperature to kick on the trans-cooler fan is that little brass thing with 2 wires.
I am super picky about my wiring protection and function. I used cooler hose anywhere I could to pass the wires, under tube and tape and anything else I could wrap it with. Keeping every OEM plug available also just in case I want to re-attach stuff, like the horn (yeah) and fog light outputs to something (what do I want to activate with fog light switch hmm?) and other OEM wires in the harness, intact for re-purposing, like windshield washer sprayer is still there, ready to use.
I've got plenty more but for now, I noticed that the fuse box seems to fit really well in the quarter panel... Note that I am able to open these pictures up large by opening them in a new window.
I got a new camera so a couple of weeks went by where I simply forgot the memory card, or the charger (my old one took batts) and then one week I just didn't feel like taking many pics (camera was dead, didn't want to drop what I was doing to charge it. It was raining my shoes were muddy I was outside in the rain with the water pump on a bench trying to tap it with the wrong tap. Long story). So about three weeks now I've been steadily making progress anyways.
Lets see if I can remember everything now:
0. about 4 weeks ago the bay got a major re-wiring and the fuse box relocation, wiring under the dash routed for aux power to the engine bay. It should say somewhere above where fan power comes from etc..
1. Removed water pump for tap/plug heater core finally. I will have a heater eventually but first I would like A/C finished.
2. Put in a brand new gates water pump with new 160*F thermostat allows me to hold water around 180*F now instead of 190*F with the old one. I couldn't stand that not being able to go below 188*F lol
3. Did more restoration to the car, AGX struts, strut mounts, ball joints, control arm bushings. And I still have tie rods, upper control arms, wheel bearings to do and an alignment and some tires of course (hints for next month).
4. found what was causing awful clacking noise when I hit bumps (swap bar end link is broken)
5. ran the tank to hardline portions of the fuel lines with braided hose covered in convoluted tube, hose clamped to the hard line. We will discuss why I went this way at length shortly.
6. Got an air filter tube made for it finally and now have proper 4" paper filter and a PCV hose for the crankcase on the engine. I just finished doing this and the engine seems to run much better now. It might be my imagination (need to get scanner on it, I don't normally drive around with it anymore) but I feel like it needs less throttle position to cruise as well.
All in all this was some major progress and alot of things off my mind.
latest driving config
I have a bunch of temperature data from before and after the shielding but gota finish homework before I do more of that
Next couple of days will bring many changes, finalize fuel system situation for sure is one of them. Probably going to put some new tires on it soon also.
I can pretty up the pcv (ugly hoses). Mount the IAT. Add another shield to finish the valve cover protection. Remove the old ugly fuel lines finally. paint the hood support lol.
Going to try to find some vette covers, see how those look. Might find the time to mount the ECU where the airbag is to get the passenger floor clear. At some point, not soon, but eventually, power coat the plumbing and various articles, and paint parts of the bay that look ugly. intend to paint the coils if I can, and valve covers, brackets, and so forth. The ugly stuff haha. More concerned with how it looks atm because it drives so phenomenal.
Yesterday I connected the new fuel system. It took longer than expected (8~ hours) but overall success determined by no leaks, no fuel smell.
Clean it good and take the old pump out
Setting up. I made sure to have high quality breeze stainless hose clamps for the fuel system.
This silly ring is easy to lose, and I've had the stalk break as well on cheaper pumps.
Fuel sock direction faces the hanger. I used to always forget which way to position it, and it might not be obvious looking down in the tank which burns my nose.
I decided it couldn't hurt to keep the factory clip on the hose as well.
I'm not sure soldier and heat shrink is a good thing to have in the gas tank. I decided I still like the idea of a shrinkable/vulcanizing connection so I bought a pack of these high quality, shrinkable crimp connections.
Nuff said? Hose clamps on braided hose are track legal, in case you were wondering.
I am not leaving it like this, obviously. I wanted to test drive the car and this is all I had at the time. Its safe but its ugly so don't get used to seeing it. Looks like I am going to need a 90* to hide the filter on the side and snake the feed under the regulator.
New pump, new lines.... New injectors.
They flow test them and give a little paper. I put the highest flowing on the rear two cylinders from superstition, the highest of course on number 7!
Remember to put something on the Orings to keep them safe
I looooove soldiering near open fuel lines. yessirr I do...
Fuel lines, fittings, etc... info
If you read online about cheap AN fittings, you will see alot of "hit and miss" results. That the fittings don't match the hose and leak, or that two different fittings from the same place fit differently, inconsistency abound. If you risk a fitting like that in a hard to reach place, such as under the car or in the fuel hatch, well...
When it comes to fuel line, I can't afford to take any chances. The use of cheap fittings is not an option for me. There is only 1 Fuel AN fitting on my car and it is on the rail in plain sight (visual inspection is easy) and it is a RUSSEL with an O-ring which I am familiar with. It sealed up after only hand tight against 45psi of baseline fuel pressure.
The system is composed of 2 Steel Hard Lines, large enough to support approx 750 Horsepower, according to Aeromotive, which run the length of the vehicle, both I flared using a rental tool, and there are short-as-possible sections of braided hose with high quality stainless breeze host clamps, basically a slight upgrade from factory which uses 2 sections of rubber hose mated to steel hardline using clamps as well. The rear sections I added/coated in a tube designed to keep wiring from being cut, as it snakes behind the fuel tank to reach the hard line (exactly like the factory rubber hose used to do on the other side) as I've seen braided fray when being rubbed against... well anything. If I wanted to lean on methanol injection a little bit the system could support a gasoline output around or above 800 horsepower.
It needs a cleaning up but for now it will service reliably, and is very simple, easy to access, and inspect. The way I check for leaks is run the fuel system with the engine off, and smell every junction, check it visually and smell for gasoline.
Couldn't resist taking it for a spin with the new injectors even though it was 1am. Guessed some numbers for the initial settings that turns out to be dang close for a first try. HPtuners is easy because airmass calculations are done by the computer from 'obvious' VE table numbers, so it isn't hard if you know the injector size to guess a good startup tune, or at least a safe one like I was able to, because the computer looks at VE, injector size, and calculates how much pulse to put into the engine. As opposed to say, a real stand-alone that used a pulse-width based base map, which is far more difficult to 'guess'. I had no idea what size the old injectors were so my injector flow-rate table used to be a wild mess to get the behavior I wanted, so it was even easier now that I knew what I was working with.
Tie rods/bellows and Alignment complete, drives like Cadillac
Changed spark plugs, took 30 minutes and that was me taking my time. Not too bad if I can just keep from leaning on the exhaust wrap. These are the original plugs I started with, first ones I put in the engine and they survived all the tuning/two sets of injectors and me constantly changing conditions. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-7k-miles-5-3L
I put another set of TR6 for now, but I bought some TR7 iridiums that I think will be the cats meow for my application. Those will go in after I tune the engine with new TR6's at higher boost. Right now I'm waiting to install a 3.5:1 Q45 32-spline differential before turning up the boost anymore as the existing ratio is just too short to hit 150mph in 3rd with any size tire I could fit.
I finished a final exam and had a day to play with colors before I went out of town. I am going to try a variety of colors to get a feel for what I like, so don't freak out just yet if you see a clashing scheme.
I am getting ahead of myself though. Theres still a bit of wiring, vacuum hose changes, bracket and cover making yet to be done before I can really color anything proper. Still need to add some sensors, tap some plumbing, am waiting on some hose, etc... I was just excited to see what it has in store. I really like the copper and blue. Red doesn't ever seem to work no matter where I put it though. Shame though red is my favorite color.
little 4 minute drive around before recent progress occurs, benchmark for driving character before the new differential, torque mngmnt, and locked converter engine braking.
Finally found the proper rear end setup , 1994 Q45 3.54:1 ratio, 32-spline axles, no driveshaft abs extension. Purrfect
My Q45 search thread: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=658548
Oh, how will the car change dramatically with this differential.
Some other changes,
I added a couple switches. A lockup interrupt switch, and the brake switch to kick it out of lockup on decel when braking. The interrupt is to prevent lockup when I don't want it, such as on the highway right before a pull in 1:1 3rd gear.
Also added a momentary switch for transmission mode switching. Now I have 2 completely different trans-maps at the smack of a button. Right now I've got the 2nd one good for burnouts (no early shifting from 1-2 with the shifter in D) but I think ultimately the 2nd map will be a "traction map" with torque management turned up. I am still xperimenting with TM to generate the best feeling shifts, a little bit of wheelspin into the next gear feels faster.
Ah, which brings me to TM or torque management. Let me just say TM is the most amazing experience I've had with this computer system so far. It completely changes the driving character. The car is like a new car now. When it shifts each gear is strong, sudden, but doesn't spin the tire or lose control of the car. It just shifts firmly and moves on. Its my favorite part of this swap so far if you can't tell. I don't even lose traction in the rain from 1-2 gear. I know more than one car that was wrecked because of a powerful 1-2 shift. Hopefully with TM I can avoid that fate forever. The numerically lower gear 3.54:1 will also help with traction. I will be able to make quite a bit more engine torque without spinning the tires now thanks to reduced torque multiplication. Hopefully the next couple videos will be more "performancy".
updates:
Drilling new flange pattern Look inside the diff
Rare chance to take a pic of my exhaust on the ground
156 miles on new 3.53:1 differential in 2 days is finished testing, to report are no leaks or issues. All I did was swap hubs, axles, diff on my friends lift, it took 6-8 hours. Then use automatic gear calculator, didn't touch a single shift point MPH. And it drives so close to perfect still. Comfortable now ~2500rpm around 72mph hopefully translates to more driving less stopping for gas. Range is something important to me, knowing I can get 330 miles one way without needing fuel is kind of important to me, more than any money savings. In fact the money saving going from 24 to 25mpg is not very much at all to even bother with. Furthermore, nobody actually drives a car like this always at absolutely a perfect cruise. Power output is directly related to fuel consumption, so if I demand more power from any engine, whether 2L or 6L, they will both consume similar quantities of fuel to make the same power. Remember also higher boost pressure on the 2L means more fuel pressure compensation which reduces fuel pump output. The same fuel pump flows more fuel on a 6L engine, supports more rwhp because of lower manifold pressure.
-rotating mass of the larger V8 could outweight the difference in Brake Specific Fuel Consumption if rpm wasn't compensated for with gearing
Its been a couple weeks now at 5psi. I've been just driving and turning the controller up one click at a time from 3.5 to almost 5.5 now. One of the things that was important to me in this build is the re-use and service life of specific OEM parts. Since it was my first LS engine, some things you just have to try and see. One of those items was the re-use and analysis of factory exhaust manifold gaskets in a daily/abuse setting. The sr20det OEM multi-layer manifold gaskets are very high quality and prevent you from "searching" for a solution, for example.
In order to appreciate the ability of a part it needs to be tested in more than one way. Everytime somebody re-uses a head gasket and Torque to yield head bolts they are 'testing a part a certain way that isn't identical to the way it was originally created and used'. In this case, I not only wanted to test the OEM manifold gaskets, I wanted to re-use some, and in a way that they were not originally created for. Furthermore, if I had installed a pair and immediately turned the engine up to 20psi and blew the gaskets, I wouldn't have any long-term data regarding them (or other parts for that matter) at lower, more 'normal' daily driver power levels. The whole point of turbocharging for a 'false atmosphere' is the electronic boost control of being able to turn it down when you don't need every last scrap of juice, and all the way up when you do without moving from the driver seat. Dial-an-atmosphere I call it (not really lol).
By driving the car for 15,000 miles with factory exhaust gaskets (and intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets) re-used and no incidents I have confirmed at least one thing. If I turn the boost up now and have an incident with a gasket I will now know that it is much more likely to do with the increased exhaust gas pressure than simply wear or installation related of the gasket. In other words, if I had put the gasket on and turned engine power up right away, and the gasket blew, how would i know it wasn't due to my gasket installation? The same thing goes for a wide variety of parts (coils, wires, plugs, pumps, gaskets/seals, etc...) now which have survived, if not flourished under the daily driving conditions which can be brutal to some high output installations.
Some classic examples of systems which tend to fail in high output installations are:
brake master cylinder (melts in some installs and causes a fire)
oil control / baffle systems (results with oil leaks and oil mists)
axles/differential/clutch/shafts can fail
cooling/radiator/fans system can become inadequate
exhaust and intake gaskets are often untested and leak
oil pickup / oil volume flow can become inadequate and starve the engine
transmission internals and fluid temperature can get out of hand
engine exhaust gas temperature can escalate to the point of damaging components such as starters and pistons, or start a fire, or melt parts
belt systems/accessories can fly apart at high speed (the plastic PS pump pulley is known for this) and the belt can throw
...add ur favorites
In building a car I give each system careful consideration and decide what would be the easiest. Essentially the most trouble free solution. If no such solution exists I come up with one or I don't do the swap.
For the most part, before I even started buying parts for this build, I already knew what would work right out of the box. For example, I knew the OEM Q45 differential and axles would take the abuse, and there are no affordable custom solutions for handling torque of this nature, so without this OEM part to run to for reliability I would never have attempted this swap.
The same goes for the transmission. A reliable OEM unit that won't mind insane torque values. After all, it was designed for some kinda 6500lbs diesel truck or whatever.
And the list goes on. The oil pan I used has special trapdoors to prevent oil starvation (oil cant leave the center but it can flow into the center). The pulley and belt system is reliable at high rpm. The pcv system seems adequate so far at controlling oil. What I presume are the original, used, 1998 intake gaskets that came to me in the LS intake manifold are still in there and don't leak (yet haha). In fact even the starter is a 1998-1999 unit with unknown (probably 150-200k) mileage and seems to still have some life left. Yes I have a spare starter, new intake gaskets, new exh gaskets, I even have spare rear main seal, plug wires, plugs, fuel pumps, and balancer bolts. Of course it is good to prepared. The key here however is to see how long and how far you can go with the OLDEST parts, the longest lasting parts, get the most mileage from them. I want 35-50k from my plug wires for example. Keeping maintenance costs low is a key to budget daily drivers that you actually want to drive for long distance, many many miles. Also being able to put cheap gas (87 octane) helps. These engines run fine on 87, they have a low octane map which isn't even used in my tune since I am so conservative. One of the things I learned a long time ago about forced induction engines is to let the boost do the work, not the timing. So when I put 87 in the tank I just keep the boost all the way down (3.5psi) and it basically runs like a stock engine would (plus maybe 20-35 horses). You have to reflect upon the fact that the stock truck engine has a stock truck camshaft, which will generate an incredible VE (peak torque), perhaps higher and sooner than it would with a real camshaft. That means its actually less safe on 87 octane than it would be with a cam upgrade. If you consider that the Original engineers KNOW about the super-high-ve spot when they designed these engines, you have to also consider that their allowance for safety factor of high temperatures (IAT & CT which typically pulls fuel and timing) puts that super high stock-cam VE situation at enormous risk when using poor fuels as 87. also consider that they knew that some of these engines would be run at sea level which has the full 1atmosphere of density. And finally the fact that this engine was intended for a TRUCK which could be pulling a heavy load, lowering the rate of change of RPM and creating higher peak pressures in the combustion chamber. Put it all together and you get the compression ratio of the stock engine: low enough to be safe on 87 in extremely hot, poor conditions at sea level while towing something. Some variance is included, lets say +/- 10% in cylinder pressure is to be anticipated (especially if you started putting N/A mods on the engine such as headers, valve changes, cam swap, intake mani) which can additionally raise VE at sea level. Thus the compression ratio was chosen appropriately to provide this truck with enough safety factor that it will still run great due to all these variances, a couple psi of boost is just another small unnoticed change to such an engine with such a conservative tune.
Whats happened so far:
In the last 15k miles I've had no real issues to relate. I love failures because they teach us what works and what doesn't. Nothing major so far, but, something at least
First thing that happened was, couple weeks ago at school the OEM oil pressure sender exploded, lol
l
This was really funny because I was wondering why it never worked from the beginning (I guess it was full of oil), and I actually had the fitting with me to fix this issue on the spot, as I had intended to put an actual oil pressure gauge there eventually anyways.
Next the window was going slow so I decided it was time to clean the drivers door out and re-grease the regulator and deal with the door lock (it was sticking)
bit by bit I wash the car everywhere, all the dust and dirt out.
Next I had a battery die on me (left headlights on, sigh), and then it wouldn't recharge! I Started looking through my HPtuner logs and it looks like the alternator is working however when I put my actual meter on the battery I would only get 12.6-12.8v
I could tell the alternator was "working some" because it was putting out more voltage than the battery did with the car off. So that was something at least.
Anyways, the short story is that it turns out the alternator was at it's limit, for being 25 years old I guess, plus having to deal with my increased current draw (lights/fans/pump).
I installed a new alternator (AC Delco) and it seems like it charges better than the original unit did. I also got a new battery for a 'clean slate' and I've been monitoring voltage- its been perfectly charged everytime (12.6-12.7 volts with engine off).
Here is the full details of alternator discussions: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...vior-5-3L-swap
I've been too busy driving it like crazy to worry about fuel economy, so far my conservative estimates put city mileage around 18-20mpg and highway 21-23mpg. I think 24-25mpg is not out of the question.
Again don't get hung up on colors, its hue changed just for fun, and a little testing as the paint I used has a low warming/melting temperature and will start to run/smear if the temperature goes too high. This is one way to check and see if the temperature in those places (valve cover area especially) ever gets out of hand while I can't see it. I still have at least four shields to make to separate the turbine from the compressor and intake areas, and also some under the car to protect areas where I don't want debris or water splashing up. It also needs a couple panels and some brackets still, some finishing and edge protection (just a little rubber seam). I've yet to hide the wires at the back (its nice to have access to the CPS and starter solenoid wires atm). The wastegate route could also be cleaner. I'm going to run coolant to the gate soon as well.
Am driving it far more than working on it these days though. When summer courses almost finished hopefully I will have a couple weeks to get some of the major things done (A/C system especially is on my mind).
I've also been thinking about going to a 4.8L engine. I think if I can find a low mileage 4.8 I will put a cam/springs in that and keep it as a backup instead of a 5.3. the 4.8 should enjoy spinning to higher rpms easier and get a little tiny bit better economy as well. it won't be as good for towing though (shorter stroke and hopefully less rotating mass) luckily I don't have tow hitch so I won't notice
03-03-2018, 10:35 PM
5.3 4l80e 240sx Turbo 500rwhp, < 3000lbs, College budget basic tools
I am not a mechanic - I just like to inquire performance from everything around me, myself included, and try not to overdo it 
). The air temperature will be minimal for the majority of street play rpm domain, in regions where a larger turbo wouldn't even make boost yet or would provide warmer air due to being left of the island on the compressor map. In other words, I didn't choose a full out drag racing turbo; rather it is more like the 360hp turbo on an sr20det, very quick to boost and plenty of low temp safe torque at low RPM is available. It will get the car up and going with very little effort (no trans brake or 2-step is necessary).
and Tial gate 
