Aslan Vs Jesus

Saw the new Caspian move…liked it. Had to re-read the whole damn series again.

 

Christians like to say Aslan is Jesus, just in an alternate “reality”.

 

Well, based on what happens in the Chronicles, I’d sure have an easier time following Aslan than I ever did Jesus.

 

Why?

 

Unlike Jesus, Aslan’s resurrection was the beginning of a Golden Age, in which Aslan shows up here and there throughout (instead of disappearing immediately). As evidenced by the Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, and A Horse and His Boy.

 

Unlike Jesus, after 1500 years….Aslan actually shows up again, revealing himself to many varied witnesses friend, foe, and fence-sitters alike. (Prince Caspian)

 

When you “pray” (or plead) for Aslan’s help…he actually shows the fuck up. In Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy pleads for Aslan to help them when they were trying to row away from the Isle Where Dreams Come True…and he actually shows up as a glowing albatross to lead them out of the Dark, AND reveals his identity directly to Lucy who had made the Plea.

 

He permitted various witnesses (including a nemesis) to the creation of Narnia. (Magician’s Nephew)

 

You have to travel a long-ass way….but you can actually GET to Aslan’s Country. (Dawn Treader)

 

Aslan’s punishments actually fit the crime. Aravis does something she knows will get an innocent person lashed, Aslan makes tit for tat by giving her the same number of claw marks as the slave girl got lashes. He doesn’t consider killing her whole family a fitting punishment. (Horse and his Boy)

 

If you don’t follow Aslan’s instructions exactly, you can make up for it and still complete the desired task. Jill screwed up Sign after Sign….they still found Prince Rillian and were able to free him by not fucking up the Final Sign, thus making fffing up all the other Signs irrelevant. (Silver Chair)

 

You aren’t fucked by Aslan if you worshipped the wrong god. Your intent and your heart is more relevant than the name you held as Divine. (The Last Battle)

 

Aslan actually has a sense of humor. And he likes to play.(Various)

 

Aslan can throw serious parties. He’ll hang with Bacchus & Company. (LWAW, Prince Caspian)

 

Aslan actually enjoys being touched. By Talking Beasts and Humans alike. He’s not the type of person to demand to know who touched him in a crowd. (Various)

 

 

I'm sure more could be added.....have at it!

He's a fucking lion, and lions rule.

He says what he means and means what he says.

I was having this exact discussion with my sister after we saw the movie, If god was a huge lion who actually showed up and helped people when they were suffering then I wouldn't have a hard time believing in him.

I totally agree, I love Aslan and all the Narnia books. Narnia is actually how I pictured heaven as a kid.

There was a passage in one of the books. I can't remember which one off-hand, but Aslan told Lucy (can't remember the name either) that she must learn about his foil in her world. I always assumed that the parallel there was Jesus and this comes about mostly because C.S. Lewis is the one of the foremost Christian apologists of all time.

 

Edit...I asked an English teacher in a nearby classroom. She informed that passage was in the last chapter of "The Last Battle".

 

Great books all around. "Horse and His Boy" is my favorite.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, as a child I believed in Aslan. When I became a teenager, my affection for Aslan as a character was in fact greater (probably much due to the childhood memories) than mine was for Jesus. I even confessed this as a sin to Jesus, because we should never love anyone more than Jesus, right? But Aslan was my dearest childhood treasure.

 

He was, to me, the embodiment of courage, strength, honesty, dignity and wisdom - all the things I held as true virtues. Now that I am no longer a Christian, I am again free to love this character who, in A Horse And His Boy (which I really recommend), walked by troubled little Shasta, saying "Tell me your sorrows".

 

Aslan's words in the Chronicles always move me to tears. True enough, I'm easily moved, but they get to me. I wish he were real. If he was then there would truly be a God worthy of worship.

I think for a lot of people watching they see Christianity in it because they expect to see Christianity in it. That's their world view. Similar idea to looking back at older myths that have a christ-type figure who rises from the dead. They look at the world through the glasses of a Christian, therefore they'll see it as a analogue to Christ. It goes back to thinking that everything good is from Jesus. The thought process is that if something talks about good morals then it must be talking about Jesus because He's the source of good morals.

 

With the minotaurs and centaurs it almost seems more like a Greek myth to me though.

I must've been the only Christian I ever knew that HATED The Chronicles of Narnia with a passion. I can't stand Lewis, his writing, his characters, etc. This is meant in no offense at all to those who loved Aslan as a character, or as a pseudo-replacement Christ, it's just saying that I hate Lewis' writing.

 

Then again, I'm more of a Tolkien fan, personally. As a child, still struggling with Christian foster parents - before I understood the concept of heaven and hell, when I was told that I could go to heaven after I died - I assumed I was "going West". I just never really understood Narnia the way I understood and loved Middle-Earth, which just seemed more... real (all fantasy elements aside).

That's the thing - he wasn't a replacement or even proper image of Jesus for me till a lot later. I loved Aslan for Aslan. I loved him being a lion who looked after those who belonged to him. He was just.

 

However, I think it is fair to assume that Aslan has certain Jesus-related properties. There are many allegorical features between them. Denying that there aren't any is, I think, an attempt to detach from Aslan what is naturally part of his character. However, personality-wise and god type-wise, they are nothing alike. Aslan dies to free Edmund from the consequences of his treachery. Aslan rises from the dead the following morning. Aslan is the son of the Emperor-Beyond-The-Sea. Aslan is the creator of the world of which Narnia is a part. Though there are similar (not at all identical) myths about several hero stories from ancient times, you can't really take away from that.

 

The great difference the way I see it, lies between their personalities. Aslan cares for those who belong to him. He makes an effort to keep them from harm and he doesn't just "let go" whenever they stray more or less from the direction he has given them. He is just in the sense that he judges people by their actions and the intentions behind their actions. Aslan can see something good in somebody who isn't, on paper, "his" (The Last Battle). Aslan gives credit where credit is due. He encourages people when they need it, helps them when they need it, saves them when they need it and even yells (or roars) at them when they need it.

 

I remember one very, to me distinct, episode in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. They're close to the Dark Island where all nightmares come true. The crew are about to go insane, but then Lucy calls out for Aslan:

 

"Aslan, Aslan, if ever you loved us at all, send us help now."

 

Lucy then sees an albatross who whispers to her "Courage, dear heart," and they are rescued from their peril.

 

This scene is, I think, almost better in the BBC series than it is in the book.

There was a passage in one of the books. I can't remember which one off-hand, but Aslan told Lucy (can't remember the name either) that she must learn about his foil in her world. I always assumed that the parallel there was Jesus and this comes about mostly because C.S. Lewis is the one of the foremost Christian apologists of all time.

 

Edit...I asked an English teacher in a nearby classroom. She informed that passage was in the last chapter of "The Last Battle".

 

Great books all around. "Horse and His Boy" is my favorite.

 

That English teacher doesn't know her Narnia then. That passage is from Voyage of the Dawn Treader (Book 3*) as opposed to The Last Battle (Book 7).

 

 

* Book 3 based on the original order of the books. One of the sets I own ass-fucks the order (it may be chronologically correct, but it's absolutely senseless for a first-time reader as MN is written so that your knowledge of Narnia is already assumed), making The Magicians Nephew book 1. If you see one of these collections, that would make Voyage of the Dawn Treader Book 5

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArt...d-.id-3205.html

I never read the books, but I saw the movie and thought Aslan was a real dick!

First he makes the rest think Lucy's a little insane, if she even see him at all, then the rest of the kids sit around waiting for him to show up most of the time figuring he never will, then he saunters in at the last minute and everyone sort of grovels before him so quickly.

And seriously, his only response to Lucy's question about why he doesn't show up/help is that "Nothing ever happens the same way twice"?! What sort of lame non-sequitor excuse is that..

 

Perhaps the book is better in this case, but I wouldn't know not having read them. I felt the movie was a real let down for being 2 1/2 hours long. The 4 sibling characters were flat and tasteless as cardboard and went thru no character development. They were just sort of "there" to fill some generic roles. For having lived as a king of some 20? 30? years, Peter sure didn't act very as a ruler or king would. There was no authority, confidence (faked or otherwise) in his actions.. If any of them had ever matured to adulthood, they sure didn't show it, nor did they seem to mind being trapped in their kid bodies and minds.

Prince Caspian, although looking very sharp on screen, was a ridiculous mockery of yet another fantasy sterotype. He was as bland as he was beautiful. And the "love" story? gah... that was pathetic, with a bone tossed to appease the audiences with a last kiss. It would have been so much more interesting to see the conflict of Susan's maturity warring with her young body and desires and the immaturity of Prince Caspian. She certainly would have let him have it! And.. wait, he's the star right.. the book is after all "Prince Caspian"?

 

It's a sad story when the real show is stolen by the bad guy (Caspian's Uncle) and his character had more depth and meat than there was on the ribs of Aslan's paper thin character.

 

The Ice queen and Aslan just sort of make forgettable cameo appearances. When the ice queen first showed up, I thought, okay! now here's where it's going to get interesting. Some drama. Some stakes. But no... she lasts all of about 3 minutes on screen...

 

Two and a half hours! And the whole thing felt so pointless in the end.. almost as pointless as the first Narnia movie felt. I mean THAT was pointless.. everyone fights as if their lives depended on it, but they all come back to life in the end?? wtf.. how pointless is that.

But the second movie does one better, not only do only select "special" characters receive Lucy's amazing potion "ya just can't die!" but the entire conflict was unnecessary. If the 4 kids had never been called back to Narnia, the Prince would probably have escaped into exile, been killed off, and well, half the centaurs and other creatures wouldn't be dead. Of course they might not really be dead.. there was no blood after all

 

Well, I can say that the 2nd movie was better than the first, and the costumes were very nice, as was the set work. But realism aside (yeah, Susan firing arrow after arrow straight thru plate mail at melee range is a bit hard to buy, even w/ her magic bow).. the worst part is that I felt like I was watching a throwback to the TV cartoons from the 80's. Where each episode, the good guys fight the bad guys, but "oh no!" the bad guys are outnumbering them, and it's looking very bleak, but wait, let's activate our secret weapon! BOOM! the enemy is routed and destroyed by the secret weapon that has been sitting there for one reason for another. Wild drunken celebration ensues. Next episode, rinse and repeat.

 

In the end, Aslan just comes off as a real ass in second movie.. and the groveling of the kids is so unbecoming.

As much as I love fantasy and science fiction, there is just so much bad stuff out there sometimes!

Oh and I didn't really see a lot of parallels between Aslan and Christianity I guess, although sometimes the movie just continuously hit you over the head with "I just gotta believe". At least the swordfights were fairly well done.

Reading the book is an absolute must. Granted, it really is my least favorite of the series, because in all honesty…not much happens.

 

This book as it is written, is probably the least Screen friendly of the 7. In the book, the 4 children take a lot more time figuring out they really ARE back in Narnia. The beginning of the movie is Trumpkin’s story of Prince Caspian’s History (told to the 4 children after his rescue) radically condensed (so yes, the book does actually focus more on Caspian).

 

In the book, the romance is nonexistent (I thought it was a nice touch for the movie).

The storming of Miraz’s castle DOES NOT HAPPEN at all (this was added to make the tale more movie friendly).

Peter and Caspian do NOT have personality conflict at all, and Peter does NOT have aggressive issues as he does in the movie. Much is talked about the air of Narnia working on them, and they become less and less like children and more like their royal selves by the time they reach Caspian.

 

In the book, really very little ‘happens’.

1. The 4 get whisked off the platform into Narnia

2. They come to realize they are in Narnia a thousand or more years later

3. They save Trumpkin

4. Trumpkin tells the history of Prince Caspian, the building of the Old Narnian army, and the battle difficulties happening at Aslan’s How. The blowing of Susan’s Horn was a desperate measure after several hard defeats (Miraz sets out an army to eradicate Old Narnians as their existence is discovered in the process of searching for Caspian), and Trumpkin was caught on his way to the ruins of Cair Paravel to see what result, if any, the blowing of Susan’s horn would have.

5. Much time is spent travelling to the How. The stuff with Lucy does happen here…and the next night Aslan insists she follow him. It’s more of a ‘quit letting you siblings decide everything just because you are the youngest’ really. They all follow Lucy begrudgingly (except for Edmund who never forgot his first hard lesson in Narnia) until Aslan appears to all of them one by one (So NO he doesn’t saunter in at the last minute at all).

6. The boys and Trumpkin go on to the How and deal with the Hag and Werewolf (the White witch never has an opportunity to appear). The girls go off with Aslan to wake the wood, party with Bacchus, unchain the River, and free the “good” people of the villages from tyranny.

7. Peter challenges Miraz. (This all happens pretty much the way it does in the movie). There is a battle, the Telmarines retreat to the river, and find the bridge gone. They surrender.

8. Aslan offers to send any Telmarine who does not wish to live in equality with Talking animals, dwarves, fauns, tree, and river folk back to their original home. The Telmarines are apprehensive (after seeing the first brave volunteer who Aslan blessed disappear) until the 4 children offer to go through first. They make a line, with the children leading.

9. Children are back on the platform.

 

A lot of talking. Relatively interesting for a book, but really very thin visually.

As for the movie, I was fine with all the changes they’d made, except for the order in which Aslan finally appears to everyone there at the end. That was messy. And it really makes it look like Aslan does very little, which is not true in the book.

 

BTW going down on one knee before Aslan is not groveling. Aslan is a King. Going down on one knee is courtly behavior. The movie is enjoyable, but it really is more for people who have read the book, and know that this book doesn’t translate well to film…and how the movie makers are going to get around that.

I must've been the only Christian I ever knew that HATED The Chronicles of Narnia with a passion. I can't stand Lewis, his writing, his characters, etc. This is meant in no offense at all to those who loved Aslan as a character, or as a pseudo-replacement Christ, it's just saying that I hate Lewis' writing.

I'm with you, Rhia. Even as a Christian, I too hated Narnia. Granted, I only read the first book, so maybe it gets better later on, but I have little motivation to find out when there's so many other better fantasy books out there. I personally thought The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe was really dull and predictable. It's basically your cliched ordinary kids get sent into another dimension and go on a coming-of-age quest to save the world storyline but it doesn't bother to do anything original with itself. You can tell everything that's going to happen before it even does. Aslan's death didn't invoke any sort of emotion from me because you already knew ahead of time that Aslan was going to make it out ok and you never feel like the kids go through any real danger because the writing is so obvious that you know they're going to make it out ok. I found all of the characters to be boring and uninteresting. Lucy was too much of a goody-two shoes for my tastes. I prefer more flawed main characters myself. Susan was an utterly pointless filler-in character and Peter just rubbed me in the wrong way for some reason. Edmund was the only character I remotely liked because he was the only one of the kids that actually questioned Aslan's authority and he was the only one who went through any sort of character development.

 

I thought it was kind of silly and cheesy that everyone just automatically accepted Aslan's authority without any sort of questioning based on nothing more than a emotional feeling. I also thought the White Witch was a boring villain. She was just your stereotypical cliched villain who wants to take over the world for no other reason than just because she's evil and I can't stand those stereotypical "I R ebil" villains. I prefer antagonists to be more multi-layered shades of gray characters as opposed to the more predictable good vs. evil cardboard cut-outs. Some things in the story also felt far too cheesy to me, like Santa Claus randomly showing up to help save the day. Lewis' writing style also really annoyed me. Part of what I love about fantasy so much is the epic magic battles but Lewis was way too sparse on the details for my taste. It's like there's very little magical battles at all and any action that does takes place at all is mostly focused on Aslan. Disney even had to come up with their own action scenes to fill in the lack of details for the movie version, so even they knew that Lewis' writing was sparse in details. Plus, it was kind of cheesy when Lewis wrote in a way that sounded like he was reading a story to a group of kids which feels unnatural when you're reading a book to me. And some things about the writing style just feel silly to me like when Lewis tells his readers in parenthesis which characters are going to play a major role in the story and which ones aren't. Someone obviously never taught Lewis the rule of show, not tell when it comes to writing. Maybe I would have enjoyed Narnia more if I had read it as a kid, but I enjoy most other fantasy books just fine yet Narnia is just too cheesy and predictable for me.

Reading the books versus >>>>>> watching the film or even the old BBC series. The books give you the impression of the characters as Lewis intended them. Any dramatization just gives you one interpretation of that, and even an interpretation of an interpretation of that. Important lines are cut out, important scenes for understanding the plot *properly* are sometimes cut or altered etc etc. If you've read the Lord of the Rings and have seen the movies by Peter Jackson, you ought to know what I'm talking about. Tom Bombadil isn't in the LOTR movies for instance, though he saves the Hobbits' lives early on in the book. Instead, in order to "give him a presence" in the movie anyway, they decided to give some of his lines to Treebeard. So they cut and paste and take a bit from here and move it there. I really don't think anyone could be given a good impression of any of the characters simply by seeing the movies, (unless accompanied by the BBC series) well with the exception of Lucy and Peter.

 

Examples:

 

In my opinion, the portrait of Aslan wasn't very good at all in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe Film.

In the new Prince Caspian Film, they put way too little emphasis on the "lost in the woods", and I'm wondering if they ever even mentioned Trumpkin's name.

Reepicheep was awesome though, by far one of my favourite characters.

Reepicheep was awesome though, by far one of my favourite characters.

 

If there is any character who was done justice...it was Reepicheep!!!!

 

Hope Eddie Izzard comes back for Voyage of the Dawn Treader to do the voice. That is where Reepicheep really steals the story!

Reepicheep was awesome though, by far one of my favourite characters.

 

If there is any character who was done justice...it was Reepicheep!!!!

 

Hope Eddie Izzard comes back for Voyage of the Dawn Treader to do the voice. That is where Reepicheep really steals the story!

 

Yeah, Reepicheep is great. Valiant, chivalrous, loyal and eloquent. I'll never forget the scene where Eustace meets him for the first time.

Yeah, CATS RULE, and I would have no problem worshipping a CAT.

 

Wait a minute... I already DO. In fact I have four little gods running around our house, and I jump at their every Command!

 

In fact, there are Ten, WAIT Eleven Catmandments:

 

1. THOU SHALT FEED US THE STUFF IN THE ROUND SHINY THING THAT SMELLS LIKE ROTTEN FISH, FOR IT TASTES GOOD AND MAKETH US PURR

 

2. THOU SHALT LET US OUT WHEN WE YOWL, FOR THE OUTSIDE IS PLEASURABLE IN THE SIGHT OF CATS

 

3. THOU SHALT NOT TAKE ANY DOG OR OTHER UNCLEAN ANIMAL AS THY FAVORITE PET WHEN THOU DOST ALREADY SERVE A CAT

 

4. THOU SHALT MAKE FOR CATS A LAP FOR THEM TO LIE UPON WHENEVER THEY DESIRE IT

 

5. THOU SHALT PET US WITH THINE HANDS ONLY WHEN WE ARE IN THE MOOD TO BE PETTED, FOR TO PET A CAT WHO DOST NOT DESIRE PETTING IS BLASPHEMY AND SHALT BE PUNISHED WITH MUCH GROWLING AND URINATING IN THY FAVORITE CLOTHING

 

6. THOU SHALT NOT FORBID THE CAT WHICH THOU DOST SERVE TO JUMP UPON THE COUNTERS, TABLES OR OTHER FURNITURE OF THY DWELLING

 

7. THOU SHALT PROVIDE A SCRATCHING POST WHEREUPON CATS MAY SHARPEN THEIR CLAWS. BUT IF YE HAVE NOT A SCRATCHING POST, THOU MUST NOT FORBID THY CAT WHICH THOU DOST SERVE TO SCRATCH UPON THY FURNITURE

 

8. THOU SHALT REVERE THE "YOWL" FOR IT IS A HOLY SOUND

 

9. THOU SHALT FEED THE CAT WHICH THOU SERVEST THAT WHICH THE CAT DESIRES AND NOT SUBSTITUTE ANY LESSER FOODS, FOR THAT IS ABOMINATION

 

10. THOU SHALT NOT WAKE THE CAT WHICH THOU SERVEST WHEN HE IS SLEEPING, NO MATTER WHERE HE HAST CHOSEN TO SLEEP, EVEN IF IT IS IN THINE UNDERWARE DRAWER OR THINE SINK, FOR SLEEP IS HOLY IN THE SIGHT OF CATS

 

Edited to add the all-important Eleventh Catmandment:

 

11. THOU SHALT PRIVIDE FOR US A TOY WHICH DOST SQUEEK, OR SOME OTHER SUCH FURRY OBJECT, FOR US TO BAT ABOUT WITH OUR PAWS. FOR TO PLAY IS OUR DESIRE WHEN WE ARE NOT EATING OR SLEEPING IN THINE UNDERWARE DRAWER.

lol Zenobia!

Christians used to brag-up the C.S. Lewis books as works of inspiration devoted to morals of virtue. They were considered religious fiction at one time. Now over the last several years since the first movie, I've heard nothing but bad comments from xtians about the books and movies. Like Lord of the Rings, which once were also given high praises by the xtian funny-mentals, that is also being slandered by xtians.

 

But for the Chronicles of Narnia to get such bad press from the religious right, this demonstrates a new theology is coming that will attempt to impose itself upon written and creative works of art (movies) that may have a slight or noticeable meaning that may criticise the funny-mental version of that same book or movie. In other words, the xtians want to control Hollywood and run out all of the godless movie makers. We have not seen the end of book and movie burnings in this country.

 

The comparison of Aslan to Jesus resurrection was a lot like the ones made in comparison to the Matrix and Neo--one of my all-time favorite movies. It took me two years to convince a fundy friend that the Matrix was not about jesus and more in line with the legend of Arthur--the final movie shoed him floating off towars what could have been seen as Avalon in theMatrix.

 

A perverted mind set against humanity only sees perverted things in harmless works of fiction or nonfiction. A well-developed mind sees the purity and expression of the author, artist or actor, as a means of bringing a character to life. The fact that the stories do not reflect Jesus' ministry in every book demonstrates the religious loon factions' determination to absolutely ruin any works of fiction that do not comply with their demands.

Christians used to brag-up the C.S. Lewis books as works of inspiration devoted to morals of virtue. They were considered religious fiction at one time. Now over the last several years since the first movie, I've heard nothing but bad comments from xtians about the books and movies. Like Lord of the Rings, which once were also given high praises by the xtian funny-mentals, that is also being slandered by xtians.

 

But for the Chronicles of Narnia to get such bad press from the religious right, this demonstrates a new theology is coming that will attempt to impose itself upon written and creative works of art (movies) that may have a slight or noticeable meaning that may criticise the funny-mental version of that same book or movie. In other words, the xtians want to control Hollywood and run out all of the godless movie makers. We have not seen the end of book and movie burnings in this country.

I don't know if it's simply for controlling Hollywood but I think they also time their complaints for when they can get the most attention. It's like The Golden Compass book has been around for over ten years and I had never even known of its existence until recently, but they're only suddenly now complaining about it just as the movie was released. It was the same thing for Harry Potter where the books were virtually unknown until the movies came out and then suddenly Christians started whining about it. Now the books have ended and suddenly they've stopped complaining as much. Coincidence? It's like they really don't care about the well-being of kids and only complain when these things are popular and successful, so they just want to be attention whores.

It's like The Golden Compass book has been around for over ten years and I had never even known of its existence until recently, but they're only suddenly now complaining about it just as the movie was released. It was the same thing for Harry Potter where the books were virtually unknown until the movies came out and then suddenly Christians started whining about it. Now the books have ended and suddenly they've stopped complaining as much. Coincidence? It's like they really don't care about the well-being of kids and only complain when these things are popular and successful, so they just want to be attention whores.

 

Maybe the loud whiney ones are just ILLITERATE and couldn't read the books. They protest the MOVIES because that's the only form of story-telling their tiny brains can absorb.

I admittedly liked Aslan better then Jesus, but at the same time I did not like Narnia as well as I like LOTR or Thomas Covenant or Earthsea. I just did not find Narnia as imaginative as some of the other fantasy books I had read at the time. Also the reading level of Narnia was so simplistic compared to the other books I was reading in middle school. However, if Aslan was real, sure I would follow him around. Who can resist a big compassionate kitty-cat?

 

I find it interesting that Christians are annoyed with Narnia now. Besides Narnia, what other material do they have to offer? After C.S. Lewis, Christian literature certainly went downhill (Left Behind is a joke and doesn't even compare to C.S. Lewis or Tolkien as literary work).