Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

** Bird Flu is back! **

2 views
Skip to first unread message

Stu

unread,
Nov 12, 2007, 1:42:17 PM11/12/07
to

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm

We're ALL going to die! :-((((((

Message has been deleted

Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 12, 2007, 3:50:27 PM11/12/07
to

"Malcolm" <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cm7x76YK...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <h37hj3p69j5gc5iji...@4ax.com>, Stu
> <m...@privacy.net> writes

>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm
>>
>>We're ALL going to die! :-((((((
>
> Why, are you a turkey?
>
and if so, has he voted for Christmas?

Jim Webster


Mogga

unread,
Nov 12, 2007, 5:05:47 PM11/12/07
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:31:06 +0000, Malcolm
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>In article <h37hj3p69j5gc5iji...@4ax.com>, Stu
><m...@privacy.net> writes
>>

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm
>>
>>We're ALL going to die! :-((((((
>

>Why, are you a turkey?

Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

Message has been deleted

Gloria

unread,
Nov 12, 2007, 6:12:12 PM11/12/07
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:05:47 +0000, Mogga
><d...@nospamohpleasenospammogga.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:31:06 +0000, Malcolm
>><Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>In article <h37hj3p69j5gc5iji...@4ax.com>, Stu
>>><m...@privacy.net> writes
>>>>
>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm
>>>>
>>>>We're ALL going to die! :-((((((
>>>
>>>Why, are you a turkey?
>>
>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>

>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!

That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!

pam the SPAMMERS send an email to enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk

Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 2:09:20 AM11/13/07
to

"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jdnhj311dorq6tik4...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
>>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>>
>>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!
>
> That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!
>

exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose

Jim Webster


Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 3:07:19 AM11/13/07
to

It doesn't matter what you buy, if the farm is filthy and a breeding
ground for disease.

Far better to go veggie, really look after yourself.

Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 5:30:35 AM11/13/07
to

"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5nmij3dohoqnm0i2f...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:09:20 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> <j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jdnhj311dorq6tik4...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
>> >>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>>>>
>>>>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!
>>>
>>> That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!
>>>
>>
>>exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>>
>
> It doesn't matter what you buy, if the farm is filthy and a breeding
> ground for disease.

ah, you mean organic where they use animal dung


Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 5:55:03 AM11/13/07
to
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:30:35 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:5nmij3dohoqnm0i2f...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:09:20 -0000, "Jim Webster"
>> <j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:jdnhj311dorq6tik4...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
>>> >>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!
>>>>
>>>> That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!
>>>>
>>>
>>>exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter what you buy, if the farm is filthy and a breeding
>> ground for disease.
>
>ah, you mean organic where they use animal dung

Far better than diseased human waste and dead animal products like
chicken blood......

Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 6:06:23 AM11/13/07
to

"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2g0jj3plbfv60ckfj...@4ax.com...
all of which are allowed under organic systems

What do you do with your human waste, have the water company tip it into the
sea?


Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 6:08:12 AM11/13/07
to
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:30:35 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:5nmij3dohoqnm0i2f...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:09:20 -0000, "Jim Webster"
>> <j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:jdnhj311dorq6tik4...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
>>> >>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!
>>>>
>>>> That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!
>>>>
>>>
>>>exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter what you buy, if the farm is filthy and a breeding
>> ground for disease.
>
>ah, you mean organic where they use animal dung
>

Toxic Fertilizer linked to Mad Cow Disease?


Environmental poisoning

Practical Health

Save the environment

About three years ago the LA Times published an Associated Press
article "Toxic Waste Used as Fertilizer on Farms Reported".

The article stated that in Seattle, toxic heavy metals, chemicals and
radioactive wastes are being recycled as fertilizer and spread over
farmers' field nationwide--and there is no federal law requiring that
they be listed as ingredients.

The issue came to light in the central Washington town of Quincy,
population 4,000, when Mayor Patty Martin led an investigation by
local farmers concerned about poor yields and sickly cattle [see WA
Free Press "Poisoning Ourselves: Toxic waste in fertilizer" Mar 2003
--Ed]. Unfortunately, at this time the use of industrial waste as
fertilizer ingredient was a growing national phenomenon.

At that same time in Gore, Oklahoma, a uranium-processing plant got
rid of low-level radioactive waste by licensing it as liquid
fertilizer and spraying it over 9,000 acres if grazing land. And at
Camas, Washington, lead-laced waste from a pulp mill was hauled to
farms and spread over crops destined for livestock feed. While in
Moxee City, Washington, dark powder from two Oregon steel mills was
poured from rail cars into silos at Bay Zinc Co. under a federal
hazardous waste storage permit. Then it was emptied from the silos for
use as fertilizer. The exact same material.

The Federal and State Governments encouraged this kind of recycling,
which saved money for big industry and conserved space in hazardous-
waste landfills. However, the substances found in recycled fertilizers
included cadmium, lead, arsenic, radioactive materials and dioxins.
The wastes came from incineration of medical and municipal wastes, and
from heavy industries.

Because I happen to run the newest state permitted medical waste
treatment plant in California, and am acutely aware of the hazards of
treating such waste, I ask: Why isn't this recycled fertilizer brought
up now in the case of Mad Cow Disease. Why did are Federal and State
Government allow such contamination and why did the farmers do this to
their own land? Who is covering this up? Who benefited from this
travesty? Who approved this in the first place? And why isn't anything
being done to those who allowed this to happen to our nation's
heartland?

I for one want answers. And I want those responsible for this to be
brought to justice. They deliberately poisoned our nations food chain
for profit, and should be punished as traitors to the American people.

Karl Niemiec, Director of Media Services, Sanitec West, CA

Inge's Added Comment: The regulators definitely need regulating. One
has to wonder if they are actually living on the same planet, for they
and their families will also have to live in the nest that they are
fouling. There is just one environment, and one ecology.

For over a half century - starting with the Dilution Solution to
Pollution for Fluoride - the "non-storable industrial toxic waste"
which was then marketed by the invented "tooth-fairy" . In order to
claim the prevention of "tooth decay", they had to embark on a massive
propaganda campaign of TRUTH DECAY! Apparently "toxic" can be
translated into "beneficial" if one changes a few definitions and
dogmas - and makes pseudo-scientific DECLARATIONS of "indisputable and
indispensable benefit".

Interestingly the Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany were using
fluoride well before the "tooth-fairy" tail. This begs the question as
to why they are so eager subject us to it and "explains much about why
Americans are so apathetic and lethargic about the very real dangers
crushing our Republic. The American people simply have no will to
resist and you can see it all across this country. Fluoride was
introduced into the drinking water in this country around 1954. Think
about it."....

Extracted from: Fluoride To Make Prisoners 'stupid & Docile - CG

Apparently they are still at it. Persuade the public that these
"toxics" are harmless, indeed, even "good for you", and disperse it
under the umbrella of "fertilizer". How convenient! Apparently "heavy
metals spread everywhere" levels the playing field - and everyone will
be able to share equally in the bonanza of free toxic metals and
industrial chemicals..

At one point of this kind of "solution insanity", radioactive sludge
was dispersed as fertilizer - unfortunately the frogs turned up with
extra legs, or none - and that was too noticeable to be denied. Our
corporation-controlled "democratic" governments continue to pursue the
"let's just disperse the poison everywhere - hope that no one notices
- and just cover it all up with secrecy and/or plenty of propaganda -
PR - Predictable Rhetoric - from hired "science-shills".

As part of the equation: There will never be enough money in the
tax-payer kitty to pay for the health-destruction consequences - one
of which is a population that is so brain/nerve damaged that it is
unable to function. We already have an unsupportable number of
children - classified as 'special needs' - who are not capable of
functioning normally, without extra-ordinary support. How many more
children are we prepared to sacrifice?

If government agendas, government regulations, and government
propaganda and pseudo-science would stop CREATING the health-breakdown
problems, the medical budget would be more than adequate. As long as
government pursues the path of health and environmental destruction,
there is no amount of money that will remedy or reverse the
unpardonable, but preventable, consequences.

Folks, this is our environment, our soil, our food, our water, our
SURVIVAL. Keep the nest clean! Even if it means that we ALL have to
get out of our easy chairs and take a definite and unrelenting stand.
These government "solution-finders - (ignoramouses or criminals) must
be held to account before they wreak this kind of irreversible toxic
damage on all those whom they are "supposedly" mandated to protect.
God, Protect me from these protectors!

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:42:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: chris abbott chrisabb...@yahoo.ca

Action Alert

BC PROPOSES TOXIC WASTE TO FERTILIZE CROPS

B.C.
They are at it again! The BC government is proposing, after only 30
days internet based consultation, to allow the almost uncontrolled
landspreading of pulp mill sludge, lime dregs, and fly ash (that’s the
stuff out of the pollution control devices at the top of the stack –
they catch the pollution that now BC Environment wants to spread on
farmland.)

The Code of Practice requires testing for only 11 metals – worse than
the last time out in 2000, when at least the sludge was required to be
tested for all the compounds listed in the Contaminated Sites Act!
Even then we protested that this was inadequate because of the mix of
compounds in pulp mill sludge: No one knows all of the contaminants in
pulp mill sludge. We do know that it contains a variety of heavy
metals, and chlorinated and non-chlorinated benzenes and phenolics
(PAH) and that the amount appears to vary from sample to sample. Nor
does anyone know what the actual environmental impacts of
landspreading sludge are, because for almost 25 years, industry across
North America has been denying environmentalists’ efforts to get some
honest testing done.

The new Code of Practice has no recourse for neighbours of the sludge
site, does not require records to be publicly available, and throws
the burden on to the medical health officers to object if the
application is to agricultural land or within a drinking watershed.
Even then, all the medical health officer could do is request that the
Regional Environment Director add additional management standards.

Looking at the few criteria the regulation does establish, the
presentation may be called at best, disingenuous. The BC Statement Of
Intentions For The Code Of Practice says: “Most of these numbers are
consistent with the standards for metals in fertilizers and
supplements established by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and
adopted by the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment (CCME)
Guidelines for Compost Quality.”
However closer examination reveals that NONE of the metals levels meet
the CCME standard for unrestricted or agricultural use, and in the
case of mercury the BC reg even exceeds by three times the CCME
maximum acceptable level for restricted use!

The regulation proposes that sludge should be handled in compliance
with the Organic Matter Recycling Regulation, primarily intended for
sewage sludge not industrial waste, but a ministry audit of 10
Vancouver island sewage sludge operations in 2003-04 found that
“Overall, none of the sites met all significant requirements of the
OMRR.”Organic Matter Recycling Regulation Audit Report 2003-2004,


Chris Abbott

Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 6:48:50 AM11/13/07
to
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:06:23 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:2g0jj3plbfv60ckfj...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:30:35 -0000, "Jim Webster"
>> <j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:5nmij3dohoqnm0i2f...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:09:20 -0000, "Jim Webster"
>>>> <j...@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Gloria" <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>news:jdnhj311dorq6tik4...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:04:26 GMT, Willie <dav...@guesswhere.co.uk>
>>>>> >>>Didn't this happen this close to turkey-eating season last year?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's just to shove up the price of turkeys!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That wont matter unless you're stupid enough to buy one!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't matter what you buy, if the farm is filthy and a breeding
>>>> ground for disease.
>>>
>>>ah, you mean organic where they use animal dung
>>
>> Far better than diseased human waste and dead animal products like
>> chicken blood......
>>
>all of which are allowed under organic systems

You are quite right, although used far less and with greater care than
the standard farming practice of dumping anything and everything on
the land.

Change is happening albeit slowly but surely.

http://tinyurl.com/2x77re

GROWING WITHOUT CRUELTY - THE VEGAN-ORGANIC APPROACH
Foot and mouth, BSE, health concerns, environmental worries and
concerns for animal welfare have brought conventional growing methods
into the spotlight. This has led to serious calls for a switch to
sustainable non-animal farming and grow your own schemes.

Farmers all over the world are, however, locked into reliance on
chemicals and animal by-products and do not know how to extricate
themselves from this if they wanted to. Vegans buying or growing their
own food may also believe that the prospect of growing organically
without animal derived material is impractical or downright
impossible.

This highlights a dilemma faced by most vegans all over the world: we
don't want to consume animal derived food but the fact is that animal
manures and slaughterhouse by products are used extensively to grow
our groceries - especially if we buy 'organic.' Indeed, vegans have
been accused of hypocrisy over this very issue by those who say that
animals are essential to the production of food, whether or not we
choose to eat them. So are vegans hypocrites? Is there anything we can
do as individuals?

Well, yes there is something we can do. Firstly, we can understand
(and tell other people) that animal free food growing is not only
perfectly possible, but also environmentally essential. All life
ultimately depends on plants, and the plants do not have to be
wastefully passed through an animal in order to work. Those who say
that animals are an essential part of agriculture have been
conclusively proved wrong by the commercial growers who use animal
free techniques and by government sponsored research into the subject.
Animal based agriculture is in fact harming the world's environment.
Governments and the public around the world have only limited
awareness of these facts; although of course various governments have
at least taken some positive steps, such as the encouragement of
farmers to develop woodland industries in certain parts of the UK.

Then we can think about growing our own and we can do this using
animal free techniques, which are not difficult to master on a small
scale. Instead of spreading animal manures and slaughterhouse waste
products on the land we can use time-honoured techniques such as
composts, green manures and crop rotations for growing over 60
different vegetables in our UK climate. We can also grow perennial
crops including perennial vegetables like artichokes and asparagus,
perennial soft fruit like strawberries, raspberries and currants and
tree crops like apples, cherries and nuts.

You will certainly not be alone! Various groups exist to help out and
many are listed below. The Vegan Organic Trust (VOT) and the Movement
for Compassionate Living (MCL) are vegan led groups able to help the
home grower. These and other groups offer their members advice,
guidance notes, contacts with other groups and individuals, and
regular magazines. In addition, they give a wealth of information
about the many things that are happening worldwide on the animal free
food front. They give a really practical insight into what individuals
and groups can do for themselves. The Vegan magazine also regularly
runs a full page on the subject of vegan organics. Of particular
interest both VOT and MCL are currently producing books for growers
and gardeners with comprehensive information about animal free
growing. You can keep up to date on final publication dates through
their magazines.

Whether or not we grow some of our own food at present, it is still
possible for us to support the organisations that promote animal free
growing, and thereby lend a hand in the movement towards a cruelty
free world. The option of buying animal/cruelty free food is open to
very few of us at the moment, unless we live near to one of the small
number of commercial vegan organic producers.

There are one thousand million reasons for taking the steps mentioned
above; this being a conservative estimate of the number of sentient
creatures killed just in the UK every year to provide food and raw
materials for the UK population.


VEGAN-ORGANICS - THE BASICS
Vegan-organics is, briefly, any system of cultivation that avoids
artificial chemicals and sprays, GMOs, livestock manures and animal
remains from slaughterhouses or fish processing etc. Alternatively,
fertility is maintained by vegetable composts, green manures, crop
rotation, mulches, and any other method that is sustainable,
ecologically viable and not dependent upon animal exploitation. This
will ensure long-term fertility, and wholesome food for this and
future generations.

Whilst conventional cultivation farming relies on synthetic chemicals
and animal products, traditional organic production also generally
relies on animal wastes and by-products. Both can be seen to have the
exploitation of living creatures in common, with conventional
agriculture also leading to terrible health, social, economic and
environmental problems. Vegan-Organic methods involve none of these
drawbacks. Many people who are not themselves vegan or vegetarian are
coming to appreciate these benefits of animal free growing.


Growing without cruelty
Organic growing involves treating the soil, the growing environment,
and the world environment as a resource to be husbanded for future
generations, rather than exploited in the short term. The maxim of
organic growing is to feed the soil and the soil will feed the plants.

Vegan organics means doing this without any animal products at all,
which is not difficult when you know how! The guidelines below do not
attempt to be fully comprehensive. The Vegan Organic Trust has
produced comprehensive standards, which will apply to commercial
growers and will also be a reference for home growers, who can choose
to apply them to whatever extent they wish. Of course, spreading the
message involves everyone sharing their experiences and knowledge, and
this is where the various vegan groups come in.


Here is some advice about growing your own crops
First of all, remember to use appropriate protective clothing; some
materials such as limestone, can irritate the eyes and skin, as can
some plants such as comfrey (not to mention nettles!).

Preparing the soil

Most bacterial activity and soil organisms live in the top few inches
of the soil helping to create drainage and build up fertility.
Constantly digging the soil and exposing it to erosion from the
elements disturbs the natural balance resulting in the loss of
availability of organic matter and the breakdown of soil structure.
When cropping you need to constantly replenish soil organic matter
levels by the addition of plant-based composts, mulches and by using
plants grown to improve fertility i.e. green manures. With the
exception of green manures, digging is not necessary for incorporating
materials as organic matter spread on the surface will soon be dawn
under by worm activity and plant nutrients will be available at root
level and not be buried out of reach.

It is advisable to dig heavy clays as exposure to frost and rain can
result in a more workable soil, especially over winter. Compaction,
caused by standing or running the wheelbarrow over the soil when it is
too wet, can be avoided by making permanent beds that are never stood
on. These can be timber lined as raised beds, with soil from the paths
being placed on the beds to raise them. Where soil has been compacted
it may be loosened by forking.

When clearing land for the first time it is important to remove all
the perennial weeds such as bind weed, couch grass, ground elder and
horsetail whose roots are deep and wide spreading. Dandelions, docks
and thistles have a long taproot. You remove them through a process of
digging a trench, a spade depths across an area. Work backwards by
pushing the soil continually forward, almost like a sieving process so
that you can inspect every part of the soil and remove all the weeds.
Do not stand on your new soil tilth!. Finally when all the weeds are
removed rake the soil level with the back of the rake to reduce
hillocks and mounds. All weeds will re-grow from a small piece left in
the ground so it is important that you are thorough.

After digging, the soil will soon be covered by germinating weeds
blown in or brought in by birds etc. therefore it is important to
manage weeds so that they do not out compete the crop. Weeding is a
constant task for the vegan organic grower but it is always easier to
hoe small weeds when they are at the white stringy stage rather than
having to up root established weed clumps by hand which is far more
arduous.

Weeds are not all bad as they contain nutrients that have been brought
to the surface level via the roots. Rather than waste this valuable
resource, annual weeds [if not seeding!] can be composted and
perennials can be chopped and added to water to make a liquid feed, as
outlined below.

Mulching and no dig

Mulching is the method of applying organic matter to the soil surface,
providing a constant supply of material to break down, suppressing
weed growth, ensuring more even soil temperature and moisture. Mulch
can be applied at any time except when the soil is frozen or dry.

When using no dig methods, weed-infested sites can be cleared by
firstly covering with a barrier e.g. cardboard boxes, flattened and
wetted, newspapers (avoiding toxic coloured inks), carpets or coconut
matting (only those made from natural materials such as hessian and
cotton avoiding synthetic mixtures and foam backing). A sufficient
quantity of organic material is then spread over the barrier. Plants
can be planted into holes cut into the barrier. Any weeds growing out
of the planting holes can be removed by hand. After two years of
covering weed-infested land, most perennial weeds should have died
off.

Organic material

Obtaining sufficient organic matter is often the most difficult aspect
of vegan-organic gardening. These are some potential sources.


Grass cuttings- rich in nutrients, mix with compost or fork into the
top of the soil, or use as a mulch.
Old hay- ideal for mulching, containing a balance of nutrients. It
must be at least a year or two old so that no seeds will germinate.
Spent hops -an excellent soil conditioner, containing some nitrogen,
available from many breweries.
Tree leaves -obtainable from your own trees or from local councils. Be
careful of street trees, which may contain litter, dog faeces or lead
pollution.
Comfrey -leaves can be cut when ready and added to water to make a
liquid feed (see HDRA leaflet) or applied when wilted; you can grow
your own comfrey for this purpose.
Composted garden waste -Some councils now have recycling centres where
garden waste is shredded, composted, bagged and sold as soil
conditioner.
Compost -All organic material from your own kitchen and garden or from
local suppliers can be composted (see HDRA leaflets) using cooked food
is not recommended.
Seaweed -use washed up seaweed, stack and allow rain to wash out salt,
or buy seaweed meal.
Ramial - the shredded growth of young branches and leaves; contact VOT
for details.
Green Manures

There are many plants that can be grown in order to increase the
fertility and humus content of the soil. Basically you sow the seed
and allow the plant to grow then cut it down before it flowers. Many
gardeners will then incorporate this into the soil, though it is also
possible to either let it break down in situ or to remove it and
compost it. A number of green manure crops, in particular peas, beans,
clovers and winter tares will enrich the soil with nitrogen as well as
providing organic matter. Green manures have many benefits and can be
grown as catch crops in land that would otherwise be empty. Species to
consider include buckwheat, cereal rye, winter tares, clovers, and
alfalfa. Winter tares are good for heavy soil and lupins are good for
light sandy soil types.

Liquid Feeds

When properly carried out, organic systems should not need
supplementary additions as the soil provides all the necessary
nutrients. However, getting enough potash for your luscious fruiting
crops - tomatoes, cucumbers, aubergines and peppers may prove
difficult. It is possible to buy vegan liquid feeds or you can make
your own much more cheaply. The process is simple; you fill a
container, e.g. water butt with a tap, with plant material such as
comfrey, nettles or weeds. You then fill the container with water (and
you will be surprised how much water will fit in) and leave it for a
week or two. It will then be very smelly, and you dilute it by perhaps
3-1 with water and then pour it on the soil around the plants.
Alternatively you can increase the dilution and spray it over the
leaves of plants, preferably in the evening or on cloudy days. See
VOTs Information Sheet no 1 for fuller details.

Human Manure

Composting human manure properly requires great care and skill and
should only be attempted if you really know what you are doing. While
many consider humanure an essential part of a closed system, others
would only use faeces from vegans free from chemical intakes, and some
would reject this altogether. Your own urine is a strong and easily
handled fertiliser, dilute it and use it to activate the compost heap;
or add it to a small straw bale until the bale is saturated, (perhaps
using it as an outdoor strawbale urinal) then cover the bale and after
6 months or so you will have a heap of excellent compost.


There are some materials that we would not recommend: -
Peat - There has been a lot of publicity about peat bogs being
destroyed in order to provide peat for composts, mulching etc.
Calcified seaweed - This material is obtained from the temperate ocean
equivalent of coral reefs, and is being harvested in an unsustainable
way; it is being phased out of organic practice.
Spent mushroom compost -Just in case you were not aware of it, this
material is usually made from animal manures, especially horse manure.
It is also heavily polluted with all the chemicals they use in growing
mushrooms.
Coir - This is being used in increasing quantities as a peat
replacement. Although this is an excellent soil conditioner it is
imported from countries that need the fertility of their own soils
improving.
Slaked lime - is a by-product of the chemical industry. Dolomite and
ground limestone -has to be quarried, so should be used in moderation.
Pests and Diseases
Crops grown in a soil containing high levels of organic matter and
plant nutrients with a good soil structure and texture, will be
healthy plants, and will therefore have a greater resistance to
"pests" and diseases which tend to attack weaker, sappy plants.

There are many organic sprays available for treating pests and
diseases in plants. These are not recommended because whilst they are
not based on artificial chemicals, they can still be poisonous (e.g.
copper sulphate) to non-target insect species, many of which are very
beneficial in the garden. If you want to consider the alternatives to
spraying, then it is important that you adopt a holistic approach i.e.
use all of the following growing suggestions to increase your
likelihood of healthy crops. Think of 'pests' as 'competing organisms'
and you will feel better towards them!

Rotations

Pests and diseases spread in monoculture. It is important that you
adopt at least a four course rotation. A typical example is to split
your garden into four plots:


Potatoes and curcubits (courgette, marrow, squash)
Legumes (peas and beans) and alliums (onions and leeks)
Brassicas (cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, brussel sprout, turnip,
radish, swede, oriental salad leaves)
Salads, roots and miscellaneous (lettuce, chicory, beetroot, carrot,
parsnip, sweetcorn)
Each year the crops are rotated into different parts. So in Year One
potatoes are growing and they will be followed the next year by peas
etc. VOT can provide information about incorporating green manure leys
into rotations.

Providing habitat for predators to live

Providing permanent predator belts, including incorporating
undisturbed perennial plants, shrubs and trees for insects and beetles
to overwinter are all good ideas. Hedges are the best example of this.
It is also possible to provide annual predator belts by leaving
uncultivated strips between beds. Beneficial insects, birds and
mammals will not inhabit your garden unless they have a water body in
which to drink and places to shelter. Think about hedgehog shelters,
log piles, bark piles (favoured by ladybirds) compost heaps, lacewing
hotels and bird boxes.

Planting attractant species for beneficial insects

By planting aromatic species amongst your other plants you will find
that the incidence of pests and diseases will fall. Camomile, garlic
and many of the Mediterranean herbs are very useful here. Plants such
as borage, limanthes (poached egg plant) echium and members of the
umbellifer family (let several parsnips run to seed) attract predatory
insects such as hover flies, parasitic wasps and other insects.
Phacelia will attract bees and hoverflies and growing marigolds on the
bed perimeters will help reduce greenfly. Companion planting and mixed
cropping increases the biodiversity of plants and the insects it
attracts

Physical barriers and tempting the slugs!

The dreaded slugs (and snails) are bound to get any vegan organic
grower down. It is very important to try and be as tidy as possible in
the immediate growing area. Leaving things lying around, for example,
will give slugs a place to shelter. You can take advantage of this by,
laying rhubarb leaves on the ground to attract slugs to shelter there
- it is then a simple matter to collect the slugs up and move them,
especially after dark with a torch. Bear in mind that slugs and snails
have a homing instinct and will return if you do not move them far
enough away! Other things you can do are to place a circle of bran
around tender plants; copper tape around plants or guttering around
beds filled with sharp stone can be effective. For flying pests use
physical barriers like netting, fleeces, pop bottles as cloches and
collars around brassicas to prevent the cabbage root fly laying its
eggs.

Grow Perennial Species Where Possible

The gardening world, especially when it comes to growing food, is
becoming aware of the advantages of perennial crops. Thanks to the
pioneering work of amongst others, Ken Fern, Plants For a Future, and
Robert Hart's Forest Gardening techniques.

There are plenty of perennial food crops available. These are much
easier to grow - once established they will come back of their own
accord year after year. Very little research has been carried out on
perennial food crops, but if you would like more information on this
then we recommend you to contact Plants For A Future. This
organisation is vegan-organic; they have carried out extensive
research into alternative food crops and other useful species.


How do we know that horticultural products are animal free?
It can be very difficult to ensure that purchased material such as
compost is truly free from animal by-products; the word 'organic'
often means that poultry manure, fish emulsion or slaughterhouse
by-products are included. Question the manufacturers carefully;
consult the Animal-Free Shopper or Vegan-Organic Trust. The Organic
Gardening Catalogue (see below) lists animal free products.

One common problem is obtaining vegan-organic compost for potting
plants, raising seedlings etc. this can be obtained by post from the
Organic Gardening Catalogue (see below) but is costly to obtain this
way. A good easily available product is B&Q multipurpose organic
compost; this is peat-free, GM-free and free from animal ingredients
(it says so on the bag! But its also been checked out by Vegan-Organic
Trust). To use this for raising small seeds first sieve out any larger
bits of material and try mixing a little sharp sand with the compost
before sowing. See also suppliers below.


And what about worm composters?
Indoor or outdoor 'wormeries' are promoted as a means of using up
small amounts of household waste. For vegans these are not such a good
idea because unlike ordinary compost heaps, the worms cannot move to
the soil and worm populations are often killed by neglect.


And it's not just fruit and veg.....
Indoor plants, flowers, shrubs and in fact every growing thing can be
cultivated using the above methods. Roses shrubs and trees can be
mulched and fed using vegan-organic composts and liquid feeds.

It is possible to make a smell-free liquid feed for indoor plants
using seaweed meal. Put three flat tablespoons of seaweed meal into
two litres of water, preferably in a glass bottle; leave to marinate
for two to three weeks or more. Every month in the growing season feed
plants with one mugful of this brew in two litres of water, shake the
bottle well before use. This brew may not be very high in available
nitrogen and/or potash, which pot plants do not usually need too much
of.


Resources
Organisations and groups promoting vegan-organic growing


Vegan-Organic Trust, Patrick Browne, 161 Hamilton Rd, Longsight,
Manchester M13 0PQ Tel: 0161 248 9224 email: vegano...@riseup.net
An international educational charity providing information and
research on vegan-organic methods. The charity's supporter network is
known as VON. Supporters receive the magazine Growing Green
International. Publishes lists of vegan-organic farms which may need
paid or voluntary help; runs courses on vegan-organics; organises
visits to vegan farms. In cooperation with the Soil Association is
producing the vegan-organic stockfree standards, which will enable
farmers to consider stockfree certification using the SA and VOT
symbol. Has a panel of experts, which can advise members on all
aspects of vegan-organic growing from window sill to large farms. VOT
is currently developing an exciting project to establish a
vegan-organic Education and Demonstration Centre. Information sheets
available to purchase. Website contains among other things, links to
many international sources of advice and information plus links to
in-depth academic studies. www.veganorganic.net


Movement for Compassionate Living, (MCL), 31 Walton Close, Ernesford
Grange, Coventry CV3 2LJ. Tel: 02476 441446 E-mail, old...@beeb.net
website www.mclveganway.org.uk MCL produces a quarterly magazine,
information and books on cultivation, cooking etc, emphasising locally
grown food and cruelty-free sustainable methods, especially the
growing and use of trees.


Vegetarian Economy and Green Agriculture (VEGA), 14 Woodland Rise,
Greenford, Midx UB6 ORD. Campaigns against cruelty to animals in the
food industry, agriculture and related areas. www.vegaresearch.org


Plants for a Future, Blagdon Cross, Ashwater, Beaworthy, Devon EX21
5DF. Researching ecologically sustainable vegan-organic horticulture;
an excellent resource and information centre. The website www.pfaf.org
contains much useful information


Land and Liberty, 35 Rayleigh Avenue, Westcliff On Sea,Essex SS0 7DS
Have publications, vegan-organic information and ideas including lots
on vegan permaculture, very useful as most 'permaculture' involves
animal exploitation. The website www.landandliberty.co.uk/ is a mine
of information.
All the above groups would appreciate a SAE with enquiries.


Books available from The Vegan Society
Abundant Living in the coming age of the tree by Kathleen Jannaway -
towards a vegan, self-sustaining tree-based culture.


Forest Gardening by Robert A de J Hart - turn your garden or allotment
into a vegan-organic, permaculture-based mini-forest.


Permaculture: A Beginner's Guide by Graham Burnett - apply the
principles of sustainability and working with nature to your land,
your community and your life.


Plants For A Future by Ken Fern - pioneering book that takes
gardening, conservation and ecology into a new dimension. Information
about growing edible and other useful plants.


The Animal Free Shopper - The Vegan Society's guide to all things
vegan includes a section on garden products.


Well Fed - Not Animal Dead by Graham Burnett - a sourcebook for vegan
cooking, gardening and living.
Other useful books
Readily available handbooks, which are not wholly vegan but provide
good vegan alternatives are: The Organic Bible by Bob Flowerdew and
The New Organic Grower by Elliot Coleman.


Weeds by John Walker is an earth-friendly guide to tackling weeds and
making good use of them. Published by Cassel ISBN 1 84403 061 X.


Growing Our Own, a booklet on sale from Movement for Compassionate
Living. Vegan-Organic Information Sheets on sale from Vegan-Organic
Trust. Publications from Plants for a Future and Land and Liberty (see
organizations and groups)
Gardening columns
The Vegan Society has its own vegan gardening column - Grow Vegan - in
its quarterly magazine; this includes garden jargon, grow vegan
puzzler with prizes and information for the vegan gardener.


Movement for Compassionate Living and Vegan-Organic Network produce
regular magazines with advice for growers.


Vegan Views magazine, subscription details from Flat A15, 20 Dean Park
Rd, Bournemouth BH1 1JB, has a regular page on vegan-organic growing
that can also be downloaded free from their website
www.veganviews.org.uk
Websites
Apart from those mentioned elsewhere, try these:


www.ecocities.net - Plenty of vegan environmental and alternative
technology information and links.


www.btinternet.com/~bury_rd/ - Vegan News on-line magazine, with
excellent regular features on gardening and related topics such as
attracting wildlife to the garden.
Seeds and supplies
The Organic Gardening Catalogue, Riverdene Business Park, Molsey Rd,
Hersham, Surrey KT12 4RG UK 01932 25366. www.organiccatalog.com Seeds
and products such as fertilisers and compost listed as organic and
animal free.


Suffolk herbs, Monks Farm, Coggeshall Rd, Kelvedon, Essex CO5 9PG
www.suffolkherbs.com


Chiltern Seeds, Bortree Stile, Ulverston, Cumbria LA12 7PB 01229
581137. Wide range of seeds including uncommon and unusual vegetable
varieties.


Tamar Organics, Unit 5A Westbridge Trading Estate, Tavistock, Devon.
PL19 8DE


West Riding Organics, 147 Brights Buildings, New Mill Road, Honley,
Huddersfield HD7 2QB are prepared to leave animal products out of
their seed compost but it may be necessary to buy in bulk. This
compost is also free from mined peat.
Other useful organisations and groups
Elm Farm Research Centre, Hamstead Marshall, Newbury, Berks RG15 0HR
Carry out research into all types of agriculture, including many
aspects of animal-free techniques such as green manures. www.efrc.com


HDRA, Ryton Organic Gardens, Coventry CV8 3LG UK www.hdra.org.uk
demonstration gardens and education centre at Ryton, which is
presently being expanded. Much of their advice is based on animal
products but this can be adapted. Members receive a quarterly
magazine.
This information has been compiled by volunteers from VOT


>What do you do with your human waste, have the water company tip it into the
>sea?
>

Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 7:04:01 AM11/13/07
to
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:27:09 GMT, Alf King <a...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:42:17 +0000, Stu <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm
>>
>>We're ALL going to die! :-((((((
>
>

>It was noticeable how quickly the farming lobby introduced the
>reference to migrating birds. Mustn't let the public get the idea that
>there might possibly be any other cause.
>
>Alf King

I suppose expecting them to be open and honest is a little too
optimistic.

The only way to ensure it dies out is to cease the breeding ground for
the virus, livestock farming.

Message has been deleted

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 8:29:26 AM11/13/07
to

Perhaps people who don't like the taste of goose?


Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 8:27:11 AM11/13/07
to

"(not quite so) Fat Sam" <saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote in
message news:PumdnQ_PS49aOKTa...@giganews.com...

true enough. I know one poor devil who had stomach trouble and was
restricted to white meat and an otherwise vegetarian diet, Most
disheartening for him
One of the best days of his life was when he recovered and was able to eat
real food again

Jim Webster


Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 9:00:03 AM11/13/07
to

The very food that caused his problems in the first place? Was he
given fluoride supplements as well!

Escargot Cult

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 9:21:54 AM11/13/07
to
In article <PumdnQ_PS49aOKTa...@giganews.com>,
saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk says...

> Jim Webster wrote:
> >
> > exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>
> Perhaps people who don't like the taste of goose?
>

Do such people exist? Weird.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Escargot Cult

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 9:21:13 AM11/13/07
to
In article <ek7jj3pd7v5p7bmo9...@4ax.com>,
anarchSP...@ntlworld.com says...

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:55:03 +0000, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Far better than diseased human waste and dead animal products like
> >chicken blood......
> >
> Tha'll ate a ton o'muck afore tha' dees.
>

Never really worked as the marketing slogan for KFC that one.

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 5:40:01 PM11/13/07
to

How do you know red meat caused his problem?
It may have inflamed it once it had started, but you cannot possibly know
for a fact that it was the cause.


(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 5:41:17 PM11/13/07
to
Escargot Cult wrote:
> In article <PumdnQ_PS49aOKTa...@giganews.com>,
> saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk says...
>> Jim Webster wrote:
>>>
>>> exactly, who'd buy turkey when you can have goose
>>
>> Perhaps people who don't like the taste of goose?
>>
>
> Do such people exist? Weird.

To be honest, I've never tasted goose.
However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that I would really like it, as I
love my roasties done in goose fat.


Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 5:56:45 PM11/13/07
to

Call it a hunch.

Gloria

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 6:00:55 PM11/13/07
to

Should be quite a few cheapies flooding the market any time soon if
you feel lucky.

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 6:07:32 PM11/13/07
to

I'd prefer to call it a prejudice if it's all the same with you.


Escargot Cult

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 7:01:29 PM11/13/07
to
In article <19CdnRH6xsK...@giganews.com>,
saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk says...

You probably would. It's marginally my favourite meat. Better even than
really really good bacon. It's pretty much the opposite of turkey in that
a little roast goose can go a long way. As opposed to roast turkey which
largely just seems to take up space on a plate that might otherwise be
filled with something edible.

It's no more difficult to cook than any other large poultry. Though you
need to roast it so that it's lifted above the fat. Partly so that it
isn't too fatty itself, but mostly because you want the fat for cooking
just about everything else in.

Christmas dinner should be goose. If you can't get goose then duck might
do at a pinch. If there's no possibility of duck then chicken is better
than nothing. On the whole I'm likely to go for just about anything else
in preference to turkey.

Meat is a fairly inefficient form of nutrition when everything is taken
into account. So I'm damned if I'm going to settle for any that doesn't
taste brilliant.

Lord Turkey Cough

unread,
Nov 13, 2007, 10:31:05 PM11/13/07
to

"Malcolm" <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cm7x76YK...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <h37hj3p69j5gc5iji...@4ax.com>, Stu
> <m...@privacy.net> writes
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stm
>>
>>We're ALL going to die! :-((((((
>
> Why, are you a turkey?

I am :O(


>
> --
> Malcolm


Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:09:39 AM11/14/07
to

"Escargot Cult" <mi...@ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.21a44b1e...@news.aqxs.net...
> In article <19CdnRH6xsK...@giganews.com>,

> Christmas dinner should be goose. If you can't get goose then duck might
> do at a pinch. If there's no possibility of duck then chicken is better
> than nothing. On the whole I'm likely to go for just about anything else
> in preference to turkey.
>

we had to switch to Turkey when my father had to go on a low fat diet, which
for him wasn't a problem as his preferred meat was beef anyway, but it did
mean that goose, which they had always eaten was probably out. So we did
have various tries with Turkey, Capon, etc for Christmas Dinner. (With our
own beef, we can get good beef at pretty well any time, so we would go for
something a bit different for Christmas) but since my parents death we are
back with goose again.
As someone mentioned, with goose you enjoy it for so much longer because of
the roast potatoes in goose fat ;-)))


Jim Webster


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 3:39:43 AM11/14/07
to
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:07:32 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

You pays your money, you takes your chances.

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 6:59:53 AM11/14/07
to

I absolutely love duck. It's one of my favourites, but I have to say that
the meat froma turkey can be right tasty too, so long as it's not bland
white breast meat. Take any of the darker cuts and the flavour becomes so
much richer. It's still not a patch on duck though.
As I'm on a healthy eating thing at the moment, and I've done so well
lately, I'm seriously considering going for a healthy option this Christmas,
and maybe having fish instead. A nice big fresh salmon.
It's by no means traditional, but it's certainly different and unusual.


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 7:07:25 AM11/14/07
to

Oxymoron alert health+meat=BADDDDDD


http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/vegetarianism/ALL/513/
The suffering of farmed poultry
Europe's Agricultural ministers agreed in June 1999 to end the rearing
of egg-laying chickens in battery cages across the EU - but not until
2012, thereby guaranteeing another decade of unremitting misery for
the battery hen.

The regulation will state that by 31 December 2012 farmers must have
phased out the use of battery cages in favour of "free-range" farming,
the housing of hens in large, barn-like aviaries, or the use of
so-called "enriched cages". The latter will have to give at least 750
sq cm of space per chicken - twice the size of current cages, but
still less than the size of two sheets of A4 paper. In addition, it
will be compulsory to provide a nesting area with litter, a scratching
pad to sharpen claws and a perch.

Welfare optimists are predicting that the high cost of providing
"enhanced" and bigger cages means that they are unlikely to be as
popular with the poultry trade as so called free-range or barn
aviaries. In fact the trade itself is convinced that the current cage
types will eventually be reprieved and demonstrates its confidence by
continuing to feature the contraptions in trade fairs.

Egg producing machines
It is estimated that approximately 66 per cent of the total UK
egg-laying population of 30 million are currently kept in battery
cages. The average yield per hen during 2003 was a staggering 290 eggs
(Defra, Agriculture in the UK 2003).


At the hatchery stage all male chicks are killed (usually by gassing)
because they can neither produce eggs nor put on enough weight quickly
enough to be fattened for meat. Their female counterparts begin their
year-long ordeal in cages at around 18 weeks.

Read Suffer the little chickens

Inside the battery houses
Battery cages are stacked in tiers in huge windowless sheds that
accommodate a laying flock of thousands of hens. More than 70% of
birds are kept in flocks of more 20,000. Sheds with in excess of
50,000 hens are fairly common.

A typical cage houses four or five birds and has wire mesh on the
sides and top. The minimum space allowance, as set down in a European
Directive, is the equivalent of less than three-quarters of the
surface area of a standard sheet of A4 paper.

The battery system was designed to allow faeces to drop through the
bottom of the cage, separating the hens from possible sources of
diseases - especially those caused by internal parasites. But the cage
system itself creates severe disease problems and suffering. The
duties of the stockperson amount to little more than the upkeep of
automated equipment and removal of dead birds from their cages. While
no official statistics exist, the government have estimated that over
2 million battery hens die in their cages every year.

Feed and water supplies are automated. Egg-laying apart, eating and
drinking are the only activities available to the birds.

Frustration of natural behaviour
Under natural conditions, hens instinctively display complex
behavioural patterns involving perching, foraging, nesting and
dust-bathing. Close confinement in cages denies the opportunity to
perform any of these activities. Deprivation causes chronic suffering
and social conflict amongst cage mates, including bullying,
feather-pecking and, in extreme cases, cannibalism.

The trauma of laying
Egg laying is a natural physiological function for hens, although not
on anything approaching the scale of the modern commercial bird. And
with no space or cover, the mere act of laying in a battery house
becomes an ordeal in itself. Battery hens are also denied the
opportunity to perform normal pre-laying activity such as nest
building. The stress and frustration which can follow may result in
stereotypical (meaningless and repetitive) behaviour.


De-beaking
The egg industry attempts to discourage such aggression by amputating
the upper part of the beak in a routine mutilation known as
"de-beaking" or "beak-trimming". Up to half of the upper and sometimes
also the lower part of the beak is cut away using a red-hot blade.
This causes chronic pain and hampers, yet further, any attempt at
natural behaviour.

No official figures exist for the levels of de-beaking, although.
leading welfare body, the Farm Animal Welfare Network, has estimated
that roughly 15-20% of battery hens are de-beaked, with this figure is
rising due to increasing levels of mortality from cannibalism.

Foot deformities, bone weakness and fractures
Physical consequences of confinement include foot deformities - caused
mainly by the absence of suitable perches - and severe bone weakness -
prompted by restrictions on movement and, thus, normal development.

As a consequence, battery hens are prone to multiple fractures during
capture and transportation to the killing plant. In a study performed
by the Institute of Food Research at Langford near Bristol,
researchers found that 29% of battery hens had broken bones by the
time they reached the slaughterhouse. By the end of the slaughtering
process 98% had broken bones.

Bone weakness is exacerbated by calcium deficiencies caused by heavy
egg-laying programmes. Bone fractures are increased by the emphasis on
speed rather than care amongst the catching gangs who clear end-of-lay
birds from their cages for the journey to the slaughterhouse.

Cancer and genetic selection
The genetic selection of birds on the basis of high egg yields is also
responsible for an increased susceptibility to cancers.


Broiler chickens
More than 800 million chickens were slaughtered in the UK during 2003
to provide poultry meat. In 1985 the total was "just" 447 million
birds. This reflects a consumer trend away from red meat to what is
erroneously perceived to be a healthier alternative. (See Look after
your health for problems of salmonella, campylobacter etc.)

The broiler house
Chicks are artificially hatched and then housed in huge, windowless
sheds for the duration of their six-week growing period. On average, a
modern "broiler" house holds around 45,000 birds, usually kept on a
litter bed of wood shavings or chopped straw. But many units have
populations exceeding 100,000.

As birds grow, space for each individual decreases. By the end of the
growing cycle each bird has only 0.5 square ft of floor and must push
his/her way through a solid mass of other chickens to reach food and
water points. Many die in the attempt. The government has estimated
that about 6% (or more than 42 million birds annually) die before the
end of each growing cycle.

Millions of monster babies
The life span of an unconfined chicken can be up to 10 years, yet
table fowls or broilers are usually slaughtered at six weeks of age,
before they reach sexual maturity. They reach adult size so quickly
because of a combination of the following: ruthless genetic selection,
the use of a high protein diet and the routine inclusion of antibiotic
growth promoters in feed. The latter are being phased out because of
human health concerns, under orders from Brussels. But the trade is
turning to other chemicals to produce the same unnatural effect.

Crippled during infancy
The combination of accelerated growth rates and unhealthy living
conditions account for the huge number of birds who die prematurely.
Broiler chickens are vulnerable to fatty livers and kidneys, heart
attacks, septicaemia, and deformities caused by arthritis together
with the stress of carrying so much weight on young bones.


Many broiler chickens also die from ascites: their growth rate is so
rapid that their heart, lungs and circulatory system struggle to
maintain sufficient oxygen levels. This results in breathlessness and
distended abdomens caused by a build up of yellow or blood-stained
fluid.

Visible indicators of suffering
Broiler houses are not cleaned during the growing cycle, which results
in the accumulation of faeces in the litter. This can often lead to
blistering, ulcerated feet and hock burns. The latter are caused by
exposure of the skin to high levels of ammonia. It is not uncommon to
find visible hock burns on chicken carcases sold in supermarkets.

Broiler breeders
Breeding birds are the poultry selected to produce progeny who are
then fattened for the table. Unlike their offspring, these breeders
are not required to grow quickly: on the contrary, the emphasis is on
reducing their growth. To achieve this, they are fed a restricted
diet. A survey indicates that broiler breeders are permitted to eat
only a quarter of the amount they would consume if food were freely
available. (C. J. Savory, K.Maros and S.M. Rutter, Animal Welfare,
2:131-132, 1993). The conclusion is that birds are "chronically
hungry, frustrated and stressed".

Turkeys
Turkeys aren't just for Christmas anymore - more than 20 million are
killed and eaten throughout the year in the UK.

Intensive production
The majority of turkey production is intensive, with up to 25,000
birds kept in large windowless buildings similar to broiler chicken
houses.


Consequences of intensification
Many of the same welfare problems associated with broiler chicken
production are found in the turkey industry. Turkeys have been
genetically selected for high meat yields and to fatten in as short a
time as possible. They have a natural life span of approximately 10
years, yet they are slaughtered at between 12 - 26 weeks.

In this short period they may grow to nearly twice the size of their
predecessors of only 25 years ago. As a consequence, their legs become
unable to support the huge weight of their breast muscle or to sustain
normal posture and limb movement.

Early mortality - 2.7 million annually
Unhealthy and overcrowded conditions mean that disease amongst
commercial turkeys is widespread, resulting in approximately 2.7
million turkeys (or 7% of the total) dying in their sheds every year.
Foot and leg deformities, heat stress and starvation caused by the
inability of immature birds to find the feed and water troughs are
commonplace. Ulcerated feet and hock burns are common - caused by
continual contact with litter contaminated by urine and faeces.

Artificial insemination now the norm
The accelerated growth of modern turkeys mean that the males (stags)
are now too broad-breasted and heavy (weighing as much as 60lbs) to
reproduce naturally. Instead, artificial insemination (AI) is applied,
whereby the birds are masturbated by hand and their semen inserted
into the females via tubes and catheters. Government literature gives
detailed instructions on the correct way to masturbate, or "milk"
males.

Aggression and de-beaking
90% of turkeys are kept in near-darkness to discourage the aggression
which becomes a problem when so many birds are crammed into a confined
space. Debeaking of the sort used on battery hens is also commonly
carried out in the first week of the birds' short lives. Research
suggests that turkeys suffer chronic pain for 2-6 weeks after
de-beaking.


Loading and transportation of poultry
Battery hens, broiler chickens and turkeys endure the same fate at the
end of their productive lives. All are subjected to the ordeal of
catching, transportation and slaughter. Only the further processing is
different: broilers become oven-ready birds for the table, whilst
end-of-lay battery hens are made into lower grade poultry products
such as pies, soups, chicken stock and baby foods.

The birds are typically grabbed by the feet and thrust into crates, or
"modules", before being loaded onto lorries. Many suffer additional
injuries at this time and hundreds of chickens can die from a
panic-induced crush each time the catching gang enters the shed.

Others die during the journey to the killing plants, often from heart
attacks. Injuries and wounds account for the other fatalities. The
most common injury is dislocation of the femur (the bone between the
hip and the knee). This is almost certainly the result of rough
handling by catching teams.

Slaughter
Poultry slaughter methods are highly mechanised and designed to
maximise speed rather than to minimise suffering. Chickens are removed
from their crates/modules and suspended upside down by their legs on
metal shackles. The most common method is for a conveyer to take the
birds' heads through an electrically charged water bath, with the
current designed to stun and leave them insensible to pain when their
throats are cut.

They are killed by severing the main blood vessels in the neck. This
is usually done with an automatic knife, with a slaughterman employed
as a back-up to slit the throat manually of any birds missed by the
machine. Once dead, the birds are immersed in a scalding tank to
loosen the feathers before plucking.


Killed whilst fully conscious
There is considerable evidence that the slaughter process is
inefficient. Inadequate stunning results in some birds going to the
knife and even to the scalding tank alive and possibly fully
conscious. Turkey slaughter has been extensively investigated by
researchers at the Agricultural and Food Research Council (AFRC),
Institute of Food Research, Langford, Bristol. Twenty six per cent of
turkeys included in their survey received painful pre-stun shocks
(i.e. accidental electric shocks) when birds' wings touched the
electrically charged waterbath before their heads did, or when the
ramp leading to the bath became electrically live. Worst of all,
studies indicated that nationally, every year, around 35,000 turkeys
may be entering the scalding tank alive and perhaps conscious.

Deliberate cruelty
Evidence produced in court hearings indicate that deliberate cruelty
is sometimes inflicted upon poultry in British slaughterhouses. For
example, a 1993 industrial tribunal heard the case of a former
employee at a poultry processing plant in Winchester in which
'bagpiping' was described. Slaughterhouse staff squeezed live birds in
a game that involved squirting faeces over other employees.

Elsewhere, poultry catchers have told how some of their colleagues
kicked, punched, tied up and force-fed chickens and turkeys to relieve
the boredom and frustration of their work. (Here's the Catch, Animal
Aid 1994.)

'Free range' birds
The term "free range" suggests a handful of chickens or turkeys
scratching around a yard. But modern free range units usually contain
several thousand selectively-bred birds crammed together in each shed.
Pop holes allow the inhabitants to exit and re-enter when the weather
is suitable. But because of the special stresses associated with a
system that pretends to be what it isn't (the constantly shifting
struggle amongst the birds for territory; their movement from heated
interior to the bug-laden outside world and back again), the
genetically enfeebled birds typically suffer high early mortality
rates.

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 7:09:32 AM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:59:53 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

Even M&S ducks are foul.

Marks & Spencer duck farm shame


Stop Press:

January 2006: In 2004, Viva! and its supporters persuaded Marks &
Spencer to drop factory-farmed whole duck, after countrywide protests
outside its stores and a blitz of media attention. This followed
Viva!’s undercover investigation, which found atrocious conditions at
their suppliers (detailed below). M&S assured us that they intended to
roll out this decision to all of their duck meat products, and had a
commitment to "promoting free-range poultry". However, a recent
undercover investigation has revealed that not only has the chain
cynically gone back on its word but it is still taking ducks from the
same supplier we exposed two years ago, Manor Farm Ducklings. This new
footage shows the usual litany of misery: thousands of ducks crammed
into a shed, filthy and dejected; soaking litter; ducks blinded from
lack of water with which to preen; and ducks with open, bleeding
sores.

Last week, Viva!’s Justin Kerswell was interviewed on Sky News, where
he openly criticised M&S and called on consumers to take the lead, and
to boycott duck meat entirely.

M&S’s response has been to drop MFD Foods as a supplier, whilst they
undertake an investigation. We’ve heard it all before. Please contact
M&S to express your disgust that they have gone back on their word,
and to tell them that they should drop factory farmed duck once and
for all.

Click here to contact M&S – it only takes a second with our Virtual
postcard!

Back in 2004, in another shocking Viva! undercover investigation, the
reality of life for Britain’s millions of factory farmed ducks was
once again exposed to public view. Covert filming at sites belonging
to some of Britain’s biggest producers of duck meat revealed the
reality behind the fluffy Easter duckling image. Featured in a major
article in the Daily Mail, Viva!’s investigation exposed Marks &
Spencer as a customer of one of these companies and April 3rd 2004 saw
Viva! supporters protesting outside nearly 200 M&S stores to expose
the truth to their customers. Find out more about the protests by
clicking here.

Modern farming techniques have turned the fluffy Easter duckling image
into a sick joke. 19 million ducks were slaughtered in the UK in 2005
(in the mid 1970’s the UK duck population was barely a million). We
know what these birds lives are really like because we have
investigated several duck units. Twice we visited Manor Farm
Ducklings, who then supplied Marks & Spencer. On our first visit, we
saw thousands of fluffy, yellow ducklings in stinking, windowless
sheds. Some could barely walk and dragged themselves across on their
wings. Others had fallen on their backs and were unable to right
themselves and this is how they would die - a horrible, stressful
death. Many had already lost the battle to live and their little
corpses were scattered amongst the straw. One duckling had fallen
behind machinery and was hopelessly trapped - calling desperately for
a mother who would never come.


Of course, none of these ducklings ever see their mothers. In the wild
it’s a different story and mother birds are fiercely protective of
their young – teaching them how to swim, preen their feathers, select
food and keep warm. But the ducklings we filmed are unable to learn
anything that is natural - there’s no sun, no wind, no rain to run off
their backs and near-constant artificial light.

Birds that have evolved to eat, swim, dive, clean and play in water
never even see it, except in their drinkers. One reason why it is so
severely restricted is because ducks naturally like to splash water
over their bodies. In factory farms, it causes choking ammonia to be
released from the faeces-covered floor.

Yet it is vital to ducks’ health to immerse themselves in water but
many cannot even dip their heads in it. The outcome is entirely
predictable – dirty, bedraggled feathers that can make it difficult to
keep warm, eye problems and even blindness.

On our second visit to Manor Farm six weeks later, the ducklings were
already at slaughter weight - white feathered, beautiful but utterly
dejected birds. The sight of thousands of them waddling around the
shed in excreta, with no way of escape and nothing to do, was awful.
Again, we found more corpses, including, some that appeared to have
been there for a very long time, and more injured and dejected birds,
some in obvious pain and emotional distress.

On another Manor Farm site, we found water even more pitifully
restricted. Nipple drinkers, which were designed for chickens, meant
that these poor birds had to battle for every drop of water – an
incredible way to treat aquatic birds. No wonder corpses were piled
high amongst the straw and slurry.

All Marks & Spencer duck meat comes from intensive units and must
throw into doubt their claim to operate ‘strict selection criteria’.
Their righteous statement: “Our customers have the right to expect
that any animals involved in the production of Marks & Spencer food
items are treated with respect” also rings more than a little hollow.

Sadly, they are not the only culprits as other supermarkets also sell
intensively-reared duck meat. What glares out at you in the case of
M&S is the gulf between the reality and their marketing hype.

The conditions we have uncovered show the reality of farming today:
farmers know it, suppliers know it and Marks & Spencer know it. They
just don’t want their customers to know it.

Click above to watch Jake's story


> Find out what you can do to help stop the suffering> Order a Duck Action Pack showing what you can do to help> Sign the Petition



> Order materials> Read our report "Duck out of Water" (now updated for 2006)


> Introduction> Ducks Out of Water Campaign history> Marks & Spencer> Co-op> Chinese restaurants: The Unhappy Duck


> Watch Ducks out of Water (6m)> Watch our undercover video of duck farms. (3MB / 3m 22s)> Watch our footage of the Manor Farm investigation..
(9.9MB / 3m 2s)


Please contact Marks & Spencer to register your protest at their
involvement in animal suffering, and ask them to stop selling duck
meat. Click here to read Viva!’s response to M&S’ standard replies

Downloads
Ducks Out of Water leaflets (A5)
Colour Duck Mask (A4)


Viva! Vegetarians International Voice for Animals
8 York Court, Wilder Street, Bristol BS2 8QH, UK
T: 0117 944 1000 F: 0117 924 4646 E: in...@viva.org.uk

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 7:10:14 AM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:59:53 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

Turkeys - Viva! Fact Sheet



Turkeys in their natural state
Turkeys have a zest for living and, treated with respect, they become
very friendly. Turkeys have large, dark, almond-shaped eyes and
sensitive fine-boned faces. Wild turkeys live in North and Central
America. They are striking and handsome, graceful and intelligent.
They roost in trees and roam in woodlands, eating vegetation and
insects. They live in harems - the mothers being very protective of
their young. An adult bird can fly up to 50mph.

Conditions in turkey farms
There are two main systems of turkey rearing:
a. Windowless units. The most common system where as many as 25,000
turkeys are kept in one shed. The birds are crowded together like
broiler chickens, on a litter floor. Many develop ulcerated feet and
painful burns on their legs and breasts as they spend their short
lives standing on litter which often becomes wet, dirty and produces
ammonia. Lighting is dim to discourage aggression.
b. Pole barns. These allow daylight and ventilation but conditions are
still grossly overcrowded. Stress causes fighting and birds attack
each others eyes and toes.

Slaughter age
Turkeys would live up to 10 years in the wild. Farmed turkeys are
usually slaughtered between the ages of 12 and 26 weeks, although
according to DEFRA some are as young as eight weeks.

Mortality rate
6%- 15% of turkeys die in sheds each year. Many die because they never
learn to reach the food and water points (‘starve-outs’). Others die
from disease or as a result of growing too quickly.

Aggression
Turkeys peck at each others feathers, toes and eyes when overcrowded.
Sometimes their eyeballs are destroyed by the pecking. Cannibalism can
be common in intensive farms. Turkeys are often kept in near darkness
to discourage cannibalism. In the wild, turkeys would not be
aggressive but on factory farms birds are driven to aggression by the
conditions in which they are kept.

Mutilation
Debeaking is considered essential to many turkey rearers. 10% of all
turkeys are debeaked (DEFRA, Oct 2001) When turkeys are only a few
days old, their beaks are partially amputated, a section of the upper
beak being cut off with a red-hot blade or with clippers. Potential
breeding stock are debeaked again at around 16 weeks, and sometimes at
a later stage too. Beak trimming is painful and can result in
permanent pain. Research at the AFRC Institute of Animal Physiology
and Genetics Research, Edinburgh, indicates that debeaking results in
chronic pain similar to ‘phantom limb pain’ in human amputees. Birds
have been observed, over a 56 week period, to show signs of behaviour
associated with long-term chronic pain and depression, following
partial beak amputation.
(“Behavioral Evidence for Persistent Pain Following Partial Beak
Amputation in Chickens” - Michael Gentle et al, Applied Animal
Behaviour Science, 27 (1990) 149-157).

Toe removal is also performed on male breeding birds which can result
in open wounds, blood loss and pain.

Desnooding is practiced to minimalise cannibalism. This is where the
long fleshy appendage extending from the front of a turkey’s head over
its upper back is removed with an instrument or pulled off.

When farmers want to prevent turkeys from flying, dewinging is carried
out where the flight feathers of one wing may be clipped.

Slaughter
22 million turkeys are killed each year in licensed plants with an
estimated 10 million being killed at Christmas (based on consumption
figures, DEFRA, 23/10/2001).
Including small-scale enterprises which slaughter on premises, 35
million turkeys are killed in the UK every year. (Meat Hygiene
Service, 1998)

According to the Meat Hygiene Service (MHS), there are 50
slaughterhouses licensed to kill turkeys. 34 out of 50 plants stunning
turkeys use the electric waterbath. Others use gas stunning and very
low throughput premises tend to use an electric hand-held stunner.

UK slaughter legislation states that birds may be killed by
decapitation or dislocation of the neck. These procedures do not
require a license provided that they are carried out on premises
forming part of an agricultural holding on which the bird was reared.

Decapitation is not widely practiced but neck dislocation is the most
widely used method of slaughter on small-scale enterprises. Scientists
Gregory and Wotton expressed concern about the effectiveness of neck
dislocation in poultry. They tried crushing and stretching the necks
of poultry (method 2 works in a similar manner to manual neck
dislocation) and concluded that, “neither method consistently produced
concussion and it is uncertain whether they cause instantaneous
unconsciousness.”
(N. G. Gregory, S. B. Wotton, 1990. Comparison of neck dislocation and
percussion of the head on visual evoked responses in the chicken’s
brain. The Veterinary Record 126, 570-572).

Researcher Roger McCamley says that, “There is certainly a potential
for welfare problems to arise when small scale seasonal producers kill
large birds by neck dislocation. Usually, no training will have been
sought or received and because of the small number and infrequency of
slaughtering, little expertise in slaughter will be obtained.”
R. McCamley, 1992. The welfare aspects of poultry slaughter on farms.
The Meat Hygienist, December edition, 5-11.

If turkeys are not killed on the farm at which they are reared, they
are transported live to a processing plant. Turkeys are caught from
the rearing sheds and stuffed into crates for transportation to the
slaughterhouse. Rough handling often causes severe bruising and
injury. At the slaughterhouse the birds are hung upside down with
their feet in shackles for up to six minutes before they are stunned
(DEFRA, 2001). Birds are in great distress at this time, especially
those with diseased hip joints or legs.

The shackled turkeys move to an electrically-charged water bath
through which their heads and necks pass. The electric shock is meant
to stun the birds. Turkeys tend to arch their necks at slaughter and
may not be stunned before they reach the neck cutter. Each year,
conservative estimates suggest that around 30-40,000 will enter the
scalding tank alive. Around 43% of birds will receive painful electric
shocks before being stunned because their wings touch the
electrically-charged waterbath.

Breeding
Only a few breeding companies now supply most turkeys reared worldwide
- British United Turkeys, Nicholas and Hybrid Turkeys. Reproduction in
today’s turkey industry is by artificial insemination (AI). The modern
turkey, like the broiler chicken, has been genetically selected to put
on weight twice as fast as its counterpart in the wild. Now, male
turkeys are too broad-breasted to mate naturally. In the wild, the
turkey can fly up to speeds of 50mph, yet the modern male farmed
variety cannot fly. Breeding turkeys can weigh as much as an 8-9 year
old child (60lbs).

Collecting the semen
2 or 3 times a week the males are ‘milked’ of their semen by teams of
operators whose jobs are to manipulate the males’ anal area until the
phallus is erect (a form of human-to-bird masturbation) and semen is
ejected, helped along by the pressure on the lower abdomen.

Insemination of the females
Female turkeys are caught and held upside down, while semen is
introduced into the vagina by hypodermic syringe or the operator’s
breath pressure, through a length of tubing. The repeated stress
imposed by AI is extreme and unacceptable in welfare terms.

Eggs and chicks
All factory farmed turkeys never meet their mothers. Fertile eggs are
transferred to the hatchery. After 28 days in an incubating cabinet
the poults are hatched. At a day old the turkey chicks are transported
to growing sheds with up to 25,000 chicks the same age. The lighting
is dim and the heat is kept permanently high. Many chicks die from
heat, stress, heart attack or bullying.

Disease
Most turkeys suffer from degeneration of the hip joints. In the ball
and socket mechanism of this joint, much of the weight is distributed
through a pad of cartilage. Under the stress of carrying an
unnaturally heavy body, the structure breaks down, leading to
degeneration of the joint. This leads to severe lesions and pain. Dr
Colin Whitehead of the Agricultural and Food Research Council states
that 70 per cent of the heavier birds are ‘suffering pain rather than
just discomfort’.

The last decade has thrown up numerous examples of new diseases in
turkeys. These include Rhinotracheitis, Paramyxovirus 2, and
Salmonella enteritidis - a major new bacterial source of human food
poisoning that can cause arthritis, blood disease, impaired immunity
and death. Other diseases include Blackhead disease, Ornithobacterium
rhinotracheale and Avian Influenza.

Turkeys are reared to be pathalogically obese. They have clogged
coronary vessels, distended fluid-filled pericardial sac, abdominal
fluid and a gelatin-covered enlarged congested liver. Their hearts can
actually explode.

Artificial insemination spreads fowl cholera, a major bacterial
disease of intensively reared turkeys.

Drugs
Throughout their lives, turkeys may be given antibiotics and other
drugs to prevent or treat infections caused by worms, fungi, bacteria
and other microbes. More than a dozen antibiotics are approved for use
in chickens and turkeys, including erythromycin, penicillin,
tetracycline and virginiamycin.

Help stop the suffering - Action:

The most effective step that you can take is to stop eating turkey and
to ask your family to have a meat free Christmas. Contact Viva! for
free veggie Christmas recipe leaflets - view them online here.

Viva! has organised a nationwide door drop asking people to have a
turkey free Christmas and offering free Christmas packs. Please help
Viva! get the ‘cruelty free Christmas’ message out by distributing
Viva! turkey leaflets through doors in your neighbourhood. Contact
Viva! for free leaflets.

Give out ‘Turkey free Christmas’ leaflets outside your local
supermarkets and butchers shops. Contact Viva! for posters to make
placards and to put in your window at home.

For more info on turkeys and for information on how to go veggie and
other campaigns, look on our website or phone or write to Viva! for a
free veggie info pack.



Action:
Find out what you can do to help stop the suffering.

See also:
Viva!'s investigation into Bernard Matthews and Kerry Foods

Watch Viva!'s undercover video of factory farmed turkeys - "Stuffed!"

Click here for information on having a veggie christmas

Read the Daily Mail's exposé of turkey farms


A typical unit at Bernard Matthews turkey farm

Ill bird at Bernard matthews turkey farm

Kerry Foods


Ill bird at Kerry Foods

Ill bird at Bernard Matthews turkey farm

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 7:10:55 AM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:59:53 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

Fishing


Some people who give up eating meat and poultry continue to eat fish
in the belief that it is a healthy food and that fishing is less cruel
and environmentally destructive than farming. Nothing could be further
from the truth.

Fish cruelty

There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion that
they do. In July 2004 the European Food Safety Authority issued a
report on slaughter in which they examined the killing of farmed fish.
They concluded that “many existing commercial killing methods expose
fish to substantial suffering over a long period of time.” They also
noted that “asphyxia/asphyxia in ice . . . and bleeding
out/exsanguination are not humane methods for killing fish.” Asphyxia
– being starved of oxygen - is the method by which wild, trawled fish
are killed. It is a horrible death – far worse, indeed, than that
faced by most land animals.

Environmental Destruction

Commercial fishing of the oceans has decimated both fish stocks and
the aquatic environment. Herring, cod, hake, redfish and mackerel are
the fish species that are most commonly exploited commercially across
the world - some of which are close to becoming extinct as a result of
overfishing. There are several methods used for commercial fishing:

Trawling
Trawlers, some the size of football fields, work non-stop across the
oceans' fishing grounds, backwards and forwards in a never-ending
process which scoops up huge quantities of fish and destroys the sea
bed and the creatures that live there. Nets like huge tapering bags
are used, and the mouth of the bag can be 224 ft. wide! It is kept
open by huge, metal-bound trawl (otter) boards that can weigh tons.
They are dragged across the ocean floor and crush and grind to
destruction anything in their path.

A variant is the beam trawl, where a long metal beam is fixed to the
underside of the net's opening. Floatation devices keep the mouth of
the net open and dangling from the beam are 'tickler' chains, which
drag along the bottom forcing almost every creature from its hiding
place into the mouth of the net.

Between 60 and 80 million tons of fish are caught from the seas of the
world each year by trawling. The total for all methods is about 100
million tons. Fish that are too small, non-target species or species
with no commercial value are discarded. This can include almost every
creature from the sea or sea bed - sea urchins, brittle stars, crabs,
dolphins, seals and sea-birds.

As shrimp nets are dragged through the water, they catch every living
creature in their path - trapping both shrimp and unwanted fish and
sea turtles. Sea turtles caught in shrimp nets are held under water
until they drown. Thousands of endangered sea turtles are killed in
this way every year.

The ecological balance of the oceans is disturbed when the catch rate
exceeds the natural reproduction rate. This is overfishing. All 17 of
the world's major fisheries have either reached or exceeded their
limits. The North Sea is cleared of a quarter of its fish every year.

Drift Netting
Drift nets hang like curtains from the surface of the sea. Constructed
from thin but strong monofilament nylon, they are virtually invisible
to all sea life. They can be up to an incredible 30 miles long. The
target fish are often tuna, but as dolphins tend to congregate where
tuna swim, they too die in large numbers. Rays, sharks, sea birds and
small whales all become entangled in these ghostly nets.

It is not uncommon for nets to become detached in rough weather and
float away to kill large numbers of animals and birds. When weighed
down with dead bodies they sink to the bottom but once the carcasses
have rotted, they float back to the surface and continue their
destruction. Thousands of dolphins, porpoises, small whales, sea lions
and walruses are killed by drift nets each year.

After years of campaigning, drift nets were banned by the EU from 1
January 2002 in the Atlantic and Mediterranean. Sadly, the Baltic Sea
was exempted after lobbying by Demmark, Sweden and Finland who
continue to use this destructive fishing technique with their 350
vessels.

Purse Seine Netting
A purse seine net is suspended from the surface, the bottom of it many
fathoms below the surface. The boat pays out the net in a complete
circle so the effect is like that of a tube of netting hanging down,
surrounding the target shoal of fish. A kind of drawstring at the
bottom of the net is pulled tight so the net represents a purse with
an open top but a closed bottom. The top is then also closed and the
net hauled inboard. Again, tuna are the main target, but again,
dolphins also get trapped and drown.

Wildlife
Many birds, including razor-bills, cormorants, and puffins, feed
mainly on sand eels, sprats and small herrings, all of which are
heavily exploited by fishermen. In 1994, overfishing in the North Sea
was believed to have caused about 100,000 birds to starve and the
problem seems to be worsening.

Commercial fishermen often blame the low numbers of fish on local
wildlife and demand ‘culling’ to solve the problem. As a result, seals
have been killed in their thousands - 51,000 in Russia and 250,000 in
Canada in 1996 and there are similar demands being made in Britain. In
February 1999, a proposal was presented to the US Congress by the
National Marine Fisheries Service to allow fishermen and ‘resource’
managers to shoot Pacific harbour seals and Californian sea lions
along the coasts of California, Oregon and Washington to protect the
dwindling stocks of salmon and steelhead and to reduce competition for
fish between these pinnipeds and humans.

Fish - a healthy option?
Fish is often claimed to be a healthy food but the flesh of fish often
stores dangerous contaminants, such as PCBs, dioxins, heavy metals and
even radioactive materials. PCBs and dioxins are suspected of causing
cancer, nervous system disorders and foetal damage. Toxic metals in
fish like cadmium, mercury, lead and arsenic can cause health problems
ranging from kidney damage and mental retardation to cancer. They can
be especially dangerous to unborn children. Fortunately, the healthful
substances found in fish can be obtained from plant sources which
contain no risk of contamination. For more information see
http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/campaigns/fish/index.htm


Fish Farming
Overfishing and the subsequent collapse of many commercial fisheries
has led to an increase in fish farming. The increase in the number of
fish farms has adversely affected wild fish populations. Many fish
farms are found in coastal regions of the world. In the Scottish
lochs, where many of the UK’s fish farms are found, there is a slow
exchange rate of water, lochs containing fish farms tend to have
unnaturally higher nutrient levels and eutrophic conditions which
inevitably lead to more frequent algal blooms.

There has been a dramatic rise in the amount of factory farmed salmon
produced in Scotland. There are 340 salmon farms in Scotland, in 1980
the amount of salmon produced was 800 tonnes, in 2000 it was 127,000
tonnes. Salmon are carnivorous, a large proportion of the oceanic
catch is caught to feed them - it takes 5 tons of fish caught from the
sea to produce one ton of factory farmed salmon. Inland factory-farmed
fish are kept in shallow concrete troughs. The intensive crowding – as
many as five fish per square foot – spreads infection and parasites,
so factory fish farmers use antibiotics to get more fish fatter
faster.

Parasites commonly found on factory farmed fish are also infecting
wild populations - wild fish would never come into contact with more
than a few lice during their lifetime. Increasing numbers of fish
farms has led to increasing numbers of lice in waters which
effectively eat fish alive.

Besides antibiotics, growth promoting drugs and disinfectants, other
chemicals used in fish farming include the pigment Canthaxanthin, used
to turn the fish's flesh from its natural grey to pink. Canthaxanthin
is banned as an additive in food but fed to fish which are bred to be
eaten. It is banned in the USA because it is believed to be
carcinogenic. According to the executive director of the Marine
Aquatic Association, farmed salmon are pale because they are denied
their natural carotenoid-rich diet.

Wildlife
As well as altering the natural balance of coastal waters, fish farms
attract fish-eating wildlife. So the fish farmers often try to protect
their stocks by killing the wildlife, including seals, otters,
guillemots, herons, dolphins, porpoises and basking sharks.

On March 4, 1998, a federal law in the US took effect that allows fish
farmers in 13 states to kill unlimited numbers of cormorants to
protect their profits. The US Fish & Wildlife Service estimates that
92,000 of these birds will be killed by fish farmers each year—about 5
to 10 per cent of the North American population.

Seabird numbers plummet as a result of overfishing, while the catch is
fed to carnivorous fish and herbivorous livestock as high protein
food.

Pollution
Northern Hemisphere fish farms are commonly found in the same coastal
areas as those polluted by industry, human sewage and agriculture. It
is inevitable that fish will take in some of the toxins and
concentrate them.

Fish farms also cause their own pollution. One ton of farmed trout
produces pollution equal to the untreated sewage of 200-300 people. It
has been estimated that the amount of pollution in Scotland due to
ammonia output from fish farming is comparable to sewage produced by
9.4 million people. Faeces and food pellets are concentrated around
the netted underwater cage, but the bulk accumulates beneath the
cages. This toxic build-up causes de-oxygenation and can adversely
affect local wildlife communities. Eutrophication can occur as the
water is enriched with nitrates, phosphates and nitrogenous waste
products.

Unfortunately, fish farming is now a global phenomenon for expensive
creatures such as prawns and yellow tails. The coastal areas chosen
for the farms are usually mangrove swamps, seen as useless areas ripe
for exploitation. In fact they provide the most productive and
important habitat in the oceans. Ninety per cent of marine fish rely
upon the amazing diversity provided by the mangroves, particularly for
spawning. Over 2,000 species of fish, crustaceans and plants thrive
there.

Mangroves act as buffers, they prevent flooding, stop erosion and are
the nursery of ocean life - and they are being ripped up faster than
anyone can count. Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand,
Ecuador, Panama - clearance is rampant everywhere. The subtropical
regions of the world have lost 70 per cent of all mangrove swamps
since 1960, largely to fish farming. The construction of fish farms
has led to the decline in wild populations of fish and shell fish in
particular. Mangroves are destroyed as more farms are built, however
farms rely upon wild larvae to stock them, but numbers are dwindling
because they are destroying the very habitat from which they
originate. After a few years the farms have to be moved, cutting down
yet more mangroves. Desolation is left behind.
Related Pages:
Order an ‘end of the line’ door-dropper pack


End of the Line guide

Order a free go veggie pack

From the Vegetarian & Vegan Foundation:
Fishing for facts - The Good, the Bad and the Oily

Read the VVF’s report on fish

Read the VVF Factsheet

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 7:11:52 AM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:59:53 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

SALMON


There has been a dramatic rise in the amount of factory farmed salmon
produced in Scotland. There are 340 salmon farms in Scotland, in 1980
the amount of salmon produced was 800 tonnes, in 2000 it was 127,000
tonnes. Salmon are carnivorous, a large proportion of the oceanic
catch is caught to feed them - it takes 5 tons of fish caught from the
sea to produce one ton of factory farmed salmon. Inland factory-farmed
fish are kept in shallow concrete troughs. The intensive crowding – as
many as five fish per square foot – spreads infection and parasites,
so factory fish farmers use antibiotics to get more fish fatter
faster.

Parasites commonly found on factory farmed fish are also infecting
wild populations - wild fish would never come into contact with more
than a few lice during their lifetime. Increasing numbers of fish
farms has led to increasing numbers of lice in waters which
effectively eat fish alive.

Besides antibiotics, growth promoting drugs and disinfectants, other
chemicals used in fish farming include the pigment Canthaxanthin, used
to turn the fish's flesh from its natural grey to pink. Canthaxanthin
is banned as an additive in food but fed to fish which are bred to be
eaten. It is banned in the USA because it is believed to be
carcinogenic. According to the executive director of the Marine
Aquatic Association, farmed salmon are pale because they are denied
their natural carotenoid-rich diet.

pam the SPAMMERS send an email to enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:33:38 PM11/14/07
to

<snip veggie diatribe>

So you think everyone should become a vegetarian?
You think that would make us all healthier?
I'd prefer not to get my vitamins and nutrients from the chemically composed
vitamin suplements that I'd have to take in order to maintain a balanced
diet.


(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:39:40 PM11/14/07
to

My god, you're a dull person. It must be due to the lack of meat based
nutrition.
Go and spout your loony leftie veggie bean eating propoganda to someone who
gives a toss.
I like meat, and nothing you say will ever change that.


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:45:20 PM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:33:38 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

>So you think everyone should become a vegetarian?

Your choice. You're given the education, education wont kill you. Your
diet will.

>You think that would make us all healthier?

It sure will.

>I'd prefer not to get my vitamins and nutrients from the chemically composed
>vitamin suplements that I'd have to take in order to maintain a balanced
>diet.

Then eat a proper veggie diet.

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:46:38 PM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:39:40 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

You're obviously a sensitive fishing gnome!

> It must be due to the lack of meat based
>nutrition.
>Go and spout your loony leftie veggie bean eating propoganda to someone who
>gives a toss.
>I like meat, and nothing you say will ever change that.

No one can stop you choosing to be a loser.

Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:19:58 PM11/14/07
to

"(not quite so) Fat Sam" <saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote in
message news:doqdndCW45jVf6fa...@giganews.com...

>
> I absolutely love duck. It's one of my favourites, but I have to say that
> the meat froma turkey can be right tasty too, so long as it's not bland
> white breast meat. Take any of the darker cuts and the flavour becomes so
> much richer. It's still not a patch on duck though.
> As I'm on a healthy eating thing at the moment, and I've done so well
> lately, I'm seriously considering going for a healthy option this
> Christmas, and maybe having fish instead. A nice big fresh salmon.
> It's by no means traditional, but it's certainly different and unusual.

if eating out, and duck is on the menu, I tend to go for the duck.One or two
places near us do it really well, and I confess that I do like duck with an
orange sauce, which probably puts me well down in the philistine category

I had quail at a friends a few months back, and he has a knack with them and
they were good as well, they certainly avoid the duck problem of too much
for one and not enough for two ;-))

Jim Webster


Jim Webster

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:20:53 PM11/14/07
to

"JAF" <anarchSP...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:kh4mj31b22q1r75lp...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:11:52 +0000, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>SALMON
> [...]
>
> Bored now
>
not with Stubbsy and his smoked salmon, where is Stubbsy with Christmas
coming up?

Jim Webster


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 12:55:52 PM11/14/07
to

I understand Tesco have stopped supplying him. Something to do with
forged clubcard points!

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 1:45:38 PM11/14/07
to

No it won't.

>> You think that would make us all healthier?
>
> It sure will.

Then you are wrong.

>> I'd prefer not to get my vitamins and nutrients from the chemically
>> composed vitamin suplements that I'd have to take in order to
>> maintain a balanced diet.
>
> Then eat a proper veggie diet.

No.
I don't want to be weak with bad skin.


(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 1:46:15 PM11/14/07
to

Coming from a bean muncher?
Oh, the irony.


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 1:55:44 PM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:45:38 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

You can only lead a horse to water.

Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:00:52 PM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:46:15 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

Read on there's more.#

http://www.beansforhealth.org/research.html#whyeat

Why are we wild about beans? Dry beans and other pulses are one of the
most nutritionally-complete staple foods, inexpensive and widely
available. World health crises, including persistent malnutrition in
some parts of the world and obesity in others, and chronic diseases,
type 2 diabetes and HIV/AIDS, can be combated with food-based
interventions. That’s right, beans can help reduce the world’s health
problems! Keep reading to find out how.

Bean Nutrition and Health Benefits

Antioxidants
Cancer
Cardiovascular Disease
Consumption Trends
Diabetes
HIV/AIDS
Longevity
Nutrient Availability
Review Articles

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:13:48 PM11/14/07
to

Actually, you can eat it as well.


(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:15:05 PM11/14/07
to

Is it more interesting than the other dull, mis-informed stuff you
cut'n'pasted earlier?


Gloria

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:26:20 PM11/14/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:05 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<saman...@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

You can lead a horse to water...

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2007, 2:31:48 PM11/14/07
to

And you can eat it too.
Horse meat, or Carne Equine, is extremely tasty.


The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 3:57:06 AM11/15/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:45:20 +0000, Gloria wrote:

<snip>

> Then eat a proper veggie diet.

And fly in the face of a few millenia of evolution?

We're omnivores. Whether you like it or not, we ain't designed to exist on
a wholly vegetarian diet. Far more important and apposite that we eat a
proper balanced diet.

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 3:58:25 AM11/15/07
to

Define the criteria for 'loser'.

The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 4:02:24 AM11/15/07
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:26:20 +0000, Gloria wrote:

<snip>

> You can lead a horse to water...

You said that before.

Are your arguments so bereft of credibility that you feel the need to
resort to such asinine and jingo-istic epithets?

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Gloria

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 7:02:36 AM11/15/07
to
On 15 Nov 2007 11:38:26 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>On 2007-11-14, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:05 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
>
>>

>> You can lead a horse to water...
>

>Look, bozo,

Go home fatso.

Amethyst Deceiver

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 7:24:07 AM11/15/07
to
Gloria wrote:
> On 15 Nov 2007 11:38:26 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-14, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:05 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
>>
>>>
>>> You can lead a horse to water...
>>
>> Look, bozo,
>
> Go home fatso.

Huge is big.
You are thick.
Huge can lose weight.
Huge wins.
--
You're a lot smarter than you look.
Of course, you look like a retard.


Gloria

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 7:31:57 AM11/15/07
to
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:24:07 -0000, "Amethyst Deceiver"
<sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:

>Gloria wrote:
>> On 15 Nov 2007 11:38:26 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2007-11-14, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:05 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can lead a horse to water...
>>>
>>> Look, bozo,
>>
>> Go home fatso.
>

>Huge is thick.
>You are big.
>Huge can't lose weight.
>Huge wins a years supply of McDs swill.

I like that.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 11:59:49 AM11/15/07
to
On 15 Nov 2007 11:36:37 GMT, Huge wrote:

> On 2007-11-15, The Wanderer <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:45:20 +0000, Gloria wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> Then eat a proper veggie diet.
>>
>> And fly in the face of a few millenia of evolution?
>>
>> We're omnivores. Whether you like it or not, we ain't designed to exist on
>> a wholly vegetarian diet. Far more important and apposite that we eat a
>> proper balanced diet.
>>
>

> Damn you, Sir, introducing rationality into a nice mutual exchange of rants.

I see that whilst 'Gloria' has replied to your posts, 'it' doesn't want to
engage in a rational debate on the subject. Now I wonder why that would
be.....

Gloria

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 12:04:08 PM11/15/07
to
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:59:49 +0000, The Wanderer <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:

>On 15 Nov 2007 11:36:37 GMT, Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-15, The Wanderer <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:45:20 +0000, Gloria wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> Then eat a proper veggie diet.
>>>
>>> And fly in the face of a few millenia of evolution?
>>>
>>> We're omnivores. Whether you like it or not, we ain't designed to exist on
>>> a wholly vegetarian diet. Far more important and apposite that we eat a
>>> proper balanced diet.
>>>
>>
>> Damn you, Sir, introducing rationality into a nice mutual exchange of rants.
>
>I see that whilst 'Gloria' has replied to your posts, 'it' doesn't want to
>engage in a rational debate on the subject. Now I wonder why that would
>be.....

Perhaps because you're an irrational prick and obvious troll?

(not quite so) Fat Sam

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 12:18:04 PM11/15/07
to

Well that was hardly a rational answer, was it?
People won't treat you in a rational manner if you can't bahave in a
rational way.


The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 15, 2007, 1:02:12 PM11/15/07
to

Oh, a troll I definitely ain't.

Please tell me why my comments are irrational.

Message has been deleted

Phil Kyle

unread,
Nov 16, 2007, 4:15:41 AM11/16/07
to
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in
news:fhhh95$52r$1...@anubis.demon.co.uk:

> On 2007-11-15, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:24:07 -0000, "Amethyst Deceiver"
>><sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Gloria wrote:
>>>> On 15 Nov 2007 11:38:26 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2007-11-14, Gloria <enqu...@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:05 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can lead a horse to water...
>>>>>
>>>>> Look, bozo,
>>>>
>>>> Go home fatso.
>>>
>>>Huge is thick.
>>>You are big.
>>>Huge can't lose weight.
>>>Huge wins a years supply of McDs swill.
>>
>> I like that.
>
>

> How amusing. Still, it fits in with the rest of your postings; 100%
> crap.
>
>
>

You find crap amusing?

At least he doesn't set FU's without saying anything, twat.

--

P
h
i
l

K
y
l
e

W
o
z

E
r
e

0 new messages