Author Topic: Siginficant noise reduction for 4 shop vacs (under $25 Cdn) - Festool comparable  (Read 16100 times)

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Offline ChuckS

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Noise improvements after using fibreglass insulation material: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/owens-corning-r-12-ecotouch-pink-pak-plus-pink-fiberglas-insulation-15-inch-x-32-feet-x-3-5-inch-40-sq-ft-/1000789365

Shop vac Ridgid from 70dB to 63 dB (over 80dB box door open, or over 90dB if unboxed)
Shop vac for drill press, etc. from 90dB to 75dB
Shop vac for Kapex - lowered to 75dB

I still have material left to do the shop vac for the SawStop (overarm dust collection) later.

The CT15 I use for the Domino Joiner & sanders is said to be rated at 62 - 72dB.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 02:00 PM by ChuckS »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1742
Just be carefull with the fiberglass. I would never consider it in the interior. Nasty stuff.

Recycled-cloth-style sheets would be my choice.
The Machine has no brain. Use Yours!

Offline ChuckS

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As seen in the images, the insulation material stays undisturbed after it is applied to the shop vac, avoiding the risk of any tiny fibers and particles being released into the air.

Offline Steve1

  • Posts: 357
The Festool vacs are expensive, but one of my better investments just the same.

With my old Shop Vac brand vacuum, I refused to even turn it on without first putting on hearing protection.

Offline ChuckS

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The Festool CT15 (and previously a CT26) I have is good in noise level, but I still always wear ear protection whenever it's used with another machine. Noise level per se hence wasn't the key reason I wanted a CT, it's its HEPA filter that I need.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 10:35 AM by ChuckS »

Offline cubevandude

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I'd be very curious to see temperature reading of the motors as you have covered up the cooling features of the vac motors.

Offline ChuckS

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Good question, and it did cross my mind at the time that whether overheating could happen.

After 6 months, all 4 insulated vacs (for SawStop, Kapex, bandsaw/oscillating sander, and drill press/stationary sander) are still performing with no noticeable side-effects. The SawStop is the most used machine (used almost in every project undertaken), followed by the Kapex and drill press/sander, both in the second place.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 09:21 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Bob D.

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"With my old Shop Vac brand vacuum, I refused to even turn it on without first putting on hearing protection."

I am the same with my old Craftsman vac which was made by Emerson. It is over 30 years old but won't die. I checked the brushes last year and they still have plenty of life in them. It has gobs of suction but is noisy as all get out. Can't stand to use it without earmuffs for more than 30 seconds.

But I'll drag it out when I have something too nasty for the CT-36. That Craftsman is like a Billy Goat, it will eat just about anything and ask for more. Fortunately I still have 1 HEPA and 3 dry filters for it and they are all reusable so I should have enough to last me.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline AnthonyE

  • Posts: 23
I would agree with the @mino about the use of fiberglass insulation, I feel like Rockwool insulation would be a much better choice here. I also like @cubevandude's point about motor cooling. All electric tool motors have some sort of fan attached to the motor shaft to cool the windings when in operation. If you're choking off the airflow to this motor it will inevitable over heat in time and will fail. Even though you aren't seeing an issue at the moment doesn't mean that you're not slowly melting the winding insulation a little at a time, which is how all failures occur. On that same note, Rockwool insulation is flame resistant therefore would be a bit more safe if there was an electrical failure that causes some sparks/flame/high heat.

On the positive note, I do like the idea to reduce shop vac db's. The motors spin at such a high rpm to get the air velocity a shop vac requires. This high motor speed is the reason for such a loud machine. Festool has done a great job of reducing this noise but the cheaper shop vac's don't consider insulating this noise. If in integrated a path for outside air to enter into the cooling vents of the motor then I would have no worries about this design. And the use of Rockwool would certainly aid fire proofing the setup.

Offline ChuckS

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After two years of usage, the fibreglass insulation has proven a good means of reducing noise with no effect on the shop vacs or motors. If I have another shop vac to insulate, I may give the Rockwool a try. I'm open to all kinds of shop fixes.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1742
After two years of usage, the fibreglass insulation has proven a good means of reducing noise with no effect on the shop vacs or motors. If I have another shop vac to insulate, I may give the Rockwool a try. I'm open to all kinds of shop fixes.
Great to hear ... when I wrote "nasty" it was about breathing it, not the motor health. Motors do not have any soft tissue for loose fibers to get stuck into.

Rockwool is incomparably better as it is body-decomposable for the most part. Should some (inevitably) be breathed-in, the body can handle it and heal the wound. Not so with glass. It stays in as a persistent irritant, re-opening the micro-wound all over.

The advantage of fiberglass relative to asbestos, is that fiberglass is heavier/bigger so it does not stay suspended in the air nearly as long. However, once breathed-in, that no longer matters. Fibreglass fibers or asbesthos ones have pretty much the same effects as the body cannot get rid of them. So using it in any air-moving/processing appliance is a big no-no in general.

Sorry for raining a bit on the "parade". I have several of my vacs muffled as well, using elastic foams. Just would not touch fiberglass for this use.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2024, 10:24 AM by mino »
The Machine has no brain. Use Yours!

Offline ChuckS

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Raining on my parade? Not at all; you're simply offering a warning on the risks of using the fibreglass insulation without care.

I determined that the material was safe to use as long as it stayed undisturbed:

https://dph.illinois.gov/topics-services/environmental-health-protection/toxicology/hazardous-substances/fiberglass.html


Offline ChuckS

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I looked into Rockwool and found that some sites seemed to be casting it as "bad" as or as good as fibreglass insulation in terms of health precautions. This one is more netural in its assessment, but it still points to some concerns:

https://materialsmarket.com/insulation/insulation-slabs/rockwool-insulation-slab/rockwool-rw3-slab

The product prices are higher than those of fibreglass insulation.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2024, 09:13 AM by ChuckS »

Offline mino

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From what I gather (being a physical chemist by trade):

Asbestos >>> (fiber)Glass >> mineral wool (aka ROCKwool) >>> cotton/plastics/etc.

The problem with the first two is that the body cannot decompose the fibres.

The huge problem with Asbestos (as compared to glass) is that while glass fibers are actually liquid, so they break across (making them shorter and thus less damaging) the asbestos fibres are solid and brittle, they break "along the grain" into smaller but still fibres.
This eventually results into a bunch of so small fibres that stay "floating" in the air even over a several days/weeks period. Unlike glass fibres which will settle on the gound in a couple hours.

With rock wool, the minerals it is made from are mostly acid-solvable and the lung fluid will decompose them over time. So even if they scar the tissue, it is a one-off effect that will heal eventually. Unlike with glass and, especially, asbestos.

Now, again, being a chemist, I have a huge peeve with the "studies" equating the fiberglass with mineral wools. The problem is that the studies actually test NOT for the fibres decomposition but the fibres *binder* decomposition. And since the same binder is mostly used, they get "same" results. Now guess who funds these studies ... fiberglass producers. And who pays a study gets to define the question being asked ... formulate the question smartly, and you can mis-inform the regulatory bodies with ease ..


Either way, both fiberglass and rockwool are fine when not disturbed. So above is more for posterity than relating to your use case.

I mentioned it because the Festool vacs use sound dampening in the air path ... using foam which is safe. So I have (incorrectly) presumed you possibly did something similar .. or that someone reading your post may interpret it that way.
The Machine has no brain. Use Yours!

Offline ChuckS

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Snip


Either way, both fiberglass and rockwool are fine when not disturbed. So above is more for posterity than relating to your use case.

I mentioned it because the Festool vacs use sound dampening in the air path ... using foam which is safe. So I have (incorrectly) presumed you possibly did something similar .. or that someone reading your post may interpret it that way.

Thanks for the detailed coverage.

I'll keep that in mind and protect myself whenever the insulation needs to be disturbed.