News

• Jim and I are doing the second annual Gingerbread Challenge in Walt Disney World, starting Friday December 2, 2022.  
  

• We’re doing a live podcast recording on December 2.  Tickets available at
  
  https://tinyurl.com/gingerbreaddish
  
• Topic: March of the Wooden Soldiers

• Location: Disney’s Contemporary Resort, walking distance to the Magic Kingdom

• Breakfast starts at 8 a.m., podcast starts at 8:30 and should run for no more than 3 hours.
• It’s a Friday/Saturday (Dec 2 and Dec 3)
  

• I’m speaking at IAAPA (Int’l Ass of Amusement Parks and Attractions) in Orlando on November 18.  It’s in the morning, and you can register for this at https://tinyurl.com/iaapa-len

• Jim, I want to take a minute here to acknowledge the passing of Disney Legend Alice Davis, who passed away last week.  Alice was the costume designer responsible for the look of tons of Disney’s best attractions, including It’s a Small World and Pirates of the Caribbean, and was the one who established Disney’s costume manufacturing and refurbishment processes.  Alice was named a Disney Legend in 2004, and has a window on Main Street U.S.A. in Disneyland.
  
• Disney DVC members have a new spot to watch Magic Kingdom fireworks, starting this week.  The Top of the World Lounge - Villains Lair, has a new fireworks dessert party.  

• Check-in starts 1 hour 30 minutes prior to the published fireworks time for Magic Kingdom park.
• Enchantment at the Top Dessert Party is $89.00 per adult, plus tax and $49.00 per child, plus tax.
• Reserved table inside the lounge on the day of their reservation, a dessert buffet and an open bar for Guests 21 years of age and older.
  
  Jim, I have to say, I love how Disney’s marketing this:
  
  Even the ruthless relax.
  
  Whether pursuing puppies or stealing souls, messing with a mermaid or belittling a beast, evil-doing is exhausting. And since a dishonest day’s work is frowned upon by mainstream masses, the deliciously devious decompress away from judging eyes––hiding deep underground… or on top of the world. Swapping stories of sabotage and toasting with tales of terror, the unsavory unwind in places inaccessible to the innocent.
  

• Today - November 10 - marks the 23rd anniversary of the closing of one of Walt Disney World’s original attractions - the Magic Kingdom Skyway.  These open-air gondola buckets transported guests between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland.  It was cool enough that Disney advertised each one-way ride as its own attraction.  
  
  
  
• Construction continues apace on the new Polynesian DVC tower, between the Polynesian and Grand Floridian. If you're staying at the Poly in the near future, consider requesting something in Niue, Rarotonga, or Samoa instead. Those will be farther from the Magic Kingdom.  

But because every Disney cloud, Jim, has a magical silver lining, those rooms are closer to the GCH and the TTC, and allow more direct, face-on views of the Magic Kingdom’s nightly fireworks show, Disney Enchantment, presented by Pandora, which is truly a celebration of magic, imagination, joy and hope for all who carry dreams in their hearts. Throughout your journey, favorite Disney Characters like Raya, Moana and Joe Gardner from Soul will join as you explore a world of wonder filled with friendship, love and fun. And if darkness tries to hold you back, you’ll discover you only have to look within to find the power to believe and make your dreams come true.

So staying in these rooms at the Polynesian will demonstrate that the magic has been inside you all along!

• Speaking of hotel rooms, Jim, I’ve been reading the comments that Unofficial Guide and TouringPlans users leave in their surveys about Disney hotels.  And the thing I find remarkable to this day, is how much people love the Skyliner.  And it just begs the question: what’s the economic reason for NOT expanding the Skyliner?

Surveys

Friend of the show and author of the UG to DCL, Erin Foster, was the first to send in this survey question from Disney.  And based on the number of similar emails we got, and seeing them pop up on Twitter, I think Disney’s sending out more of these now.

Listener Questions

From Adrian:

I had a long drive on Monday and as one typically does with 3 hours to kill, listened to my favorite podcasts, including episode 399 of the Disney Dish. At the 17-minute mark you began to discuss a survey that Leandro sent in and read off the answers to the first question.

As you said "I seriously considered spending more days," the podcast stopped, the car speakers went silent, and with my phone connected to my car via Apple's CarPlay, Siri engaged on my car's display to listen for further instruction. I thought I had maybe pressed something accidentally on the steering wheel, so I rewound 15 seconds and tried listening again.

Upon those words "I seriously considered spending more days” wowing said again, the podcast stopped and Siri turned on to listen. I then did this three more times, for a total of five, with four out of the five engaging Siri on my phone. Unintentional activation of the synergy machine complete.

One can only imagine the magical activations once Disney gets those Alexa devices installed in the resort rooms. Until then, keep living in the future, man.

From Peter:

I was playing around with some numbers and decided to estimate how each Disney attraction might affect capacity in the Magic Kingdom. I came up with the following chart very roughly estimating how many square feet are required per guest per hour sorted by attraction.  I posted the results at the following on twitter.

Two questions: One, aside from being an opening day attraction at MK, why wouldn't it be valuable to reinvest in the land where Tomorrowland speedway is located.  Pretty much any new attraction here would increase capacity exponentially, also it's a great location.  

Second, do you think Tron's low capacity to space ratio is an indication of any future rides so that they can leverage the profits associated with Individual Lightning Lanes and Genie+.

Disney Patents

Len: Frontierland Fries, also known as the Westward Ho Fry Cart, which is where Golden Oak Outpost is now in Frontierland, used to serve McDonald’s fries and chicken nuggets.  It was rated about the same as Pecos Bill’s, and better than most of the counter-service restaurants in the Magic Kingdom.  I think it was 1997 to 2007?  And also Fantasyland, I think?

There was also Fairfax Fries in the Studios, which served McDonald’s fries.

And in Epcot, you could visit Refreshment Port in World Showcase near Canada. In addition to McDonald’s French Fries, you can also get genuine Chicken McNuggets and genuine McFlurry shakes.

And Petrifries in Animal Kingdom, in Dinoland, AND Restaurantosaurus, which had a variety of McDonald’s items.

But that wasn’t the first time that McDonald’s and Disney talked about theme park partnerships, right?

Disney / McDonald’s Series

Part One of Three

Len came across this amazing document the other day over at DisneyDocs.net. It’s this packet that Stephen Zdunek – who was the regional Vice President for the San Diego Region of the McDonald’s Corporation – sent to Disneyland executives in December of 1987. And it proposes a pretty wild idea.

On Episode 271 of Disney Dis, Len and I talked about ‘’Blast to the Past.’’ Which was this seasonal event that was staged at Disneyland Park starting in mid-March of 1988 and then ending in early May of that same year. Where the Happiest Place on Earth then celebrated the 1950s. And classic cars with fins were parked along Main Street, U.S.A. and Cast Members dressed in black leather jackets with greased back hair (That’s if you were a guy. If you were a female Cast Members, you wore a poodle skirt and peddle pushers) danced in the street to ‘’Rock Around the Clock’’ and ‘’Blueberry Hill.’’

“Blast to the Past’’ was a hugely successful season promotion, by the way. So much so that Disneyland brought it back in the Late Winter / early Spring of 1989. Where this celebration of the 1950s did an equally good job of convincing Southern California locals that they really needed to make a special trip out to Anaheim to then get in on this limited-time-only fun.

And I say ‘’limited-time-only fun,’’ this was because ‘’Blast to the Past’’ was only presented for six weeks. And then all of those 1950’s era decorations that had been placed along Main Street, U.S.A. would get pulled down and stashed backstage.

Okay. Back now to Stephen Zdunek’s letter to Disneyland execs. Which I’ll remind you was dated December 12, 1987. Which is basically three months prior to the start of the very first ‘’Blast to the Past’’ at that theme park. Which officially got underway on March 19, 1988.

And Zdunek – who (at that time, anyway) represented 430 McDonald’s franchisees in that part of California – had clearly heard about Disneyland’s plan when it came to ‘’Blast to the Past.’’ And Stephen wanted in.

So this is what he proposed. Given that the McDonald’s franchise had gotten its start in Southern California back in the 1950s and had ALMOST been part of Disneyland right from the very beginning …

Quick side note here: We probably need to stop for a sec and talk about that letter which Ray Kroc (who’s been called ‘’fast food’s founding father.’’ Ray’s the guy who took McDonald’s and transformed it from a local chain to the world’s most profitable restaurant) … Anyway, we need to talk about the letter that Ray Kroc sent Walt Disney back in October of 1954.

Just so you know, though: The parallels between Walt Disney and McDonald’s founder Ray Kroc’s lives are beyond spooky. EX: Walt and Ray were both from Illinois (Disney was born in 1901, Kroc born in 1902). And — when they were teenage boys — both men lied about their age so that they could enlist in the Red Cross ambulance service during World War I.

Weird? Wait. It gets weirder. Disney and Kroc end up getting assigned to the very same unit: Ambulance Company A (which actually shipped out for France right after the Armistice was signed in 1918). And while they’re overseas, these two boys from the Midwest strike up … well, not exactly a friendship. But at least an acquaintance-ship.

At the very least, Ray knew young Walt well enough to describe the future movie mogul thusly in his 1977 autobiography, Grinding It Out: The Making of McDonald’s: “(Disney) was regarded as an odd duck, because whenever we had time off and went out on the town to chase girls, (Walt) stayed in camp drawing pictures.”

Eventually, Ray and Walt both returned to the US. They both quickly abandon the Midwest, heading out to Southern California to seek fame and fortune.

We jump ahead now to 1954. When Kroc is working with Richard and “Mac” McDonald, two brothers who are having tremendous success with their San Bernadino, CA restaurant thanks to its innovative “Speedee Service System.” Ray thinks that this food service system has huge potential. Which is why he’s already set up satellite McDonald’s operations out in Alhambra & over in Downey.

So picture this. We’re back at a time when the entire McDonald’s fast food chain is just three restaurants total. And then — in April of 1954 — that Walt Disney unveiled his plans for Disneyland. And as soon as Ray heard about what his old “war buddy” was up to, Kroc saw an opportunity to further expand his then-fledgling fast food operation.

Which is why — in October of 1954 — Ray sent the following letter to Walt. In part, it read:

Dear Walt,

I feel somewhat presumptuous addressing you in this way. Yet I am sure you would not want me to address you any other way … My name is Ray A. Kroc … I look over the Company A picture we had taken in Sound Beach, Conn. many times and recall a lot of pleasant memories.

Okay. Having buttered up his old “war buddy” a bit, Kroc — the super salesman — now moves in for the kill.

I have very recently taken over the national franchise of the McDonald’s system. I would like to inquiry if there may be an opportunity for a McDonald’s in your Disneyland Development.

Kroc’s concept was that — given the ten of thousands of people who were sure to flock to Disneyland once the theme park actually opened — Walt was going to need a restaurant that would be able to quickly feed crowds of this size. Ray insisted that the McDonald brothers’ “Speedee Service System” would be up to this daunting task, churning out hundreds of hot, fresh, tasty hamburgers every hour. Which could then be sold for a very affordable price.

Walt responded quite cordially to Kroc’s note, then told the former Red Cross ambulance driver that he would be handing Ray’s proposal over to the Disneyland executive who was in charge of Disneyland’s concessions. And after that … well … the story gets kind of murky.

I mean, we all know now that – when Disneyland finally opened in July of 1955 – it didn’t have a McDonald’s in its assortment of onsite restaurants. But as to why that is …

To his dying day, Ray Kroc insisted that the real reason that Disneyland didn’t open with a McDonald’s inside of its berm (deep down in Tomorrowland. That was the original proposed location of this restaurant. Or so I’ve been told) …

Anyway, the reason – according to Ray Kroc, anyway – that Disneyland opened in July of 1955 without a restaurant in Tomorrowland that featured McDonald’s ‘’Speedee Service System’’ was that the manager who was in charge of concessions at Disneyland while this family fun park was still under construction tried to force Ray to raise the prices of the food that he would be selling at this inside-the-berm McDonald’s.

To be specific, Kroc supposedly balked because the head of concessions at Disneyland insisted that Ray raise the price of a single order of McDonald’s French Fries from 10 cents to 15 cents. The idea behind this particular price boost was that — by adding that extra nickel to the cost of the fries — Walt Disney Productions was, in effect, tacking on a concessionaire’s fee. As in: Ray could keep 10 cents out of the 15 cents that he charged for his French Fries. But that other nickel would go straight into Disneyland’s coffers.

To hear Kroc tell this story: Ray hit the roof as soon as he heard about this demand by Disneyland’s then head-of-concessions. Kroc insisted that he would never deliberately price gouge his patrons, overcharge customers for food just so Walt Disney Production could make an extra 5 cents off of every bag of French Fries that he sold. Which is why Kroc says he decided to back out of the Disneyland project.

Side note: From 1954 to roughly mid-1960, Walt Disney Productions was NOT calling the shots when it came to food concessions at Disneyland Park. ABC controlled that aspect of park operations through its ABC Paramount division (which operated a number of food concessions on the East Coast).

So just so we’re clear here: If the story Ray Kroc is telling is true, it wasn’t some executive associated with Walt Disney Productions who was telling him to raise his prices. But – rather – some manager at ABC Paramount. So it wasn’t like it was Walt himself who was telling Ray to deliberately price gouge his customers so that Disneyland could then get an extra nickel.

Anyway … This is the story that Kroc told McDonald’s employees – and reporters – for years. That his restaurant was supposed to have been at Disneyland on opening day. But that’s because the original management team at that theme park was insisting that Ray price gouge his customers, Kroc ultimately pulled out of the project.

Just so you know: The spot where this original in-park McDonald’s was reportedly supposedly going to be built was where the Dairy Bar (which operated in Disneyland’s Tomorrowland section from January of 1956 – September of 1958) was located. As you walked through Tomorrowland heading for the ‘’Flight to the Moon’’ ride,  the Dairy Bar would have been on the right side of Tomorrowland’s main walkway, right next to that walk-thru attraction featuring props & sets from Disney’s 1954 film, ‘’20,000 Leagues Under The Sea.’’

Anyway … Back to Stephen Zdunek now … Stephen had worked for the McDonald’s Corporation for long enough that he’d personally heard Ray Kroc tell his story about how Disneyland almost had a McDonald’s on its opening day. And he saw the inaugural ‘’Blast to the Past’’ seasonal celebration as a way to right a wrong.

So here’s what Zdunkek proposed in his letter to Disneyland execs. That these two giant corporations pool their resources when it comes to public relations and marketing. And that – for the 60 run of Disneyland’s ‘’The Future is Back’’ celebration – a replica of the original McDonald’s operate inside of Disneyland Park.

Okay. So Zdunek got the name of this seasonal celebration at Disneyland wrong (i.e., ‘’’Blast to the past,’’ NOT ‘’The Future is Back’’). He also got the run of this show wrong (i.e., six weeks, NOT 60 days). But Stephen was quite serious about building a full-sized McDonald’s inside of Disneyland Park that would look just like the restaurants that this fast food chain operated back in the 1950s. More to the point, that this 1950’s style McDonald’s would only operate in the Park for the run of ‘’Blast to the Past’’ and then get pulled down.

‘’And how exactly would they do that?,’’ you ask. The short answer is … McDonald’s actually does this all the time. When this fast food chain holds its annual convention (which is the McDonald’s Corporation Worldwide Conference) in Orlando and/or Las Vegas, they don’t just have one full-sized McDonald’s built there on the show floor, they build three full-sized restaurants. So that event attendees / potential franchisees can then look at all of the various variations when it comes to restaurant layout & operations the Company is now considering.

Last one was held at the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando April 4 – 7, 2022

And all three of these full-sized – more importantly, fully operational – McDonalds features working grills, cash wraps, deep friers. The works. They can be loaded into a convention center and constructed in just one week’s time. And these full-sized restaurants need a similar amount of time for tear down. This is why – when a McDonald’s Corporation Worldwide Conference is being presented at your local convention center – it means the week prior to this corporate event happening – that convention center is locked down. Likewise the week after that Worldwide Conference. Because McDonald’s doesn’t want any of its fast food-related secrets being revealed to its rivals in that field.

Anyway … The proposal that Zdunek sent along to Disneyland execs include a hand-drawn rendering of  this proposed 1950s-style McDonald’s. And it is quite charming in a retro way, with the golden arches supporting the roof of that building and all.

But Disneyland execs said “No.’’ Mind you, they let all of the McDonald’s in the area surrounding Anaheim sell discount tickets to ‘’Blast to the Past.’’ But they wouldn’t let this fast food chain build a restaurant inside of that theme park.

Not yet, anyway. That wouldn’t happen ‘til nearly 10 years later. In 1997. And that only came after McDonald’s and Disney had a falling out over – of all things – “Dick Tracy.” That Warren Beatty movie which the Mouse released to theaters in June of 1990. Which was supposed to have been the next ‘’Batman’’ but basically bombed at the box office.

But we’ll get to that story – and the Westward Ho Fry Cart – in the next installment of this series next week.