Accusations Regarding Child Pornography in Second Life
Wednesday, May 9th, 2007 at 10:32 PM by: Robin LindenWhat’s going on?
On Thursday May 3, we were contacted by German television network, ARD, which had captured images of two avatars, one that resembled an adult male and another that resembled a child, engaged in depicted sexual conduct. Our investigations revealed the users behind these avatars to be a 54-year-old man and a 27-year-old woman. Both were immediately banned from Second Life.
During a subsequent interview with ARD’s Report Mainz documentary on Friday May 4, which aired Monday, the reporter presented photographs that he said were found in Second Life and that appeared to include sexual photographs involving a child.
ARD reports that it has handed the images to a state attorney in Halle, Germany. Linden Lab has proactively attempted to contact the authorities, as is our practice if ever an image of child pornography is reported in Second Life, but has not received a response or any other contact from the German authorities.
Despite requests, neither ARD nor the Germany authorities have yet disclosed to us the location of the photographic images in question, and we have not been able to independently locate them. No further details about the images or the potential investigation reported in the German press are known to us at this time.
Linden Lab’s stance on child pornography
Linden Lab has absolutely zero tolerance for depictions of child pornography within Second Life. We were outraged to see the images that ARD showed us, and will cooperate fully with any legal authorities that choose to investigate the individuals involved in such activities. Child pornography is, of course, illegal and as such is a breach of our Terms of Service. It goes without saying that anyone engaged in this activity will be permanently banned from Second Life, and subject to legal consequences.
Residents are responsible for the content and their activities in Second Life. All Residents are required, as a condition to using Second Life, to assert that they will not use Second Life for illegal purposes. The overwhelming majority of Residents respect and abide by this pledge, and we know that it is the rare exception when someone doesn’t. To date, SL Residents have been active and vocal in reporting any broadly offensive behavior.
Depictions of child pornography in Second Life of which we have been informed have been exceedingly rare. Whenever we have been informed of any such instances, Linden Lab has immediately removed the offending images, and involved appropriate authorities. We behave entirely like other Internet Service Providers in this respect. In the US, we notify and work with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and other appropriate authorities, and we will work with similar organizations in other countries.
What are the consequences?
We simply will not tolerate the depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving minors in Second Life.
If Linden Lab learns that someone is engaging in, advertising or promoting locations or activities involving the depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving minors, their account will be terminated, and we will fully cooperate with all appropriate authorities.
If a Resident possesses or distributes real-world pornographic images in Second Life that appear to involve minors, their account will be terminated and their details provided to real-world authorities, as has always been our policy.
Age Verification
As you know, minors are not allowed in Second Life.
We are in the process of implementing an improved electronic age verification system that will verify Residents’ ages by using different forms of identification, such as national identification numbers, passports, and social security numbers. This will enable us and our Residents to block mature content from anyone who has not affirmatively verified they are an adult.
What’s next?
In the specific case detailed above, we will fully cooperate with German authorities in their investigation of the individuals involved. Further, we will continue to communicate with, and seek guidance from, official youth protection bodies such as the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the United States, and similar organizations in other countries, to develop “best practices” designed to prevent the misuse of Second Life for illegal purposes.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:45 PM
Good. Get rid of them. They were never welcome here. Ever.
*applauds Linden Lab’s proper and hard stance on such outrageous conduct*
May 9th, 2007 at 10:46 PM
Um…But you just said that the people involved …i.e. roleplaying child pornography are well over the age of consent. I’m not necessarily condoning that sort of role play but that kind of thing is a far crry from actual real world child pornography and it seems to me that you’re panicking just a fair bit.
I think that no one…I repeat no one…wants to see Second Life become a haven for child molesters or child pornographers but that seems different from role play which considering you’ve just said the two parties are 54 and 27 respectively …that’s what it was essentially.
Also, age verification will NOT prevent thtis sort of role play since the two parties are consenting adults
I realize you need to cover your collective butts but…panic button much ya’ll?
May 9th, 2007 at 10:48 PM
I agree with Ann…
May 9th, 2007 at 10:48 PM
PS: I repeat, I’m not condoning or praising the people who did this. I’m just as glad they are gone but since this seems to be partly responsible for the sudden age verification thing…i just don’t see how age verification in any form is going to prevent play acting, however repulsive it may be to onlookers.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:48 PM
So because of what two adult doing something that most of the community has been yelling at you to stop everyone has to give up enough personal information to make a loan? Sorry but that is completely illogical. Age verification wouldn’t have stopped what they did as you yourself say. And it is not that hard to find similar things on sl. A simple search for age play will give you pages and pages of search results. Don’t make us pay for what two adults did by treating everyone on second life like a child until proven otherwise. I am all for age verification but not the way you describe and the bud.tv age verification that the company you are with used simply doesn’t work. And nor will it even at it’s most verilent stop children from simply taking the dl and ss card out of there parents wallet just like they would a credit card. Don’t make us have to give up our rights simply so you can cover your ass and pass the buck to us. Don’t make us pay simply because some parents can’t keep an eye on there children and defiantly don’t make us do something that has nothing to do with and will not help at all with what you are getting yelled at for.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:53 PM
Excuse me, you banned two Residents, both _mature_, who did a little role-playing? No children, I reapeat… NO CHILDREN were harmed or even _involved_ in that act. It’s a hunt for viewer levels on ARDs side! Please, the whole thing is just ridicoulus, it’s _imagination_ after all! Since when is fantasy against the fricking law?
Banned from Second Life because of two mature individuals who agreed to have depict sexual intercourse. Makes perfect sense, doesn’t it?
May 9th, 2007 at 10:53 PM
I saw this Report too and was shocked, there is really zero tolerance in that. Good Work Robin
and i/we (my Mother) saw that you was shocked in the Interview, about that.
And i think you will get an anwer from them soon.
Greeting from Germany
May 9th, 2007 at 10:55 PM
I find it very interesting that SL now comes up with this stance. Some of my neighbors in Seopophang SIM have clearly had an “ageplay” property which was definitely advertised, I know this because as I was building a house to rent next door, tons of men would drop in looking for sex with little girls and boys. I abhorred the club and thus tried to buy their land to move them to another SIM. At my fetish club, we actively ban child avatars and have always had this policy (which has caused me and my managers much grief from avatars just claiming to be short. We ban any avatar that appears to be a teen, preteen or child. Does it take the German authorities to make SL do anything about their TOS?
May 9th, 2007 at 10:59 PM
I ma very concerned by the subjective nature of all this. “apears to be” is an extremely broad standard.
My avatar is modeled on a real life woman who is over 50 years old, yet to many she :looks like” a child because she is 4ft tall.
This is a common problem with anyone who is not “normal size” and they suffer endless discrimination because of it.
Remember most of Romeo and Juliet involves ’sexual conduct” between two 13/14 year olds!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:05 PM
I am wondering how age verification would have stopped what Tasrill is going on about up there. The two people involved were over the age of 18 which Linden Labs stated above, so that obviously would not help, especially if they were adults depicting children in sexual acts. All for age verification in this electronic age and applaud any changes to stop and prevent child porn or abuse. Reread the above post by the Lindens Tasrill.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:08 PM
I concur with Tasrill, for the most part. The two people involved in the case were over 18, ergo this Age Verification would have had zero effect on that situation. Two adults ages 27 and 54 will still be able to come in after the verification program and do what they did.
Admittedly, the Age Verification is a nice PR move to please authorities… but the consequences on business, content creation, and the general user-friendliness of SL are a bit extreme, especially when you consider that EVERY OTHER BUSINESS ON THE INTERNET accepts credit card info as proof of age.
For my full views on this overreactive PR maneuver by LL can be seen in the last blog, entry #94. Let’s hope they come to their senses eventually, preferably before it damages the economy, content creation and population too badly.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:09 PM
simply points out case law
http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr0019.html
May 9th, 2007 at 11:09 PM
First of all, if SL is a “No Minors Allowed” environment, then selectively requiring some member to prove their age while allowing others to opt-out is a form of discrimination. If ALL members are required by policy be be legal adults, then any required proof must be asked for in the initial sign up phase.
If this “age verification” thing is to help LL avoid legal action or liability, then your current proposal opens you to other legal actions, one of discriminatory practices.
Secondly, the “improved” age verification would never have helped in this case in first place, since the two residents were both of legal age and would have cleared the age verification process.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:11 PM
Here’s a tangential question for you:
Is the ARD reporter being investigated or charged for seeking to acquire, transmission of, and/or possession of child pornography?
A less tangential question, but a significant one:
What about the depiction of adults engaging in consentual sexual acts, one of whom has a pituitary or other hormonal disorder?
What do you actually know about the situation depicted by this image? Was it two of the reporter’s buddies? We all know, I think, that journalistic integrity isn’t exactly what it used to be. I know I’m playing devil’s advocate here, but seriously… reality check.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:11 PM
1. stop people being able to make their avatars be depictions of children. there is NO reason to depict yourself as a child in Second Life. NONE.
2. ACTUALLY ENFORCE PG areas. when i choose a PG area to live, it is not just for cheap land. it is so if my child walks past, they will not see anything inapropiate. however if i report adult avertising from a well known advertister in a PG plot, you always report that it has been “resolved” but still they are there.
3. Stop putting PG and Mature areas side by side in a mix match fashion. for the same reasons as in point 2.
Note. these are just how you SHOULD be running with what you already have, yet cant seem to manage. Age verification will not stop the above.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Correct Tasrill and what the Lindens have stated is that they do not condone such illegal behavior.
Pedophile behavior has exactly zero to do with age verification.
And you are not being asked for enough information to get a loan to be age verified. For a few dollars and in many counties, for free, you can get loads of personal public information on anyone in the county. Does your neighbor have an IRS tax lien on his/her property? hmmm wonder why they would have that going on. Have any of your neighbors filed civil lawsuits against neighbors? good to know before buying a house in a nice area. Wouldn’t want to find out one person sues everyone for walking the dog and the dog relieving itself on a mailbox post.
But beyond that you can run a BI on anyone and for less than 100 bucks find out every car they ever owned, every arrest record, every address they ever lived at, etc, etc.
All Integrity wants is a few tidbits of info. Not enough for a loan.
However, Europeans will have to grudgingly agree to provision of more information asked for in the USA by a US company that a European company could ask for. So I think Europeans have a gripe. But to be age verified in SL they will have no choice.
Again, this has zero to do with pedophilia which is not tolerated pretty much anywhere you go and certainly not in the USA.
Its a very weak position to support pedophilia in any form.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:14 PM
I agree with Ann, on the part that if someone is caught they should be delt with. I also agree with Tasrill on the fact that it was 2 adults that were caught at this so the age verification wouldnt have worked on this at all. Now if LL comes up with a different way to verify my age then i could be persuaded to do so but i will not give out my ss nor any other information that could lead to identity theft. Sorry done been through that once trust me its not fun.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:16 PM
to be constructive in regards to point 2, how about a PG mainland and a mature mainlaind? and existing PG/Mature plot owners being able to move over to a same sized plot on new island for free?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:17 PM
OK Collkama. What if someone has an anime avatar? an anime avatar can look like many things yet the actual rp character be a million years old.
Sorry that doesn’t fly. And there are people in SL that can’t have children in RL who pay for child avatars to behave like children. there is no sexual behavior whatsoever. So you need to think it all the way through before behaving like a USSR KGB agent.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:17 PM
The only real way to get rid of this problem is to ban all ageplay in sl. I cant stand any ageplay, it bugs me alot to see it in sl. As long as they allow ageplay they will always be people that will do sexual ageplay.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:20 PM
Heh, touting their “improved electronic age recognition system” still. I’ll pay the fee, I’ll give my info, but come hell or high water if I enjoy it.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:22 PM
@3 - Absolutely agree with you Tasrill. Verification will not stop this kind of behaviour. Why does LL allow groups that openly advertise ageplay?
Is it not easier to ban child avs all together than to require every resident to be verified? I know that not all child avs engage in sexual age play, but which is the lesser evil - have a minority of avs not be able to be children or require every resident to be verified to use the whole of the grid?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:23 PM
bollards. “i want to be a kid cause i cant have any” doesnt fly with me at all. as for anime that may be an area for discussion.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Y’know.. I sat in on a linden discussion 3 months ago, bringing up this exact same issue, abd proposed at that time some stricter policies and disiplines for SL behaviour, and even mentioned that with the higher profiles of SL in the public eye, that this exact situation was going to happen VERY soon.
I was told no no short terms, that LL was not going to police or regualte anything, and depended upon the individuals to police themselves.
I even closed my argument, saying that as soon as accusations such as this became public, that LL would do an about face, and stomp on this as fast as possible, and that’s exactly waht’s happening now.
There are just some very basic rules for behavious that need to be realized, and it’s about time LL decided to start canning accounts for things like.
Too bad the Linden in charge of the town hall poo poo’d our arguments, and dismissed it off hand.. if they hadn’t maybe this situation would never have occurred.
No one wants a SL that’s so over regulated that nothing can be done at all, but there are some things like this that just need to GO.
As far as the statement there is NO reason to be portrayed as a child in SL, I disagree. I’ve seen an number of people that are role playng being someone else’s child, and the best fairie avi’s I’ve seen have had child like proportions.
If anything our avis need MORE size, scale, and morphing ability, not less.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:25 PM
If (and I am talking now about people in a country where online gambling is legal - please don’t pick me up on this point, take it as read that I know this from my workplace which VERY stringently adheres to the regulations of our Gaming Licence) you were to sign up for an online casino account then simply by signing up you will go through a credit check at the most basic level. You’ll eventually be asked to supply ID to ensure that you are over 18 and live where you say you live.
PURELY for regulatory reasons. LL are simply protecting themselves in an environment where people wish to do what they want to and live out their fantasies. That doesn’t mean everyone’s fantasies are morally - or legally - acceptable.
The ‘confirmed Adult’ areas should help a bit. Apart from anything, and agreeing with what Ann says, people who are playing out family or ageplay fantasies probably have no reason to WANT to visit adult areas in role.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Nothing to say about this specific case. Just ilegal.
But, about this age verification… Well, when the people involved on this are a male 54 and a female 27, this people will pass in this verification, right? And this age verification can’t be a problem for an “verifyed adult” wearing a child skin and shape. So, no reason to justify this resource in that notice.
Weird thing this “age verification” notice.
Passports and IDs… Strange. And in the hands of third part company.
Complete name, email, ID, Credit Card number, Address… wow!
And, in my not so humble opinion, the child access of mature content is a primary problem for your parents. We had lots of tools to do this in our personal computers. But, whathever…
That’s my first “hello” in this blog.
My support requests may be have a response.
My group chat may be accept some carachters not present in english language.
My group may be works good.
My LL checks may be discounted in Brasil.
My age?… This thing can wait a little…
There are too much things to do. It’s hard job, i know. But i disagree about priorities here. I’m sorry.
(well, forgive me if you don’t understand my “booga-ooga” English)
May 9th, 2007 at 11:27 PM
I applaud LL stance against child pornography. It is neither welcome nor wanted in SL.
However, it would appear that in this instance the two culprits concerned were over the age of 18. Therefore age verification would not have kept them off the main grid or stopped them participating in the acts they did.
I agree that age verification is necessary, just not the way it is to be implemented. From my understanding of the age verification process I will not be able to verify my age because of lack of the relevant documents, and to be honest I am not sure I would what to share that information. I find it incredible that I can have a bank account for over 27 years, own a house for 20 years have 3 credit cards, but will be unable to participate in ‘adult’ content on SL.
I will always report abuse to LL that breaks the TOS, but my ability to do so will be severely restricted when I find that large portions of the grid become unavailable to me as more and more land owners flag their land to cover their backs.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:28 PM
Let me get this straight people created avatars and the Second Life websites stand is that pixels having sex is illegal? I dont give a damn if the avatars looked like children. Avatars are not people. Governments need to mind their business and hte website needs to stand up and get some balls.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:29 PM
Age verification helps.
In the mentioned case two residents who are over 18 years “played” child abuse. So luckily enough no real child was envolved. (Nevertheless this behavior can’t be tolerated because it clearly supports real child abuse; therefore, Lindens act to ban and prosecute these ppl was the only right action to choose.)
A proper way to verify age helps to keep minors (if they sneak into second life which they definitly do at the moment) out of adult marked areas where they would be more vulnerable to be catched by abusive ppl.
I think it would be the wrong way to force Lindens to provide a general age verification for everyone. I prefer the way of forcing ppl who provide adult content to mark it as adult content. This way only players who want to use adult content need to worry about verification the rest who doesnt want to use or is too young to use not.
LG Ice Stawberry
May 9th, 2007 at 11:29 PM
I strongly disagree with Coolkama’s want to disable people from having child avatars. There is just as much reason to depict a furry or an alien or a robot as there is to depict a child. There is no reason to remove our ability to play a child avatar just because some people are sick. I encourage people to display themselves however they wish as long as it is within the ToS.
Stop the hate.
LOLIS UNITE!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Sex with children is disgusting in Second Life, adults or not. I wish childrens avatars were not allowed here especially since everyone is supposed to be over 18 anyway.
Even fantasy hsa to have some limitations……..when children are involved.
Perhaps SL needs a teen board, the regular board, and a free for all sex board for all the weirdos around the world. Because the freaks are gonna push thier cause with freedom of expression and speech clauses.
I hopw Sl is learning what it was like when G-d made the world………………
May 9th, 2007 at 11:30 PM
When people accept that he government can regulate cartoons and out fantasies we are in serious trouble.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:31 PM
This is a thorny topic. Obviously, actual child pornography is a monstrous crime. Victimizing a child is a reprehensible violation of the order of nature, and I’m sure many feel as I do that it is not punished severely enough when it occurs.
However.
Avatars are, in a sense, costumes. Costumes facilitate roleplay. Legal adults in and out of the sexual entertainment business costume themselves as young girls (frilly “lolita” dresses, cheerleader outfits, and catholic/private school uniforms, for example) every day, all over the world. On one level, the roleplayers described in this post were creating a real-time animated depiction of sex with a minor. On another level, they were exploring their adult sexualities much as any other costumed sexual adventurer might. The interpretation LL has chosen is a worrisome reversal of my previous experience in this matter.
I have personally experienced troubling situations in which I encountered juvenile-looking avatars obviously trolling or outfitted for sex. I’ve been through the alarm associated with this, and on some occasions took pains to research whether or not this was legal, regardless of whether I thought it was appropriate. At that time, some months ago, the response I got from Lindens and Live Help alike was that while they are bound to investigate any allegations of actual child pornography on the grid, the accounts and EULAs agreed to belong to consenting legal adults performing roleplay activities, and that their freedom of expression was protected.
I learned a bit of perspective, the same perspective we hope all moralizers could benefit from when they want to censor our private lives. As a polyamorous, lifestyle BDSM player in RL, I benefit from a tolerant society every time my wife, our girlfriend, and I consummate our commitment. I would never in my life actually rape, imprison, or assault a non-consenting person, and am grateful for the freedom to discuss and engage in sexual power exchange without fear of imprisonment. By that same token, I can’t assume that these 54- and 27-year-old former residents who have been kicked out of tomorrow’s playground would ever actually victimize a child. They are outside the bounds of society’s tolerance, and in the final analysis, it’s because they wear a more convincing costume than some pom-pom-wielding stripper.
I can’t relate to what they feel or want (particularly the user behind the adult AV), but I can’t bring myself to pass judgment on them for exploring their desires in a forum that by its nature frees us from everyday restraint. They must be terrified of what’s coming next, whether their identities will somehow become public, whether they can trust the security of their personal information once it’s out of LL’s hands and provided to other authorities in the course of any investigation that ensues. My own fears are about what’s next. Is furryism “virtual bestiality?” Do the forced fantasy roleplays and “snuff beds” of SL ping the non-violence legal language that billing companies leverage against adult websites?
It seems that all it took was a little bad press for LL to cave in. Who will the news be about next time? When next time comes, will this present issue prepare us to support each other, or will we have retreated into our separate corners of the grid in our haste to distance ourselves from a taste we find repulsive?
Thank you, Linden Lab, for your legitimate efforts to protect minors, punish the exploiters of minors, and protect your residents from minors illegally accessing adult content. Really. Thank you. Age verification has been a long time coming. But please, don’t let fear of public alarmism rob you of your perspective. Because if you lose that, you’ll lose a lot of us, too.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:32 PM
so a group of people all prancing around a game rife as SL with Mature content where LL dont enforce PG areas, all want to portray themselves as children?
It is not normal behavior, and you have to ask the real reason why.
why would anyone want to spend their free time to pretend to be someone else’s child? For someone they have never met, that could in RL just want to “play with children” in SL not doing anything obvious, but behind the monitor…….
please.. can we all grow up?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:32 PM
At some point, a child-sized avatar is possible, because of the “minimum” setting that you can put a shape at. There is nothing that can be done to stop that, except putting all avatars at the exact same height. I figured that should be pointed out, as long as someone can make their av smaller, by any means, they can make something that would be child-like.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:32 PM
Good riddence i say for people like that, and with age players.. you have to realize not all of them are ‘that kind of thing’ I know quite a few who do it just for the heck of it and they are quite welcome in NCI. We’ve also had to eject and ban people because of there pure dislike of said people. Also age/ id verification is sounding a bit more like a $ grab in some ways. I understand that it is needed but nothing new will happen. If people really want to get into adult sims they prbly will register.. just sit on a camping chair till they get the money. Also I dont see how you could possibly verify a person is exactly who they say they are. Like before they could easily use anothers info to bypass this system
May 9th, 2007 at 11:34 PM
I like to be a teenager and have a av that is what I consider close to me in my late teens. Its not for sex purposes it is because I didnt have much of a childhood and would like to act out going on dates etc like all the other kids got to do.
I do wonder about the little kids out there but then again I see people getting married and have a child av in their house in sl like a rl family. Wow touchy subject.
Just keep it clean people before you mess it up for all of us and they close the whole grid. Geez!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:35 PM
Hello, I live in France and the pedophily is a real problem in my country.
I enjoy LL politics protect children of sexual activities. I think it’s the problem for all to keep the children safe from sexual, and even violence.
I don’t know how it ill be for me to justify my old age (31) because I’m french, but I approve LL completly.
Have fun in Second Life means : no pedophily, no racismus, no piracy.
Purple
May 9th, 2007 at 11:38 PM
These are very dangerous issues to tackle in any extreme….. You can do this the mindless zealot way which is appeal to the general public that has no idea what SL is about, and that age verification has nothing to do with protecting children in this virtual world… or you can approach it the way the actual community that plays this game sees it…. I understand what the issue is, and I understand what will not fix it…. I recongnize that over zealous age verification is to evade negative headlines like those that myspace, youtube, and a dozen other internet/video games have received. Many of second life’s residents are actually very web savy, and perhaps I am speaking too generally, but…. as for myself, I take this as more of a playing to the critics instead of the supporters. Yes, child porn and anything depicting should be done away with. But do it the correct way. Proactive in-game avenues to report infractions/and or offensive content, with confidence that it is actually being dealt with would be a good start. This is something the community will have to help solve and I completely disagree with the idea of age verification when implemented in the above way. I remember it was only a few months ago that second life’s databases were hacked and you had to reset every password to every account because of the security issue… do you honestly think I want to present any further personal information beyond my credit card number? Think again…. don’t infringe our rights for PR.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:39 PM
Aside from the questionable basis for prosecuting adults for depicting age play in a clearly non-real form of avatars, I have some practical concerns about the upcoming age verification policy and how it will be implemented.
At present, even if one is restricted from an adult-oriented property in SL, whether one want to see them or not, one can easily come across sexually-oriented materials on SL properties belonging to others. I’m wondering how LL plans to implement this policy.
By way of a very specific example, there are adult-oriented ads placed on several 16 sq meter lots contained within certain of my own properties. Since these lots are either not for sale or are listing asking prices far outside a reasonable range for such “nuisance” eyesores there is no reasonable chance for me to resolve or eliminate these on my own.
Will the owners of the “billboards” necessarily self-report these properties as adult?
Will neighbors have recourse to some reporting agency to look into whether they in fact violate some aspect of the evolving SL TOS?
Will neighbors who report such things, especially when the ads are borderline, be somehow protect from retaliation or vindictive “payback” by the property owners or their advertising lessees? For instance, in the case I’m thinking of, the billboards contain suggestive but not actually nude images, but they, in most cases, clearly are advertising services or locations of an obviously sexual nature?
Since my own interests and activities on SL do not require me to expose myself to the sexual side of SL, at least so far as I can tell, I have no intention of signing on for such access.
Will I then find that the contents of the locations in question are simply invisible to me? Or will I see more and more distracting and annoying “censor walls” of the sort typical now for such sites?
In the back of my mind is what this all means for viewer stability and reliability. Am I just worrying too much?
this should be interesting to say the least, particularly since I happen to own a narrow pathway now that wends its way between these various borderline-porno billboards.
Granted, in the part of the RW where I live I can also see billboards here and there advertising what seems to be services, clubs and whatnot intended to appeal to the prurient streak in many of you fellow citizens.
I’m waiting almost breathlessly to see how this new policy can be implemented and enforced, given human nature and all.
Just a few thoughts on the matter, that have percolated up as I’ve been following these developments.
Personally I wouldn’t mind NOT being able to see certain of my neighbors’ properties, decorations and so on. Thus I remain ambivalent, since I also support free speech and expression, and suspect SL may take a major hit in membership if it succeeds even halfway in delivering what seems to be promised here.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:41 PM
From http://www.ssa.gov (the social security administration):
“Your number is confidential
Your Social Security number and our records are confidential. We do not give your number to anyone, except when authorized by law. You should be careful about sharing your number with anyone who asks for it (even when you are provided with a benefit or service). ”
In other words, LL is NOT able to legally require us to provide our SS number. Be very very careful about giving out private information! Are you willing to jeapordize your own identity for the sake of ensuring that a VERY few people are banned from SL?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:41 PM
Brett it is that attitude of hush hushness that will solve nothing. Pixels moving around on the screen harm no one. Will we ban killing and torture and abuse in movies? I wish people would stand up.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:42 PM
This is unbelievably upsetting and infuriating to me. I’m sorry, but it is. Some people I know work SO hard absolutely busting their butts to ensure S/L Child avatars can live/play.have fun and most importantly BE SAFE in a happy, decent, fairytale environment, the kind they dreamed of when they were a r/l kid but for one reason or another missed out on.
Vehemently defending the child avatars, supporting Linden Lab policies on this 110% (myself included) and it takes two “avatars” like this to trash MONTHS of UNBELIEVABLE hard work establishing trust between adult s/l avatars and people who work and have worked SO hard in the GOOD child areas such as Child based areas like schools, parks, s/l adoption agencies, etc etc..
I am all for the new age policy. If you are not a child and have nothing to hide then why be so angry/defensive about the policy? How else are we supposed to get rid of this filth? I am sure 99% of adults agree that this kind of sick thing needs to be stopped and if this is the way so be it.
It’s only 1% like this that try so hard to spoil it for everyone else.
And to my former colleagues who I know will be working double time picking up the slack that WILL follow this I just want to say if you need me at all for ANYTHING to help don’t be afraid to IM me because I know what it’s going to be like (again) now.
*hugs*
If I can still help protect (blank space you know where ;)) and the kids in anyway you know I will. I hate to think of you suffering/struggling in anyway. PLEASE let me know if I can help.
OMG.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:42 PM
I’ve gotta say I agree with #18 here.
This sudden 180 is absolutely horrifying. Dozens of times in the last, LL employees themselves have come out on the community forums and publically defended ageplay as fantasy roleplay between consenting adults.
Now suddenly everyone is pretending that they had no idea any of this was happening, when ageplayers are a massive, massive part of the SL userbase.
I’m not an ageplayer. I don’t like it one bit. But this is a real, real slippery slope, especially with how little it took. And with the thousands of hours I’ve invested into this game, it’s damn terrifying.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:42 PM
Thank you LL for finally taking a firm position on the FILTH.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:42 PM
Linden Labs has gone too far. There is a big difference between simulated child “pornography” and actual child pornography. Simulated child pornography is the consensual act between two adults. (Unless the person in REAL LIFE is underage which then I would agree would be bad) In most states and countries, Bestiality is illegal. In Second Life, “Furries” dress up as animals and have simulated sex with other Furries. These are perfectly consenting adults, just like simulated child sex in Second Life so assuming that this becomes official policy, Linden Labs will have to ban people who have simulated sex with simulated animals in Second Life too. Linden Labs is handling this situation poorly. Instead of being the innovative company that it used to be it is turning more and more into an entity that is concerned only with self preservation. Quite frankly, if Linden Labs went forward with their plans to implement the ID system and this policy, it would mean that millions of legitimate, adult players would be alienated and stop playing. The reason I originally started playing was the ease with which I could enter the world. If I had to authenticate my identity, would I have joined in the first place? Hell no.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:43 PM
AND what about GORE Sims ?
they use to make slaves and orrible punishment and sex violence on
the avatars, and if you don’t accept you will bannned.
This is another point to keep under control …
Regards !
May 9th, 2007 at 11:43 PM
Some questions:
Two avatars, one that resembled an adult male and another that resembled a FURRY, engaged in depicted sexual conduct.
Is that ZOOPHILY ?
Two avatars, one that resembled an adult male and another that resembled a SLAVE, engaged in depicted sexual conduct.
Is that SLAVERY ?
If you accept that RESEMBLANCE of an avatar determines ANY RL identity…you bought yourself a pretty nice war to fight, Linden Labs.
or am i too naive?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:46 PM
I am a legal adult. I will be undergoing verification, albeit grudgingly. I play a child avatar. I do not engage in sexual activity.
Why is there so much call for child avatars to be banned altogether? I really do not understand this line of reasoning. Saying “Tthere is NO reason to depict yourself as a child in Second Life. NONE.” is an interesting attitude… By that logic, there is NO reason to depict yourself as part-animal too! (which I also do sometimes, by the way)…
I DO understand why I want to be a child. Childhood was one of the best moments of my life. If I could choose to live as anyone, why would I not choose to live as an innocent child?
Just wanted to get my word in edgewise before the whole “get rid of child avatars” thing starts up again. If they do get rid of them, I would seriously consider leaving, since my way to escape from the trouble-filled world that adults live in will be taken from me.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:47 PM
SL is a fatastic experience, I am a child av, I have a sl familly don’t judge all the little avs bassed on 2 persons stupidity.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:47 PM
Some thoughts..
While I do not agree with the submission of extremely sensitive data such as Social Security numbers, I do agree with Linden Lab’s steps in confirming the ages of its users. It is currently the best option on the table, lest the SL client become severely limited.
Second Life is a global internet service and laws regarding the depiction of child pornography, real or virtual, vary with every country. In some countries, the possession of pornographic material that depicts children using a medium such as cartoons is illegal. Legally, Linden Labs has to protect their assets (hah) by at least stating a policy against it. Allowing this material to flourish or be distributed on their servers will likely bring the end of the service. Regulation is simply impossible considering the scope of the service, which is why it is up to end users to report blatant misuse of the service.
“Age players” are more than likely adults. Whether they suffer from some sort of psychological disorder is anyone’s guess. There are grey areas on what constitutes a child avatar, but there is no question regarding what is sexual and what is not.
Points that should be addressed:
Since Second Life is a virtual medium and there are no shortages of people with extensive photo manipulation skills, what stops someone from filing false abuse reports using manipulated materials?
What protection guarantees are there on data submitted to Linden Labs, or it’s age verification service? The aqcuisition of thousands of SL users Social Security numbers will make the age verification service a lucrative target for criminals. A less invasive form of verifiation is needed.
The internet is serious business.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:48 PM
OMG so that real!. See many said this was going to happen and it did! Fianlly LLabs has common sence to stop this mess! Took love a year but finally LLabs is not thinking with their backside and more.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Might it be appropriate for LL to contact not just the German authorities but also the appropriate local and American national authorities regarding these images, since LL is storing the the apparent images of minors involved in sexual activity on it’s servers in California (and perhaps Dallas)?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:51 PM
@12 who cares if you think it’s valid or not. What gives you the right to say other people can’t use child avs in innocent ways?
I think if we’re going to go that far, it’s time to clean up da grid, ban weapons, sex related everything, and anything that a repressed paranoid puritan could construe as being malicious on some level.
It’d be easy, just use the Coolkarma test… if he doesn’t approve and think it’s normal behavior, then don’t allow it.
I’m SL would be a better place and even more users would come in.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:51 PM
I agree with #21, but it goes even further, I did not have much of a childhood at all, alcoholic parents, no friends, constantly beaten up etc. So yes, I do play a child av on SL, i have SL parents, and a large SL family. Never has there been any thought of any sexual encounter what so ever with a child av, but it is a good vent to somewhat experience a happy childhood, and its just simple things, like going shopping, and playing in a playground. None of those activities are illegal, and should not be brought down. Its those select few that decide to do sick things in a child av that ruins it for those who are completely innocent. I applaud LL for their actions in this case, but banning child avs is not the answer, if that were to happen, then something else would get picked out, then after that is banned, something else will get picked out and it will keep on going… LL needs to find a system to weed out the bad apples, so that they cannot ruin it for everyone else
May 9th, 2007 at 11:51 PM
This better not turn into a ban every child/cub AV in game. I have NO interest in engaging in virtual pedophilia, yet I have a kit fox AV I use off and on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_baby
May 9th, 2007 at 11:52 PM
in the past LL has indicated that their position was that this behavior could not be mistaken for child porn, and noone could mistake avitars for real people. once you begin banning people because someone RL takes offense to their private virtual behavior, this becomes RL2 not SL. if I do not speak out for someone elses “extreme” virtual behavior, how long will it be before I am banned for my behavior. - LL please grow a backbone!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:52 PM
Does this mean LL will ban the age play areas? These areas only exist for “depictions of child pornography within Second Life” which apparently LL doesn’t tolerate. Or do they?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:55 PM
The german media need to chill out and stop getting all emo. The pedophiles got reported and banned. So everyone in secondlife can get back to their second lives and not try to force things. It does not mean that everyone on secondlife has child sex.
I AGREED to the TOS and because i am 18 i should get to move around and not be restricted because someone is a noob. If i am blamed for something that some noob did then second life isn’t worth using.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:55 PM
Well done, Linden. Very well done.
Bien hecho, Linde. Muy bien hecho.
+ + + + + + + + + +
Coolkama Says:
2. ACTUALLY ENFORCE PG areas. when i choose a PG area to live, it is not just for cheap land. it is so if my child walks past, they will not see anything inapropiate. however if i report adult avertising from a well known advertister in a PG plot, you always report that it has been “resolved” but still they are there.
A great and absolutely necessary idea.
Una gran y absolutamente necesaria idea.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Why are you smashing up my posts?
I AGREED to the TOS and because i am 18 i should get to move around and not be restricted because someone is a noob. If i am blamed for something that some noob did then second life isn’t worth using.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:56 PM
I agree the reporter may have some problems here in the states since the reporter did transmit child pornography over the internet to the United States. And German reporters are not protected under US Law as I recall. Maybe we will be courteous and civil about it. I would.
Usagi do you remember the age play business that resulted in hundreds of angry residents to file abuse reports? that got cleaned out fast.
btw i don’t respond to forum trolls trying to pick a fight by expressing intolerance. Intolerance is not tolerated in SL nor by me.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:56 PM
IT’S ABOUT TIME!
I’m so sick and tired of this debate going back and forth over “it’s really an adult” vs “it’s still a child representation”.
I’m glad LL has finally put on a big steel-toe boot and did some kicking. The bottom line is it doesn’t matter whether it’s an adult or not, it’s bad for the environment…period.
No one said you can’t have a child avatar or wear one, that policy would undermine the spirit of the game. The conduct with said avatar is a totally different story.
Thank you LL.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:59 PM
I will not accept the US government telling me that art is crime. I do not give a damn if it is child avatars having sex or not.
May 9th, 2007 at 11:59 PM
Um, it was only last September that SL databases were hacked and hackers may have been able to access username and password information illegally.
In light of this, and given the fact that almost all of SLs potential customer base views SL as a “game”, it seems like a serious risk and over-reach to ask for SSNs etc… I would likely quit SL and forget about Linden Labs forever… Potential customers are likely to say, “huh, this game wants my SSN and my credit card? no way, not for a game…” Talk about Linden Labs sabotaging themselves.
Everybody hates these scumbags, so prosecute them fully. Get rid of the child porn, the age play, the illegal stuff. Take legal recourse. Encourage people to report questionable material. Require CC age verification and in cases that people are reported as reputably under-age then and only then require the extras.
Please don’t kill SL with stupid decisions and over-reaching verification requirements. You are insane if you think people will play SL if they have to give up SSNs, DL#s and other highly sensitive personal informaiton.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:00 AM
Perhaps one of the guide lines to follow is what the Supreme Court has
ruled in reguarding hand drawn illustrations of sexual activity, as being
NOT porn. Their reasoning was that the laws were meant to protect
real people, and not be used for copy right enforcements.
Drawings and Animations in SL are not real people, and the two adults
involved in their role playing were not children.
Trying to appease the german goverment seems ironic.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:01 AM
I have wondered how long it would take before someone noticed, I find it discusting that grown adults use children AV’s & then have sex wiht an adult AV… YES SEX…. All kid’s av’s should be removed & banned. & those associated wiht them should also be banned from SL, & maybe even taken further in regards to there conduct
May 10th, 2007 at 12:01 AM
Este es un tema controvertido.
En primer lugar indicar que tambien tengo tolerancia cero con la pornografia infantil, pero, de ahí a expulsar a dos adultos por tener esa FANTASIA, es el colmo. Si me disfrazo de pulpo y mantengo relacciones sexuales con mi novio… ¿eso es zoofilia? Creo que que hay que tener un poco de sentido comun… y no dejar que esta nueva moda conservadora vaya viendo delitos donde no los hay.
Esto se está convirtiendo en una caza de brujas. ¿donde estaban estos 2 avatares teniendo relacciones sexuales? ¿en una zona publica? ¿o en la intimidad de su casa? ¿Se ha violado o no el derecho a la intimidad de estas personas?
Logicamente, si uno de los dos, ademas, tuviera imagenes de pornografia infantil en su inventario pues entonces veria bien el castigo pero ¿y si no? Si Linden ha tomado las medidas legales oportunas para que todos en SL seamos mayores de edad, debo ser muy tonta pero no veo delito. ¿y si en lugar de ser sexo entre una avatar con forma de adulto y otro avarta con forma de niño, hubiese sido ente adulto y anciano? ESTAMOS HABLANDO DE FANTASIAS. Y el banear a alguien de SL por sus fantasias me parece deleznable, por mucha prensa alemana que intervenga.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:03 AM
If I do not the age verification check. Will I still be allowed to have sex in SL. Or will I be reported to the authorities?
May 10th, 2007 at 12:05 AM
Ok so I am a child avie in SL. I do not agree with any sexual acts between child avies or RL children at all. Ther eare more child avies against it than for.
Groups like Roleplayerz need to be banned ASAP. But LL does not act on the abuse reports.
You cannot target all children avies for the few bad ones. Respect for all players must be maintained in a world which was built on the foundation of childs play. Imagination - Keep that which many loose.
I have worked close with many people including the lindens at times. And I do agree with the stance LL is taking.
Child avies are a users choice for many reasons, for some it is escaping SL’s mature red light district areas, having fun… enjoying life.
Yes PEOPLE CHOOSE TO GET AWAY FROM THEM. There is more to SL that this disgusting world the new age users have created. Unlike those who have been in SL since beta including close friends of mine. Obvious change in SL has taken place. Much for the worse and not for the better.
Age verification is needed to ensure the safety of minors wondering into SL.
The child avie community has existed in SL since the beta. The child avie community is as old as the game itself. You should all think before targeting it. And think about the reasons.
For myself personally, being a victim of many cruel acts upon myself as a child. I would NEVER want to relive them. NEVER EVER. and anyone who says that I do would make cry. I have not had a single year up till I was 13 that something evil was done to me, my mind… my soul, body.
You are all cruel, cruel people. Who should think before acting your giant hate towards probably one of the most PG oriented communities in SL.
I would not count this evil community that does these sick acts as the child avie community I know, but a darker community so dark it makes users blind to just where it is, leaving the innocent for target practice.
Search the group Roleplayerz, start from there. Leave the innocent child avie community to continue its strictly PG oriented play.
Perhaps one of the only PG Oriented communities in SL left anyway.
What have you all done to this Utopia.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:06 AM
As that report reads, two adults were involved in some sort of consenting roleplay. Because one of the avatars had a particular type of appearance those adults were banned; that appearance was offensive. It’s assumed the act portrayed was illegal had it taken place in real life. Except in real life both are adults and consequently able to give mutual consent. Face it, the real reason for the reaction is that one such person just might - might - be a child molester, so pretty much any reaction is regarded as “just”.
So where is the reaction to the people whose avatars /might/ point to their being murderers or rapists (or both}, or jihardists, or christian fascists for that matter? Heavens! There could even be Republicans in here somewhere!
The hypocrisy in these things is breathtaking.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:07 AM
Consenting adults did this illegal act. This just proves that age verification does nothing, and as stated is being handed to a company with a poor record. This topic is completely unrelated to age verification presented in this manner and accomplishes nothing.
Credit card information should be plenty as well as digitally signing a digital signature stating you are of age. I will not nor would expect anyone to divulge their social security number, drivers license, or passport information to play a game, none the less forward that information to a third party for data mining purposes.
Investment large or small I would rather quit.
Age verification at this point solves nothing.
Please describe how the above scenario would have been avoided had age verification already been implemented!
May 10th, 2007 at 12:08 AM
Aside from this current issue, history is filled with examples of societies eliminating “undesirables”, then moving on to the next undesirables. Who is next, gays? demons/angels? non-human? beasts/furries (as was pointed out previously)? How about people who create AVs that are of the opposite sex? Are they SL transsexuals now?
What about other “RL illegal” conduct? Should we start considering anyone who “kills” as a murderer? Most US states have laws against prostitution, do we do away with the SL escort services?
Who is tomorrow’s target?
At what point does SL simply become so like RL that it’s very reason for being is nullified? Why not just call it Digital RL. Then we can have wars and poverty and goverments and everything! Oh wait, we ALREADY HAVE THAT!
Beware people who think they know what’s best for everyone…
May 10th, 2007 at 12:11 AM
@Stephen Northport - Very well said. I couldn’t agree with you more.
I personally don’t get the appeal of that kind of thing but I also don’t believe that a resident’s in-world behavior should be judged as okay or not depending on how they’ve decorated their av. The puppetmasters were both consenting adults.
As for the child pornography, yes absolutely that should be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest, as an actual crime was committed.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:12 AM
in reguards to the age verification to prove we are adults, why are credit cards accepted as proof to enter the world but not accepted as proof once we are in. We have a double standard here. If credit cards are not proof then no one should be allowed in the adult grid without more surrendering more personal information. It can’t be both ways.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:13 AM
Translated for those of us that don’t habla Espanol…
——————————-
#31 - lilunai Laurasia Says:
This is a controversial topic.
First of all to indicate that also I have tolerance zero with the infantile pornography, but, hence to expelling two adults for having this FANTASY, it is the height. If I disguise myself as octopus and support relacciones sexual with my fiancé …: is that zoofilia? I believe that that it is necessary to have a little of common sense … and not to leave that this new conservative fashion sees crimes where they are not.
Logically, if one of the two, also, had images of infantile pornography in his inventory since then he would see well the punishment but: and if not? If They Adjoin it has taken the legal opportune measures so that we all in SL are major of age, I must be very dumb but I do not see crime. and if instead of being a sex between an avatar with form of adult and other avarta with form of child, it had been an adult and aged entity? WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT FANTASIES. And the banear for his fantasies seems fragile to someone of SL, for great German press that intervenes.
——————————
End Translation of post 31
May 10th, 2007 at 12:13 AM
Omni: There’s no reason for LL to store that information in their database. They’d only store the fact that you were age verified.
That doesn’t mean that someone couldn’t hack the verification company though… That happens almost daily with government systems. So even there, the risk isn’t greatly higher.
Personally I’m all for Age Verification and hope that everyone in Second Life bans non age verified from their lands just as I ban No Payment Info people now