Swift boating of Obama

How can they swift-boat him? He never served.

swiftboating now means sleazeball repugnazie lies about any candidate.

Well the first is pimping his own book of BS, while the other is
simply toiling for that right wing rag, The NY Times. Liberal media
my ass.

Odd that it came to mean that as that's not what happened to Kerry.

*shrug*

Idiot.

Oh. Politics.

mario in victoria
--
last man tossing

de87-4404-912...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

What goes around comes around:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007Swift_boat_vets_attack_John_McCains_0116.html

"mario in victoria" <mari...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iIOmk.5336$nu6.312@edtnps83...

I think we should just let computers run the country.

*shrug*

yeah it was.

>*shrug*

You're right, the Swift Boat attacks were far worse, they were borderline
treasonous actions. How dare someone, for the sheer sake of politics,
demean and mock the service of someone who put his life on the line to
defend our country? And for what? For a boost in the polls? Everyone who
funded and participated in the "Swift Boat" smear campaign, everyone that
was willing to spit on the service of a decorated and wounded combat veteran
in a time of war are virtual traitors to the US and should disgust every
true American.

The sacrifice that our soldiers make, and the unequivocal gratitude we owe
them, transcends politics. Everybody who participated in or supported the
"Swift Boat" attacks should be deeply, deeply ashamed.

Idiot.

===

Indeed.

Anyone who thinks that the NY Times is a "right wing rag"
is a complete moron.

We should never demean the service of our troops. I believe this now
and I believed it when they returned home from Vietnam when the left
wing of this country spat on them and called them 'baby killers'.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

except that never happened

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-12.htm

Never, to anyone? Have another ray.

--
Glen

just oft repeted urban myths./

You're full of shit Ray.

Who can say it never happened --- that no Vietnam returning soldier
was spat on and called a baby killer? It does not matter if it
happened a few times in terms of a condemnation of "the Left" (or the
"Right" for that matter --- historically, the Right is more likely
than the left to accuse people of being baby killers). We do know that
those making the claim have been unsuccessful in proving the claim.

There were lots of people upset at the war in vietnam and were not as
respectful as they should have been to returning soldiers. No one
doubts that. But a few isolated incidents by people of indefinite
political orientation does not justify the claim that the "left wing
of this country spat on them and called them 'baby killers'." That
claim is obviously false and in no way is redeemed by showing a few
isolated cases of such stuff. Nor would the poor treatment of
returning soldiers in those isolated cases be justified by evidence
that a few soldiers did in fact kill some babies (I'm making no
allegations).

I think the truthfulness, or lack thereof, of the Swiftboat attackers
of Kerry has been settled for the most part, and I'm not getting into
that discusion, which, for me, is a closed topic. I was only noting
that the guy who wrote the swiftboat book claimed not to have any
interest in politics, and now we see him writing an attack book (of
whatever merit) on Obama.

the way it is currently defined is exactly what happened to Goldwater
with his "finger on the Red Button" fear-mongering.

ah well - there are so many instances of bad behavior on both sides
of the aisle.

here's the main problem though:

the Republican Party thoughout my whole life has always been about
allowing big business to maximize their profit regardless of what this
might have meant in terms of systemic disadvantages to the huge
amount of the rest of us who werent as well situated. they say other
things, but, the bottom line is the bottom line.

the Democratic Party has always been an assemblage if weakly spined
agents of the same cause, only they were too stupid to always prevent
good stuff they accidentally came up with from actually making it
through the wicked gauntlet of subcommitee review and eventual passage
into law. then they wave their little flags hooray.

my choice: the Party of the Mean People or the Party of the Dumb
People
i take Dumb everytime, because i KNOW i'll never get anything but
shit from the Mean.

i'll say it here and now, loud and clear:

the interests of Big Business ARE NOT the Interests of This Country.
never have been, and never will.

the Republicans in powerful places in their party have often been
able to get their way regardless of what might come out of any liberal
congress in the past. they subvert the intent of the law with little
clauses that make sure they still make their money - hey, it's all
about money. surprise surprise. they use lightning rod issues like
fundamental religious intolerance, racism, abortion .... what ever
they can find, to drive the population apart. it has worked in the
past and continues to work today. speak "no Child Left Behind" but
keep people unenlightened and they will continue to be able to drive
people apart. Abe Lincoln is rolling over in his grave. it is a
colossal shame what has happened to his party. Abe Lincoln, for
chrissakes.

the Democrats in powerful places in their party do pretty much the
same thing, but to a much lesser scale, behind the doors. this is
because they have to keep the "tent" happy - this is the assemblage of
all manner of poor people's groups, disantvantaged, downtrodden,
chronically ill, and of course the myriad different racial and ethnic
minorities. these groups arent always friendly with each other, and
so you have bickering.....and you have to recurrent theme of the
Democrats - trying to unite everyone under their tent. they need to
keep every one in the "tent" or the vicious Republicans destroy the
country.

Republicans have always had writers who are talented at making the
Democratic Party look STOOOOPID. They are always very good at being
Mean People. they dupe tons of marginal mentalities, like people who
are so broken inside they have to hide behind a screen alias that is,
quite frankly, very gross and disgusting. these are the kind of
exemplary folk they will attract. for example, here's to hoping that
OFP continues to attack Obama because every time he does it, we see
his screen name with the attack. so go have at it, OFP - do your
Swift-Boating here and there and everywhere, but always be sure to
sign your name O'Neil's Faggy Prostate.

the Democrats are mostly inept because they have to run around trying
to be nice to everyone, as i said. so show me an honest politician? -
THERE ARENT ANY. there arent any because you cannot be elected
without being dishonest. show me nice people in congress - and i
can. Orrin Hatch. A Republican. There are some "nice" features in
the Republican party about kindness and responsibility. It is
entirely too bad that they are overshadowed by Big Business. Taken
all together, this is why Massachusetts will continue to reelect
Edward Moore Kennedy. there has been no one in the congressional
history of the United States who has been at the front line and
prevented the End of The Goodness Of This Country As We Know It In
Favor Of Billions Of Dollars To the Fat Cats more than Ted. i'm sorry
- you should go down the list of bills he has co-sponsered or
authored. that is why, regardless of his buffoonery with drinking and
the bridge, he will be reelected as long as he runs. Until the
Republican Party falls in line or withers away like the dead leaves it
is, the Democratic Party must remain weakly bound together in it's
loose alliance of all kinds of different interests. When the
Republicans ever do go away, then the Democratic party will finally be
able to split up into it's conservative, middle of the road, liberal
and even those dastardly socialist factions and we might have real
choices when the elections come around. but i'm not holding my
breath.

libertarians? come on - there's more than 500 people on the planet.
communists? come on - that always devolves into dictatorships.
ralph nader? dont make me laugh. you've got to have a visibly SANE
spokeperson at the head of your political movement.

but some day there may come a time when we can get past a 2-party
system.

Mean People Suck. Simple as that.

these Mean People Suck even more than the Yankees.
but, yes, in the context of what this post is about,

The Yankees Suck.

actually, Mean People - underneath - are really just Frightened
People who arent equipped to get past their own upbringings and always
latch on to the easy way out in dealing with events that blow their
minds - they just say "screw 'em". if it was good enough for pontius
pilate then it's good enough for me.

i know this all sounds stupid & stereotyped & mean-spirited, but i
dont care.
just had to say it. see song at end for who i am.

the Sun came out! whooohoo!
we're still in orbit!

- nate, a socialist when it comes to partying

Mean Talkin Blues - Woody Guthrie

I'm the meanest man, i never had a brain
All i scatter is aches and pains
I'm carbolic acid an' a poison face
An' i stand flatfooted in favor of crime & disgrace
If i ever done a good deed, i'm sorry of it

I'm mean in the east an' mean in the west
An' mean to the people that i like the best
I go around a-causin' lotta accidents
An' i push folks down & i cause trainwrecks
I'm a big disaster just goin' somewhere's to happen
I'm an organized famine studyin how i can be a little bit meaner
I's still a whole lot too good to suit myself - just mean

I ride around on the subway trains
Laughin at the tight shoes doin ya pain
An' i laugh when the car shakes from side to side
i laugh my loudest when other people cry
Caint help it. i was born good, i guess, just like you or anybody
else
But then i...just turned off mean

I hate everybody't dont think like me
An' I'd rather see ya dead than to ever see ya free
Rather see ya starve than see ya at work
An' i'm reading all the books i can to learn how to hurt
Deal ya misery, spread diseases
Keep ya without no vote, keep ya without no union

Well, i hurt when i see ya gettin along so well
I'd ten times rather see ya in the fires of hell
I caint stand to fix- see ya there all fixed up in that house so nice
I'd rather keep ya in that rotten hole with bugs & the lice
An' the roaches an' the ternamites an' the sandfleas an' the taterbugs
An the grubworms an' the stingeries an' the vinagerones an' the
trasslers,
The spiders, childs of the earth, & the tics & the bloflies
These is all of my little angels goin around
Havin to do the best parts of my meanness....an' mosquiters

Well, i used to be a pretty fairly nice feller
Til i turned a scab & then i turned off yeller
Fought every union with teeth & toenail
An' i sprouted a 6-inch stinger right in the middle of the tail
An' i growed horns - then i cut 'em off - i wanted to fool ya
I hated union everywhere cuz God likes unions & an' i hate God

Well if i can get the fat to hatin' the lean
That'd tickle me more than anything i've seen
Then get the colors to fightin' one another
An' friend against friend, an' brother & sister against brother
That'll be just it, everybodies brains a-boilin' in turpentine
An' their teeth fallin out all up an' down the streets, that'll just
suit me fine
Cuz i hate everything 'at's union an' i hate everything 'at's
organized
An' i hate everything 'at's planned, an' i love ta hate & i hate ta
love
I'm mean....i'm just mean.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

no, you are.

...good comeback. Have you been saving that since third grade?

The politics aside, to say it *never* happened is a bold faced lie.

Exaggerated, sure, no doubt. I'll not argue that.

It did happen though.

--
Glen

>
>Many believe this is leftist propaganda meant to re-write history. They'd
>like you to believe that returning soldiers were always treated with the
>utmost respect. Certainly things are blown out of proportion over the
>years but the fact researches supposedly can't find news articles is not
>proof it never happened. It's just proof it wasn't reported upon. That
>would have to be a pretty slow news day for them to be writing articles
>about every soldier's return home.

Why do you say this stuff? When someone says that it was not common
for soldiers to be spat at and called baby killers, that person is NOT
saying that returning soldiers were always treated with utmost
respect. In fact, most were ignored and their service for their
country in an unfortunate war was not recognized the way prior service
was recognized. No one can deny that reality.

There are some documented cases of poor treatment of returning
soldiers --- name calling, for example. A lot of the Vietnam protests
were by college kids, who are not always the most well-behaved group
in the country, especially when lubricated. Stuff happens. No
policical leaders of either major party, however, thought that there
was a political advantage to be gained by insulting the returning
soldiers. The Republicans did not do it to the returning soldiers from
what Bob Dole called the "Democrat Wars," (Korea and WW II) and the
Democrats did not do it to soldiers returning from the Republicans war
in Iraq and Grenada (the Vietnam war was a political mongrel).

But the favorite charge of some people on the right --- that the
normal treatment of returning Vietnam soldiers was being spat upon and
called baby killers --- is unsupported by the evidence. Indeed, no one
has been able to document even a single case of such treatment, and
not for a failure to try. True, not prooof it never happened, but
strong evidence it was at least exceedingly uncommon. I'm pretty
confident my hometown paper would have reported it if it had occurred
to a soldier returning home after the war.

So, it is really unfortunate that this charge gets repeated, and more
unfortunate that the false charge is attributed to particular
political groups (the Left) or particular political party (the
Democrats). That attribution makes the chage not about respect for
soldiers but about winning political points. And no one is "rewriting
history" when they attempt to correct the false charges.

We have quite a few viet vets on this ng. I don't recall any of them
complaining about getting spit upon and called a bady killer by
anyone.

It (spitting at returning soldiers and calling them baby killers) may
have hapened. I've seen the claim and the call for evidence, and I've
not seen the evidence. So I cannot say if happened --- only that it
might have happened. I also cannot say (and did not say) it never
happened.

the link i posted was to an article by a man who tried to chase down a
verifiable incident. all he found was second and third hand stories. "it
didn't happen to me but i heard...." kind of stuff.

post one actual incident. its a story you wingnuts tell. that's all
especially the "people lined up at airports"
troops returned to military bases not civilian airports.

Did others go through the aforementioned? It's very likely although as a
career solder I can't remember anyone telling me about their personal
experiences concerning these matters. Now I did witness anti-war
gatherings where placards were carried around some calling soldiers
"baby killers" etc. and a lot of generic name calling took place.

Bottom line is that there were no homecoming parades and the Viet vet
was not thought of as Sgt York or Audie Murphy, For that matter neither
were the Korean vets. We both fought in unpopular wars that the general
public were not in agreement with and wanted to forget. This Iraq fiasco
is much the same except the general public has separated the individual
soldier from the fiasco. Yes you can support the troops without being in
agreement with the conflict.

"Sweet Lou"

The Swifties were lying then and this one is lying now. Why wouldn't he?
In his mind it worked then and there was no price to pay. And in the Kerry
case, the man was a fellow vet. Clearly these clowns have no
conscience...no sense of right or wrong...every means is justified to them
if it furthers their "cause". Whatever that is. Even war atrocities
probably...same mindset.

Kerry didn't/doesn't think that.

Could you repeat that?

Sounds just like The Obamasiah!

Yes, I understand. Classic urban legion material.

Nice post.

Wow, that was a helluva post.
Thanks for the read.
I disagree with much of what you said about the Democrats, but you
hit the nail right on the head with the Republicans...and with Ted.

>> .. On Aug 7, 9:24 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com>

Vast overgenerlization. There was some contempt for some of them for
propagating a war everybody wanted out of. That was wrong to do, but the
whole calling them 'baby killers' thing has become like urban legend:
almost nobody had it happen to them, but to a third party nobody ever
meets.

--
-------
I either Get what I want or I change my mind. - Anonymous

Says you.

in WWI and WWII soldiers came home in mass , in Vietnam they can back in
small groups.
inWWI and WWII national survival was at stake and we won completely. neither
was the case in vietnam
and what parades did the korean war vets ever get?

korea wasn't an upopular war. it just never had the big victory tht WWI ns
WWII did,
although as it was the commies who attacked and when the shooting ended the
commies had failed completely

Says you.
--------------------------------------------------

refute his claim then, racist pig

I wonder if your treatment would have been the same, had you come home in
'73 - '75...?

In other words, in '68 the leftist cowards had not yet stirred up the pot
as much as they would later on.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Good description of Obama's way running a campaign.

> Anyone who thinks that the NY Times is a "right wing rag" is a complete
> moron.

It's comical, sometimes, how twisted up these leftist cowards (like
"Dano") really are. How someone can actually think that way is just
beyond comprehension.

They'll find out pretty soon that their boy is all talk and nothing else,
when he gets his ass whipped in November.

The more he uses his wife in the campaign the easier it will be. The
bimbo spoke in Zanesville, Ohio recently. It is a textbook rustbelt
city. Much higher than the national average in unemployment; much
lower in per capita income. A dwindling and aging population. Mrs. O
made $300,000 a year on her job before she quit to "help" her husband.
He makes $200,000 as a Senator. He got alot more than that for his 2
books. So what does she say to show a connection with the struggling
folks in Zanesville? She whines about the cost of repaying her student
loans she used to attend Princeton. Then as a coup de grace (sp) she
tells the sad story of how much money it cost for her children's piano
and dance lessions. I'm not making this up even though it reads like a
skit from Saturday Night Live. I'm sure there were a lot of listeners
with mouths agape. How can anyone possibly be that unsensitive and out
of touch? Idiot. I'm surprised she didn't whine about the rising cost
of nannys and cavier.

3 Aug 72 the 3rd Bn of the 21st Inf left Nam which was the last of the
ground forces left in country.So we were basically done with the
conflict. The next month we turned over the gigantic depot at Long Binh
to the So.Viets. Bottom line 72 the US involment in the "war" was over.
So in 73 to 75 there was damn little if any anti-war/military shit going
as the US direct involment ended in Sep 72.Now during that time frame
there was a helluva lot of justified anti-Nixon protests.

As I said in my post I was a career military type, 25 yrs, I retired in
85 so I was stationed in various places both in and outside the US for
another 17 years upon my return from Nam and at no time was I harassed.
Yes I was in the US during the 73-75 time.

Were others taunted and humiliated I'm sure a number were but nobody I
was associated with ever relayed any such tales to me.No doubt some
military types were subjected to this but IMO they were in the minority
and the entire thing was over blown. The majority of the populace had
tired of the conflict and had turned against the war but like the
majority of todays good people they respected the men and women in
uniform.

"Sweet Lou"

I have to agree. I flew into McCord AFB near Seattle on my return.
Later I was bussed to Sea-Tac and flew home on PSA. Nobody ever said a
bad word to me. Also, although I never thought about it at the time,
nobody said a good word to me either. After I got home it was 38 days
before I reported to Ft. BenninG, GA. Once again I received no
comments. However as a result of a very successful "Let my Hair Grow"
effort before I left Nam I didn't look like a soldier.

Funny thing. When I got to Benning I went to the arrival area. (I'm
sure it had some military name, but I don't remember). There was some
young 2nd Lt. at the desk. It had now been over 2 months since I has a
haircut other than a tiny trim before I left my unit. I had a lot of
hair. The Lt. took one look at me and started stuttering and shouting
about my hair. He said "You can't sign in until you get your hair cut"
rather loudly. Bad move by the young guy. I knew the rules and figured
I would give him a refresher course in front of his staff. So I took
out some paper and a pen, looked at his name tag, and said "Could you
spell you name, sir? He asked why I wanted to do that. I told him
since he wouldn't let me sign in, I would go home. Eventually when
contacted I needed to be able to say who it was that refused to let me
report. I was NOT under their control or orders until after I signed
in to the unit unless I refused to do so. After a long pause he said
to go ahead and sign in. I did. Then he immediately yelled "Now go get
you god-dammed hair cut." I said "Yes, sir" and I did. I just wanted
to jerk his chain and I did.

As far as whether or not others were badly mistreated, I believe some
were. I recall a picture in the paper. I believe it was taken in SF.
Soldiers were returning and there were lots of protesters shouting and
carrying signs. They were not friendly signs. The caption said police
had to clear a path. I don't recall anything about spitting, but if
your saw the crowd, it wouldn't be hard to imagine one or two of them
might have done something like that.

When I see a soldier in uniform nowadays I thank them for their
service.That ought to be non-political enough for everybody to do. It
makes them feel good and it costs you only a few seconds. Try it.

>news:2fe0aa88-4dee-44a6-b207-

Except when the congress wants to give them GI benefits equal
to what they got in world war 2 and the white house/McCain
opppse it.

Or when we have a president who refuses to give the troops
armour.

Sure you can.....deny it all.

Just say you never really destroyed a generation of students by force
busing....

Just say you never really used racial quotas to fill jobs.....

Just say you haven't screwed up public school systems all over the
country....

Just say the prevelance of drug abuse and teenage pregnancy wasn't a
by product of liberal philosphy....

....it was all a dream just like when that Bobby Ewing came back in
'Dallas'.

Yours is a philosophy that will never hold anyone else accountable so
why would you hold yourself so.

This is good though because it was the inability to admit their
policies actually did more harm than good that brought the liberals
down in the eighties.....and its how it will happen again.

Listen to YOUR guy...

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/

How about comparing wives? If you find THAT is important...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/drugs/

"I believe she wore red that day. She granted semi-exclusive interviews to
one TV station and three daily newspaper reporters in Arizona, tearfully
recalling her addiction, which came about after painful back and knee
problems and was exacerbated by the stress of the Keating Five banking
scandal that had ensnared her husband. To make matters worse, McCain
admitted, she had stolen the drugs from the American Voluntary Medical Team,
her own charity, and had been investigated by the Drug Enforcement
Administration.

"The local press cooed over her hard-luck story. One of the four journalists
spoon-fed the story -- Doug McEachern, then a reporter for Tribune
Newspapers, now a columnist with the Arizona Republic (and, it must be
added, normally much more acerbic) -- wrote this rather typical lead:

"She was blonde and beautiful. A rich man's daughter who became a
politically powerful man's wife. She had it all, including an insidious
addiction to drugs that sapped the beauty from her life like a spider on a
butterfly."

"What McEachern and the others didn't know was that, far from being a
simple, honest admission designed to clear her conscience and help other
addicts, Cindy McCain's storytelling had been orchestrated by Jay Smith,
then John McCain's Washington campaign media advisor. And it was intended to
divert attention from a different story, a story that was getting quite
messy.

"I know, because I had been working on that story for months at Phoenix New
Times. I had finally tracked down the public records that confirmed Cindy
McCain's addiction and much more, and the McCains knew I was about to get
them. Cindy's tale was released on the day the records were made public.

"But the story I was pursuing was not so much about Cindy McCain's
unfortunate addiction. It was much more about her efforts to keep that story
from coming to light, and the possible manipulation of the criminal justice
system by her husband and his cohorts. The irony is that Cindy's secret
would have stayed secret if John McCain's heavy-hitting lawyer, John Dowd
(of D.C.'s Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld; his most recent claim to fame
was serving as co-counsel for fellow partner Vernon Jordan during
impeachment) hadn't heavy-handedly pulled out all the stops to protect the
McCain family.

"Dowd tried to get back at the man on Cindy McCain's staff, Tom Gosinski,
who had blown the whistle on her drug pilfering to the DEA. But in the
course of trying to get local law enforcement officials to investigate
Gosinski -- Dowd and the McCains considered him an extortionist; others
might call him a whistleblower -- Dowd set in motion a process that would
eventually bring the whole sordid story to light. When that maneuver
backfired, the McCain media machine went into overdrive to spin the story.

"It's a story of unintended consequences. It's also a story of power
politics and media manipulation that's very un-McCain-like -- if you believe
his national media hagiography."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3295472.ece

"A former Arizona rodeo beauty queen and daughter of a millionaire Phoenix
businessman, Cindy McCain was 25 when she met her future husband at a
cocktail party in Hawaii. John McCain was a 43-year-old naval liaison
officer travelling with a congressional delegation, his sights already set
on a political career.

"He was also still married to his first wife Carol, although the couple had
recently separated. Carol later attributed the breakdown of the marriage to
"John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again". McCain fell like a brick for
Cindy, who was the heir to a brewery distribution business worth millions.
For several years afterwards the McCains endured Washington gossip that he
had dumped his first wife - who had been crippled in a car accident - in
favour of a trophy bride to enhance his political ambitions."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you REALLY wish to go down this road? We certainly can...even though
Obama himself is too much of a gentleman. I just hope THAT isn't his fatal
flaw...not being willing to get down in the mud like the pigs on the other
side.

Meanwhile...life goes on...McCain the straight shooter (last heard damning
Obama for being a "job killing machine") just may have cost 10,000 jobs in
Ohio.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

As one who protested that war (and NOT the soldiers fighting it) I'd like to
remind you that this crap went both ways. I would never justify the
mistreatment of the returning troops and neither did anyone I knew. There
were some real a-holes...on both sides of this very divisive issue. I can't
believe this rages on decades later. Some (including apparently you and the
truly despicable and hate filled Dan C.) STILL haven't gotten over it. It's
my opinion that you blame the wrong people for that disaster. There was no
good reason for us to have been there in the first damn place. The world
(and Viet-Nam) has survived quite well. Was the outcome in Korea any
better? Will you look back and think Iraq was worth it too?

I think too that it is well known and widely held that the anti-war movement
was infiltrated by agents from both our own government...FBI and who knows
who else...and real Communists and Socialists as well...instigators and
provocateurs from both edges of the political spectrum that gave the
movement many black eyes and IMO were the stimulus for the worst rhetoric
and even criminal behavior. The vast majority of us were idealistic, if
sometimes a tad naive. But you are sadly deluding yourself if you believe
the only ones acting like complete POS were the protesters.

I do. I don't find myself compelled to brag about it. It's simply decent
human behavior.

OK, well change my original statement to read '71-'72 then. I wasn't
insulting you, by the way, just wondering if your good treatment was the
result of coming back relatively early in the Nam era.

I think we've disagreed in the past on political issues, but I respect
your service and thank you for it. I was career military as well, 28
years in the Navy, and retired in 2006.

I don't think there is much doubt that *some* returning members were
treated poorly. It's easy enough to see that from documented reports,
newscasts, etc. It may well have been overblown by the mass media, no
doubt. No surprise there.

It figures you would be. One of the lib fanatics, even then. Wonder how
you managed to dodge serving your country...?

LOL! A conspiracy theorist, as well. Friggin hilarious.

You weren't "idealistic", you were cowards and pussies.

Sure you do. You should run for political office. You've got the public
lying part of it mastered already.

Friggin pathetic Lib/Socialist. Fuck off.

Okay, I'll say it did happen.

There, happy?

:D

Hey, arugula is expensive!

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=arugula+obama

Thank you for your service, Lou.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a loser!

Go watch "Hair," bitchboy!

:D

IF there was any doubt that you're a fembot, sissyboy, sad and sorry
excuse for a man, this post obliterates that doubt.

No spine, no balls, no courage. You are a failure as a man. Complete
failure.

How do you shave in the morning? I mean, you can't look at yourself
in the mirror, right??? Can you?????

Beyond pathetic.

Well you might want to ask that same question to some of your ultra
conservative cohorts who post here. I've asked and was told that the
fact they did not serve was not important.

One of the biggest conservative heroes and I'm quite sure one of yours
Veep Richard Cheney applied for deferments on five (5) occasions during
the Nam period and they were all granted. He was also quoted as saying
he had more "important" things to do in that time span than to serve in
the military.

Now that's a real first class "coward and pussy".

"Sweet Lou"

Never mind that. Let's hear again of all the war time exploits of the
present occupant of the White House. And how he smeared a vet who actually
served to get there...two if you count the guy running again now.

I take pride in being hated by a fucknut like Dan C. He's a swine.

Pussy. :)

I don't have any "cohorts" here... As for some not serving, perhaps they
didn't choose to, when there wasn't a draft going on. The fact that there
was a draft during Vietnam changes things. There's a difference between
not volunteering, and hiding/dodging.

Cheney is not a hero of mine, and in fact I don't much care for him. For
the record, I'm not much of a Bush fan, either, at least over the last 2-3
years.

Now, what other assumptions of yours (and others) can I overturn for ya?

I don't "hate" anybody. I do despise draft dodgers and cowards.

How about you answer the question of how you avoided the Vietnam draft...?
Are you ashamed of something, or what?

I'll bet he doesn't have the balls to answer, and can claim that he's got
me KF'd. Would someone kindly quote this post so he can "see" it?
Waiting for your answer, coward...

Actually, this is quite true. I wan involved with a couple of safe
houses to assist draft dodgers get into Canada, supplying them with
papers and legends, et al.

On one occasion we brought up a fellow that just 'didn't seem right.'
After getting him to Toronto, on his second 'orientation' into the city,
he was followed (we weren't all naive) as he went, by a circuitous
route, to the US Consulate. Hmmm.

He emerged four hours later and returned to the safe house. He spent the
next two weeks offering to assist us in our 'endeavours.' We also had a
few information sources, and almost everything he'd told 'us' was a
half-lie. We decided he was a plant and set him up to 'assist' other
draft dodgers who turned out to be Canadians visiting the US. They were
arrested.

Agent provocateur? Mole? Doesn't really matter, does it.

Why? Because some took a stand against an unpopular war and defied the
government much like others that started your country? Dissent is
cowardice? Try facing tear-gas and baton-wielding crazies with paper
bags and gardening gloves.

We learn by watching.

I always love your tolerant, two-way conversations, Dan.

mario in victoria
--
what did grenada do?

Mario - waiter by day, superspy by night.

ROFL!

Actually, it's waiter by night.
But then, facts never mattered to you before.

mario in victoria
--
insulted by a no-trick pony with tunnel-vision. cool!

Hey, you're the Obamamaniac - FACTS, WE DON'T NEED NO STEEEENKING
FACTS!!!

HOPE AND CHANGE ARE ENOUGH FOR ME!!!

HOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGE

> Socialist." <oneilsp...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:322a7a6b-62fb-46ad...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.

>> >>m.

>> >> >news:453e9b8a-de87-4404...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups
>> >> >.co m..

>> >> "Swift Boat" attacks should be deeply, deeply ashamed.- Hide

>> I either Get what I want or I change my mind. - Anonymous- Hide

You won't get a rational argument from a cement-head.

--
-------
"Its been a rough day. I got up this morning .... put on a shirt and a
button fell off. I picked up my briefcase and the handle came off. I'm
afraid to go to the bathroom." -Rodney Dangerfield

These are the same people that think some suit in Washington DC, has
their best interests at heart. How they can POSSIBLY believe that is
really beyond comprehension. It's as though they are intentionally
stupid or have never read a single history book.

Fucking liberals. They are all about re-distribution of wealth..... as
long as it's not there's.

Please defect to Cuba!

Pratt...perhaps the most hated name in Usenet that I have personally heard
of. PLONK.

Die.