• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

No EMPTY Gun Holsters Allowed In St.Louis Zoo!

Status
Not open for further replies.

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Call Jennifer Joyce's office @ (314) 622-4941 (Circuit Attorney) or if forum rules disallow phone number posting: http://www.circuitattorney.org/
...
If you find this as unacceptable as I do, please call the Circuit Attorney's office and express your displeasure. Thank you.
In Missouri as officer must inform you (the defendant) by what authority he acts.
Arrest.

544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.
If you are "detained" by a cop, and given the language of the above RSMo, you are under arrest and the cop must cite the statute (authority) that he believes authorizes his acts.

Once the statute is cited by the cop the legal nitpicking can begin.

"Detentions" is used in RSMo 575.150. http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57500001501.html
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
In Missouri as officer must inform you (the defendant) by what authority he acts.If you are "detained" by a cop, and given the language of the above RSMo, you are under arrest and the cop must cite the statute (authority) that he believes authorizes his acts.

Once the statute is cited by the cop the legal nitpicking can begin.

"Detentions" is used in RSMo 575.150. http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57500001501.html

Question! (Well scenario followed by question)
What if a cop is arresting/citing and you request a cite to authority.
Cops says well, Trespass 569.140.
And you, being the well studied OCDO member you are, say well as I am on public lands within an area open to the public and have not been given a lawful order personally communicated by the owner or other authorized person not to enter or remain there is no basis for any citation/arrest.
And the security jerk who is fixin' to open up the biggest can of worms he has ever seen says, Oh yeah, I told you to get out you knowledgeable OCDO dude!
And you say, ah, but officer, I don't think he has the legal ability to give a lawful order for me to leave because I'm pretty sure that a Nike Dry-Fit golf shirt, Dockers and Sperry shoes worn by a middle age guy who didn't even say a rude or off color word to anyone as he just walked around is not grounds to throw someone out of a public area so I would like to know the lawful order you, officer, are using as the basis to pursue a 569.140 arrest/citation. In other words, I demand to know on what basis I am being excluded from the premises which is the basis for your 569.140 charge. (Or more obviously, ask the cop if the supposed lawful order for you to leave is based solely on the fact that you are carrying a sidearm and no other cause)

Since the nature, type and specifics of the lawful order are integral to enforcing or charging a 569.140 violation, would the cop have legal obligation to tell you the specific lawful order on which the 569.140 charge is based since, without such lawful order, there could be no violation in the first place, or to even ask the security dude what you did to be excluded? Having documentation or at least a witness that the reason for exclusion is based on a firearm and no other reason may be important in some situations.

What say you?

Reference Statute Cites:
569.140. 1. A person commits the crime of trespass in the first degree if he knowingly enters unlawfully or knowingly remains unlawfully in a building or inhabitable structure or upon real property.

569.010. As used in this chapter the following terms mean:
(2) "Enter unlawfully or remain unlawfully", a person enters or remains in or upon premises when he or she is not licensed or privileged to do so. A person who, regardless of his or her purpose, enters or remains in or upon premises which are at the time open to the public does so with license and privilege unless he or she defies a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated to him or her by the owner of such premises or by other authorized person. A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of the building which is not open to the public;
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
After numerous attempts to get a reply of substance from anyone for days, a little while ago I sent this e-mail to Chief Dotson, the Circuit Attorney, multiple people at the AG's office, and the press:


(I would appreciate it if those who work for law enforcement officials would pass this on to their employer, because the subject matter below is also directed to them)


Chief Dotson,

After repeated outreach to the Zoo, the Zoo’s attorney, you, and other law enforcement authorities, everyone appears to think that a lack of substantial response, or silence, is going to intimidate me into not fully challenging the Zoo’s “position” or “No Guns” signage posting. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As I have been unable to ascertain any lawful authority for the Zoo to ban firearms and no one receiving these emails has provided any such authority, I intend to enter the public gated area of the Zoo carrying a sidearm. I expect to do be able to do so peaceably and without disturbance as it is an entirely lawful act.

Regarding the Zoo’s rules and regulations, the Zoo may exclude people who “…willfully violate such rules.” (RSMo 184.362) BUT, the Zoo’s rules must be lawful, and one must “willfully” violate them. To that end, If I’m asked to leave by a Zoo employee or subcontractor, I will first ask what rule it is that I am violating. Assuming it’s related to the fact that I’m carrying a firearm, I will refuse to leave. Law enforcement may be contacted. Once the officer(s) arrive, if I’m again asked to leave, I will politely ask the officer the same question, and I’ll ask that it be noted on the citation I’m issued when I refuse to leave. Once I am given a citation, I will promptly and politely leave the Zoo without further discussion. Except for not leaving prior to being issued a citation, I will comply with all other lawful orders of the officer(s).

I’ll have a recording device running, and I’m sure the media who will tag along will also have theirs.

The analysis below is the understanding of law on which I will rely in order to act in accordance with the law. I’m sure your legal counsel will recognize that the rule of lenity applies.


Further analysis of why the Zoo’s “position”, “No Guns” signage, and potential “rules” violations for carrying a firearm at the Zoo are contrary to Missouri Law

(Any bolding, underlining or coloring below is mine)

RSMo 21.750 preempts political subdivisions in matters relating to firearms thus: “21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.”

Subsection 2 of RSMo 21.750 spells out the types of things which are preempted: “2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.”

RSMO 21.750.3(1) allows any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with 571.010 to 571.070 “…with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms.” The District and Subdistricts existing under RSMo 184 get their rule/regulation powers from 184.362, and nowhere in 184.362 or elsewhere in Section 184 do they have any authority to write, create or pass an ordinance - they can only create reasonable rules and regulations that “may not be inconsistent with the provisions of law”.

If the legislature intended to equate rules and regulations with ordinances, it wouldn’t have made the distinction between orders, ordinances, and regulations in RSMo 21.750 (1) and (2).

To summarize the above: because of RSMo 21.750 (1) and (2), the Zoo can’t make orders, rules or regulations regarding concealed carry, and because the Zoo can’t create ordinances in the first place, it can’t regulate open carry either.


Next we come to RSMo 571.107, which lists specific or specific types of places where a concealed carry permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed firearm. The Zoo doesn’t fit ANY of those places. I’ve already discussed the Zoo’s dubious ploy to identify itself as an amusement park via 571.107 (13). I also mentioned that the Zoo might consider itself a “municipality”, but it isn’t – it’s a subdistrict. AND, it can’t create ordinances, which are referenced in 21.750 (1), (2), and (3). Simply, the Zoo isn’t, as RSMo 571.107 (6) refers to, the “general assembly, supreme court, county or municipality” - entities which are allowed to post signage barring concealed carry under that subsection. Furthermore, the last sentence of 571.107(6) reads “The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any other unit of government.” The Zoo is an entity created under RSMo 184, not a municipality, and as such can’t post signage or any other concealed carry restriction in buildings or otherwise. (Even though the Zoo doesn’t fit any of the descriptions in subsections 1-17 of RSMo 571.107, it should be noted that nothing in the section restricts open carry in those places)


Finally, let’s look at the subject of open carry restrictions alone. Can the Zoo restrict open carry of firearms and still comply with RSMo 21.750? RSMo 21.750.3(2) states “In any jurisdiction in which the open carrying of firearms is prohibited by ordinance, the open carry of firearms shall not be prohibited…” Well, the Zoo can’t ban open carry by ordinance (since it can’t create one), but can it make a rule or regulation to do so? NO. RSMo 21.750 (1) & (2) preempts entities other than the state from addressing firearms “in any way”, and RSMo 21.750 (3) applies only to entities which can create ordinances, and since the Zoo can’t, it has no power to restrict open carry either. Even if the city of St. Louis, if it chose to disregard Article 1, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution, were to attempt to enforce its open carry ban on the Zoo premises, it should be noted that anyone with a concealed carry permit/endorsement or its equivalent would be exempt.


Trespass

As established above, the Zoo doesn’t have any authority to post “No Guns” signs or to bar concealed or open carry of firearms in any publicly open area of the Zoo. As such it is impossible for any representative of the Zoo to give a lawful order not to enter or remain in or at a public areas of the Zoo because someone is carry a firearm or firearm accessory. I strongly suggest that you inform your officers of the totality of the situation, as it’s my assertion that there could be significant legal jeopardy for any officer and their superior(s) if they were to enforce any request they know, or should have known, to be unlawful.

Per RSMo 184.362. “The use and enjoyment of such institutions and places, museums and parks of any and all of the subdistricts established under RSMo 184.350 to RSMO 184.384 “shall be forever free and open to the public” and then under RSMo 569.140. “1. A person commits the crime of trespass in the first degree if he knowingly enters unlawfully or knowingly remains unlawfully in a building or inhabitable structure or upon real property”, but that is predicated on RSMo 569.010: “As used in this chapter the following terms mean: …(2) "Enter unlawfully or remain unlawfully", a person enters or remains in or upon premises when he or she is not licensed or privileged to do so. A person who, regardless of his or her purpose, enters or remains in or upon premises which are at the time open to the public does so with license and privilege unless he or she defies a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated to him or her by the owner of such premises or by other authorized person”.



In conclusion

If the above understanding or interpretation of the law differs from that of your legal counsel, please contact me ASAP, or have someone deliver a legal brief to me at the Zoo.

I don’t think I have to spell things out further than I have in my repeated communications, Chief. I’ve given you and everyone else ample, repeated notice. I think you recognize the potential civil liability on the part of various individuals and entities for ignoring all that I’ve sent your way. I also think you recognize the potential for a piercing of qualified immunity if your officers, or the officers of a police department which could reasonably be expected to be present issue an unlawful order or otherwise violate my Constitutional rights under the United States or the Missouri Constitution.

I’m planning to leave Cincinnati later this afternoon, and as I told you last Friday, I don’t have all the computing/records access which I do while at home. Please call or text me on my cell phone (xxx-xxx-xxxx) if you wish to contact me after 6:00 PM your time this evening..

I’ll close with reference to Article 1, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution: remember that the protection of the right to keep and bear arms, unalienable, subject to strict scrutiny, and which you and other law enforcement officials are obligated to uphold and protect against infringement, must be part of your analysis of the legality of my above described course of action.



Cordially,


Me
xxx-xxx-xxxx (until 6:00 PM your time this evening)



Article 1, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution (colloquially referred to as “Amendment 5) http://ballotpedia.org/Article_I,_Missouri_Constitution#Section_23

That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms, in defense of his home, person, family and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned.

The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement.

Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the general assembly from enacting general laws which limit the rights of convicted violent felons or those duly adjudged mentally infirm by a court of competent jurisdiction.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,950
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I'm at a loss to understand why RSMo 569.010.1(2) is quoted when said section quoted does not take effect until January 1, 2017.

It is however substantially the same as RSMo 569.010.2(8).

The operative part of being on public property open to the public is "lawful order." Exercising a right is usually not a crime.
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
I'm at a loss to understand why RSMo 569.010.1(2) is quoted when said section quoted does not take effect until January 1, 2017.

It is however substantially the same as RSMo 569.010.2(8).

The operative part of being on public property open to the public is "lawful order." Exercising a right is usually not a crime.

I am not able to cite the reference but it has to do with time to contend with the homeless issue.

STL has a "tent city" down on the landing in a pretty unpopulated and rarely visited area. They even have a mail box set up for the "residents" living down there.

We have a guy, Larry Rice who has a Christian shelter and its permit allows something like 69 persons but he has been known to house as high as 200 in the building (not crazy though it is a huge building) and he has thumbed his nose for years while helping the homeless.

Well they have finally progressed to pushing him out and they are trying to get rid of the tent city at the same time.

I am going to SWAG and say they put the extension on it because they changed it to force them all out but at the same time they are not stupid and they have no other place to put them once they opt to force out.

Again wild guess but I am betting it is correcting something that has allowed him to keep them at bay for years and I mean he has been kicking the citys butt for actually DECADES, I just wish he liked guns lol
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
** Amusement park **

The media is STILL asking me about "amusement park", delaying my departure from Cincinnati, so I just sent them and the authorities this message:

To the media (and the authorities),

Even as late as this morning I am still being asked if the Zoo is an “amusement park”, so instead of getting on the road, I will answer the question one more time. <sigh>

If you’ve been following my communications you would have seen that as far back as May, 31, in my first communication with the Zoo, I asked: “Mention was made of the Zoo possibly claiming to be a “gated amusement park”. Is this an accurate claim, and if so, how does the Zoo meet the criterion for such a designation?” To date I’ve gotten NO response to that question from anyone at the Zoo, nor anyone in law enforcement - despite repeated, specific questions and analysis about that and other things.

Why haven’t all of you asked the Zoo and the authorities the same question repeatedly, and noted that the Zoo and the authorities are unwilling (or unable) to answer such a simple question??

I know you probably don’t think of the Zoo as a governmental entity, but it is: “Essentially, the Zoo is a government agency…” http://www.stlzoo.org/about/organization/

So, your government, both the Zoo and the authorities, won’t answer a question, the definition of which may very well be the basis for prosecution, if the authorities choose to go that route. Yes, if the authorities choose the malicious prosecution route, instead of cooler heads prevailing, I suspect the case may very well hinge on the definition of “amusement park” and how or if the Zoo can be shoehorned into that definition.

You’ve got a day and a half to ask the questions that I’ve previosuly posed and get specific answers rather than no answers, vague, non-answers or “statements”. If you’re able to get somewhere, please let me know. If not, the fact that you can’t ought to be very troubling to those of you who believe in government accountability, and in the notion that someone’s financial and physical freedom, regardless of the degree, ought not to be at risk because of unresponsive officials intent on covering each other’s behinds. You may also want to re-review my e-mail below.

Finally, recall this all started because some overbearing Zoo security staff member ejected a friend of mine from the Zoo for wearing an EMPTY holster.


Thank you,

Me
xxx-xxx-xxxx (cell phone, text or calls only)

P.S. Malicious prosecution: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Malicious+prosecution
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
** Amusement park II **

My initial note to the authorities on the subject (sent three days ago):

Chief Dotson,

Since you appear to be the point-man on my proposed armed visit to the Zoo, I’m addressing this note to you.

Thank you for your call Friday. I know that you said you would call me yesterday or today, after you spoke with legal counsel, and I know the clock hasn’t run out yet.

Despite that, I felt I should write you because the Zoo has put out some initial legal justification for their “No Guns” signage – and I think it appropriate to respond preemptively. You can find their reported comments here: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_4dcdc258-822a-5187-847a-590e9634b65f.html

One such justification appears to be a reference to “several provisions” of RSMo 571.107: http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100001071.HTML While I can only speculate what the “several” provisions are, based on the Zoo’s historical response to some patrons/potential patrons, I can guess that the Zoo may again put forward the claim that it’s a “gated amusement park”. (Apparently the Zoo ignored the fact that, at least at one entrance, stands an approximately 35 foot vertical pillar which says “ZOO”)

To the best of my knowledge, Missouri statutory law doesn’t define “amusement park”, nor does Missouri case law. Again, to my knowledge, the case law only deals with so called amusement parks that are for profit entertainment businesses. Additionally, there is no case law defining a zoo as an amusement park. Does the Zoo have a few amusement rides? Yes. Does this make it an amusement park? NO. Not even state regulations define an “amusement park” - the state regulates amusement rides (RSMo 316.203 - 316.233), not amusement parks.

So where is one to turn? Your legal counsel would probably first turn to case law. I encourage them to read the following case:

Wolff Shoe Co. v. Director of Revenue, 762 SW 2d 29 - Mo: Supreme Court 1988

The primary rule of statutory construction is to ascertain the intent of the legislature from the language used, to give effect to that intent if possible, and to consider the words used in their plain and ordinary meaning. Metro Auto Auction v. Director of Revenue, 707 S.W.2d 397, 401 (Mo. banc 1986). And, where a statute's language is clear and unambiguous, there is no room for construction. Id. In determining whether the language is clear and unambiguous, the standard is whether the statute's terms are plain and clear to one of ordinary intelligence. Alheim v. F.W. Mullendore, 714 S.W.2d 173, 176 (Mo.App. 1986). Moreover, the plain and unambiguous language of a statute cannot be made ambiguous by administrative interpretation and thereby given a meaning which is different from that expressed in a statute's clear and unambiguous language. Blue Springs Bowl v. Spradling, 551 S.W.2d 596, 600 (Mo. banc 1977). (my underline)

Of course they could also look to RSMo 184.352 (15) which refers to the Zoo thus: "Zoological subdistrict" shall consist of such institutions and places for the collection and exhibition of animals and animal life, for the instruction and recreation of the people, for the promotion of zoology and kindred subjects, for the encouragement of zoological study and research and for the increase of public interest in wild animals and in the protection of wild animal life. Amazingly, it doesn’t say anything about the Zoo subdistrict including an amusement park. http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/chapters/chapText184.html

I’m sure that the Zoo’s counsel is engaged in all sorts of legal gymnastics to justify the identification of the Zoo as some kind of entity, ANY kind of entity in order to bar firearms from within its gates, but back to the discussion of “amusement park”… If all the above isn’t sufficient, then I suggest legal counsel look to common sense.

Bringing in a reference to the Missouri Constitution, Article 1, Section 23, I daresay that protection of the right to keep and bear arms, unalienable, subject to strict scrutiny, and which you and other law enforcement officials are obligated to uphold and protect against infringement, should not be subject to the legal contortions the Zoo has or may use to enforce their biases, rather than the law. This also applies to the threatened removal of my friend from the Zoo for wearing an empty holster.
 
Last edited:

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
^^^^
Have a great time tomorrow. ;)

My apologies for not being able to attend. Looking forward to the afterward report.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
BREAKING: Zoo Takes Legal Action to Block Gun Protesters
KMOX’s Kevin Killeen reports that the Saint Louis Zoo has asked the court for a temporary restraining order to block an open-carry gun event set for 1:30 p.m. Saturday.

The St. Louis police chief is scrambling to block the open-carry demonstration, saying that in his opinion, “more guns are never the answer.”
...

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson says Missouri has some of the most liberal gun laws in the country, and it may allow an open-carry protest to happen inside the zoo.

Amendment 5, was passed in August 2014, establishes the “unalienable right of citizens to keep and bear arms, ammunition and accessories associated with the normal functioning of such arms, for the purpose of defense of one’s person, family, home and property.”
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/06/12/gun-protesters-plan-to-march-through-st-louis-zoo/

Links to the TRO/Petition for TRO and to Petition for Permanent Injunction from story

https://cbsstlouis.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/motion-for-tro-with-tro-attached.pdf
https://cbsstlouis.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/verified-petition.pdf
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Thanks for the links.

The zoo would seem to be really stretching some definitions and interpretations.

And this all started because the OP had an empty holster? Amazing? Hoplophobia truly has no limits.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
TRO language from Casenet:

Temporary Restraining Order
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED,ADJUDGED AND DECLARED AS FOLLOWS: DEFENDANT SMITH(AND ANYONE ACTING IN CONCERT WITH HIM OR WHO HAS KNOWLEDGE OF THIS ORDER) IS HEREBY TEMPORARILY RETAINED AND ENJOINED, BEGINNING UPON THE FILINF OF A $10.00 CASH/SURETY BOND FROM ENTERING UPON SAINT LOUIS ZOO PROPERTY IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM OR ANY OTHER WEAPON CAPABLE OF LETHAL USE(WHETHER THE WEAPON IS POSSESSED OPENLY OR CONCEALED). THIS TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER SHALL REMAIN IN FULL FORCE AND EFFECT THROUGH THE CONCLUSION OF THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION HEARING WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR JUNE 22,2015 COMMENCING AT 1:30 PM IN DIV 31 OF THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF SAINT LOUIS, OR AS OTHERWISE HEREAFTER ORDERED BY THE COURT SO ORDERED JUDGE JOAN L MORIARTY
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
If you haven't already done so, I suggest people read the duplicitous filing of the Zoo, and the judge's response.

Basically, the Zoo's filing turns clear language law inside-out.

If you know anyone in a high place in the RKBA world, tell them where to find me, as the formal hearing is June 22.

(P.S. - I have been assured by highly placed legal counsel, not in MO, that because of the effort the Zoo made, they felt extremely threatened, legally, by all my communications.)
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
If you haven't already done so, I suggest people read the duplicitous filing of the Zoo, and the judge's response.

Basically, the Zoo's filing turns clear language law inside-out.

If you know anyone in a high place in the RKBA world, tell them where to find me, as the formal hearing is June 22.

(P.S. - I have been assured by highly placed legal counsel, not in MO, that because of the effort the Zoo made, they felt extremely threatened, legally, by all my communications.)

Have you contacted the NRA?
 

kcgunfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,002
Location
KC
In Missouri, this is the first place to start: http://www.kljamisonlaw.com/

Mr. Jamison literally wrote the book on gun laws in Missouri and is probably the best at the game. He on the west side of the state though, and isn't a huge fan of open carry. He would be worth talking to at a minimum. You're likely to get a short preaching to though.


If you haven't already done so, I suggest people read the duplicitous filing of the Zoo, and the judge's response.

Basically, the Zoo's filing turns clear language law inside-out.

If you know anyone in a high place in the RKBA world, tell them where to find me, as the formal hearing is June 22.

(P.S. - I have been assured by highly placed legal counsel, not in MO, that because of the effort the Zoo made, they felt extremely threatened, legally, by all my communications.)
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
In Missouri, this is the first place to start: http://www.kljamisonlaw.com/

Mr. Jamison literally wrote the book on gun laws in Missouri and is probably the best at the game. He on the west side of the state though, and isn't a huge fan of open carry. He would be worth talking to at a minimum. You're likely to get a short preaching to though.
Just contacted him via phone, and will be sending him documentation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top