william a. davis

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jeffery
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william a. davis

Post by jeffery »

hello again everybody!
jeffery here!
sorry i havent been around,but i lost interest until i saw the discovery channel show.
i will answer any questions regarding my theory on the case!
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Mark A.
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Post by Mark A. »

What's your theroy on the case?
Mark A.
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

Jeffery's theory is one of conspiracy between Uncle John Morse and William A. Davis, the butcher, with the help of a driver/collaborator.

Here is a link to the most recent discussion:

viewtopic.php?t=168

We took a stab at sharing the story but didn't finish.

When Stef and Harry and I stayed in Westport, Len took us to the area where the Davis land was and where the land was where William S. Borden committed suicide. These locations were not far from each other in the Westport & So. Dartmouth areas. It was very interesting to see the lay of the land- and beautiful too as the leaves were changing colors.
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Post by jeffery »

kat,do u happen to have that complete fall river paper article from the info i gave stef about mr. cuttle and the man he met on rodman st. the day after the crime?
there are a few details in that article that are helpful.
thank you much jeffery
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Post by Tracie »

Hi everyone,

What happened with the farm at Swansea after the Bordens were murdered? Did Morse take possession of this farm or did the girls sell it to someone else.

I'm glad to hear your back, Jeffrey, your theory held my attention for along time.

Tracie
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Post by jeffery »

after the borden murders, lizzie and emma retained the lower and upper farms in swansea.
the upper is on gardners neck road and the lower is on pierce road.

john morse did not get what he had hoped for, which was 1/2 of the duplex farmhouse on gardners neck road.
(my opinion)-the other half going to william and sophia davis.
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

jeffery @ Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:13 am wrote:kat,do u happen to have that complete fall river paper article from the info i gave stef about mr. cuttle and the man he met on rodman st. the day after the crime?
there are a few details in that article that are helpful.
thank you much jeffery
I'm sorry, but I don't recall to what you refer.
I have just recently come into some Fall River papers transcribed by Harry.
I haven't read them all. Should I look there? Is there any more info you can give me- more specific? Should I WORD search your document?
Thanks.
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Post by jeffery »

the reference was in one of the fall river paper's.(globe,herald or news.) for friday august 4th or saturday the 5th with mr. cuttle's name in the headline.
a reporter interviewed mr. cuttle of rodman street.
mr. cuttle stated that on friday, august 5th,(the day after crime) between the hours of 9 a.m. and 10 a.m.
while in front of his store talking to another man about the borden murders,that he noticed another man standing a few feet away from them. whom he believed was trying to listen to their conversation.
mr. cuttle then said that the man approached him and asked him "is this your store?
" mr. cuttle replied, "yes".
then the man exclaimed;"ohh! I am a BUTCHER too"! and then asked mr. cuttle where he could get a drink.
mr.cuttle pointed to a saloon or pub across the street and the man then proceeded in that direction.
mr.cuttle then gave a detailed description of the stranger and how he was dressed,saying something about him,"having the appearance of a gypsy".
which was the exact same description given of the horse traders in westport by another reporter.
it was also the same description given by mr. st. amant and 5 other witnesses to officer j.m. heap in the witness statements.
there were others who also gave statements that they saw this man on the day of or the day following the tragedy.WHO WERE NEVER CALLED TO TESTIFY!
they were: mrs. p.d. conant,ellen eagan,mrs. marshall and the griffith brothers.
mr. cuttle stated that the man had asked him where he could get a drink.(as the man was departing from cuttle.)
also,several fall river papers reported that when the police went to interview mr. st. amant a second time about the stranger he had met on the day of the tragedy.he stated to them that the man had asked him( as the man was departing from st. amant.) where he could get a drink!
st.amant and several others who were there at the time said that the stranger, "leaned a little to the left when he walked".
from there, i looked through several medical books,talked to a few doctors and looked up several medical websites as to what would cause this man to walk this way and found that his condition was caused due to "ecessive consumption of alcahol".
which caused him to have a non-malignent brain tumor on the right side of his brain,which affected his gait or manner of walking and caused him to"lean a little to the left when he walked".
this man was william a. davis!!!!!!!!
when i talked to a close friend of william's grandson,ramon.
he informed me that ramon used to be a severe alcoholic and that one time it almost took his life in an auto accident.
the sins of the father were handed down to the children,speaking of which: william to isaac to ramon.
i would also like to take back what i said about my reference to marshall hilliard closing the police investigation shortly after the murders.
he didn't!
i found that out while skimming through a copy of the new bedford standard times,"did she or didn't she?"
the report says that when the grand jury did not come back with an indictment against lizzie after hearing witness testimony and before hearing alice russell.
marshall hilliard and prosecutor knowlton were still dispatching officers to hunt down the confederate whom they believe was involed with miss lizzie in the crime.
i do not have the article handy because i no longer have the book.
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Haulover
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Post by Haulover »

do you still have the picture you posted one time of william davis? (or was it the son?) i'd like to see it again.
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Post by jeffery »

sorry, i don't.
but kat does!
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

From Jeffery's own document. Page 53-54 of 122. I have not attempted to supply quotes:


William a.Davis died on May 7,1900. his death certificate lists cause of death as deposit on brain, ( tumor ) and cancer of the neck. * source - ( Dartmouth vital records )

after researching various medical books and web sites as to what would
cause him to walk that way. this is what I found :

( gait ) - the manner or style of walking.

a cerebellar gait is a staggering ataxic gait, sometimes with a
tendency to fall or lean to one side when walking, indicative of
cerebellar lesions.

a cerebellar lesion is a precancerous lesion, it is a tissue in which the cells are likely to become cancerous. this type of lesion stems from a non-malignent brain tumor.

the cerebellum is the part of the brain most responsible for
coordinating sequences of movements: it also controls balance and
posture.

prolonged alcohol abuse is the most common cause of damage to the
cerebellum.

the next three articles relate to Mr. Davis' asking Mr. St. Amant on August 4th and then Mr. Cuttle on August 5th as to where he could secure a drink.

article 1 ) Fall River Herald, Tuesday August, 16, 1892 :

THE BORDEN CASES

INQUEST NOT OPENED TODAY AS EXPECTED

JUDGE BLAISDELL WILL PRESIDE AT MONDAY'S HEARING

RUNNING DOWN CLUES - THE FLINT VILLAGE SUSPECT COULD STOP FOR A DRINK

the suspicious looking individual who wanted romauld St. Amant, the Flint village wood dealer, to take him to New Bedford has not yet been found, but the police have now little confidence in the idea that he will be of any importance in the case after he is found.

after failing to find any trace of the man, the officers who were
looking for him, returned to the wood dealer for a repitition of the
description.

while they were talking to St. Amant, he said something about being invited to drink. it then came out that after he had refused, at his wife's instigation, to drive the stranger to New Bedford, the latter invited him over to sexton's saloon at the corner of Pleasant and Quequechan st. to drink St. Amant did not go.

the stranger was not so strange that he did not know where joe
sexton's was. and he was not in so much of a hurry that he could not stop to enjoy a drink and invite a chance aquaintance to share it.

* 1892, Joseph J. sexton, " saloon ", 351 Pleasant st., res. 485
d.o.


article 2 ) witness statements, page 29 -

Fall River, August 4, 1892 :
went at 9:30 p.m. tonight with officer conners to New Bedford to
ascertain the whereabouts of a man who offered a Frenchman living on
Jencks street, four dollars to carry him to New Bedford. this man is said to have got into the Frenchman's team near eight rod way, on Pleasant street, and is said to have acted strangely. his description is given as follows :

height; 5 feet 9 or 10 inches, weight; 175 lbs, dark complexioned, broad shoulders, wore dark clothes. the Frenchman declined to carry him to New Bedford, and the man went off, inquiring where he might get a drink.we followed from one saloon to another until we arrived outside the city limits, going to New Bedford, ten hours incessant work failed to find any such person, and I now doubt the truthfulness of the Frenchman's story.


article 3 ) Fall River Daily Herald, Thursday August, 11, 1892 :

ANOTHER STRANGE MAN

OVERSEER CUTTLE BELIEVES THAT HE TALKED WITH THE MURDERER

overseer of the poor Cuttle had a talk with a queer acting stranger on the morning after the murder, and he thinks that if he had securded him at the time he would have had the assassin. Mr. Cuttle is no romancer, but a steady going business man whose reputation for veracity is above questioning.

" between 9 and 10 o' clock Friday morning, " he says, " I was
standing in front of my store discussing the murder of the day before
with a friend of mine, when a rough looking individual approached and
stood listening within a few feet of us. I first thought he was some
gypsy. he was dressed in a dirty grayish suit, wore a stiff hat and had
the unkept appearance of a man who had slept out all night, and had
neglected to wash himself in the morning. he was about 5 ft 5 inches
tall and was quite stout. he might weigh in the vicinity of 185 pounds.
he was very dark complexioned, almost tawny, in fact, and had a full
face. he had neither whiskers nor mustache, (clean shaven) and his whole appearance reminded me of that of men I have seen about gypsy camps.

" after listening to our conversation a few moments he suddenly walked
over to me and said,

" do you own this store? "

i said, " yes."

" what kind of a store is it? " he asked.

"grocery and provisions, " I replied, and then, thinking that he was
becoming rather

inquisitive, and not liking his personal appearance I asked him ;

"where do you come from? "" New Bedford," he said.

"and what is your business? " I continued,

" WELL, I'M IN THE BUTCHERING BUSINESS TOO," HE REMARKED,

and before I could have any furthur talk with him, he changed the
subject and said,

" where can I get a glass of beer? "

" I pointed to a bar room from where I stood, and he walked away
toward it. at the time, something seemed to cause my mind to connect
this man with the crime. I could not leave the store and follow him, and no one else came along who could shadow him or who could take my place while I went. the man never mentioned the tragedy at all, but he heard the gentleman with whom I was conversing, discussing it with me, and he seemed to be extremely interested in it, and although I have no really positive facts to justify me in making the acusation, I honestly believe that if there was an assassin, this man was the person."

the fact is, William a. Davis was in Fall River on the day of the
murders and the day after. he also suffered from a non- malignant brain tumor because of his prolonged battle with alcohol abuse.


the next article adds a few more details given in the statement of Mr.
st. laurant taken by officer J.m. heap.

article 1 ) Thursday August 11,1892

WHO IS THIS MAN ?

the terrible looking stranger who overtook romauld St. Amant on eight rod way, last Thursday afternoon, climbed apon his heavily laden wagon and urged him to drive him to New Bedford, at the same time thrusting money into his hand, was seen and particularly noticed by several persons in Flint village. John h. st. laurant, a grocer, said he saw him when he came out of St. Amant's coal yard on Jencks street. and was struck by his appearance. but Mr. Arcand's foreman, alex cote, refused to comply with his request, saying he did not let horses to strangers. that was the last seen of the inquirer. all agree that he was about 30 years of age and about 5 feet 6 inches high. he was of dark complection and his face looked newly shaved. His clothing was dark. he had a slight mark over the nose. he seemed to have plenty of money and his sole absorbing desire seemed to be to get away quickly.a boy who understood english better than Mr. St. Amant said that he overheard the man say at the woodyard that he would give anybody $10 who would drive him to New Bedford. st. laurant was so much afraid of him that a sensation came over him when the man passed behind him; that he looked mean enough to strike one. the stranger asked him if there was a livery stable in the vicinity and st. laurant directed him to George e. Arcand's place on Flint st. the man went to Arcand's stable and hurriedly said : can I get a horse right away to go to New Bedford? he was refused.
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

Here is something weird, you may not have seen! It's a shocker. This is the picture of a man Jeffery believes to be William A. Davis in the papers in 1985 as ANDREW BORDEN!

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Post by diana »

It's interesting that Medley says after his interview on August 4 that he doubts the truthfulness of the frenchman's story -- and yet it appears that someone sent J.M. Heap out 10 days later to re-interview St. Amant. (Witness statements, page 40)

And how odd if that 1985 picture is indeed William A. Davis. Is there any corroboration that it is a picture of Davis? Where did the Boston Herald get the picture, I wonder .. and why did they think it was Andrew?
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Post by jeffery »

the history of the photo from info i recieved was that faye musselman, years ago went to the fall river historical society and while talking to mrs. florence brigham, was told that the photo(and one other) had come from the family of john morse, which had donated several photos of the borden's as well.
the family stated that they did not know who the two men were.
i am convinced that the photo of the clean shaven man is william a. davis!
my reasons for this are, not only did it come from the john morse personnal collection.
when i met the grandson of w.a. davis,his features appeared exacly like those of the man in the photo.
they both have blue eyes, stout build,same skin texture and the man in the photo is most likely short in stature.
as was the supect seen at the time of the murder,and so is the grandson!
i was also told by a family friend that william's son isaac was short as well!

kat commented before that the shoulder(s) of the man in the photo were a bit misshapen.
the stranger seen by the people in flint village said that he leaned a little to the left when he walked,which seems to coincide with this condition!
the man in the picture is clean shaven!
and if you noticed,nearly every single man in that era had facial hair, either mustache or beard or both!
in every instance where a witness was interviewed regarding the stranger they had seen on august 4th and 5th, (with the exception of one which was a year after the fact) they all stated that the man was clean shaven.
when i had told len rebello this, he said, "you may have something there"
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Post by jeffery »

ion my last post i wrote that faye musselman went to the historical society
but, now her name somehow was replaced with the word scoundrel!
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Post by jeffery »

ion my last post i wrote that faye musselman went to the historical society
but, now her name somehow was replaced with the word scoundrel!
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Post by jeffery »

the person i mentioned as recieving info from mrs. brigham at the historical society, i will only say is female.
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

Yes, that's tricky, isn't it? :smile:
............
Did you get a chance to show that picture to the Davis grandson?

We should ask Bill Pavao, because he has met Morse family and been given pictures too.

What if it isn't Davis?
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Post by lydiapinkham »

This thread is quite intriguing. Is there any way of getting a positive id on the purported William Davis photo from the FRHS, Kat? How much is known about the man apart from the case?

--Lyddie
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

I think Jeffery was going to show that photo around. A descendent could identify him and Jeffery has met one.
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Post by Nancie »

HA like Jeffrey is going to come back here after
his posts were altered with?
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

As I've explained, Stefani has settings here and they are her choice and automatic.
We've shown Jeffery cordiality and respect here, and he can speak for himself.
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Post by bobarth »

Is there any way to get the rest of that article?
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

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Post by nbcatlover »

From
http://www.legacy.com/southcoasttoday/O ... =107793473
Ramon W. Davis
MARION — Ramon Winston Davis, 85, of Marion died April 15, 2008, at Sippican Healthcare Center after a brief illness. He was the husband of Natalie (Webber) Davis and the late Pauline (Brunelle) Davis.

Born and raised in Padanaram, the son of the late Isaac and Vera (Wright) Davis, he lived in Marion since 1956 and had wintered in Jamaica for the late 30 years.

Mr. Davis was formerly employed by General Adjustment Bureau in New Bedford for many years until retirement.

He was an avid golfer and sailor and was the 5th longest member of the Beverly Yacht Club.

Mr. Davis served in the South China Sea in the U.S. Navy during World War II.
.

Until I read this in today's newspaper, I did not realize Ramon was still alive and living in the area. He's seems to have been a man who lived a full and social life.
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Post by augusta »

Thank you for posting, nbcatlover! This is the theory that I believe in. It all fits: Morse's involvement, that photo of the wrong Andrew with the mis-shapen shoulder (how many people with that ailment would a person see in FR on the day after the murder, and that would be suspect of doing it?); the trade of butcher; the clean-shaven description. I had not known who had gotten the half of the duplex in Swansea before. Someone had sent me this photo of the 'wrong Andrew' before, and I think then it was verified that it was Davis.

But what about the dark-complected part? This man looks quite pale.

Ennyway, that was a great find, catlover! I have come across current day obituaries of descendants of people who were involved in the Borden case. For some reason, people seem to live a long time in Fall River. :smile:
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Post by augusta »

There is also Allen's post under "Uncle John Returns" posted on Mon., April 14, 2008 at 1:36 am, that Morse "dropped a letter" that was addressed to William A. Davis in South Dartmouth. It had the words "In Haste" written on it.

Aaugggh! If we only knew what he said in that letter ... "Bill, Do not come back to Fall River or try to contact me at the Borden's house. The food is terrible!"
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Post by nbcatlover »

I suspected some change was going on--someone had cleared all the brush in front of the Davis House a couple of weeks ago. There are several NO TREPASSING signs posted on the property (guess we know who these are for...). There is also a sizable piece of undeveloped land (the remaining farm fields). Wonder if the family still has the letters hidden away...Ramon doesn't seem to have needed the money so there was no financial incentive for him to reveal them.

The truth is that they were probably destroyed. The Davises would have had no reason to suspect the Borden deaths would have such long-standing interest to others.

The letter may have been extremely mundane.

Due to family misfortune, will not be returning tonight as expected. Sell the oxen to other interested party; Andrew will not be needing it

But then, lots of old, previously-unknown information has been surfacing recently.

I'm just sorry that more people who were interested in the case didn't have the opportunity to speak with and interview Ramon about his perceptions on the case and its impact on his family. Perhaps some insights or family stories he might have heard about Uncle John?
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