Start Stop Tapping Forward Reverse control board blown.
I bought a used Syil X3 mill that the spindle motor was not working on. The Lcd also does not work. I removed the front panel on the head and can see some burned out parts on the board. I can only guess that the owner before me shorted it out by trying to remove the cover without lowering the quill and turning off the power first.
So now the big question is what do I do now? Can I fix the board or do I need a new one? Is it likely that other parts are blown on other boards? I hear the relays click when I tell mach3 to turn the spindle on and off so I know there is power to that part of the machine. Just no spindle power. All fuses that I can find check out fine. The X, Y and Z all move fine with mach3.
Bret
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I am not getting an answer from syil so I ordered a spindle control board from grizzly tools. To me it looks like it should be the same part. If not I hope they take it back. Over the weekend Ill look into buying parts to fix the bad board in my machine.
At least now I know when it is time to buy a cnc I will not get one from syil. Support seems poor at best.
I guess I will reply to my own post. The Grizzly board is not the same. Don't bother getting one.
To late, I already ordered one and found out your right Bret.
Sorry to hear that Bret. I guess Syil doesn't care about old products so you can't fix your old machine without up grading all the electronics inside.
OK Bret, Then I guess I will just rip out all the Syil crap and make some other motor work with the machine. For now I will look at just running one of the DC motors I have lying around.
Sounds like a plan Bret. If I were you I would also look into upgrading everything to Gecko G540 and a VFD with 3 phase motor for the spindle. At least Gecko will support their products years down the road.
That shouldn't cost more than $750 or more to do just because a little board went bad.
Sorry if I sound sour because I am right now. Maybe I'll find that little board and get it running but right now I can't find anyone selling parts. It's a cool little mill but there is to much junk to go wrong.
Bret4
Take a photo o your blown up bits. I might be able to help.
Mostly can be repaired. All standard parts, unless you have the atmel cpu in the problem area.
Neil
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
Hi Neil,
I have been reading everything I can on these forums and elsewhere. From what I have read here if you can't help me then no one can. Here are two photos of the board. The damage seems to go across all of the lower part of the board. The smallest chip on the left bottom is burnt in half. The one next it just under the largest chip on the board and the two on the right that I think are optocouplers show burning too, along with the resistors near the lower optocoupler. I can also see that it goes to the stop switch. I do not see any damage going up to the big chip on the board but who knows. I'm guessing that one would be a deal breaker if it is damaged.
I could probably fix it, but you sure are a long way from home.
If the 28 pin chip is not fried then easy to fix, otherwise you need to find a new board from someone.
Pull out the main motor board and look for burnt tracks. I know which model you have now.
Seen this thread?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/syil_p...g_syil_x3.html
You want circuits? Here they are. Not really sure which is the correct front panel board circuit.
There are 3 circuits here. One on the bottom pdf and click on the pictures for the other two.
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
So it sounds like you can't just buy a replacement board? I'd rather not go through repairing parts and find that it still doesn't work. I have a 1/2 hp dc motor made for small wood lathes. It looks likes a good fit inside the machine. The power may be a little low but it should work for now.
If I like the machine I would put a better motor in it.
In the mean time if you need a controller for the DC motor, ebay 160930056811
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Go with what Al says. It is a good motor. Mine has done over 2000 hours. At $29 and Al knows his stuff, too, as long as it is a brushless DC driver.
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
Show us a picture of you motor control board.
I am almost certain it is a brushless DC (BLDC) motor and the KBIC-120 won't work if it is a BLDC motor. !!!
I could not find any boards on that site to suit the BLDC motor.
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
It is a brushless DC motor. Yesterday I put a 1/2 hp DC motor in the machine. Today I hope to test it out. So far it seem under powered.
I really like the idea of putting a vfd and 3 phase motor on the machine. Only thing I'm not sure about is if the original breakout board can control a vfd. I have used vfd's on two 3 phase machines in my shop.
I'll do some testing and let you know if it works.
Don't worry about controlling it.
You manually start it after doing a manual tool change.
At simplest, just on-off control is quite adequate.
Your tool change line is followed by a Sxxx for speed setting.
You just start, set the speed, and hit cycle start, as I do now.
If you have a tool changer, then speed control becomes a desirable function.
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
No tool changer yet. Manual on will work fine for now.
Ran some test cuts and my cheap motor controller overloaded and stopped in the middle of a cut. Tried my so called good motor controller and it makes the machine sound like it has really bad splines in the quill. This causes the finish to be really rough. I know it has nothing to do with the rest of the machine because before the first motor controller kicked out it was cutting nice. A little underpowered but nice.
I need more power. 1/2 hp is not going yo cut it. Maybe I should go back to getting the original motor working. If I bought a motor power supply board from grizzly tools that should work with the push button control board I got from grizzly. If I replace those two things I wonder if my original brushless motor would run?
Re the KB, I was going by the 1/2hp motor you had as a spare and assumed it was brushed DC?Originally Posted by bret4
If you need a controller for the Seig BLDC, the A-M-C range works, if you get one with the AC suffix, it means works direct off AC rather than needing a P.S.
I have ran the Seig motor off of a 240VAC version as the motor is rated for higher than the 120v it is usually ran on in N.A.
With the A-M-C they are 10v analogue input, so you can run them off Mach using one of the available PWM - analogue convertors, or there are some simple circuits around that will do the trick.
Another issue with the Seig motor is it is a 2 pole motor, at least the one I have is, this limits the lower rpm torque drastically, this is why many complain of this symptom.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Al, yes the motor I put in was dc. The original motor is the brushless motor. I wonder if it would be cost effective to use the stock brushless motor or if I am better off going with something else that would give me better power across a wider range? Most of the heavy cutting I would like to do would be with a 1/2" carbide end mill 1/8" deep in aluminum at 10-20ipm. I'm thinking a 3/4-1 hp 3 phase motor with vfd may get the job done. Only problem is at anything lower than around 600 rpm could be a little slow for a fan cooled motor. Maybe I could add an extra fan for cooling the motor.
Here is a 3 phase motor that I am thinking of.
MTR-001-3BD36 | 1 hp AC Induction Motor: rolled steel, 56C, 3600 RPM
Then maybe a TECO N3 drive or maybe this one.
GS2-11P0
This motor is big but I know I can make it fit. Should give me enough power and maybe the weight will help dampen vibration.
Any thoughts?
Bret4,
The Sieg BLDC with 1:1 pulley at 3600 RPM has heaps of power up to about a 20mm cutter.
Low end torque more than adequate, as the BLDC does a proper reduction of voltage for low speed, and will give much better low end performance than a VFD.
I can tap 1/2" in ali and 3/8" in steel even with the pulley reduction.
The A-M-C B25A20AC would give top performance from the Sieg motor, making sure the current limit was set to the motor ratings and as Al says, no power supplies needed, just like the Sieg one - straight off 120vAC.
There is a 240v version also - B30A40AC. I have never used these drivers, and the only issue setting up is getting the hall sensor phasing correct. There is a simple procedure to get that right and I can describe it if required.
You may even find you can tap 1/2" in steel with the 1:1 pulley ratio. Bottom end torque with a good BLDC is useable right down to zero speed.
The stupid Sieg controller won't go below 200 RPM (1:1 pulley).
Using the original motor just with a front panel speed pot and f/r switch will work fine, optionally being able to run from you existing BOB for speed and direction control.
From the circuits I gave earlier, it is easy to figure out the connections, and the hall sensor connections (but not the phasing) is obvious.
You can go from forward to reverse without stopping if current limit is set correctly, without overloading motor.
I cut 10mm carbide at +3000 RPM in steel very often.
Much more power than the Sieg motor and you will have exceeded the stiffness of the machine and chatter will become a problem.
You can easily send signals to the Sieg speed display, but it won't display above 3000 RPM, -- so what. Mine says 1800 for 3600. Stupid design again.
Can't remember the exact frequencies it reads, but it is just like a tacho, and can display direction as well. Usually survives the short circuit from front panel removal.
Neil
Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!
If you do decide to go with a 3ph motor and VFD, I would suggest a 4 pole motor, rather than the 2 pole shown.
On the A-M-C BLDC drives, the nice thing is they will control a DC brushed equally as well.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
I've been doing a lot of reading on the AMC drives and it seems they are just to expensive. Around $500 and up. I could buy a new power board for the mill for less. Everything I am reading seems like it would be the easiest thing to do is buy the power board from Grizzly and I already have the control board with the start stop buttons from grizzly. I really like what Niel said about the power of his machine and how long the stock motor has lasted.
Now, I need to make sure that if I get the grizzly board that it will be all I need to swap out the old control parts. I hope the motor I have is the same as the one used in the new grizzly SX3 machine. It just seems that this would be the least painless path to get the machine up and running.
So here is the Grizzly parts page. Any idea if I replace my motor board/inverter with their "P0619220A - MOTOR PC BOARD/INVERTER V2.04.07" and use their "P0619028A - CONTROL PANEL PC BOARD V2.04.07" to get my machine up and running again if that is all I would need to order from them? I would think the wires I have would be fine. I know the new control board that goes in the head with the start stop buttons does not work with my inverter board. I'm guessing that they moved the chips that were on the control board in the head to the inverter board. At least I hope that would come with the inverter board.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0619/parts/BASE
I see on the grizzly parts list there is a part "P0619220-1A S CAPACITOR 1000/1200M 250V V2.04.07" I wonder if this is needed too. If it is they do not have that in stock. They sure don't make this easy. Maybe this is the power board that is on the back of my inverter board. Wonder if I could use the one I have? I'll have to look again but I thought that was not just a plug in part.
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