The myth of aptitude simplicity
Paul Johnson
> I think you'd be much better off forgoing apt-get and using an
> interactive package tool instead such as aptitude. Proper use of such a
> tool will make it much easier to keep your package system in stable
> state.
Why does everybody keep saying this when it's false? Aptitude and
apt-get are getting thier information from the same place and making
the same decisions. Both tell you quite specifically what is going on
before it asks you to commit to it. Nobody has yet demonstrated on
the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
"But aptitude's a front end to apt!" No, apt is a front end to dpkg,
and aptitude is a replacement to dselect when using apt as a source.
--
.''`. Baloo <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than to fix a system
Russell
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 02:29:39PM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote:
>
>>I think you'd be much better off forgoing apt-get and using an
>>interactive package tool instead such as aptitude. Proper use of such a
>>tool will make it much easier to keep your package system in stable
>>state.
>
>
> Why does everybody keep saying this when it's false? Aptitude and
> apt-get are getting thier information from the same place and making
> the same decisions. Both tell you quite specifically what is going on
> before it asks you to commit to it. Nobody has yet demonstrated on
> the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
> you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
>
> "But aptitude's a front end to apt!" No, apt is a front end to dpkg,
> and aptitude is a replacement to dselect when using apt as a source.
I tried aptitude. Couldn't figure out how to specify
stable/testing/unstable packages. Can it do that?
--
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Steve Lamb
Russell <rjs...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> I tried aptitude. Couldn't figure out how to specify
> stable/testing/unstable packages. Can it do that?
In interactive mode, v. v shows you all (v)ersions of the package
available and you can decide which to install.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
| -- Lenny Nero - Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
Steve Lamb
Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Why does everybody keep saying this when it's false? Aptitude and
> apt-get are getting thier information from the same place and making
> the same decisions. Both tell you quite specifically what is going on
> before it asks you to commit to it. Nobody has yet demonstrated on
> the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
> you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
Alrighty. Automatic flag. :) There, ya got it.
> "But aptitude's a front end to apt!" No, apt is a front end to dpkg,
> and aptitude is a replacement to dselect when using apt as a source.
No, aptitude is a front end for apt. In fact you can use aptitude much
the same was as apt. Ex:
Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] aptitude [options] <action> ...
Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode):
install - Install/upgrade packages
remove - Remove packages
purge - Remove packages and their configuration files
hold - Place packages on hold
So we can do apt-get install or aptitude install. Difference is aptitude
tracks what it has installed for you and when the calling package(s) is remove
any package marked auto which no longer has dependencies against it is also
removed.
Paul Johnson
> > before it asks you to commit to it. Nobody has yet demonstrated on
> > the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
> > you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
>
> Alrighty. Automatic flag. :) There, ya got it.
Nope, no good. aptitude's automatic flagging is the same as apt's
default behaviour, last I checked.
> So we can do apt-get install or aptitude install. Difference is
> aptitude tracks what it has installed for you and when the calling
> package(s) is remove any package marked auto which no longer has
> dependencies against it is also removed.
OK, that's the only thing so far.
Alex Malinovich
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 02:29:39PM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote:
> > I think you'd be much better off forgoing apt-get and using an
> > interactive package tool instead such as aptitude. Proper use of such a
> > tool will make it much easier to keep your package system in stable
> > state.
>
> apt-get are getting thier information from the same place and making
> the same decisions. Both tell you quite specifically what is going on
> the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
> you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
>
> and aptitude is a replacement to dselect when using apt as a source.
Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
But for just installing or finding a single package, I really don't see
the point in starting up any frontend when I can just do "apt-cache
search searchstring" & "apt-get install package".
On a completely unrelated note, Baloo, I don't know if this is your
doing or Evolution's, but your signature was automatically taken out
when I hit reply. The only thing that was shown was the message. If it
was your doing, how do you do it? :)
-Alex
Steve Lamb
Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 09:21:49PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > Alrighty. Automatic flag. :) There, ya got it.
> Nope, no good. aptitude's automatic flagging is the same as apt's
> default behaviour, last I checked.
> > So we can do apt-get install or aptitude install. Difference is
> > aptitude tracks what it has installed for you and when the calling
> > package(s) is remove any package marked auto which no longer has
> > dependencies against it is also removed.
> OK, that's the only thing so far.
Erm you do realize you just contradicted yourself? :)
That's pretty huge in my book. The first time I saw libraries uninstalled
with the package that got them installed in the first place I thought, "How
freaking cool is that!" Sure keeps the cruft down.
The interactive mode alone is a godsend. Sure I can try to resolve
conflicts with apt-get but it is a serious PITA. I can also upgrade/downgrade
with apt-get but it, too, is a PITA. Aptitude just enter interactive mode
look for the package I want to up/down grade, hit v to see what versions are
available and select from there. I don't need to know what version numbers
there are nor which versions are associated with what tree.
Dependency resolution is easier with aptitude. See something is wrong on
an aptitude install run, abort it at the prompt, enter interactive, find the
package I wanted to install, hit r. All requirements on that package are
there. If nothing conflicts there hit d and check again.
What else is nice. Oh, interactive mode again, Categorical Browser.
Sometimes I know the task I want to install but not what tools are available
and certainly don't want to wade through 200+ lines of apt-cache search output
because they keywords I am thinking of are too vague.
About the only thing I miss from apt proper is apt-cache search.
Supposedly there is a way for aptitude to search names and descriptions but I
have not stumbled on it yet.
Paul Johnson
> Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
> maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
> sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
> Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
> cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
Actually, I know what you mean.
> But for just installing or finding a single package, I really don't see
> the point in starting up any frontend when I can just do "apt-cache
> search searchstring" & "apt-get install package".
Same here.
> On a completely unrelated note, Baloo, I don't know if this is your
> doing or Evolution's, but your signature was automatically taken out
> when I hit reply. The only thing that was shown was the message. If it
> was your doing, how do you do it? :)
That's evolution's. Many mailers will do this automagically if the
person you're responding to does the right thing and breaks thier
message with two dashes, a space and a newline, like you see below.
If your mailer and newsreader don't do this automatically for you,
just add it to the top of your .signature file.
Steve Lamb
Alex Malinovich <demo...@the-love-shack.net> wrote:
> But for just installing or finding a single package, I really don't see
> the point in starting up any frontend when I can just do "apt-cache
> search searchstring" & "apt-get install package".
You're right.
aptitude install package
aptitude search searchstring
And I agree with you about finding dselect easy to use (which I never did)
and aptitude hard when, in general, they use the same keys. + to install, -
to remove, _ to purge. h is hold (dunno if that is in dselect), and instead
of remembering "ok, Q to get back to the menu"... or was it Z? Anyway, "g"
for.... go! Go, do it now, go!
Alan Chandler
Hash: SHA1
On Sunday 16 Feb 2003 9:38 am, Steve Lamb wrote:
> About the only thing I miss from apt proper is apt-cache search.
> Supposedly there is a way for aptitude to search names and descriptions but
> I have not stumbled on it yet.
To search for package names hit '/' followed by characters. It interactively
searches for a match anywhere in the package name string. If it hasn't found
what you want hit return to save the search string and then '\' to repeat the
search. It will loop round when it gets to the end. [ie its just like
dselect]
- --
Alan Chandler
al...@chandlerfamily.org.uk
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Alan Chandler
Hash: SHA1
On Sunday 16 Feb 2003 5:22 am, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:32:13 +1100
>
> Russell <rjs...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> > I tried aptitude. Couldn't figure out how to specify
> > stable/testing/unstable packages. Can it do that?
>
> In interactive mode, v. v shows you all (v)ersions of the package
> available and you can decide which to install.
only if your apt-source lines already have unstable, testing and stable in
them.
- --
Alan Chandler
al...@chandlerfamily.org.uk
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Alan Chandler
Hash: SHA1
On Sunday 16 Feb 2003 9:36 am, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
> maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
> sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
> Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
> cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
I actually used to use dselect for everything, but have recently switched over
to aptitude after forcing myself to use it for a while to see how it worked.
I don't think I'll go back now as I have found out to everything I could do
in dselect and more with aptitude.
The only thing that I use apt-get for is for situations at the moment. With
only half of KDE3.1 in sid, aptititude would remove kmail etc if I let it, so
if a really need to install the odd single package I use apt-get. Normally I
wouldn't though.
- --
Alan Chandler
al...@chandlerfamily.org.uk
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Michael P. Soulier
> Why does everybody keep saying this when it's false? Aptitude and
> apt-get are getting thier information from the same place and making
> the same decisions. Both tell you quite specifically what is going on
> before it asks you to commit to it. Nobody has yet demonstrated on
> the list anything that you can do in aptitude easier or faster than
> you can with some combination of apt-file, apt-cache and apt-get.
>
> "But aptitude's a front end to apt!" No, apt is a front end to dpkg,
> and aptitude is a replacement to dselect when using apt as a source.
I couldn't agree more. I am not impressed by the interactive tools at all.
apt-get, apt-cache are why I use Debian. If they're deprecated then we have a
problem. Both dselect and aptitude make me suffer from information overload.
apt-get gives me what I need, when I need it.
One of the best things about apt-get is that removals trace dependencies,
so if I want to remove all X packages, all I have to do is apt-get remove on a
base X library, and _everything_ that depends on X transitively will be
removed. There isn't a distribution around that has that functionality.
I implore the developers to focus on apt.
Mike
--
Michael P. Soulier <msou...@digitaltorque.ca>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort." -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
HTML Email Considered Harmful: http://expita.com/nomime.html
Michael P. Soulier
> Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
> maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
> sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
> Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
> cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
I'm afraid of dselect. Every time I try to use it, it insists on
installing a bunch of crap that I didn't ask for.
Michael P. Soulier
> What if you want to honor a package's "Recommends" field with apt-get?
> That'll take some extra effort that isn't necessary with aptitude. Or
> what if you want to automatically remove the dependencies a package
> pulled in when you delete that package? Pretty tricky to do with
> apt-get. Also, apt-get cannot provide user interaction to resolve a
> tricky conflict and instead will just give up, leaving the user confused
> as to what went wrong.
Unfortunately I find the interface to aptitude so mystifying that it
leaves me confused as to how to use it.
Alaa The Great
"Michael P. Soulier" <msou...@digitaltorque.ca> wrote:
> One of the best things about apt-get is that removals trace
> dependencies,
> so if I want to remove all X packages, all I have to do is apt-get
> remove on a base X library, and _everything_ that depends on X
> transitively will be removed. There isn't a distribution around that
> has that functionality.
you can do the same thing in Mandrake using urpme, I'm sure Suse and
the rest have some way to do this.
cheers,
Alaa
--
get my PGP/GPG signature at
http://www.geocities.com/alaaov/pub_key.txt
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we
ourselves possess.
-- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"]
Alex Malinovich
> On 16/02/03 Alex Malinovich did speaketh:
>
> > Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
> > maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
> > sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
> > Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
> > cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
>
> I'm afraid of dselect. Every time I try to use it, it insists on
> installing a bunch of crap that I didn't ask for.
Actually, this is primarily the reason that I like dselect. That list of
"crap" is all of the recommends and suggests that are present in the
package. A few years ago, I would have said this to be unnecessary, but
with the Debian repository having how many thousands of packages now,
there's really no way to know about all of the cool new things available
all the time. I think the rationale behind it is that if, for example,
you're installing cdrecord, you'd probably also want a front end for it.
apt-get will just install it and then go away. dselect (and I'd imagine
aptitude as well, to give it its fair credit :) will show you xcdroast
because it's suggested by cdrecord.
Generally speaking, if you just want to install a single package with no
fuss, or if you want to upgrade all of your packages with no fuss, you
use apt-get. (I'd also strongly suggest taking a look at apt-listchanges
for seeing what's new with stuff.) If you want to see what all the new
available stuff is, then you go with a frontend like dselect or
aptitude. Personally, I find aptitude very counter-intuitive, but then
again, this could be due to how I expect things to work in dselect. (I
felt the same way about dselect when I first started using it. :)
--
Alex
Steve Lamb
"Michael P. Soulier" <msou...@digitaltorque.ca> wrote:
> One of the best things about apt-get is that removals trace
> dependencies, so if I want to remove all X packages, all I have to do is
> apt-get remove on a base X library, and _everything_ that depends on X
> transitively will be removed. There isn't a distribution around that has
> that functionality.
And with Aptitude watching what is installed automatically things are done
logically. So you can remove everything with X by removing a base directory.
Yay. Same thing with apt. But does apt remove the libraries when all X
things that depend upon it are removed? No.
The developers /are/ focusing on apt, it is called aptitude. This is
frustrating when people are nay-saying it are doing so for reasons that are
unfounded.
For the third time in this discussion, aptitude doesn't have to be
interactive. Look!
{grey@teleute:~} apt-get --help
apt 0.5.4 for linux i386 compiled on Aug 19 2001 01:02:26
Usage: apt-get [options] command
apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and
installing packages. The most frequently used commands are update
and install.
Commands:
update - Retrieve new lists of packages
upgrade - Perform an upgrade
install - Install new packages (pkg is libc6 not libc6.deb)
remove - Remove packages
source - Download source archives
build-dep - Configure build-dependencies for source packages
dist-upgrade - Distribution upgrade, see apt-get(8)
dselect-upgrade - Follow dselect selections
clean - Erase downloaded archive files
autoclean - Erase old downloaded archive files
check - Verify that there are no broken dependencies
{grey@teleute:~} aptitude --help
aptitude 0.2.11.1
Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] aptitude [options] <action> ...
Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode):
install - Install/upgrade packages
remove - Remove packages
purge - Remove packages and their configuration files
hold - Place packages on hold
unhold - Cancel a hold command for a package
markauto - Mark packages as having been automatically installed
unmarkauto - Mark packages as having been manually installed
update - Download lists of new/upgradable packages
upgrade - Perform a safe upgrade
dist-upgrade - Perform an upgrade, possibly installing and removing packages
forget-new - Forget what packages are "new"
search - Search for a package by name and/or expression
clean - Erase downloaded package files
autoclean - Erase old downloaded package files
download - Download the .deb file for a package
Let's look at the similarities:
apt-get install
aptitude install
apt-get remove
aptitude remove
apt-get clean
aptitude clean
apt-get autoclean
aptitude autoclean
apt-get update
aptitude update
apt-get upgrade
aptitude upgrade
apt-get dist-upgrade
aptitude upgrade
apt-get source
aptitude download
Wow, so far on the most common operations one word has changed. So I ask,
why is everyone who is talking about apt-get getting so pissy about aptitude
when it pretty much does everything apt-get (and apt-cache) does in almost the
exact same manner? Because it does more? It does things better? I don't get
this neo-ludditism when it comes to apt.
And I am by no means an apt expert. I only started using it a few weeks
ago and only found out about the command-line interface 2-3 days ago.
Steve Lamb
Alan Chandler <al...@chandlerfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> On Sunday 16 Feb 2003 5:22 am, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > In interactive mode, v. v shows you all (v)ersions of the package
> > available and you can decide which to install.
> only if your apt-source lines already have unstable, testing and stable in
> them.
Hence the words "...all versions of the package available..." If the
sources aren't in the sources.list file then they are not available. Same as
apt-get.
Steve Lamb
Alan Chandler <al...@chandlerfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> To search for package names hit '/' followed by characters. It
> interactively searches for a match anywhere in the package name string. If
> it hasn't found what you want hit return to save the search string and then
> '\' to repeat the search. It will loop round when it gets to the end. [ie
> its just like dselect]
Nono, I meant from the command line with aptitude search. If I do
"apt-cache search browser www" I get all packages which have both browser and
www in their name or description. If I try "aptitude search browser www" I
get packages that match either www or browser.
Nathan E Norman
> On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 08:37, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> > On 16/02/03 Alex Malinovich did speaketh:
> >
> > > Personally, I generally stick to apt-get and apt-cache for most of my
> > > maintenance work. But I'll never give up dselect. Aptitude makes no
> > > sense to me whatsoever. dselect just makes everything really simple.
> > > Though, from what I understand, I'm more likely to get odd, unbelieving,
> > > cross-eyed glances than "Me too's!" for that. :)
> >
> > I'm afraid of dselect. Every time I try to use it, it insists on
> > installing a bunch of crap that I didn't ask for.
>
> Actually, this is primarily the reason that I like dselect. That list of
> "crap" is all of the recommends and suggests that are present in the
> package. A few years ago, I would have said this to be unnecessary, but
> with the Debian repository having how many thousands of packages now,
> there's really no way to know about all of the cool new things available
> all the time. I think the rationale behind it is that if, for example,
> you're installing cdrecord, you'd probably also want a front end for it.
> apt-get will just install it and then go away. dselect (and I'd imagine
> aptitude as well, to give it its fair credit :) will show you xcdroast
> because it's suggested by cdrecord.
There's one problem: dselect is retarded WRT "Recommends". That is,
when dselect pops up the "Conflict Resolution" screen with all the
"Suggests" and "Recommends" pre-selected, you are free to peruse that
list and de-select (I hate that word in conjunction with dselect) any
packages which you decide you really don't need (for example some huge
doc package). If that package was a Suggested one, no problem.
However, if it was Recommended dselect pitches a fit and takes you
back to the resolution screen with that package again pre-selected for
you. Annoying. Fortunately, you can tell dselect "No really, I want
you to not install package foo" by typing 'Q' to exit the resolution
screen, but it's still a PITA.
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:nno...@incanus.net
Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me
and I'll understand.
-- Chinese Proverb
Joey Hess
> What if you want to honor a package's "Recommends" field with apt-get?
> That'll take some extra effort that isn't necessary with aptitude. Or
> what if you want to automatically remove the dependencies a package
> pulled in when you delete that package? Pretty tricky to do with
> apt-get. Also, apt-get cannot provide user interaction to resolve a
> tricky conflict and instead will just give up, leaving the user confused
> as to what went wrong.
A property aptitude unfortunatly shares more or less.
> Aptitude can do some pretty neat tricks too. For example, you can
> duplicate the functionality of deborphan (without having to periodically
> re-run it a la deborphan) by simply running aptitude, opening "Installed
> Packages", moving the cursor down to "libs", and typing 'M' as in
> shift-m.
Now that is a neat trick I never thought of! Thanks.
> I don't buy the claims that aptitude is more intuitive or user-friendly
> than dselect, but it's certainly a powerful tool in its own right.
It wins on user-friendlyness since it uses fairly standard controls. And
has pull-down menus so you can learn it as you go. It's not exactly easy
to learn though.
--
see shy jo
Joey Hess
> About the only thing I miss from apt proper is apt-cache search.
> Supposedly there is a way for aptitude to search names and descriptions but I
> have not stumbled on it yet.
It works much like mutt with ~l sequences to tell it what field to look
in.
/~mJoey Hess
/~dsomething in the description
You can also use the same stuff in limits.
--
see shy jo
Michael P. Soulier
> Actually, this is primarily the reason that I like dselect. That list of
> "crap" is all of the recommends and suggests that are present in the
> package. A few years ago, I would have said this to be unnecessary, but
> with the Debian repository having how many thousands of packages now,
> there's really no way to know about all of the cool new things available
> all the time. I think the rationale behind it is that if, for example,
> you're installing cdrecord, you'd probably also want a front end for it.
> apt-get will just install it and then go away. dselect (and I'd imagine
> aptitude as well, to give it its fair credit :) will show you xcdroast
> because it's suggested by cdrecord.
A perfect example. I don't like xcdroast, I use cdrecord on its own. Most
of the time I want the bare minimum. And a lot of what it wanted to install,
literally, was not what I had asked for. It was trying to upgrade my system,
but I did not want it upgraded at that time, and there didn't seem to be a
good way to tell it to just "do what I say". I don't have that problem with
apt-get.
> Generally speaking, if you just want to install a single package with no
> fuss, or if you want to upgrade all of your packages with no fuss, you
> use apt-get. (I'd also strongly suggest taking a look at apt-listchanges
> for seeing what's new with stuff.) If you want to see what all the new
> available stuff is, then you go with a frontend like dselect or
> aptitude. Personally, I find aptitude very counter-intuitive, but then
> again, this could be due to how I expect things to work in dselect. (I
> felt the same way about dselect when I first started using it. :)
I usually just
apt-get -su upgrade
if I want to see what's available.
Colin Watson
> There's one problem: dselect is retarded WRT "Recommends".
You mean "was", nowadays. dpkg 1.10 fixed this long-standing bug.
--
Colin Watson [cjwa...@flatline.org.uk]
Joey Hess
> Nono, I meant from the command line with aptitude search. If I do
> "apt-cache search browser www" I get all packages which have both browser and
> www in their name or description. If I try "aptitude search browser www" I
> get packages that match either www or browser.
At the commnd line it is aptitude search '~d(browser|www)'
--
see shy jo
Bruce Sass
> There's one problem: dselect is retarded WRT "Recommends". That is,
<...>
> you. Annoying. Fortunately, you can tell dselect "No really, I want
> you to not install package foo" by typing 'Q' to exit the resolution
> screen, but it's still a PITA.
I would say persistent rather than retarded.
Dselect works best if you have a good grasp of the packaging system,
and consequently know when to use "Q" or "X" and when to fall back to
dpkg -i...
- Bruce
Steve Lamb
Joey Hess <jo...@debian.org> wrote:
> At the commnd line it is aptitude search '~d(browser|www)'
Ah. ~ for where to search, d for descripton, (|) for the grouping and or?
Nathan E Norman
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 02:52:33PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
> > There's one problem: dselect is retarded WRT "Recommends".
>
You're correct; unfortunately version 1.10 is not in stable, which is
the version most new users will/should be installing.
In any case, I meant no offense to the dpkg or dselect developers :-)
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:nno...@incanus.net
A booming voice says, "Wrong, cretin!", and you notice that
you have turned into a pile of dust.
Steve Lamb
Bruce Sass <bs...@edmc.net> wrote:
> I would say persistent rather than retarded.
Retarded. The machine is not more intelligent than I am.
> Dselect works best if you have a good grasp of the packaging system,
> and consequently know when to use "Q" or "X" and when to fall back to
> dpkg -i...
I prefer going into aptitude's configuration and telling it to not select
suggests and recommends automatically. If I want a package installed *I* will
install it. If it isn't required it has no business being on the machine
unless I expressly put it there. The tools should be able to conform to that
preference. If they can not, they are retarded, not persistent.
Paul Johnson
> I'm afraid of dselect. Every time I try to use it, it insists on
> installing a bunch of crap that I didn't ask for.
Well, that's because it also installs reccommends. Some folks prefer
that.
Rob Weir
> On 16/02/03 Brian Nelson did speaketh:
>
> > That'll take some extra effort that isn't necessary with aptitude. Or
> > what if you want to automatically remove the dependencies a package
> > pulled in when you delete that package? Pretty tricky to do with
> > apt-get. Also, apt-get cannot provide user interaction to resolve a
> > tricky conflict and instead will just give up, leaving the user confused
> > as to what went wrong.
>
> leaves me confused as to how to use it.
It always seemed kinda logical...A tree of trees, with the packages as
leaves. Hit enter on a package to see more detail about it; you can see
it's dependencies (and modify them), see which versions are available
and select them, etc, etc...Sure beats dselect, at least :)
--
Rob Weir <rw...@ertius.org> http://ertius.org/
Rob Weir
> On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:50:16 -0500
> Joey Hess <jo...@debian.org> wrote:
> > At the commnd line it is aptitude search '~d(browser|www)'
>
> Ah. ~ for where to search, d for descripton, (|) for the grouping and or?
Yes.
Jeff Elkins
aptitude would remove dependencies when a metapackage was selected for
deletion. That didn't work for me. I installed the kdelibs metapackage then
attempted to delete it --- 'aptitude remove kdelibs' removed the 45Kb
metapackage, but not the underlying programs.
Is there a flag I missed?
Jeff Elkins
http://www.elkins.org
Steve Lamb
Jeff Elkins <jeffe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I forget who said it, but someone said (if I understood correctly) that
> aptitude would remove dependencies when a metapackage was selected for
> deletion. That didn't work for me. I installed the kdelibs metapackage then
> attempted to delete it --- 'aptitude remove kdelibs' removed the 45Kb
> metapackage, but not the underlying programs.
> Is there a flag I missed?
It is the auto flag. From what I can tell (IANAAE) the auto flag is added
whenever aptitude installed a package as a requirement from another package.
One can also add the auto flag to any package that they desire. The behavior
I have observed is that any package with the auto flag which is no longer a
dependency to any other package is removed.
So in the case chances are that there is a package or packages which are
dependant on those libs which is why they weren't removed. That or the auto
flag wasn't set. I am unsure on how aptitude would handle cross-dependant
packages which are both set to auto.
Alex Malinovich
> On 16/02/03 Paul Johnson did speaketh:
>
> > Well, that's because it also installs reccommends. Some folks prefer
> > that.
>
> Partly, but it's also because it tries to upgrade my whole system, when
> all I wanted to do was install a single package.
Actually, if you'll recall my initial message, I said that I use apt-get
for single packages and dselect for upgrades for this very reason. :)
Besides, if I just want to install a package there's really no point in
starting up dselect to do it. But for updating my entire system, there's
no better way that I've seen to keep an eye on what's being changed,
what's available, and what will and won't work. Dependency conflicts are
a pain to resolve when using apt-get, primarily because you have to do
it all by hand. dselect OTOH shows you which packages are involved and
where the problem lies.
Coincidentally, in regards to using aptitude for all of the above, I'm
sure that it can do all of the things that dselect can do, and probably
more, but it has a rather steep learning curve for those of use who have
been using dselect for a long time. It looks enough like dselect to
encourage you to use it the same way, only it doesn't work that way. :)
But for a new user who's not used to either I'd imagine it wouldn't be
any more difficult than learning dselect right off the bat.
--
Alex