Destroyed my Honjo hammered fender tonite

So I was on my way home from work. Rolled up to a stop sign, came to
pretty much a complete stop (but no foot down), saw it was clear and
started to pedal through. Halfway out into the lane i felt my rear
tire jam and I came to an instant halt, throwing me off the seat and
feet to the ground. My bike was immobile and my planet bike blinky
that was screwed to my rear rack was now in pieces on the pavement and
cars were coming. So i drag the bike back to the side of the road just
as my blinky gets crushed by traffic. Now to asses the damage. My rear
fender was folded in half underneath itself, jamming the tire! Ripped
right off the bolt holding it to the fender stay. And also crushed in
one or two other places on that back half. I didn't have my camera
with me today so no pics. I had to pry the fender back out and rip off
the whole back half in order to make the bike rideable. I *think*
what might have happened was that the back bottom corner of my new
Ostrich pannier must of some how got caught in the wheel spokes? The
base of the pannier was loosely strapped to the fender stay to keep it
from flapping. I guess as the bag got pulled up by the rotating wheel,
it pulled up on the fender stay and the base of the fender caught the
tire and then folded under? It's the only thing I can think of and the
leather band across the base of the pannier has lost some stitching
and is separating from the bag.

So the honjo is completely toast. Time to look for new fenders and
figure out a way to better suspend the Ostrich, keeping it away from
the wheel. My nitto top rack obviously isn't doing it as-is. And
mental note... don't use fender stay for anything but mounting fenders.

I always worry about things like this with metal fenders. AWESOME it
didn't happen on the front wheel. This really freaks me out. No
quick release on the metal fenders - any one else freaked out about
the possibility of a high speed endo?

I think I'm going to get the Berthoud's.
But peter white is out of stock and wallbike is closed since they are
in new orleans and had to evacuate! Hope they are ok.
But darn the luck!
Haiwatha Cyclery might have them but i need to call to check their
stock.
Anyone know of anywhere else??? I don't want to be fenderless. :(
> --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Esteban <Proto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Esteban <Proto...@gmail.com>

If you can't find any in the US, you might try ordering directly from
Giles Berthoud:

http://www.gillesberthoud.fr/anglais/index1.php

I have done this with no problem.

Hiawatha has a pretty good selection of Berthoud's. Call Jim at 612
727-2565 or go to their web site a
www.hiawathacyclery.com

Cheers

Kevin

Patrick's right about the odds. As I'm mounting 50mm fluted honjos to
my Riv, there's plenty of room and I won't be worried. But my
Kogswell is pretty tight with 32s and 40mm fenders. Perhaps another
reason to sell it?

I think its worth being really careful with bags - lots of straps and
lashes that could do exactly what happened as described in the
original post.

The odds were working pretty well for me over the course of 25 years
of fenders with no quick release. On a slight downhill at a nice
clip a small stick of the perfect length, diameter and weight leapt up
off the pavement and jammed into my front fender but good. I watched
my front wheel destruct as I went over the handlebars and then turned
to watch my son as he was flung off the Trail-A-Bike behind me.

I can't stand the looks of the big clunky quick releases on my AHH
front fork but they are not coming off until a better QR is invented.
Stuff Happens.

Michael Kahrl
Columbus, OH

Thank you, Brian!
Everyone in the states seemed to be out of my size so I ordered
direct.
Any idea how long it should take to receive them?

How fast you receive them would depend on many factors, but I'll bet
you a fresh croissant that you'll get them faster than if you ordered
them from Amazon. I ordered some small parts and they showed up within
a couple of weeks.

Have to add my two cents. I had a set of Berthouds on my Rambouillet
until this spring. Out on a longish ride, approaching a stop sign, I
slowed down to check the cross-traffic...didn't see the smallish stick
in the road before running over it. It was apparently just the right
size to be picked up by the rear wheel. The fender folded quite
dramatically, bringing me to a screeching halt. Scared the hell out of
me because I realized how deadly it could've been if I'd lost control
at the intersection or if it had been my front tire or if I'd been
going fast, etc.

Brian

On Sep 3, 3:26 pm, "Michael Wise" <mishaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is Monday morning fenderbacking, I realize, but on the topic of
fenders and jamming and folding and safety...rather than bolting the
metal fenders to the eyelets, zip-tie them. Twine or wrap the zip-ties
will kangaroo hide cord or whatever it takes to hide the truth under
there, but don't write-off the zip-ties. I've done this, and I've
jammed a fender, and the zippers break right off so nicely. There may
be alternatives. A friend uses nylon bolts, figuring they're weak to
begin with and will break. I've heard of people (well, maybe ONE
person) cutting 80 percent through a bolt to make it a quick-releaser.
I think cutting 80 percent of the way thru a nylon bolt might be
overkill....as would cutting part thru a zip-tie.
The point is to get it to release under stress, while still holding
the fender rigidly. Someone out there in whatchamacallit land probably
has an even better idea...

Grant

IMO, tires with reflective sidewalls are a better solution than
plastic wheel reflectors. I know the blackwall + stripe look doesn't
necessarliy meet the Riv aesthetic, but I's rather be seen.

I'm kind of in the middle of starting installation of the fluted
Honjos - I'll see what I can do with Grant's recommendations - never
thought of that. Sounds pretty good - especially nylon bolts.

Let you all know how it goes...

On Sep 4, 12:57 pm, "Michael Wise" <mishaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:12 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Michael Wise <mishaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have noticed, like Patrick, that my hammered Honjo's don't dent as
easily as the SS Berthouds (that sounds oxymoronic). Another
observation is that they don't crack as easily.
That hasn't been my experience.
I do like the Berthoud fender stays better, mostly because of the
direct and lower profile attachment to the fender.
I hadn't noticed. Aren't Berthoud fender stays also 5mm in diameter?
It's funny you mention that as I may be coming full circle with my
future fender choice. When I started fendering my bicycles, I always
bought the sandwiched aluminum SKS ones and they worked OK. They
never looked super nice and occasionally, the Q/R releases would pop
off from a twig, a wheel change, or a clumsy person trying to get
their bike past mine at a bike rack. I'd grumble, pop the stays back
into place, and continue onward.

After reading lots of glowing reviews about the durability of SS
Berthouds, I bought a pair for my commuter. After a few hours of
installation, the fenders did look much nicer, worked pretty good at
keeping me dry, but had issues of their own.

First, they would easily dent. Secondly, if dented repeatedly, they
cracked. Third, I pulled a stick into the rear wheel and ripped the
fender attachments until it came around under the tire (not
necessarily the fender's fault). All this in one season.

Then, for my Riv, I bought hammered Honjos. They are noticeably
lighter, IMO look nicer, and seem to not dent as easy as Berthouds.
They may in fact be hiding the dents within the dents, but I really
can't see them even when up close. No cracking yet. Though, the
stays aren't as simple, light or as elegant as the Berthoud stays.

My greatest annoyance with metal fenders stems from a recent
modification to my Honjos in order to accomodate a 42mm tire. (I
initially set the fenders up to work perfectly with a 36mm tire and
wanted to try a 42mm)

I pulled the fenders, chopped every screw down to the minimum size,
filed every nut, rounded every corner, re-adjusted all the fender
spacing, installed, disassembled, re-installed, etc... for hours.

I then installed the 42mm tire and found the clearances still too
tight for my liking (not blaming the fenders). So, after all that, I
reinstalled the 36mm tires only to find that now my calipers (R556)
don't open as before. They wouldn't open wide enough to get my tire
through because the fender now sat too close to the brake arch when
the Q/R was open. With all of the bolts and nuts chopped down, and
being mostly unique hardware pieces; I'm out of luck to adjust
anything unless I mail order new parts and start all over again.

I wasted a beautiful weekend of my life messing with metal fenders;
mostly for vanity. If I had those SKS fenders on, I'd have just
adjusted an L-bracket, or cut some zip ties and would've been on the
road in a matter of minutes.

In my experience with SKS fenders, you'd be hard pressed to report any
major performance difference in comparison to Berthoud and Honjo's,
even with that water-damming interior brace.

And to compare the safety of these fenders; I think it's a crap-shoot.

As I've said, I ripped a Berthoud through the frame. I've popped the
Q/R on SKS fenders and ripped them from their zip-ties. This spring,
a friend pulled a stick into her spokes, into the stays, and her fork
swallowed part of her Honjo and spit the rest out to the side.
Luckily, she wasn't going fast.

In short, when I need to purchase another set of fenders, they'll be
plastic. I've decided the others aren't worth my time.

YMMV

John McMurry
Burlington, VT

John, if these Berthoud's don't work out, i'm going back to SKS
plastic fenders and give up the slight vanity difference.
The Honjos I was not impressed with other than looks.
My front fender was never straight. When looking at it from the
drivers seat, the end of it over the top of the wheel cocked to the
left. I guess that's what happens when they are handmade. As far as
durablity/feel i think they are pretty flimsy feeling. And finally,
they are really hard to adjust just right compared to the SKS. The
noise is another issue, but that's expected with metal fenders and it
can be worked out over time using different methods.
So we'll see how it goes.

What size sks do you use with 650b wheels?
Does another size work/look ok?

I like SKS but have yet to find a set that fit my 700 x 60 Schwalbe
big apples on my city bike. I use SKS on my camper which is set up
for 40 max and using 35s right now.

SKS are great - not long enough, though. Honjos vs. Berths - aluminum
vs. steel. Simple. Both work well and look great. Just different.
The metal fenders are indeed difficult to install - but isn't that the
fun of it?

Safety is an issue, of course - but there are all kinds of things that
can go wrong. A little care goes a long way.

I have only found them for 26" though. Maybe the 700s get snapped up
too fast.

On Sep 5, 10:18 am, "PATRICK MOORE" <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Heck no, not for me.
I'm not sure I understand. A little care towards what? I surely
don't aim for objects in the road.

My point wasn't to discourage use of fenders nor to insinuate that one
kind was safer than the other.

John McMurry
Burlington, VT