Need help with a tire swing

Any help or other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jack Rogers

The problem you will have is the 2 or 3 loops around the limb.
If just using one loop a simple slip knot will slide up the lenght
and tighten as tension is applied. Be warned... if you use this and there is a lot of
weight, the know will never be untied!
I hope this helps.

Harry's Happy Place
http://harryb41.homestead.com/HarrysHappyPlace.html

My Ebay Auctions
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=harryb41&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

>weight, the know,(KNOT), will never be untied!

I think I need to learn how to spell. Gosh!

How about leaving two long lengths and using those on either side of the
tire, plank ,what have you, that will form the seat? The wraps around the
limb should stop it slipping but you may have twisting problems with one
rope on one side of the branch and the other rope on the opposite side.

Larry

OOOPPSS......on second thoughts you may end up just swinging straight
towards the trunk this way!........OUCH!!!

Larry

Where can I get instructions on tying a good slip knot?

Thanks,
Jack

"Harry" <harr...@Yyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:drgcsv47b2aaad326...@4ax.com...

What type of rope is recommended for this sort of thing? I figure the
larger the rope, the less stress to the tree as more surface area should
lessen the tendency to cut into the limb. Also, a thicker rope would be
easier to hold on to and would be less likely to cause rope burns.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jack Rogers

news:i5sxb.16181$dt2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

> ... . I can get the rope over the limb

I'm very skeptical that 1) you can wrap the rope around the limb and then
move it (the "tensionless hitch" e.g., works precisely because of such
friction) and 2) that that would in any case protect the tree (the load
would STILL be borne into the tree on one side by the swing-loaded part,
and the wrapping if anything might strangle the limb).
.:. So, I'd scrap this idea.

Simply tie a loopknot to make a noose for the limb; OR, make an eye splice.
There are two directions, here: make the eye long enough so that it will
extend fully around the limb and through the bight, making the attachment
to the limb a larkshead/girth hitch (and splitting the load to two parts
around the limb), or to have the knot/splice eye end before the line goes
through the bight, yielding the traditional noose. While I can conceive
of an *offset* loopknot that would ensure smooth running around the limb,
let's hope that a simple Bowline suffices.

You might want to pad the eye tip--which will be rubbed by the line going
down to the swing--with something, like a piece of garden hose. Perhaps
you will also like to have some think line connnected to the eye with
which to haul down the loop & rope?!

As for what type of rope, hmmm, if you live around some fishermans place
of business, maybe you can land some used ground or mooring line. E.g.,
here's a light by strong copolymer line called "Polysteel", used by lobstermen
and others:

POLYSTEEL¨ Ropes are superior to manila rope and conventional polypropylene
mono filament rope in virtually every respect. Polysteel¨ ropes are produced
on a unique state-of the art computerized production line which monitors all
aspects of the manufacturing process to extremely tight tolerances from
fiber extrusion to the finished rope. The result is a rope of unsurpassed
quality and consistency. Polysteel¨ ropes are manufactured from extruded
copolymer (polypropylene and polyethylene) fibers whose unique properties
result in ropes that, size for size, are almost triple the strength of
traditional high quality manila rope of twice the strength of conventional
polypropylene rope. Not only are Polysteel¨ ropes far stronger, but they
weigh much less, making them easier to handle.

--dl*
====

ps: Please delete extraneous copy of msg.s from your reply posts--no need to
waste archive storage for that.

I don't live near the ocean. The only "fisherman" type rope I could get
would be ski rope. I'll check the internet and local hardware stores. The
rope nearest the tire probably needs to be as thick as possible, giving the
kids more to hang on to and causing less burn.

Jack

"Dan Lehman" <dan_l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6708e7b0.03112...@posting.google.com...

news:ftqxb.32484$oC5....@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com...

No. As I indicated, something like a bowline--a "fixed" loop/eye.
And this eye would not go around the tree, but around the standing
part of the rope. An eye splice would work best, as it has the
least bulk, and would pull past obstructions (i.e., go around the
limb and then past its own eye, as that eye drew up close to the
limb, nooselike. In this "through the eye" case, you would have
tied a Larkshead/Girth Hitch (Cow Hitch--but I prefer to use this
name for the knot in which only one end is loaded). I think that
the constriction of this structure around the limb would preclude
it from moving, but that might depend on the limb dia. & bark and
the rope material.

Ski rope you do NOT want--to thin, too vulnerable to wear & UV
degradation. Polyester best fits the need (or some Poly-Dac combo
--which means Polypropylene-Dacron(polyester)).

Just Google for "larkshead 'girth hitch' " and you should see the
general structure; the particular joining of the parts coming from
this structure is the issue of eye splice or bowline or some other
loopknot.

The suggestion to tie the heaving (fishing) line to the "center" of
the swing rope implies a very long swing rope--doubled, it would need
to go from the ground up & over the tree and back down, both sides
able to be grasped: that's clearly excessive. As it is, you might
want three bits of cordage: the line to make the initial pass, by
which the swing line gets hauled over; the swing line; and some line
to tie to the other end of the swing line to pull it back down after
tying the loopknot.
--or finding an arborist willing to do the job *aloft*.

(-;

[Yes, and as that msg. is already in the archives, another copy
is an unwanted waste of space!]-:

You may be asking the impossible. If not
damaging the tree is at all important,
none of the methods proposed so far will
work. Any solution that involves wrapping
a rope around a branch will kill the branch.
It will either slide and wear through the bark,
or, if tight enough to avoid that, it will
constrict the branch and kill it. Worse,
they are mostly tough on the rope, and
may result in a surprise break from wear
or hidden rot.

This subject has been discussed here several times.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rope+swing+branch+group:rec.crafts.knots&num=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&filter=0

If that link is too long, go to
http://groups.google.com and
click on advanced search, then search
for
rope swing branch
in
rec.crafts.knots

I think you will have to deputize a tree climber
to install a non-damaging, long-lasting pivot
for the upper ends of the swing ropes.

--
--Pete
"Peter W. Meek" <pwm...@mail.msen.com>
http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/

Throw the rope over a small branch coming out of the large branch.
Tie a loop and put the other end through to draw up a running loop to
the small branch as an anchor point. Next, throw the rope end over
the main branch several times and then attach the tire.

As you can see from this diagram, the small anchor branch should see
only negligible force if you have enough wraps:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/friction.html

The main branch will take the force and torque. As you swing, the
rope should only wrap and unwrap over a small angle around the main
branch and thus minimize rubbing and wear.

Again, I'm not an arborist, but if you really wanted to go crazy, you
could use flat webbing to distribute the force over a wider area.

Cheers,
roo

For reference, about running loops:
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/bowline.html

I'm now thinking that a simple and somewhat safe method will be to pull the
center of the rope over the limb. Create a loop, then pass the two ends
through. I'm then thinking of tying each end into separate eyebolts,
drilled into the tire. If one rope breaks, hopefully friction will not
allow the whole thing to come crashing down, though it might still come
down. Obviously, if the rope breaks near the limb, the swing would come
down pretty quickly.

Also, I would think this would be stronger than having only one rope coming
down from the tree. I would also think that this loop method would not
weaken the rope as much as most knots and it would cover more surface area
of the limb, causing less damage to the limb.

The method you described would probably be the best method for the health of
the limb as the weight tugging on the rope is distributed through the coils
around the limb. In the method I've described, the weight would mostly be
distributed through the 2 tops of the rope, which would be pulling down on
the limb. Some weight might be distributed at the loop, which would be snug
at the bottom of the limb. My method does have a drawback when replacing
the rope. It might be difficult to retrieve the rope, even after the tire
is removed. The friction caused by the loop might make it difficult to pull
the rope down. In your suggestion, the rope is easy to remove as long as
the second branch is easy to get to. Just untie the knot, cast my fishing
line over, and take the rope down the same way I got it up.

Any thoughts?

"roo" <rootw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c67d62.03120...@posting.google.com...

Could you tie a thin line to the centre of the main loop and then bind this
to one of the standing parts (the legs left hanging)? If you ever want to
remove the swing you could release the thin line and use it to pull on the
loop which will in turn free the main rope. Just a thought.

Larry

Just use one large rope if you're worried about breakage, and just
keep an eye out occasionally for fraying around contact points,
especially parts with severe curvature which will likely wear first
and be the points of highest stress.

If you wanted to be able to remove the rope without climbing the tree
again, tie a small cord around the running loop that is your "anchor"
that I described earlier. This will allow you to reverse the running
loop after you unwrap the rope.

Cheers,
roo

I had a rope swing in a walnut tree for my kids, for over 15 years, with
no damage to the tree. It's been down for 5 or 6 years, as my kids are
older. All I used was a 1" rope over a high limb with a crotch well away
from the trunk of the tree. I attached the tire with a clove hitch, a
single half-hitch and left about one foot of tail with a figure eight
knot. The kids would use the tail as a handle. The other end I just
terminated with a back-handed hitch (ABOK 1797), on a limb down low on
the tree that I could reach from the ground.

Don

Don

I'm a little unclear about the friction with the two ropes. Is the problem
just that with two ropes, it is all that more difficult to look for frayed
areas as now there are two ropes and a loop? Where with one rope, you
really only have to worry about the rope between the limb and the swing as
the rest of the rope gets less and less pull and wear?

Thanks,
Jack

Thanks,
Jack

"Don Murray" <d...@murrayranch.com> wrote in message
news:3FD65241...@murrayranch.com...

Before I get to the two-rope issue, I want to give you a little
warning about having your anchor point on a location off the branch.
Let's exaggerate and say that your branch could move in various
directions 12 inches due to the weight of the child or windstorms,
etc. We know due to friction, your anchor line won't slide, so your
anchor side will try to resist any motion of the branch, which could
induce a force significantly more than the initial 7 lbs in the
example I gave. So if you insist on having the anchor point separate
from the branch, you might want to make sure your line is elastic
enough to take any movement without building up large forces, or you
might just hang a weight as your anchor, so that your anchor point can
move with the branch movement. Make sense?

On the two rope issue, the friction will prevent the rope from
equalizing the force on the two lines when one of your two attach
points on your tire attempts to go farther away from the branch than
the other due to the child shifting their weight during parts of the
swing, especially if the tire is swinging sideways. If the center of
gravity of the tire & child ever lines up with one tire attach point
and the branch contact point, that line will take all the force while
the other line will essentially go slack. Therefore, if the rope is
too small to handle the force itself, don't assume that having two
attach points will solve the problem. In fact, the only time the two
lines will perfectly share the load is when the center of gravity of
child & tire is exactly in line with the center of the two supports.

Let me know if I'm misunderstanding your plans. I should also note
that if your branch is at too much of an angle, the rope may walk down
the slope, but you probably already know that.

Good luck,
roo

"Jack Rogers" <jrog...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:<%J9Cb.653$914...@fe1.columbus.rr.com>...

No, I never had to replace the rope. It was a used mylar rope when I put
it up there. It was used as a hot rope on a line truck. Line trucks have
a fiberglass extension that pulls out of the boom by hand. This is used
when you're sticking the boom up around hot wires. Today line trucks
have rope winch lines (a coated yacht braid), but in the 70's they still
had steel winch lines. So when you use the hot boom you'd attach this
hot rope to the winch line and keep at least 3 wraps of the hot rope on
your winch drum, at all times. If you'd like to see some more of my
knots made with used rope from work, you can at

http://murrayranch.com/Knots.htm

Don

I do worry about the rope "walking", however. If the rope is tied to the
swing, then coiled a few times around the limb, then anchored; what is to
stop the rope (between the tire and the limb) from moving, up or down? True
the weight of the tire and child should hold pretty well, but it seems it
would still be able to move. Would it make sense to run the rope through
the loop of the first coil? In other words, I have the rope over the limb
one time. I take the rope over the limb the second time and leave a hanging
loop. I run the end of the rope through the loop and then pull tight (this
will be attached to the tire). I then proceed to wrap the other end of the
rope around the branch another time or two. I guess I could also use this
approach on the final coil, before attaching that end of the rope to the
anchor. Any thoughts?

I understand what you are saying about the center of gravity of the tire.
My thought was that by making one big loop, then pulling both ends of the
rope through, snugging the rope to the branch, the two rope ends would be
side-by-side (side-by-side on the limb), possibly even touching. I thought
with the ropes so close together, they would both take a significant amount
of the weight, even though the amount of weight on each rope would likely
vary. I doesn't seem like one rope would go slack in this scenario since
the ends are so close together. Am I wrong in this assumption?

A final idea was just to use two separate ropes. Each would be tied with a
slip knot, hangman's noose, or whatever to the limb and each would be
individually tied to an eyebolt in the tire. This is probably the safest
way to go as the likelihood of both ropes breaking at the same time is
pretty remote. However, it would not look as nice and would likely not
swing as well.

I greatly appreciate all the feedback you folks are giving me. Obviously, I
know nothing about this sort of thing. My hobby is aquariums. I've kept
coral reef tanks, freshwater tanks, planted tanks, etc. If any of you ever
get interested in that hobby and need any help, let me know.

Jack

news:3c67d62.03121...@posting.google.com...

Thanks,
Jack

news:XatAb.17348$yd.27...@news20.bellglobal.com...

Thanks,
Jack

news:3FDA437E...@murrayranch.com...

I would think the branch would have to be steep enough to make the
contact point walk over the next lower coil if you have the coil
spiraled toward the trunk. Then again if you have the anchor side
higher on the branch, that may limit "walking" as well by limiting
slack at some point. Just thinking aloud.

On the two-rope issue again: To make the two ropes share the load as
much as possible (no matter how the child shifts their weight), the
two contact points at the branch would have to be nearly one point AND
where the two ropes connect to tire would have to be nearly one point
AND the lengths (or initial tensions) of the two ropes would have to
be exactly the same. After all this trouble, it still seems easier to
me to use one larger rope if the smaller rope isn't sufficient with
one line. But you can do whatever you prefer.

Cheers,
roo

"Jack Rogers" <jrog...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:<JeHCb.17729$Vg3....@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...

)-:

> "Don Murray" <d...@murrayranch.com> wrote in message

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> Trim your replies, please.
>
> )-:

OK every one set up straight the Net Nanny is here.
Don ;)