Sony caught using Fuzzy math?

Here are the facts: Nvidia uses separate Vertex and Pixel Shaders, ATI uses a Unified Shader which does both Vertex and Pixel Shading using the same Shader. When Nvidia calculates performance, it totals both Vertex and Pixel Shaders running at peak efficiency. When ATI calculates performance, it totals the performance of the single unified shader (composed of both Pixel and Vertex shaders) at peak efficiency. So this means that in order to compare ATI's performance to Nvidia's, you would double the rated performance.

PS3:

CPU=0.25 TFlops

GPU=1.80 TFlops for both Pixel and Vertex Shaders

XBOX360:

CPU=0.18 TFlops

GPU=0.88 TFlops for Unified Shaders=1.75 TFlops for combined Pixel and Vertex Shaders

So the PS3 has a total theoretical of about 2 TFlops and XBox 360 has about 1.9 TFlops (counting Pixel and Vertex shaders separately, as thr PS3 does).

Check out the www.beyond3d.com forums, they have the complete detail of what is written up there

Interesting... :)

Sony, you've just been punked.

Isn't it ATi's fault? Not Sony's fault? :confused:

interesting

Isn't it ATi's fault? Not Sony's fault? :confused:

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What ? You meaning lying about self ?

that's why i'm going /w xbx 360, being unified there's really no difference between the 2 besides the little extras (like xbx live :) )

(plus the cooling's better in the xbx- linear performance)

ahaha, take that phony sony.

and take that matty.

What ? You meaning lying about self ?

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huh?? Please explain as I am absolutely lost as to what you're talking about!

ahaha, take that phony sony.

and take that matty.

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how is it Sony's fault?? What is Sony suppose to do when they saw the spec sheet on xbox.com? Question it's integrity and phone Bill Gates to confirm it?

huh?? Please explain as I am absolutly lost as to what you're talking about!

I trust 'xbox.com' wouldn't you?

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read the first post.

read the first post.

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I am sorry, but I am still not getting it... all the first post is telling me is that MS did their math wrong. I don't see how it's Sony's fault?

i dunno, but if thats true

ps3 is only better than .1 tera flop

whats a tera flop?

huh?? Please explain as I am absolutely lost as to what you're talking about!

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Jeez, read the beyond3d thread. Its the way math is done, ATI always calculates it realistically. Nvidia "hypes" it for the past 7 years. Atleast that is what was being said there.

I am sorry, but I am still not getting it... all the first post is telling me is that MS did their math wrong. I don't see how it's Sony's fault?

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ATi counted pixel and vertex shader once, when it's actually 2 actions being done that can be given #'s individually; this allows the power to be totaled in a similar fashion to the ps3's number chart.

The guys saying how ATI is 1.9 Teraflops when on the xbox360 spec sheet says 1 teraflop, while sony did NOT write up the spec sheet

thats awesome.

silly microsoft I say, its not Sony's fault Ati forgot it does stuff twice :D lol

Makes me happier tho, maybe I dont need to own both now!

Read the article people, not a hard concept...Quite straight forward if you ask me. :rolleyes:

what is this tf or whatever, could some1 pm me with a link cus i feel dumb not understanding this :shy:

The guys saying how ATI is 1.9 Teraflops when on the xbox360 spec sheet says 1 teraflop, while sony did NOT write up the spec sheet

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No hes saying the combined power of the CPU and GPU is actually 1.9TFlops because ATi calculated it by the single Unified shader rather than adding both Pixel and Vertex Shader values like Sony/nVidia did for PS3, which puts x360 pretty much smack bang same power as PS3. More Sony bull****, i hope people will see Sony for what they are and not buy into PS3.

Awesome stuff OrangeSoul. You continue to amaze me, you're my hero. :) Now I think my X360 purchase is that much more justified, hehe! Hey, who want's a console that lies about it's specs to you, eh?

Awesome stuff OrangeSoul. You continue to amaze me, you're my hero. :) Now I think my X360 purchase is that much more justified, hehe! Hey, who want's a console that lies about it's specs to you, eh?

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well, it's not really lying.

No hes saying the combined power of the CPU and GPU is actually 1.9TFlops because ATi calculated it by the single Unified shader rather than adding both Pixel and Vertex Shader values like Sony/nVidia did for PS3, which puts x360 pretty much smack bang same power as PS3. More Sony bull****, i hope people will see Sony for what they are and not buy into PS3.

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Do you have something against sony? Literally, Every product I own is sony, and im not kidding. From tvs to sound systems to laptops, desktops, they all work great. So what is your reason disliking them APART from a little math error mate? No flamming please, i would just like you to justify your reasons, thats all.

If this is the case why aren't they marketing the xbox 360 @ 1.9TF :s

Regardless the ps3 is faster than xbox 360! :)

because Unified shader architecture by ATI is experimental(like cell) while the Nvidia design has been thiers since 6800

Here's the problem the way I see it:

Microsoft released the 1 teraflops measurement before PS3 released the 2 teraflops measurement. What that means is that Sony had the chance to choose: do they want to measure both shaders together, or do they want to measure them seperately?

The answer's simple: do the latter, so you can make it look like your machine's twice as fast!

If Microsoft had measured the shaders seperately, and Sony didn't, Microsoft would have had hell to pay (let's face it -- if Microsoft were the one that said 2 teraflops, NOBODY would have let it slide the way some people on this thread are letting Sony off the hook), so you can't say it was "silly" on their part. It was a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.

But fine. Let's say that's unfortunate but it wasn't deliberate.

What makes it worse though is the fact that Sony went ahead and made charts to compare Xbox to PS3, knowing the measurements were different, and pitched the PS3 as being twice as fast.

If it were miscommunication within Sony (and arguably nVidia) that led to the error, I think it's still legally false advertising, but forgivable. If on the other hand, they actually knew and went ahead anyway, it'd be completely unacceptable.

I personally think it's the latter, since the people at Sony benchmarking their machine must have known how the measurements were made, and must have had the final say on the machine's specs as presented to the public.

In either case, you could argue that Sony didn't lie intentionally, but Sony did at least misinform.

So what needs to be done is to make sure the media (which is already completely confused, especially after the whole Cell speculation and hype) starts correcting the whole error. I see no need to crucify either company over this, but I do see a need for people to be properly informed.

I honestly wouldn't mind making the effort to try to contact IGN and such with the correct data, since even though I'm more of a PS3 fan for my taste in games, I'm also sick of all this mud-flinging and confusion.

Anyone with me?