DVD stalled

Sounds to me like DVD is still a long way off. Comments?
--
Jeff Swindoll
jswi...@vvm.com

You know everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects.--Will
Rogers

I will believe DVD is here when I can walk into a store and either
purchase one or rent one!

Red

I just got a note from someone on the software manufacturing side, who is
a laser buff like me, and he says that after the latest round of meetings
he's had concerning DVD, it's time to cool off on putting money into
laserdiscs.

Not my opinion, just that of a colleague.

-- Jeff

That is the most sensible thing I've heard from anyone (myself included)
on the subject yet.

-- Jeff

Oh, just the sound of this subject heading is makes me feel all warm and
fuzzy inside...

merch

>

It just goes to show...There are still NO DISC even mastered! The folks
behind DVD have bitten off more than they can possibly chew by announcing
the product for Fall '96 launch, with a 250+ title library available at
launch.

I'm about as anti-DVD as it gets, but I'm all for technology progressing.
There are yet to be convincing arguments posed as to exactly _what_ DVD
will offer us. I'm not talking about all the _industry hype_.

Are there really people who believe this medium will out perform
LaserDisc? Do you really believe it will be all and do all that it
claims? Really? Alternate rating versions? 9 different camera angles? 3
aspect ratios? 3 full 5.1 AC-3 carriers? Be reasonable. Where is all
this stuff going to be stored? There just is no way you're going to do it
in 4.7gb of space without adversly affecting picture resolution, running
time or both!

I just don't see where DVD will get it's market from. There will be no
one who abandons VHS (or tape format of choice) for this system, and folks
who love LD are not going to flock to the new format, regardless of it
_supposed_ improvements.

DVD simply doesn't make sense.

Blaine
Bl...@aol.com

Well, if they used these features on a porno disc, imagine the
possibilities! You get to switch between 9 camera angles!! ;->

They may be able to do some of those things but it may not appear on a
typical DVD disc.

For example, at the recent Windows Hardware Conference in SF (WinHEC),
Time-Warner's DVD Compression Manager said that a typical DVD title
would have 2 5.1 AC-3 tracks and 2 AC-3 stereo tracks.

No sell-through titles maybe, but that's hardly surprising given that
the launch is still almost a year off.

An interesting paradox! Are you anti-DVD because you've seen demos and
don't like them, or - like the majority of the anti-DVD brigade on
this newsgroup - are you anti-DVD because it's new and it's not LD
(and threatens to be better)?

Smaller discs, no side breaks for 97% of movies, better picture
quality...

Yes. What the hell is it that makes LD so apparently unbeatable by DVD
or any other future format? LD isn't even broadcast-quality, for God's
sake.

I haven't heard anything about 9 different camera angles, and that
could only happen if 9 different camera angles (presumably for every
scene) were shot during normal filming - yeah, THAT'S really gonna
happen! As far as the rest are concerned, they are perfectly possible
and are running on demo discs.

4.7Gb is the *lowest* DVD data storage size. Most movie discs will be
dual-layered, giving 9.4Gb, and the current maximum storage using the
first-generation technology is 18.8Gb (two dual-layer discs bonded
together). Again, this isn't vapourware - it's all working technology.

It's blindingly obvious that no-one is going to abandon VHS for DVD
while it remains non-recordable (professional recordable DVD is slated
to be available within the next 12 months) but it is perfectly
possible to educate Joe Public to buy movies on DVD rather than VHS.

So you're saying that LD buffs - who presumably bought into the format
because it offers the best picture and sound quality currently
available from domestic video - will not switch to DVD *even if* its
picture is shown to be demonstrably better, with the advantage of no
side breaks or disc swaps?

Of course they will - but they won't immediately abandon LD, because
there'll still be material available on LD that they won't be able to
get on DVD for a while (if at all). I fully expect consumer DVD to
outperform LD (it won't be difficult), but I won't be selling my LD
player and discs - conversely, I'll always buy the DVD version of a
new movie over the LD version (where a choice exists).

It makes a lot more sense as a mass-market product than LD ever will.

Gareth

Putting your butt on the line and biting off more than you can chew can
sometimes lead to miserable failure _or_ incredible success. There's a lot
of companies putting a lot of money on the line for this in the hope they
will make a lot more money. I don't believe that they are going to give up
on this one without a pretty dirty fight.

I agree with your doubt that the first DVDs will be feature laden but I
disagree with you on the market issue. I think you're right in that no one
is going to abandon VHS. That's precisely why I don't consider
recordability of DVD an issue _for the time being_ (for it to actually
replace VHS, it will be an obstacle that _must_ be overcome.)

From conversing with other LD collectors here on AVL, I'm constantly
surprised by the belief that the general public knows about LDs. THEY
DON'T. Some people need to get out of their homes a little more often.
People are familiar with DSS because they see commercials on TV, hear
commercials on the radio and see ads in magazines (and not just magazines
devoted to AV nuts like us.) I have *never* in my lifetime seen a
commercial on TV for LD players or discs. Neither has anyone else that I
know. There are NO places in the city I live in that rent LDs. The closest
place I know of that does is in Atlanta. I'm constantly having to explain
to people what LDs *are* - that they are a completely different format
from the failed CED format. Another thread on AVL is about stupid things
we hear people say about LDs. My point is that when the DVD marketing
hits, the VHS community is going to believe that the quality of DVD is far
and above _any_ other AV medium - whether it's true or not. I think it
will be a while before the medium reaches critical mass, but I don't see
how it cannot reach that point sooner or later. It won't happen overnight
but I think it will happen whether any of us in the LD community like it
or not. I think it could be pretty cool myself...

DUDE

--
gra...@groupz.net

No, you are missing my point. Since the mastering and authoring tools and
the encoding routines have yet to be finalized, there has not been a
single movie which has even been mastered. DVD is vaporware on the
software side of the system.

Let me answer your query this way. I am not anti-DVD because it is not
LD. I am anti-DVD for the same reasons I was anti-CED. It is inferior to
LD.

Smaller discs? Yes. No side breaks? Who cares, I've got two sided players
which change sides in 5-7 seconds. Have you never gotten up from a movie
to pee? And picture quality? This has already been proved to be less than
stellar.

I'm not saying that there will _never_ be a format which will outperform
LD. In fact, I'm sure there will one day be something that quite
literally blows it out of the water. However, it _will not_ be DVD. It
is already a well documented fact that the system suffers from
decompression artifacts and at times experiences audio-video sync troubles
due to the complexities of decoding the data.

And just where did you get the misinformation about LD being inferior to
broadcast quality? It pushes NTSC to the very limits. When did you ever
see a broadcast that looks as good as a signal that travels less than 10
feet?

Demo discs which contain NO MORE than 15 minutes of data, at the maximum
bit rate, passing all data through a complex PC running 4 Pentium 133
processors in parallel just to get a picture which must be then sent
through a line quadupler. Then this "glorious" image is compared to a LD
which has been mastered from a 4th generation rental VHS tape. Does this
sounds like a fair comparison and evaluation of the system? Does this
sound like the $499 system that RCA plans to sell? I don't think so.

Working technology, that in practicality, doesn't work. The system will
begin with only single layer, single sided discs. It won't be for 5 years
_at least_ until we are seing 4 layer (2 layers, 2 sides) discs. How much
data do you really think they will be able to put on 2 .6mm layers that
are glued together?

Just like Joe Public started buying all his movies on LaserDisc. Ain't
gonna happen. Joe Public says, "I've got a VCR. I rent tapes. Why should
I buy a new system so I can buy my movies?" Remember, Joe Public still
doesn't have his VCR hooked up to the stereo. He's still watching Casper
through the TV speakers. The improvements in audio are not gonna be
decernable through that 4" speaker in the Hitichi 19" TV.

Furhter, it has been stated, that _if_ and _when_ DVD-R is released, it
will be at a Significantly reduced capacity. Somewhere on the order of
3gb single layer, single side. But why have a Professional DVD recordable
system before there is any Consumer DVD equipment to use it? They are
just getting CD-R to work reliably. Now you're talking about multiplying
the capacity by 8. This is not around the corner any way you slice it.

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that expecting 70% of
the LD consumers to abandon 12" discs for this is ludricrius. There are
documented issues with picture quality and is is _lacking_ in comparison
to LD. Audio quality? Why is this even an issue? LD has the same audio
fidelity via AC-3 and DTS CAS.

And do you care to explain how DVD will manage something like the T2
Special Edition, with it's 3 CAV sides of supplemental material? Why
would you rather buy the DVD version when the LD (in this case) offers so
much more?

How can you say that? Consumer tests have shown that a whooping 10% of
the consumers even care about DVD. With all the hype, you'd think that
consumer acceptance would be higher.

I know you are in love with DVD, MPEG, DSS and whatnot. I'm sure you also
thought "Turbo" sneakers were somehow better than regular sneakers. Just
because it is "Digital" does not guarentee it will be better. Sorry, buy
your DSS isn't better than LD, and DVD will only be marginally better than
DVD, if at all.

Blaine
Bl...@aol.com

The two first are an improvement, and IF thew latter also comes true, I'll
get into DVD. I'll just wait and se, but I'm rather sceptical when it comes
to the 'better picture quality'.

Three full AC-3 carriers use a lot of bandwidth (approx. 1Mbit). Will this
have a noticable impact on video quality? Time will tell. Maybe in the
DVD-future real purists will only buy movies with noe soundtrack because the
picture is better.

The question still remains if the 9.2 and 18.4GB discs will be used for
DVD-video. Last thing I heard the 4.6GB disc was only to be used for
DVD-video. There was no mention of using any of the bigger discs. Another
thing is if they use the 9.2GB discs for DVD-video, then they have to
incorperate multilayer reading as a standard in all players. And since they
have said that the cheapest players will cost about $500 (at release), thats
a lot of mechanics they have to mass produce cheaply. Complex electronics is
dirt cheap today, complex mechanics is not.

--
Paul Currie
pa...@stud.cs.uit.no
http://www.cs.uit.no/~paul/

I also have a press kit from Toshiba, and it states that reading dual
layer discs is MANDATORY for all base-case players. As is the multi
aspect ratio and the other above mentioned features.

Now, it this will turn out to be true when the actual players reach the
stores, I do not know.

Ty Chamberlain
DiscoVision - THE WORLD ON A SILVER PLATTER!!
Ster...@aol.com
StereoBoy is a Registered Trademark of
Patrick T.Chamberlain

_________________________________________________________________

Jameson Calantoc <jj...@axe.humboldt.edu> B-) <--- turn your head sideways!

This is my only question about the hype about dvd. I've read the Toshiba
ad where multiple camera angles are mentioned. It can be read in the
April issue of Home Theater. Also, the way the ad was written, it sounds
like a propaganda campaign: "You've probably been hearing a lot about dvd.
And you've probably heard Toshiba come up quite often. So who better to
tell you about dvd than Toshiba?" or something like that.

You call DVD vaporware and then claim that the quality has been proved
to be inferior to LD. Can you see the contradiction? How can you
prove the inferiority of something does not exist yet?

I wish people would stop stating that DVD is superior or inferior to LD
as fact when we simply do not know how it will look yet. By all
accounts early demos are highly suspect and not worthy of judgment one
way or the other. I'll judge it based upon what hits the street.

What are your sources? How is this a well documented fact? If you say
that there is proof, I want to see it. Don't just spout off that this
is fact if you can't back it up.

--Bill Davidson

>
But how on earth could it be a falsehood?!? These are big, honorable
companies serving the public good...

Hmmmmphh...............

A very good point indeed. How do "alternate camera angles" get made for
older catalog titles? They DON'T. How about SFX scenes? They DON'T.

Alternate camera angles seem to point towards DVD's use as a game
platform. Remember "Dragon's Lair"...

As for the multiple audio tracks - where is the need?

As for the combination of P&S and LBX, considering that most people have
very strong opinions about thier preferences, it doesn't make economic
sense to include both on the same disc.

Really look at what the format is promising. Is there a need for all
these bells and whistles on a format that is supposed to be reproducing a
LINEAR experience (a movie). Movies aren't CD's which are COLLECTIONS of
INDIVIDUAL performances. People like to pick and choose which songs they
want to listen to on a CD. It makes logical sense to have search and skip
capabilities for them. Are we to believe that people are going to
drastically chane the way they watch movies? Hey gang, lets watch
selected scenes from a movie - why bother seeing the whole thing through..

Well, it would be cool to have every foreign language dubbed soundtrack
made, also the audio commentary and isolated music tracks we've all grown
to love.

Well it might for retailers because they wouldn't have to worry about
carrying both versions. If you don't want to see it pan and scan, don't
set it on it! (I think these players should be connected to a database
somewhere that records who uses the pan and scan option, so they can get
them professional help!)

Well they've already got chapter stops on most LDs that do that, but I
admit I don't really use it that much. I keep meaning to program "Short
Cuts" so I can see the individual stories seperated though. I also use
chapter search on "Saturday Night Fever" to get to the disco scenes since
the rest of the movie's kinda boring.

big pile o' crap.

In order to have multiple camera angles, you have to shoot those angles
and have them available on film. The only way this is possible is on video
games (where it already exists). So please, when referring to movies, do
not praise the multiple camera angles option when referring to movies
unless you can give a damn convincing reason how it can be done. Thank
you.

marc

Actually, The single layer is 4.7GB and the double layer is 8.5GB
(REF: http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/dvd/tech.html). Apparently
the second layer can't hold as much as the first.

I also heard in this forum that one of the demos had a dual layer disc
and they demonstrated switching from one layer to the next during a
movie and showed that it switched without a glitch (when it worked
;-)). Some movies are longer than 135 minutes. Certainly it can be
used for movies.

True. If all or at least almost all players can't read dual layer
discs, dual layer movies will be rare or non-existant. I suspect that
you are correct that the early players won't do double layered because
they need to be cheap and so double layer probably is dead for movies.

--Bill Davidson

These things may be possible with the system, but it would make filmmakers
radically change their craft to do it. They don't want you to be able to
do those things, because it changes their intentions. You think the flak
over pan and scan is bad, just wait until someone wants to reframe every
other camera angle and see what kind of reaction Hollywood gets...

merch

>
>

They're not saying that they have 8 alternate camera angles ready for
every shot in Citizen Kane, or anything. They're simply stating that that
sort of potential is there. But remember these are hardware guys.
They're thinking, "We can do this and this and this!" but no software
maker has come to them, smacked them in the head, and said, "Sure, but
what the hell for?"

-- Jeff

Well said! :-) Unless they get something going like in Blade Runner...
You know, the photo scanning device that eneabled Deckard to see around edges
of objects in the picture...

I keep trying to get out, but they keep pulling me back in...
I think the multiple camera angles thing is a statement of POSSIBILITY
(ie, the format can handle it), not a hyped statement of what DVD will
grant every movie.

Adam

Apparently Toshiba do know what the 'street' quality of DVD will be - it's
3 times better than VHS and better (an unspecified amount) than Laserdisc.

Or so they keep saying in their un-biased multi-million dollar promotion
of *their* format (yes they claim full responsibility for DVD).

So you can understand Laserdisc collectors, who are concerned about the
damage DVD may do to their market, pointing out that most honest reporters
who have witnessed DVD in action have written that, yes the picture looks
sharp (so does S-VHS), but there are motion artifacts (such as blocking)
clearly visible on the *manufacturers* super-demos.

Now if Toshiba want to go round saying that their flawed demos are
proof that their street version is going to be the best video format
ever,then we LD buyers are only being fair in pointing out that Toshiba
are jumping the gun just a bit (by about a year on most realistic
timescales).

I say long live the LD/DVD debate. I see no reason to gag comments about
DVD quality just because the wretched thing isn't on sale yet.

Guy.

On 18 Apr 1996, Bill Davidson wrote:

> Date: 18 Apr 96 14:49:30 CDT
> From: Bill Davidson <bi...@cray.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.video.laserdisc
> Subject: Re: DVD stalled

> [...]

> [...]

It isn't? Funny, it sure looks better on my TV than broadcast signals.
<g> In fact, the numbers I've seen for resolution put LD ahead of
broadcast by a significant margin.

Laser Disc 425x482 lines

NTSC Broadcast 330x482 lines

VHS 250x482 lines

The PAL numbers are a little bit better for both LD and broadcast, but
LD is still ahead there too.

!^NavFont02F01AA0008IG91HHAC576D

--
Michael J. D'Auben 72517...@compuserve.com
04/21/96 11:51
[ Standard Disclaimer ]

> capabilities for them. Are we to believe that people are going to

People may change how they watch movies. One of the things I found about having a
collection of movies on LD is that I can pull out a disc with a favorite movie and
look at favorite scenes. Over and over again if I want to. That is not the way I
normally listen to music or watch a movie, but having a random access medium allows
this and I certainly take advantage of it when I feel the mood.

--
**************************************************************
* Bill Cruce http://www.cybertheater.com *
* CyberTheater(TM): The Internet Journal of Home Theater *
**************************************************************

Unfortunately nothing is MANDATORY about the hardware. As Jim Millick reports
in the WCES96 report and Mike Fidler interview in CyberTheater(tm) because of
the Sony/Toshiba accord DVD is an open standard. There is no licensing. While
the first US players may include all the promised features there is nothing to
stop a clone player from having bare-bones lack of features. This is one of
the things that scares the studios about releasing a disc with two MPA
versions. There is no guarantee that it will be played on a player with
lockout for, say NC-17. The potential for lawsuits is high and that will
probably drive the inclusion/or not of this feature.

Why wouldn't Blockbuster be happy about something (lower costs per title)
that decreases their operating costs?
--
Chuck Kahn / od...@io.org / <A HREF="http://www.io.org/~odin/">Home Page</A>

Or dealing with customers returning discs because they aren't in the
format they prefer. No need for the customer to read the label
carefully before leaving the store to make sure they are getting the
right version -- just grab the movie they want and bring home all
versions.

Kids love to watch their favourite parts over & over. So do adults.

But from a consumer's standpoint it makes perfect sense. Blockbuster
now sells new copies of VHS movies. But just try to walk into a
Blockbuster store and find a letterbox edition of Pulp Fiction or
Apollo 13 (Both of which are readily available at other retailers in
LBX editions).It can't be done.

I say it's better to restrict Blockbuster's ability to impose its P&S
tyranny on customers who don't know to go elsewhere for better
product.

-Louis J. Cassorla

Director's commentary..
Multiple languages. (i.e. dubbed audio)

Just the latter example would save the company money by being able to make
one version for the whole world..

And if you save the company _enough_ money, hopefully it will EVENTUALLY
be revealed to the consumer in lower costs to them.

I realize, the CD is a great example of where that _did not_ happen. I'm
not saying it _will_ happen, just that it's a possibility.

The idea of movies the price of a book (hopefully between the price of a
paperback and a hardcover, at most) is certainly one that would get me to buy
more movies. The only movies I have now are a couple bought at McDonalds'
Xmas movie sale, and a Dirty Dancing I got from Totinos from pizza UPC symbols!
I bought the 3 Xfiles tapes since they're only $9.99 apiece (2 episodes each).
I hope they're in SP. I couldn't tell from the package, but they _feel_ light
(maybe just because they are ~T90 rather than T120? I can only hope! I just
haven't checked yet.)

Those movies I have bought aren't widescreen, but they were cheap enough
that I bought them anyway.

Yes it does. If it causes MORE letterbox movies to _exist_ just because it's
far less _added work_ than making a letterbox version all by itself, then
that's good. And if the company can make more sales because they're
making it letterbox-capable, it's better for them.

IT seems like a win-win situation, as long as the lossy compression doesn't
really suck, which I'm expecting it to.
--
unk...@apple.com Apple II Forever
These opinions are mine, not Apple's.

Step 1. Research and Retrieve Elements (6-9 week process for older
titles). New movies should be planning for DVD was the concept.
Locate best prints
locate subtitle prints
locate dubbed prints
copy and ship to central location

Step 2. QC and Create new elements
QC one day per element retrieved
If new video master must be built up 6-18 months
If extra language dubs 4-10 weeks
If new subtitles 2-3 weeks
One problem is foreign edits are often different from US edits
may have scenes missing certain languages etc

Step 3.Branching and Pan Scan Authoring
Identify portions not to be shown in different rating levels
DVD players can have parental control options to
lock out showing shows above a certain rating
identify portions not to be shown in certain languages
some countries may have different edits or even
different censorship requirements
Identify if different endings/cuts (ie directors and release)
are to be included.
Pan /scan programming
allows a 4:3 window to be placed on each scene
over the 16:9 image (the default stored image)
Note: there is not both a 16:9 and 4:3 image only a
16:9 with box coordinates stored periodically to let
the dvd player crop the picture at play time if going
to a standard set.
This step could be done scene by scene or one time or
even adjusted in the middle of scenes depending on
how much work the studios want to invest.
Disks for NTSC will not be the same masters as for PAL.

Step 4. Menu and value added materials creation.
Still frames, trailers and "making of" type clips
Still frames are always 720x480 pixel

Step 5. Conform subtitles and language dubs.

Step 6. Compression.
Sound is recorded at a constant compression rate so the number
of running minutes determines the space required for sound.
example 120minutes
2 - 6 channel tracks @.384 MBs= 691.2 mb
1 - 2 channel track @.192 MBs= 172.8 mb
3 - subtitles @.008 MBs= 21.6 mb
Total 885.6 mb

Disk size is 4700mb so 4700mb-885mb leaves 3814 mb for
the video portion.
Resulting bit rate for video after compression must aveerage
4.07 MBS.

Note: this means more sound tracks and dubbings or alternate
endings means the video bit (and quaility) will decrease
(My comment not speakers).

Compression is now performed to meet this bitrate. Could be
automated or could be done scene by scene with action scenes
given a higher bit rate and other scenes given less (similar
to how DSS distributes bandwidth).

Step 7. Authoring and formatting
All of the above collected together and arranged in the DVD
file system format.

Step 8. Manufacturing
Cut glass master
Press
and Quality Control

Step 9. WILL THEY BUY IT? (not his comment either)


MY comment:
Studios will have even more opportunities to turn out very
bad DVD disks than they did for Laser. How much time and
effort is put into the compression and pan/scan choices will
greatly alter the finished products quality. Some directors will
probably be able to creatively control the resulting products
and the quality may approach good lasers (to most people).
Some titles will probably be done almost entirely automatically
and may end up being total schlock.

Because Blockbuster makes a killing on their overpriced rental
pricing. If a lot of people start buying instead of renting from them
then oops there goes the businness. Also they will not be able to
justify charging $3.00 for 2 nights rent for something that can
be bought outright for only say $15.00. Chris

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J.C. O'Connell
(954)-755-0396 "Accidents seldom have such system"
hifi...@gate.net
hifis...@aol.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the cassette tape of the WinHEC DVD session. Very informative
in terms of what the vendors are planning format and compression wise
for DVD Video.

>But from a consumer's standpoint it makes perfect sense. Blockbuster

>-Louis J. Cassorla

At my local Blockbuster, they have both the pan and scan and letterbox
versions of Pulp Fiction on VHS. So yes, IT CAN BE DONE.

"Its all done with mirrors." Well maybe.

I don't have any argument except that, as I've said before, not all the DVD
demos at 1995 C.E.S. were bad, blocky, forged or whatever. I've posted a few
times especially regarding the Thomson demo. It was long > 20 minutes, so it was
compressed. The monitor was typical interlaced rear projection, and people
(including me) sat up close. The quality was good. I have DSS, I know what MPEG-2
artifacting looks like. This had very little to none that was noticable.

Another thing is that I spend a few hours a week in front of a line quadrupled
system front projecting a LD source to a 10 ' screen, and the thing you notice
after the smoothness, is the limitations of the video source. You see every
spec from the master, and every analog video flicker. Watching DVD on Thomson's
setup was worthwhile, but the line quadrupled system also tells you a lot about
the source too.

regards
Barry Chalmers
(bar...@strata3d.com)

Even if that weren't the case, Blockbuster marketing is savvy enough to stock
hundreds of videos for sale - if purchase prices get down to the price of a
rental or two, they'll simply switch to a larger stock of videos for sale, and
scale back their rental stock.

How come you don't have this sort of thing in the US? (Re DVD)

I work for Blockbuster, and can vouch that we carry the LBX and VHS
versions of Pulp Fiction and Apollo 13. Off the top of my head, I can
also name a few more we carry letterboxed: A Few Good Men, Thelma &
Louise, Dances With Wolves, Dangerous Liasons, and probally a few more.
To tell the truth, however, they almost never rent. We did sell a few of
the Apollo 13, but didn't have any of PF for sale. Keep in mind, however,
that BBV can order ANY in-print video for you to purchase. The Company
sends us tapes based on what our customers rent, and our customers don't
seem to want them. I think they are missing out, but that's life...

merch

No one can buy everything. Blockbuster knows this. People will rent
the titles they don't own.

If it can be bought for $15.00, then Blockbuster (which will be
getting it for less than list price anyway) can lower the rental
price.

Well, the most educated people who would choose letterboxed, and laserdisc
over VHS, know Blockbuster's censorship practices, so they do not do
business with the company because of that! This leaves the "I'll buy
whatever they say is good" 2-head VHS owning, crappy-reception-HBO
subscribing drones.

Our politicians are afraid that this sort of legislation might also
be applied to them.

Robert Wallace
rob...@metronet.com

In article <4ldp5r$p...@dub-news-svc-1.compuserve.com>, Michael J. D'Auben
writes:

PAL LDs also have better numbers, it should be 425x576 lines then. My
Forrest Gump LD is the only PAL disc I own; I wanted to see the difference
by myself. Yep, compared to my NTSC discs the resolution is higher and I
needn't trim the colours, but the US LDs don't flicker and normally have
richer colours.

I don't think so. I believe a nigh percentage of the rental price is not
contributed by the tape cost, but because of corporation overheads and
profit margins. So even if DVD is cost at $15, it probably would not lower
the rental price by 50 cents.

As a side note, have anyone of you thinking about how the DVD publishers deal
with the problem that Blockbusters' requirement of special cut of some of the
movies ? I don't think the multiple ratings thing on DVD can solve this
problem, since it seems like Blockbusters' philosophy is not to permit any
"dirty" scenes exist in their tapes. So do you think the DVD publishers
need to cut different versions for Blockbusters too ?
--
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Ming Yau So Internet: min...@netcom.com
AOL: Ming So
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I just don't get this argument that reducing software costs per unit
would be objectionable to video rental stores.

If the product only costs 9.95, it's hard to justify a 4.99 rental fee.
--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a
source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect
it."--sp...@cs.purdue.edu (1992)
gor...@portal.ca

Blockbuster will just not carry thoes certain titles, just as they do now. As
far as different versions, Blockbuster is able to do that now with certain
titles today, so what's the difference?

Why not? Blockbuster seems to be able to do that today with some (very few)
video titles, so why not DVD?

It might be benificial to the format to do that actually. A porno film
would really show the flaws in the DVD system during the fast motion
scenes. I can't even play my VHS's with the Digital Video Noise Reduction
on my VCR, because it smears.
OK, I'll try to get my mind out of the gutter now. I'll go to Blockbuster
and rent Pocahontas, formatted to fit my screen cause if they didn't it
wouldn't fit!

As this seems like a big concern all the brands will only use
XXXX-rated movies when presenting their DVD-players at the next CES.
........just kidding.

Robert-
--
*------------------------- rob...@unik.no ---------------------------*
| Robert Lundemo Aas http://www.unik.no/~robert/ (4 mill. acc.) |
| What would you do if Israel occupied your country too? |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*

At the next CES there will be a strange yellow glow around all the
displays. This will be due to all the DVD manufacturers having egg on
their faces.

Guy.

>Then why can't the video rental store make money by selling the $9.95
>item? Or charge a lower rental price?

Your joking right? A LOWER RENTAL PRICE?!? LOL! Please! Shlockbuster and
every other video store have been raising their prices for years now, and
it's not going to get any cheaper. Priced for rent VHS tapes run at about
95$ or so for one copy. A copy that might only get a half dozen rentals
out of it, especially if it sucks. (Cabin Boy anyone?) You can bet your
bippy that "priced for rent" DVD's will cost just as much, if not more.

Andy

I'm not joking. Lower software costs can be recouped through lower
rental pricing -- in this example 10 $1 rentals or 5 $2 rentals would
recoup the store's $9.95 investment. If customers won't pay an
unrealistically high rental fee, then the only way to get their money
into your cash register is by lowering the price.

The $95 price is set by the studio because they don't see any of the
over $10 billion in annual video rental revenues. They only see
revenue of tapes bought by rental stores.

If DVD software is priced at $95, the format will die. In order for
the format to succeed like CD, it will have to have software priced
like CD.

Yup, I agree. Let's say I one day made the big switch from Laser
to DVD (ain't gunna happen unless Laser dies), I would want to
continue buying movies when they first come out, like with
Laserdiscs.

For example, Goldeneye is coming out on VHS at as a "rental
movie". I work in a video store and a lot of people want to buy
this movie. Well, they can't! Not unless they want to pay
around $100 for it. I couldn't imagine having to wait months
after a movies release to purchase it. AHHHH! That's going to
be DVD's biggest draw back for me, and this is going to confuse
many people who are interested in this new format. A lot of
customers we get still don't realize (and don't understand) that
most VHS movies are not priced to sell. When the new almighty
DVD comes out, people will be confused as to why they have to pay
so much to buy their favourit movies.

Jeff

Jeff