WW2 German Flying Wing Fighter?

A second prototype of a two seat version (the 229B kit by Dragon) was
under construction at the Gotha factory, but the Allies cut it up.

The B2 is a direct descendant of the pioneering research of Jack
Northrop and the Horten Brothers. Many of the innovations in the B2
like ARM were in the 229 in a primitive form.

The kits are good, but the wings don't mate to the body well...

> Hello all!
>
> i saw an interesting model in the store the other day of a weird
> German WW2 fighter, and just had to learn more about it. It
> was a flying wing fighter design, powered by the same kind
> of jet engines as the Me-262 was. the box said they never got

> -Richard

Sounds like Me-163. That plane did fly a few sorties to
intercept enemy bombers near the very end of WW2. Cannon
and rockets, almost supersonic, climbs very fast to high
altitude etc. Problem: short time and range, only about
ten minutes flight time...

Mika

In article <2hm7a2$4...@inxs.concert.net>, e...@rock.concert.net (Steven H. Edwards) writes:
|>Path: news.kth.se!aun.uninett.no!trane.uninett.no!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!rock.concert.net!eds
|>From: e...@rock.concert.net (Steven H. Edwards)
|>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
|>Subject: Re: WW2 German Flying Wing Fighter?
|>Date: 20 Jan 1994 15:17:22 GMT
|>Organization: CONCERT-Connect Public Access UNIX
|>Lines: 29
|>Message-ID: <2hm7a2$4...@inxs.concert.net>
|>References: <59...@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <D> <1994Jan20.0...@abo.fi>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: rock.concert.net
|>
|>In article <1994Jan20.0...@abo.fi>,

|>-- Steven H. Edwards e...@rock.concert.net
|>

A better candidate would be the Gotha Go-229 which WAS powered by the
same Jumo 004 engines as the Me-262. Last in the line of Horten
flying wings, there was never more than a handful of prototypes,
only one or two of which was ever completed.

--
--- Stellan Lagerstrom, VMS system manager, School of E.E.
--- Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

--

Actually, the Hortens left Germany after the war and resettled in Agentina.
there, they continued their work with flying wings and sailplanes, and
built and flew several other designs as well. I believe that they
published a book...

Lemme see here...

I can't seem to find it right at the moment. Let me look around a while
and I'll post the book references and the references in Soaring magazine
from here in the USA. Apologies for my poor filing system...
--
Al Bowers DOD #900 NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
work: bow...@tifosi.dfrf.nasa.gov personal: ak...@yfn.ysu.edu
"...tactics always degrade strategy..." -Frank Bethwaite

Sounds more like a Horten Ho-229, several prototypes of which may have flown
just at the end of the war. Several models are available: DML's 1:48 and
Pioneer's 1:72, so I'd say that's what you saw.

Matt

I think that you are referring to the Ho.IX/Go 229 flying wing fighter.
Here's a copy of an article I posted a couple of years ago to
sci.military on this interesting fighter. Hope that this is still
interesting.

The Gotha Go 229 was the first turbojet-driven warplane of pure flying
wing configuration. Although flown for the first time in 1945, the
aircraft looks surprisingly modern--almost like a small version of the
Northrop B-2 stealth bomber.

The Go 229 was initially designed by the brothers Reimar and Walter
Horten, pioneers in early flying wing aircraft designs. The Horten
brothers were attempting to figure out ways to eliminate every source
of parasitic drag. They believed that the flying wing configuration
offered the best way to achieve this feat. Their flying wing
proposals had no fuselage as such, and they looked a lot like the
Northrop flying wing designs produced in the USA during the 1940s and
later. The chord of the wing center section increased sufficiently to
enable pilot and powerplants to be housed entirely within the wing
itself without any drastic increase of thickness/chord ratio. There
were no vertical surfaces--lateral and directional control were
provided by a set of spoilers.

The Horten brothers' interest in flying wings dates back to the Horten
I wooden sailplane of 1931. The brothers produced a number of
experimental powered and unpowered flying wings throughout the 1930s.
In 1943, they began to envisage a jet fighter flying wing design,
designated Ho IX. The Ho IX was to be powered by a pair of BMW 003
turbojets. The Ho IX was what was later came to be known colloquially
as a "skunked" project-- it went forward initially without the support
(or even the knowledge) of the all-powerful Reichluftfahrtministerium
(the State Ministry of Aviation, better known as the RLM). Work on a
single prototype (designated Ho IX V1) was begun at Gottingen.

The Horten brothers planned that their Ho IX V1 would undergo an
extensive series of gliding tests before any attempt was to be made to
install the pair of BMW 003 turbojets. However, in early 1944, the RLM
became aware of the existence of the Ho IX V1. The project captured
the imagination of Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, who gave it his
enthusiastic backing. In addition, intelligence reports from the USA
indicated that the Northrop Corporation was thinking along similar
lines. The Ho IX project was to move forward to powered flight
testing with all deliberate speed.

With official backing now present, the Ho IX project gained momentum.
The first gliding trials began in spring of 1944. Gliding tests were
highly satisfactory. The planned installation of the BMW 003 turbojet
engines in the Ho IX V1 prototype was deemed impractical, and it was
decided to install a pair of Jumo 004 engines in the second prototype
(Ho IX V2).

The Ho IX V2 was designed for a 7g safe load factor. The center
section of the wing housed the engines and the cockpit and was made of
conventional welded steel-tube construction. The center section was
covered with plywood skinning except in the immediate vicinity of the
engine exhausts, where metal was used. The outer wings were made
entirely of wood. The outer wing leading edges were constructed of a
special molded wood (wood shavings compressed with resin), but the
rest of the wing was covered with plywood. A special coating of
lacquer was applied to give a smooth finish to the entire aircraft. I
think that the idea of the lacquer finish was to give an
aerodynamically smooth surface rather than to provide any "stealth"
characteristics--that was still many, many years in the future.

Two Jumo 004B turbojets were mounted side-by-side close inboard in the
center section. The jet tailpipes protruded above the wing rear
surfaces. A tricycle undercarriage was fitted. Lateral and
longitudinal control was provided by elevons which, together with
plain flaps, occupied the trailing edges of the outer wing panels.
Spoiler flaps extended across most of the wing center section
immediately aft of the mainwheel wheels. Directional control was
achieved by spoilers located near the wingtips just aft of the main
spar.

Glide tests with the Ho IX V1 were sufficiently encouraging that the
RLM decided that the Horten design was worthy of production as an
operational combat aircraft. In early summer of 1944, the
Friedrichsroda facility of the Gothaer Waggonfabrik was given a
contract for the production of the design under the designation Go
229. Control of the adaptation of the design for production was taken
away from the Horten brothers, but the brothers continued to work on
the testing of their Ho IX prototype.

Gotha immediately began work on the production of the flying wing
fighter. The initial production version was to be given the
designation Go 229A. The Gotha team found it necessary to introduce
some changes in order to adapt the Ho IX for production. They
redesigned the cockpit, enlarged the turbojet housings, revised the
air intake geometry and modified the undercarriage. Provision was
made for four 30 mm MK 103 or MK 108 cannon mounted immediately
outboard of the engines. Hardpoints were to be provided beneath the
center section for two 2205-lb bombs or for two 275 Imp gall fuel
tanks. A two seat radar-equipped all-weather version (designated Go
229B) was also envisaged.

In the meantime, the Ho IX V2 was transferred in January 1945 to
Oranienberg for powered flight testing. Flight tests went quite well.
Handling characteristics were much better than expected. A maximum
level speed of 497 mph was attained during the tests. Unfortunately,
the Ho IX V2 crashed during a landing attempt and was totally
destroyed.

Gotha's first production prototype for the Go 229A single-seat
fighter-bomber series was given the designation Go 229 V3. V4 and V5
were to be the prototypes for the Go 229B all-weather fighter, and V-6
was to be a second A-series prototype with MK 103 cannon in place of
MK 108s. V7 was to be a prototype for a two-seat training version.

All through the spring of 1945, work proceeded at Friedrichsroda on
these prototypes. However, late in April, the Friedrichsroda plant
was occupied by American troops and development came to an abrupt end.
At that time, the Go 229 V3 prototype was being prepared for flight
testing, and the V4 and V6 prototypes were in final assembly.
Component manufacture for the 20 pre-production Go 229A-0 fighter
bombers was well advanced, and various component parts were found
strewn about the factory.

The Go 229A-0 pre-production fighters were to be powered by a pair of
Junkers Jumo 004B-1, -2, or -3 turbojets of 1962 lb. st. each.
Estimated maximum speed was 590 mph at sea level and 607 mph at 39,370
feet. Maximum ceiling was to be 52,500 feet (!!! Remember, this was
only 1945, folks!). Maximum range was estimated at 1180 miles, and
initial climb rate was to be 4330 ft/min. Weights were estimated at
10,140 lb empty, 16,550 lb normal loaded.

After the war was over, one of the captured Go 229 aircraft was
brought to the USA for evaluation. So far as I am aware, it was never
flown. I have heard reports that this aircraft is in storage at the
Paul Garber Restoration Facility in Suitland, Maryland. I was at the
Garber facility in November of 1992. The Go 229 airframe wasn't
there, or at least it wasn't in any of the buildings we were allowed
to see. However, it could very well be tucked away in some forgotten
corner in another building. There was a report that the Go 229 is now
in Germany, where is is undergoing restoration work. Anyone know for
sure?

Source: Warplanes of the Third Reich, William Green. Doubleday, New
York, 1970.

Joe Baugher **************************************
AT&T Bell Laboratories * "You see, something's going to *
2000 North Naperville Road * happen. Something wonderful!" *
P. O. Box 3033 **************************************
Naperville, Illinois 60566-7033
(708) 713 4548
intgp1!jfb Who, me? Speak for AT&T? Surely you jest!
j...@intgp1.att.com

More probably the Horten 9 (there are other numbers associated with it
also, and Gotha had a hand in there) - there is the occaisional series
of postings here about it, together with all the other German "might-
have-beens".

Can't help with much more, but I'm sure someone will!

Mike Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand
mi...@aloysius.equinox.gen.nz

In addition to lots of nice pictures of German aircraft captured and
flown by the Soviets, there is also a chapter on the prototypes and
designes captured including big bomber designs, and the DFS 346
rocket planes. Its a good book and very well done and researched
in Russia.

Dennis Newkirk (den...@ecs.comm.mot.com)
Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector
Schaumburg, IL

I was at the Garber facility two months ago, and saw a big set of
crates marked "Go 229". They were to be shipped back to Germany for
restoration and display over there. Oh, how I desperately wanted to
tear those crates open for a look inside!

-David "Pablo" Cohn work-> MIT Dept. of Brain and Cognitive Sciences
co...@psyche.mit.edu play-> Commonwealth Skyranger NC33395

As with many scientific discoveries, the German designers apparently never
were considering making a stealth fighter, they just stumbled into it by
accident while trying create a flying wing fighter that made from a lot of
wood (non stategic material).
--
Two big, ugly men were here to see you--
they said something about "kneecaps" and
will call later...

>Actually, the Hortens left Germany after the war and resettled in Agentina.

Screwed-up again (what's new?). Walter remained in Europe after the war.
Reimar resided in Argentina.

Soaring, December 1979
Soaring, June 1980, pg 24, Horten X Foot Launched Sailplane
Soaring, August 1980, pg 22-25, Flying Wing Pilot Position and Design Options
Horten Flying Wing in WWII, by HP Dobrowski

Sorry it took so long...