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Chiefs Name Greg Robinson Defensive Coordinator

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Terry May

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Jan 15, 2001, 3:16:54 PM1/15/01
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Chiefs Name Greg Robinson Defensive Coordinator

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JAN 15 (afternoon)--Kansas City Chiefs President Carl Peterson
announced on Monday that head coach Dick Vermeil has named Greg Robinson
as the Chiefs defensive coordinator.

Robinson enters his 26th year in the coaching profession and his 12th
year in the NFL ranks in 2001. The 49-year old Robinson has spent the
last seven seasons as an NFL defensive coordinator, including the past
six years with Denver (‘95-00) where he helped guide the Broncos to
four playoff appearances and a pair of Super Bowl titles. Over that six-
year span, the Broncos compiled an NFL-best 33-15 (.688) record against
division opponents, including an 11-1 mark vs. Oakland and identical 9-
3 ledgers against both San Diego and Seattle.

Vermeil left no doubt that Robinson's familiarity with the AFC West was
a driving force behind his hiring. His record against division
opponents was an important factor. Vermeil was very clear that he does
not see his role as a rebuilder and that his new defensive
coordinator's task will be easier if he knows something about many of
the teams he will face in the coming years.

"This is not an apprentice program," Vermeil said today. "You're
brought in, you put programs together and you're not given a lot of time
to get it done anymore. You used to take a job and think you have five
years to rebuild it. Well, you don't. We're not in a rebuilding program.
Maybe, a little rejuvenation, a little tweaking."

The Broncos defense ranked in the NFL’s top 10 in total defense during
three of Robinson’s six seasons at the helm, finishing seventh in ’99
(297.1 yards per game), fifth in ’97 (291.9 ypg) and fourth in ’96 (279.
4 ypg). Denver’s run defense also ranked in the league’s top 10 three
times during Robinson’s tenure with the Broncos. Denver led the league
in ’96, permitting just 83.2 ground yards per game. During the ‘98
campaign, the Broncos ranked third in the NFL and set a franchise
record by permitting just 80.4 rushing yards per game en route to a
second straight Super Bowl title. In 2000, the Broncos allowed 99.4
rushing yards per game to rank seventh in the league.

Supremacy in the turnover column also marked Robinson’s stay with
Denver. The Broncos were among the NFL’s top five teams in terms of
turnover ratio three of the past four seasons. In 2000, the Broncos
posted a +19 mark to rank second in the league behind only Baltimore
(+23) as Denver racked up 27 interceptions, just one shy of Miami’s
league-best total of 28. During each of the club’s Super Bowl seasons
in ’97 and ’98, the Broncos were +10 in the turnover column, ranking
fourth in ’97 and fifth in ’98. During the ’97 and ’98 playoffs, Denver
combined for a +13 takeaway/giveaway ratio, including a remarkable +12
ratio in ’98.

Opponents averaged less than 20.0 points per game in four of Robinson’s
six seasons at the helm of the Denver defense, producing three top 10
rankings - eighth in ’98 (19.3 ppg), sixth in ’97 (17.9 ppg) and
seventh in ’96 (17.2 ppg). Denver’s pass defense also ranked among the
league’s top 10 teams in four of Robinson’s six seasons with the club,
finishing eighth in ’99 (188.5 ypg), fifth in ’97 (179.3 ypg), tenth in
’96 (196.2 ypg) and ninth in ’95 (206.1 ypg).

Robinson joined the Broncos after a five-year stint with the N.Y. Jets
(‘90-94). He coached defensive line from ‘90-93 and served as defensive
coordinator in ’94 when the Jets ranked eighth in the league by
permitting just 20.0 points per game. Turnovers and a stingy run
defense were also a staple of Robinson’s defense at his first NFL stop.
During his last four years in New York, the Jets defense forced 151
turnovers, most in the AFC and second-most in the NFL during that span.
They also improved from 27th in the league in total defense in ’89 to
eighth in ’93. New York’s rush defense also showed significant
improvement, jumping to a fifth-place ranking (92.1 ypg) after allowing
133.5 yards per game in ’89.

The Los Angeles native spent his first 15 years of coaching in the
collegiate ranks and entered the NFL after an eight-year stint at UCLA
(‘82-89). Robinson was a member of three Rose Bowl champion squads
during his tenure with the Bruins, following the ’82, ’83 and ’85
seasons. He joins the trio of the Chiefs President Carl Peterson, head
coach Dick Vermeil and Vice President of Football Operations Lynn
Stiles as former UCLA coaches now with the Chiefs who coached in a Rose
Bowl victory. Robinson was the Bruins defensive line coach from ‘82-88
before switching sides of the ball and serving as offensive coordinator
in ’89. He had been promoted to assistant head coach for the ’90
season, but opted to join the Jets, instead.

Robinson began his collegiate playing career as a linebacker at
Bakersfield Community College from ‘70-71 before moving on to play
center, tight end and linebacker at the University of Pacific (‘72-74).
After earning his bachelor’s degree in political science in ’75, he
began his coaching career as a graduate assistant at Pacific in ‘75-76.
He made stops at Cal State Fullerton (‘77-79) and North Carolina State
(‘80-81) before moving on to UCLA in ’82.
--
Hail to the Chiefs!

Harry S. Mills

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Jan 15, 2001, 6:02:38 PM1/15/01
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Over the years, I think Robinson did about as good as he could with the
people he had. I don't think the Broncos put as much energy and expertise
into the building of their D as they put into their O while Robinson was
there. Robinson's style is closer to what Gunther always talked about
than anything Kurt Schottenheimer delivered, IMO. Worried about your
corners? Then pressure the QB better.

Todd Warner

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Jan 15, 2001, 10:11:59 PM1/15/01
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Why did Denver get rid of him for? Anybody know of their reasons? Can any
of the Denver Trolls actually be useful and shed some light on this?

"Harry S. Mills" <smi...@heh.com> wrote in message
news:smills-1501...@ppp034.pcrs.net...

Terry May

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Jan 15, 2001, 11:39:07 PM1/15/01
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..At Arrowhead Stadium on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:02:38 -0700,
..smi...@heh.com (Harry S. Mills) passed the following:

I had a feeling you'd like his hire. :^)

Terry May

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Jan 15, 2001, 11:40:28 PM1/15/01
to
..At Arrowhead Stadium on Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:11:59 GMT,
.."Todd Warner" <TOWA...@kscable.com> passed the following:

> Why did Denver get rid of him for? Anybody know of their reasons? Can any
> of the Denver Trolls actually be useful and shed some light on this?

Their defense was awful and he was probably made the scapegoat. Might
have also just been one of those deals where he'd wore out his welcome
and wasn't having the same impact anymore.

Terry May

unread,
Jan 16, 2001, 12:29:54 AM1/16/01
to
..At Arrowhead Stadium on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:02:38 -0700,
..smi...@heh.com (Harry S. Mills) passed the following:

> Over the years, I think Robinson did about as good as he could with the

I had a feeling you'd like his hire. :^)

Adam Smith

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Jan 16, 2001, 8:15:32 AM1/16/01
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Todd Warner <TOWA...@kscable.com> wrote:
> Why did Denver get rid of him for? Anybody know of their reasons? Can any
> of the Denver Trolls actually be useful and shed some light on this?

The Broncos' defense was for the most part awful this year. It's
unclear (to me, anyway) whether this was really Robinson's fault or if
he's just the scapegoat. Also, it's rumored that Shanahan and
Robinson have had a personality conflict for a long time. In the
Broncos' newsgroups e've discussed over and over whether or not
Robinson deserves any credit for the Super Bowl wins, or whether he
was just riding the offense's coattail. We haven't come up with an
answer.

--
Adam Smith

"[Some of the other candidates] were being talked about before the
draft and I wasn't even really mentioned. But that's OK, though,
because it goes to show if you just dedicate yourself to something and
you put a lot of hard work into it, it pays off in the end."

-- Broncos RB Mike Anderson on being named Rookie of the Year by
the Associated Press

KnighThing

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Jan 16, 2001, 10:23:52 AM1/16/01
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I, for one, think this was a terrible hire. Could have had Tobin or
Rhodes and we get the chump who allowed Dillon to break the single game
rushing record!

Out of those three why do you pick the guy who just got canned for not
doing his job!

Vermil's logic was he knew the AFC West, my argument is, he knew the
AFC West and their defense STILL sucked!

I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't like this hire.

M. Zaiem Beg

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Jan 16, 2001, 7:23:15 PM1/16/01
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Todd Warner wrote:

->Why did Denver get rid of him for? Anybody know of their reasons? Can any
->of the Denver Trolls actually be useful and shed some light on this?
->

Woohoo, I get to be useful! :)

I was never a fan of Robinson and I was doing the "woohoo, Robocoach is
fired!" jig as soon as I heard about his release.

Robinson did win two Superbowls with Denver, true. But Greg Robinson is
not the sort of coach who IMHO can run an effective defense without the
benefit of a good offense.

When the Broncos were winning their two Superbowls, Robinson could blitz
all he wanted knowing that the Denver offense would bail him out if there
was a mistake. With the pressure off, Robinson came up with some very
creative and effective blitz packages that confounded opposing offenses.

However without the benefit of an offense that can put up 27-31 points a
game, Robinson has to play it closer to the vest and that's where I think
is his biggest shortcoming. Without the cushion the offense gives him, he
seems to clam up and the defense stops getting pressure to the
quarterback, zones get very soft in the middle, and the corners (argh, the
corners - more on that later) play off the man 5-10 yards, allowing
yardage to be gained on quick outs.

Robinson also doesn't seem to be a very good with gametime adjustments.

Robinson used a gap scheme to stop the run while in Denver. That is, each
player had a specific gap to run in which would plug the lanes for the
runner. The problem with this is that there was
really no room for error. You need to have smart, disciplined players on
every play who don't leave their gap in order to "be the hero", or else
the entire scheme can fall apart quickly. While it's easy to say that the
players should be smart enough to not do this, they also have to worry
about if it's a pass play, coverages, assignments, etc. The result being
that Denver would be very good against the run at some times, and at
others...not so good. (See: Dillon, Corey) It also only works if you have
sound tacklers. The gap scheme can be ridiculously effective if
executed properly. The Ravens do this and they do it better than I have
ever seen any team.

Robinson had a big problem with adjusting the scheme to the personnel. The
Broncos have one of the more talented linebackers in the NFL in John
Mobley (or had, depending on what happens with free agency) and he would
be brilliant - absolutely brilliant! when allowed to rush the
quarterback. But Mobley wasn't really allowed to and he played pass
coverage most of the time. I think that was a complete waste of his
skills.

Robinson is deathly afraid of the bump and run (don't believe him in his
press conference when he said that he's going to use bump and run...I
laughed heartily at that one). He must have had a traumatic experience
in his childhood involving bump and run coverage, or something...because
he really doesn't use it at all. A good example is after Denver signed
Dale Carter. You guys all know that he can be one of the best corners in
the league and he does it by playing tight man coverage and shutting the
receiver down. What does Robinson do with him when they get Carter? They
put him in...zone coverage! Carter looked awful until Shanahan instructed
him to use Carter in man coverages and he looked like a pro-bowler in the
latter part of the season. That's another example of Robinson not
adjusting the scheme to fit the personnel.

He also loves to put the corners 5-10 yards off the line of
scrimmages. And keep them there. Quick outs be damned, he doesn't like to
change that when he gets into that mindset. As a result, teams who
recognized this would just run short dink and dunk patterns and move
methodically down the field. Unless they ran a screen, which a Robinson
defense cannot, absolutely *can not* stop.

Getting pressure to the QB without the aid of a blitz was for the most
part something Denver fans didn't see during his tenure in Denver. If a
lineman got a sack, it was normally due to a blocker being tied up by a
blitzer or occasionally the guy would just get through because he was a
STUD (like Trevor Pryce the last two years).

Robinson's defenses have fared pretty well statistically with the
exception of this year, but they give up big plays and are wildly
inconsistent. This year they were just bad. Tackling was at an all-time
worst, though I don't know how much you can blame that one on
Robinson. However his schemes have been ineffective all year.

With all that negativity, I'll give credit where credit is due. In the
playoffs (this year's Ravens game nonwithstanding) he turned into a
different animal. The defenses went from mediocre to very, very good. His
scheme in Superbowl XXXII is one of the best games I've seen him
call. Yes, the Broncos gave up 24 points but they were going against a
dead-on accurate QB with a brilliant offensive coach. Robinson called for
pressure to get to Favre and rattle him early, and it worked. Steve
Atwater forced a fumble on a blindside hit (Denver safeties don't blitz
much so they weren't expecting him), another blitz forced Favre to throw
an interception to Tyrone Braxton, and while they gave up a three
touchdowns, only one was because of a blown coverage (a scissors pattern
to Antonio Freeman). The other two were perfect throws by Favre (his first
TD pass to Chmura was unreal).

When the Packers were down 7 and driving down the field, Robinson was told
by Shanahan to keep the pressure on and not go into a prevent defense. I
don't know who made the call on the last play of the game, but if it was
Robinson, he's got balls of steel. On the second to last play of the game,
third and six...Favre threw to Robert Brooks but he was sandwiched between
Steve Atwater and Randy Hilliard. Atwater destroyed everyone with a
monster hit, including himself. Hilliard (nickel back), Brooks and Atwater
were all down and had to go out for the final play, fourth and six. On the
same play, Denver's #1 corner Ray Crockett hurt his hamstring and HE had
to go out on the play. Fourth and six with the game on the line with the
Packers in Denver territory and Denver without three defensive
backs *blitzed*! Favre wasn't expecting it and he threw the ball earlier
than he had to. Mobley made a nice play to knock the ball away and it was
game over. If that was Robinson's call, which I think it was...that was a
gutsy call.

He's an inconsistent coach. Some days he'll have this god-awful scheme
that allows the D to get carved up and abused like a red-headed stepchild,
and then after a few games of that he'll come out with this brilliant
flawless gameplan that will befuddle the opposing offense. The problem is
that in Denver, we seemed to see more of the first and less of the second.

Good luck with Robinson. As a Broncos fan, I can say I'm not unhappy that
he went to a division rival.

--
-M. Zaiem Beg
zb...@wolfenet.com


Todd Warner

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Jan 16, 2001, 6:41:59 PM1/16/01
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Thanks for the insight.

Todd Warner


"Adam Smith" <acs...@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:941hhk$7im$4...@news3.bu.edu...

Harry S. Mills

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Jan 16, 2001, 8:45:55 PM1/16/01
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In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101161648420.13730-100000@ionut>, "M. Zaiem
Beg" <zb...@wolfenet.com> wrote:

> I was never a fan of Robinson and I was doing the "woohoo, Robocoach is
> fired!" jig as soon as I heard about his release.

Compared to what I saw in Kurt S., it seemed like the Broncos played
better TEAM D than the Chiefs have the last couple years.

> Robinson did win two Superbowls with Denver, true. But Greg Robinson is
> not the sort of coach who IMHO can run an effective defense without the
> benefit of a good offense.

With a great running game and a solid passing game, the Broncos could put
together LOOOOOONG drives at will. This DID let 'em get away with daring
the other team to throw the ball deep on 'em. They gave up some big plays
during their SB runs, but at worst, they traded a quick score for a long,
grinding scoring drive. Most teams, particularly the teams in the AFC
West, were unable to stretch the field vertically, so this scheme was
ideal for winning games pulling away.

> When the Broncos were winning their two Superbowls, Robinson could blitz
> all he wanted knowing that the Denver offense would bail him out if there
> was a mistake. With the pressure off, Robinson came up with some very
> creative and effective blitz packages that confounded opposing offenses.
>
> However without the benefit of an offense that can put up 27-31 points a
> game, Robinson has to play it closer to the vest and that's where I think
> is his biggest shortcoming. Without the cushion the offense gives him, he
> seems to clam up and the defense stops getting pressure to the
> quarterback, zones get very soft in the middle, and the corners (argh, the
> corners - more on that later) play off the man 5-10 yards, allowing
> yardage to be gained on quick outs.

Ugh! That's been my gripe about Kurt S.

> Robinson also doesn't seem to be a very good with gametime adjustments.

And anOTHER gripe...

> Robinson used a gap scheme to stop the run while in Denver. That is, each
> player had a specific gap to run in which would plug the lanes for the
> runner. The problem with this is that there was
> really no room for error. You need to have smart, disciplined players on
> every play who don't leave their gap in order to "be the hero", or else
> the entire scheme can fall apart quickly. While it's easy to say that the
> players should be smart enough to not do this, they also have to worry
> about if it's a pass play, coverages, assignments, etc. The result being
> that Denver would be very good against the run at some times, and at
> others...not so good. (See: Dillon, Corey) It also only works if you have
> sound tacklers. The gap scheme can be ridiculously effective if
> executed properly. The Ravens do this and they do it better than I have
> ever seen any team.

I don't think the 1-gap puts any more pressure on the players than any
other scheme. In fact, it simplifies a lot of things for most of them.
Against Corey Dillon, they ran the run-blitz almost every down. They
SHOULD have snuffed him. That they didn't says more to me about their
front line (especially their ends) failing to match up and make tackles.
It's one thing if they stack up against the run and get burned downfield.
It's another thing entirely if they stack up against the run and get
burned by the run.

> Robinson had a big problem with adjusting the scheme to the personnel. The
> Broncos have one of the more talented linebackers in the NFL in John
> Mobley (or had, depending on what happens with free agency) and he would
> be brilliant - absolutely brilliant! when allowed to rush the
> quarterback. But Mobley wasn't really allowed to and he played pass
> coverage most of the time. I think that was a complete waste of his
> skills.
>
> Robinson is deathly afraid of the bump and run (don't believe him in his
> press conference when he said that he's going to use bump and run...I
> laughed heartily at that one). He must have had a traumatic experience
> in his childhood involving bump and run coverage, or something...because
> he really doesn't use it at all. A good example is after Denver signed
> Dale Carter. You guys all know that he can be one of the best corners in
> the league and he does it by playing tight man coverage and shutting the
> receiver down. What does Robinson do with him when they get Carter? They
> put him in...zone coverage! Carter looked awful until Shanahan instructed
> him to use Carter in man coverages and he looked like a pro-bowler in the
> latter part of the season. That's another example of Robinson not
> adjusting the scheme to fit the personnel.

At 180 lbs, Carter never was big on the bump. He could just stick with a
guy and close on the ball better than 'most anybody in the league. Of
course, Robinson didn't have Carter in '00. And he didn't have Tory
James, either. As for Darrien Gordon, I think he played FS for Oakland
last year. Carter used to be pretty good in run support, too, and he even
blitzed on occasion in "the old days," but he's not as complete a player
when he gives cushion. I don't think ANY NFL-caliber CB is, but I'm
pretty biased.

> He also loves to put the corners 5-10 yards off the line of
> scrimmages. And keep them there. Quick outs be damned, he doesn't like to
> change that when he gets into that mindset. As a result, teams who
> recognized this would just run short dink and dunk patterns and move
> methodically down the field. Unless they ran a screen, which a Robinson
> defense cannot, absolutely *can not* stop.

I wish you wouldn't say that.

> Getting pressure to the QB without the aid of a blitz was for the most
> part something Denver fans didn't see during his tenure in Denver. If a
> lineman got a sack, it was normally due to a blocker being tied up by a
> blitzer or occasionally the guy would just get through because he was a
> STUD (like Trevor Pryce the last two years).

Denver didn't have a DL that COULD get to the QB without help. Those few
DLs that CAN nowadays are suspect against the run, generally giving up too
much mass at the point of attack. Neil Smith was one of those rare 300-lb
DEs who could ALso finish the QB sack by himself. By the time he left KC,
he was still getting upfield, but was no longer a serious threat to track
down the QB on his own. And Neil Smith was getting more pressure on the
QB than any of Denver's DLs (although Smith and Williams made a pretty
good pair of ends for the Broncos in the '97 playoffs).

> Robinson's defenses have fared pretty well statistically with the
> exception of this year, but they give up big plays and are wildly
> inconsistent. This year they were just bad. Tackling was at an all-time
> worst, though I don't know how much you can blame that one on
> Robinson. However his schemes have been ineffective all year.

They lost Dale Carter with no compensation in '00. Pitman brings an extra
step from the DE slot, but he lacks power. Their secondary was in flux.
Lots of excuses for what Robinson's D did (or didn't do). I don't think
he's ever had as much talent and depth on D as the Chiefs have had most
years. OTOH, I definitely hear what you're saying about Mobley.

> With all that negativity, I'll give credit where credit is due. In the
> playoffs (this year's Ravens game nonwithstanding) he turned into a
> different animal. The defenses went from mediocre to very, very good. His
> scheme in Superbowl XXXII is one of the best games I've seen him
> call.

The D talent was also peaking about that time. Both A. Williams and N.
Smith were healthier in the playoffs than they had been all year. IIRC,
they struggled all or most of '97 with triceps injuries.

> Yes, the Broncos gave up 24 points but they were going against a
> dead-on accurate QB with a brilliant offensive coach. Robinson called for

> pressure to get to Favre and rattle him early, and it worked...

... stealing a page from the Chiefs, who showed neither Favre nor Steve
Young ANY respect. Guys like that are as good as they are because they
beat the blitz enough times for most DCs to abandon it. I hate that.
"We'd play aggressive but we're afraid of you."

Some, but not all of what you're saying, I can fairly easily explain away
as personnel issues. Every offseason, I've always been guardedly
optimistic that KC's coordinators would learn by their mistakes and/or get
the talent they'd need to make it all gel. This year, I'm just gonna wait
until they play. I'm thru being optimistic.



> Good luck with Robinson. As a Broncos fan, I can say I'm not unhappy that
> he went to a division rival.

I think that the Broncos still have some rebuilding to do on D. IIRC,
they'll get some compensation in the draft for Dale Carter's implosion.

M. Zaiem Beg

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Jan 17, 2001, 12:48:00 AM1/17/01
to
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Harry S. Mills wrote:

->With a great running game and a solid passing game, the Broncos could put
->together LOOOOOONG drives at will. This DID let 'em get away with daring
->the other team to throw the ball deep on 'em. They gave up some big plays
->during their SB runs, but at worst, they traded a quick score for a long,
->grinding scoring drive. Most teams, particularly the teams in the AFC
->West, were unable to stretch the field vertically, so this scheme was
->ideal for winning games pulling away.

Right, not so ideal if you don't have the offensive ability to do
that. Also Denver scored so quickly that during the 98-99 season Denver
would be up by 2 or 3 or 4 touchdowns early that the defense would have
free reign to do whatever they wanted. This is when Robinson was best.

->other scheme. In fact, it simplifies a lot of things for most of them.
->Against Corey Dillon, they ran the run-blitz almost every down. They
->SHOULD have snuffed him. That they didn't says more to me about their
->front line (especially their ends) failing to match up and make tackles.
->It's one thing if they stack up against the run and get burned downfield.
->It's another thing entirely if they stack up against the run and get
->burned by the run.

you know that the Bengals didn't have a *single* passing play in the
second half? Not one. And Denver *still* couldn't stop the Bengals even
when they knew exactly what was coming.

->At 180 lbs, Carter never was big on the bump. He could just stick with a
->guy and close on the ball better than 'most anybody in the league. Of
->course, Robinson didn't have Carter in '00. And he didn't have Tory
->James, either. As for Darrien Gordon, I think he played FS for Oakland
->last year. Carter used to be pretty good in run support, too, and he even
->blitzed on occasion in "the old days," but he's not as complete a player
->when he gives cushion. I don't think ANY NFL-caliber CB is, but I'm
->pretty biased.

Thing is that people saw Carter as a total bust in 99 because he "sucked",
when really he was being improperly used. As soon as Carter was used the
way he was in KC, he went right back to pro-bowl form. Why it took
Robinson so long to make the adjustment is beyond me.

FYI, Gordon was the nickel back in Oakland last year.

->> recognized this would just run short dink and dunk patterns and move
->> methodically down the field. Unless they ran a screen, which a Robinson
->> defense cannot, absolutely *can not* stop.
->
->I wish you wouldn't say that.

Oh, but it's so true. Beware the screen, especially. The screen is death
to a Robinson scheme. Dink and dunk kills.

->Denver didn't have a DL that COULD get to the QB without help. Those few
->DLs that CAN nowadays are suspect against the run, generally giving up too
->much mass at the point of attack. Neil Smith was one of those rare 300-lb
->DEs who could ALso finish the QB sack by himself. By the time he left KC,
->he was still getting upfield, but was no longer a serious threat to track
->down the QB on his own. And Neil Smith was getting more pressure on the
->QB than any of Denver's DLs (although Smith and Williams made a pretty
->good pair of ends for the Broncos in the '97 playoffs).

True, Neil Smith was able to create decent pressure from the end without
much help. I'm willing to write that off as a personnel problem. I don't
know how much input he had with the selection of the d-line personnel in
Denver, but that has been a weakness of that defense the last couple of
years.

->They lost Dale Carter with no compensation in '00. Pitman brings an extra
->step from the DE slot, but he lacks power. Their secondary was in flux.
->Lots of excuses for what Robinson's D did (or didn't do). I don't think
->he's ever had as much talent and depth on D as the Chiefs have had most
->years. OTOH, I definitely hear what you're saying about Mobley.

For what it's worth, Shanahan said that he felt this was the most talented
his defense had been. I don't know if I agree with that...actually I
don't. The talent on D was definitely not exactly on par with the Ravens',
and I think Denver's poor defensive ranking this year has a lot to do with
shoddy tackling and bad secondary play, which is not something you can
blame entirely on Robinson. But there were definitely other times when the
Broncos would just go through a string of bad calls. Once the Broncos got
an opponent to third and long, Robinson would get super cute and call the
most idiotic plays. Soft zones leaving large pockets 15 yards down the
field on third and 12 was my favorite. Time and time again, the Broncos
would be burned because they would be out in some ridiculous prevent zone.

->The D talent was also peaking about that time. Both A. Williams and N.
->Smith were healthier in the playoffs than they had been all year. IIRC,
->they struggled all or most of '97 with triceps injuries.

Good memory. Triceps tears for both of them.

->... stealing a page from the Chiefs, who showed neither Favre nor Steve
->Young ANY respect. Guys like that are as good as they are because they
->beat the blitz enough times for most DCs to abandon it. I hate that.
->"We'd play aggressive but we're afraid of you."

This is true, and Robinson has never had that problem. He's never been
intimidated by the opposing QB, even if he's getting torched
repeatedly. :) That's a definite positive.

->Some, but not all of what you're saying, I can fairly easily explain away
->as personnel issues. Every offseason, I've always been guardedly
->optimistic that KC's coordinators would learn by their mistakes and/or get
->the talent they'd need to make it all gel. This year, I'm just gonna wait
->until they play. I'm thru being optimistic.

Good plan. =-) I think Vermeil is going to get away from the
ultra-conservitivity that's been KC's limitation. Abolishing RBC would be
a good start.

->I think that the Broncos still have some rebuilding to do on D. IIRC,
->they'll get some compensation in the draft for Dale Carter's implosion.
->

For Carter? They won't. They made a poor judgement call and it's Denver's
fault. Carter is under contract for next year and may or may not be
released June 1st. Great talent, awful attitude.

I would say most Denver fans are probably very happy with the upgrade from
Robinson to Ray Rhodes.

The other thing is that I think Denver's offense is precisely the perfect
offense to abuse Greg Robinson's defensive scheme. Assuming TD is healthy
next year, Robinson's gap defense has to work perfectly because one
mistake will fall right into TD and the o-line's playing style. Griese's
also shown he can beat the blitz, especially if they're poorly-timed or
executed.

Gruden could be going to Ohio State, new coach in KC, Denver's d-man goes
to KC, Denver gets Ray Rhodes, San Diego gets Norv Turner, Michael Vick
will probably be in the division....it'll be a *very* interesting year in
the division next year. :)

Harry S. Mills

unread,
Jan 17, 2001, 9:28:13 PM1/17/01
to
In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101162229570.13730-100000@ionut>, "M. Zaiem
Beg" <zb...@wolfenet.com> wrote:

> The other thing is that I think Denver's offense is precisely the perfect
> offense to abuse Greg Robinson's defensive scheme. Assuming TD is healthy
> next year, Robinson's gap defense has to work perfectly because one
> mistake will fall right into TD and the o-line's playing style. Griese's
> also shown he can beat the blitz, especially if they're poorly-timed or
> executed.

I think the keys are talent and an attacking style. I think the Chiefs
and Robinson are a good marriage seen in those terms. To my eye, they
have a lot more talent up front on D than Denver has had right along.
What seems to have been lacking in KC is a solid team concept. Something
like your description of Robinson's schemes sounds like just what the
Chiefs need.

What I've seen in Robinson's defenses (for the most part) are
well-disciplined units, whose players understand their roles and trust
their teammates to understand theirs. The failures (and there've been
some) were more because of physical limitations than because of mental
mistakes.

I'm the kind of fan who wants the better team to win. I'd rather see a
tactically sound D/O be out-executed than an unsound team make tactical
mistakes trying to cover their weaknesses. To me, the games are the
players' to be won or lost. I hate it when a know-it-all coordinator
complicates things to the point where mental errors become a big factor,
and that's how I felt about Kurt S. Rather than unLEASHing talent, it
seemed like his schemes had the LBs and DBs always 2nd-guessing
themselves: "Should I have lined up 2 feet closer to the line before the
snap?" rather than just "That's my gap" or "That's my guy."

Anyhoo, your point about Griese is well-taken, but I think that Clemons
and Hicks bring enough speed off the DE slot to give him problems. And,
frankly, all they need is one good hit and Frerotten's the signal-caller.
Griese has everything I look for in a solid QB, except size and
durability. His lateral movement offsets his lack of size just fine, but
he just hasn't been durable.

> Gruden could be going to Ohio State, new coach in KC, Denver's d-man goes
> to KC, Denver gets Ray Rhodes, San Diego gets Norv Turner, Michael Vick
> will probably be in the division....it'll be a *very* interesting year in
> the division next year. :)

I think the OSU deal has been nixed.

Ted Johnson

unread,
Jan 19, 2001, 12:11:19 PM1/19/01
to

"Harry S. Mills" <smi...@heh.com> wrote in message
news:smills-1601...@ppp009.pcrs.net...

Chuckle. *Me Too!*
Of Course, that doesn't mean either of us is pessimistic.

Ted


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