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Opposing Views For all our opponents who want to argue with White Nationalists.

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Old 04-24-2003, 09:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jews are white

Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Fury
just because hitler hated them doesnt mean you have to. jews are white. nuff said.

anyone who disagrees with me is a moron.
Ah, yes Freddy-Boy. In your whopping 23 years of life you've got it ALL figured out, eh? Despite the above proclamation as to the mental capacity of those who disagree with you, the content of your post clearly demonstrates exactly who the moron is.
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:13 PM   #12
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why isnt he banbned yet ?
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:29 PM   #13
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"blah
You are pure white Muad dib right? If you converted to judaism would you still be white?
genetically yes...mentally no IMO"

If someone converts to the worship of Satan, should we really embrace them?
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Old 04-24-2003, 10:45 PM   #14
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jews killed 80 million of my people and thats not forgivable
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jews are white

Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Fury
just because hitler hated them doesnt mean you have to. jews are white. nuff said.

anyone who disagrees with me is a moron.
An individual is allowed to have opinions. The opinions can be based on facts or observations. I do not see the need to argue about an insignificant group of people like the jews. I have known good and bad jews. My observations and the actions of the active jews indicate that the majority are Zionist that do not care for those not of Hebrew origin.

One has the right to follow one's own belief. When one follows one's beliefs, one is not a moron. However, one that wishes to save the white race should concentrate on ideas that are common not on ideas that go against the strong beliefs of others.

The true question that one must ponder is: "Can the white race be victorious?" Victory and acceptance of the ideas of White Nationalism will depend on how the evolution of the ideas. The victories will once again belong to the white race when the white race wakes up and realizes how to achieve support from the majority. We, the white race, as a people must unite on common footing where our rights can be returned.

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Old 04-24-2003, 11:46 PM   #16
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Dear Fred Fury: The excerpt below is just a fraction of what is on the link immediately below. This is a Jewish site which provides all of the links to the (mostly Jewish) research below which unanimously concludes that both the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews are of Middle Eastern, and not European, ancestry. The linked site contains all of the hyperlinks to the actual published research. I hope that the research of these largely Jewish geneticists in proving conclusively that their people are of Middle Eastern ancestry is rigorous enough for you. It was for their peer reviewers.

http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/jews.html#howcan

Quote:
How can you prove that todays Jews are real Jews - descendants of the original Jews and heirs to the Land of Israel, and not just converts from the lands in which they lived during the last few centuries?

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
- M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000


In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline.
Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.

Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B

Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.

[Medline record in process]

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

PMID: 10801975, UI: 20300976
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74


The common, Near-Eastern origin of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews supported by Y-chromosome similarity.

Santachiara Benerecetti AS, Semino O, Passarino G, Torroni A, Brdicka R, Fellous M, Modiano G

Dipartimento di Biologia Cellulare, Universita della Calabria, Cosenza, Italy.

About 80 Sephardim, 80 Ashkenazim and 100 Czechoslovaks were examined for the Y-specific RFLPs revealed by the probes p12f2 and p49a,f on TaqI DNA digests. The aim of the study was to investigate the origin of the Ashkenazi gene pool through the analysis of markers which, having an exclusively holoandric transmission, are useful to estimate paternal gene flow. The comparison of the two groups of Jews with each other and with Czechoslovaks (which have been taken as a representative source of foreign Y-chromosomes for Ashkenazim) shows a great similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim who are very different from Czechoslovaks. On the other hand both groups of Jews appear to be closely related to Lebanese. A preliminary evaluation suggests that the contribution of foreign males to the Ashkenazi gene pool has been very low (1% or less per generation).

Ann Hum Genet 1993 Jan;57 ( Pt 1):55-64
PMID: 8101437, UI: 93325982

Molecular analysis of HLA-B27 haplotypes in Caucasoids. Frequencies of B27-Cw in Jewish and Spanish populations.

Gonzalez-Roces S, Brautbar C, Pena M, Dominguez O, Coto E, Alvarez V, Segal R, Lopez-Larrea C

Department of Immunology, Hospital Central de Asturias, Oviedo, Spain.

PCR in combination with SSO probes was used to analyze the polymorphism in exons 2 and 3 of HLA-B27 subtypes and HLA-C-related alleles in two genetically distant Caucasian groups: Spanish and Jewish populations. AS patients and healthy B27 donors from both populations were analyzed in order to ascertain B27-Cw haplotypes. Three different ancestral haplotypes were found to be represented in both populations: B*2705/Cw*0102, B*2705/Cw*02022, and B*2702/Cw*02022. The B*2705 (92.5%) was the most frequent allele found in the Spanish population, carried by B*2705/Cw*0102 (60.9%) and B2705/Cw*02022 (30.4%) haplotypes. In contrast, B*2702 (59.4%) was the most prevalent allele found in the Jewish population and was carried by the B*2702/Cw*02022 (63.3%) haplotype. No different allelic and haplotypic distributions were among healthy and AS patients in either Spanish or Jewish populations. The differences found in the distribution of B27 haplotypes among Spanish and Jewish Caucasian populations are consistent with the genetic distance of these ethnic groups. When the Jewish population was subdivided into Ashkenazi (A) and non-Ashkenazi (NA) groups, no significant differences were observed in the distribution of B*2702/Cw*02022 haplotype. Minor differences were observed in the underrepresented B*2705 haplotypes. The present results reflect the ancestral affinities of A and NA Jewish populations. A possible HLA-B27 evolutive pathway in Caucasians is proposed according to the data available for the B27/Cw ancestral haplotypes in Spanish and Jewish groups.

Hum Immunol 1994 Oct;41(2):127-34
PMID: 7860357, UI: 95164258

mtDNA polymorphism in two communities of Jews.

Tikochinski Y, Ritte U, Gross SR, Prager EM, Wilson AC

Department of Genetics, Hebrew University, Jerusalem.

Twenty-one types of mtDNA were found in a survey of 39 Israeli Jews, of whom 18 were Sephardic and 21 Ashkenazic. The survey was made with six restriction enzymes that together recognize an average of 600 bp/genome. The differences among the types appear to be due to base substitution at 19 cleavage sites, one deletion, and one conformational mutation. The numbers of differences imply that these modern Jews stem from a minimum of 21 maternal lineages that were already distinct from one another 4,000-5,000 years ago. In three of the four cases where a type was found in more than one person, it occurred in both Ashkenazic and Sephardic populations. The diversity of types in the combined sample of two Jewish populations is lower than both that in a sample from various parts of Africa and that in asample from various parts of East Asia. Nevertheless, it is as high as that in a sample from diverse parts of New Guinea, an area much larger than that in Israel to which the Jewish population traces back.

Am J Hum Genet 1991 Jan;48(1):129-36
PMID: 1670749, UI: 91090099

Molecular analysis of HLA class II polymorphisms among different ethnic groups in Israel.

Amar A, Kwon OJ, Motro U, Witt CS, Bonne-Tamir B, Gabison R, Brautbar C

Tissue Typing Unit, Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical Organization, Jerusalem, Israel.

The Jewish population in Israel comprises of inhabitants of heterogeneous ethnic backgrounds. Genetic studies classify the Israeli Jewish population into two major groups: Ashkenazi from Central and Eastern Europe and Sephardic or non Ashkenazi, from the Mediterranean and North Africa. The present study was aimed at elucidating the differential influx of HLA class II alleles in Ashkenazi, in various non-Ashkenazi subgroups and in Israeli Moslem Arabs. Using the PCR-SSOP technique, a large number of alleles were detected at each of the loci examined (DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1). In addition, gene frequencies, characteristic DR/DQ linkage disequilibria, population distance and their corresponding dendogram, were used to study the relationship between Israelis as a group, non Jewish Caucasians and Blacks. These populations could be grouped into three main clusters: the first consists of all the Israeli groups with the exception of the Ethiopian Jews; the second consists of non Jewish Caucasians, with a clear distinction seen between Israelis and non Jewish Europeans and U.S. Caucasians; the third, composed of Blacks, is distinctly different from the other populations. Ethiopian Jews were found to be closer to the Blacks than to any of the Israeli Jewish groups. We have shown that Jews share common features, a fact that points to a common ancestry. A certain degree of admixture with their pre-immigration neighbors exists despite the cultural and religious constraints against intermarriage.

Hum Immunol 1999 Aug;60(8):723-30
PMID: 10439318, UI: 99368173

Y-chromosome-specific haplotypes of Jews detected by probes 49f and 49a.

Lucotte G, David F

Laboratory of Molecular Anthropology, (CEABH), Paris, France.

A sample of Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews has been studied with respect to haplotypes at the 49f-49a Y-specific DNA probes. Only seven haplotypes were found in Jews, three of them (VII, VIII, and XI) being the most widespread. Haplotype distribution in the European non-Jewish population is different.

PMID: 1398615, UI: 93013714
Hum Biol 1992 Oct;64(5):757-61

Population genetic studies on Jews. I. The alpha 2HS serum glycoprotein, a polymorphism strongly correlated with latitude.

Domenici R, Spinetti I, Bargagna M, Morpurgo GP, Levi M, Bar-Shanny S, Modiano G

Dipartimento di Biomedicina Sperimentale Infettiva e Pubblica, Universita di Pisa, Italy.

A sample of Jews subdivided according to the birth-place of their parents or grand-parents have been examined for a large number of genetic markers in the course of a long-term project on the genetics of Jews. We report here the findings concerning 794 Jews studied for the AHSG polymorphism. All the subsamples were in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium. A highly significant difference was found between Sephardic + Near East Jews and Ashkenazi (AHSG*2 frequencies: 0.184 +/- 0.015 and 0.258 +/- 0.016, respectively). For comparative purposes the data available on Caucasoids have been considered. It turned out that they were neatly arranged along a latitude-AHSG gene frequency cline (0.0092 of AHSG*2 gene frequency increase per degree of increase of latitude) in the explored 30 degrees-60 degrees range (r = 0.97; P much less than 0.001). Of the two Jewish frequencies that could be taken into consideration because of their sufficient sizes, that of the Near East + Sephardic Jews was perfectly in line with the above mentioned cline, while that of the Ashkenazi was somewhat displaced in the sense of being more similar than expected to the other, more southern, Jewish group. Since the only AHSG*2 frequency significantly displaced from the regression line is that of the Ashkenazi, whose ancestors lived until centuries ago in more southern areas, this finding is a strong confirmation of the observed cline.

PMID: 2101257, UI: 91322046
Gene Geogr 1990 Aug;4(2):99-111

HLA DR and DQ polymorphism in Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews: comparison with other Mediterraneans.

Martinez-Laso J, Gazit E, Gomez-Casado E, Morales P, Martinez-Quiles N, Alvarez M, Martin-Villa JM, Fernandez V, Arnaiz-Villena A

Department of Immunology, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.

HLA-DR and DQ alleles have been detected by DNA typing in Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews from Israel. Allele frequencies, characteristic DR/DQ linkage disequilibria, population distances and their corresponding dendrogram by using the Neighbor-Joining method were used to study relatedness between Jewish and other Mediterranean and non Mediterranean populations. Closest relatedness is observed between Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews, and, in decreasing order, also with Algerians, Spaniards (including Spanish-Basques), French and Italians. Also, particular characteristic Central European alleles are observed in Ashkenazi Jews and Mediterranean/African alleles in non-Ashkenazi Jews. This is consistent with historical data, Jews being an ancient Mediterranean population, who have had a certain degree of admixture with their 2000-3000 years old neighbors in spite of cultural and religious traditions which have preserved identity outside Israel.

PMID: 8929714, UI: 97083140
Tissue Antigens 1996 Jan;47(1):63-71

- The above abstracts were compiled from Entrez-PubMed and italices added by Dr. Steven Ruttenberg, Institute for Molecular Geneology at the Center for Ethnic Jewish Studies, Ramat Aviv, Israel.

What about the Khazars? I heard about this Kingdom between the Black and Caspian seas who converted to Judaism. Aren't modern Jews descended from them?

INTRO
Many anti-Semites complain that modern Jews are not the Biblical Jews but are descended from the Khazars. The Khazars converted to Judaism and thus modern day Jews, it is claimed, are imposters who have no claim on the Land of Israel, Eretz Yisrael.

WHO WERE THE KHAZARS?

The Khazars were a confederation of Turkish tribes who established a major commercial empire in the second half of the 6th century. As a trading nation, they were faced with a dilemma; tile Christians would not trade freely with Muslim nations, and the Muslim nations would not trade freely with the Christian nations. The Khazars did not want to be recognized as being more partial to one faith than the other. Therefore, around 740 C.E., King Bulan adopted Judaism, and thus, as a "neutral" people, the Khazars could trade more freely with both the Christian and Muslim nations that bordered Khazaria.

Their Judaism - limited no doubt in any case to a comparitively small group (only the king, his attendants and the Khazars of his kind) - was always superficial and they were liable to relapse into paganism. They became what could best be called Judaized Turks. Religious toleration was maintained for the Kingdom's 300 years, with clear traces of Christianity being found among them for the whole historical period. The predominating element in the country were the Muslims, and they formed the royal army(3). In the 10th century, "probably in 965, Khazar leaders appealed to a neighbouring Islamic state for help against invasion but were told that the price of assistance was Khazaria's conversion to Islam. According to Muslim historians the kingdom that had embraced Judaism around 740 suddenly abandoned it less than two and a half centuries later. But this did not save them and by the end of the eleventh century the Khazar empire was no more."(1) There are persistent references to the Khazars as Muslims after A.D. 965(3).

To encourage their own people, Jewish writers have tended to exaggerate the importance of the Khazar conversions to Judaism, leaving out unpalatable facts. The smallest group among the Khazars were the Jews, most of them being Muslims and Christians. The king and his court were Jews for much of their 300 years history and because religious toleration was maintained many persecuted Jews fled there. The fact is that rather than convince themselves by the 10th century that they were Jews descended from Abraham, they found it expedient to convert to Islam.

On the linguistic side, well known Turcologist, A.N.Poliak, regards the Karaite Jews in Poland and the Crimea as the principal present-day representatives of the ancient Khazars, (Karaitism is a minor sect of Judaism quite distinct from mainstream Judaisni) and 'investigations have tended to establish the absence of western influences in Yiddish, though on the other hand affinities with German dialects of the east and south-east have been indicated.'(3)

From the thirteenth century there came a great movement across the face of Europe, which was to continue for the next four centuries, to the hospitable lands of Poland and Lithuania.(5)' 'For long generations, therefore, Poland continued to appear in the light of a land of promise for the Jews of northern Europe, and to receive a perpetual accession of new settlers - refugees escaping from massacre, young men seeking opportunity, merchants from as far afield as Italy or the Balkans. In 1500, the number of Jews in the country is estimated to have been only 50,000 souls; a century and a half later, it had risen to half a million. ...so from the beginning of the sixteenth century the overwhelming mass if Askenazic Jewry, the remants of the communities of medieval england and France and Germany with others from further afield - became concentrated in Poland and the surrounding Slavonic territories. It is from them that the majority of the Jews in the world today are descended." (4).

- modified from Did Modern Jews Descend from the Khazers? by David S. Maddison, www.hatewatch.org

(1) Abba Eban, (1984). Heritage, Civilisation and the Jews
(2) Martin Gilbert, (1969). Jewish History Atlas
(3) D.M. Dunlop, (1987). The History of the Jewish Khazars
(4) Cecil Roth, (1970). A History of the Jews
(5) Chaim Bermant, (1977). The Jews
(13) David J. Goldberg and John D. Rayner, (1987). The Jewish People,Their History and Their Religion.




If Jews share common ancestry, why don't they all look the same?

Do all cousins look the same? No? They are just 2 generations apart. Jews were last united in a their common homeland perhaps 80 generations ago.



If they are all related, why don't they have genetic problems like when brothers and sisters or cousins marry and have kids?

The popular term for this concept is 'inbreeding'. It is caused by a reduction in genetic variation due to population bottleneck, genetic drift, or strong selection pressures. Examples of inbred animals include racehorses and showdogs. Among humans, Jews have the dubious honor of being the single most studied ethnicity in terms of genetic problems. This is a product of the Diaspora experience, and one reason why Jews from all the 100 nations of the Diaspora should find Jewish mates not from their own Diaspora lands.

http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/jews.html#howcan
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MuadDib


In 6 years, 2 months, I will be able to retire from my job. I will then "convert" to judaism. I have researched, with that plan in mind, for several years. I will become the opposite of the converso.



Have you ever been to a synogague? I have. I go every couple months to the Temple Sinai. I want them to get used to seeing me. "All are welcome," the sign says. Funny, but I don't feel very welcomed.

I put on the stupid yarmulke and watch and listen. Last Saturday morning (Easter weekend) was especially interesting. The topic - What killed Jesus.


Try it sometime. Get a glimpse of the "love" the juden have for others. See how it feels to be a mere "tolerated stupid goy." See how it feels to know that you are a "welcomed" guest that is truly unwanted.
It must be terrible to you, to be there, i know it would be for me. You're brave guy. And that plan of your's sounds very interesting, i would love to read more about it, but perhaps you shouldn't be very explicit in a public forum.
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by madole
Fred Fury says that any one who disagrees with him is a moron. This is the typical attitude of the conservative pro american anti racist buffoons of the Rush Limbaugh school. Having read some of the back posts of Mr. Fury it is apparent that he is no racial nationalist but rather what I would describe as a conservative republican and therefore part of the problem. For what its worth I disagree with just about everything that Mr. Fury has posted and I'm not a moron nor am I an arrogant lout that calls into question the intellect of everyone that dares hold an opinion contrary to mine. From my perspective anyone that is not aware of the jewish problem is although not necessarilly a moron a person of limited knowledge.
I dont want to say I told you so about this guy, but I did, didn't I?
I had him pegged from day one.

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Old 04-25-2003, 01:03 AM   #19
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Charles Lindbergh, I disagree with what the jews say about themselves and their supposed common ancestory. The jews say they had a common homeland about 80 generations ago. I say that when the jews first appear on the scene of world history they were a multiethnic people. They never had a common homeland ; this is a myth that they have created as is the statement that the karaites were descended from the khazars. There are many jews from the horn of Africa and from Yemen that have black skin and woolly hair and therefore must have a different biological background than other jews admittedly few in number that have blond hair and blue eyes. Although most jews no doubt have a middle eastern ancestry the middle east is today and was two thousand years ago a motley racial mix.
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Old 04-25-2003, 01:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: Jews are white

Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Fury

anyone who disagrees with me is a moron.


Hmmmmm i am afraid to respond to you, your choice of words and your complex mental habilities are mesmerizing, i am sure your IQ is over 150, no no no no, i declare myself unable to respond to your amazing and tought provoking words.
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