The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

Bottomline, Biblical Christianity will continue with or without Obama or Mcain

obama is a fake christian

obama is a fake christian

obama is a fake christian

The frightening thing about Christians is that they "should" have had a return of Jesus eight years ago; but they change the calendar anda events as it suits them.

They also try and affect the dealings in the Middle-East to say "see we told you so!" No religion has the right to dictate the affairs of a country. Religion is something to be practiced in the home.

I've said before, keep your religion in your own home and keep it off the airways, so nuts like Dobson, Graham, Roberts and Baker can't build religious empires that control more than the wallets of their congregations. Come on American when will you grow up and stop believing in fairy tales!? If you want religion rent a Peter Pan movie, it has as much religion as the bible and has a message in the end.

We'll miss you George Carlan.

CarolTate2,

You say that Cain is the child of Satan and Eve. That is so false. Read the Bible. Genesis 4:1 says,

Genesis 4 (New American Standard Version)
Cain and Abel
1Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."-man child.

Hmm...man? Adam. Child. Cain. Oh I see where you made that out to be Satan and Eve having children. Wait...nope pretty sure your theory doesn't add up. Let's look at other translations.

Genesis 4-King James Version
1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Genesis 4-New International Version
Cain and Abel
1 Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man."

Genesis 4-The Message Translation
1 Adam slept with Eve his wife. She conceived and had Cain. She said, "I've gotten a man, with God's help!"

Wow! Why would you say something so ignorant? That stinks of Simon Ferguson's bad teaching such as found on angelfire.com. I get angry when people do the type of thing that you did, because it is obvious that you did not spend a great deal of time studying the topic you proceeded to type about. Because of this you misrepresented the scriptures to everyone who read your postings. I think it is obvious that just because someone mentions the Bible does not mean they are a Biblical expert. I encourage anyone who read those comments made by Carole to study for yourself. If you have questions find someone who studies the Bible and LIVES the Bible daily and ask them your questions.

The anti christ doesn't win the world over by acting like he is Jesus. He brings military peace to Israel and it's enemies. 2 Thessolonians, Daniel, and Revelation mention that halfway through a seven year peace treaty that he has led between Israel and it's enemies, he will go into the temple and declare that he is God. He then proceeds to attempt to kill the remaining Jews and Christian converts in the final 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation. Jesus does return at the end of the tribulation to end the violence and sin.

Mischanova, Sequoia, Constitution:It's not a dirty word,

Mischavnova, you are correct to say that the spirit of the antichrist is spoken of in 1 and 2 John. The spirit of the antichrist is the rejection or opposition to anything that is truth about Jesus. I will add that you will find mention of this spirit that will be and is active in the world around us in all of the new testament. You need to be careful when making such presumptuous comments about what is right and what is wrong because the books of the Bible I mentioned that talk about the antichrist clearly mention what his character, background, and motives will be. Daniel mentions him in chapter 7, Revelation various times as well but you can look directly at chapter 13, Zechariah in chapter 11:15-17, he is mentioned in Isaiah chapter 14, 2 Thessolonians chapter 2, I could go on and on and on. Your comment was very lacking. My real goal in pointing out the mistake in the first place was not to put someone in their place, but to squash a very erroneous assumption about the character of the Anti Christ. I wasn't mad at the person I was responding to. I was just correcting them. As for you, get your facts straight before you get in someones face about something you demonstrate little to no knowledge about.

Sequoia, yeah... you're out there. Your comments lack substance so badly that they cannot be taken seriously. I have to admit that i have run into very few people who have ever misquoted and misinterpreted the Bible more than you. You are just ranting and not very well at that.

Constitution:It's not a dirty word, I know what you are saying. Here is where we differ. You say that an issue like gay rights and abortion have nothing to do with me unless I personally am going through them. That is very blindly stated. I personally have not gay and have not entertained the thought of abortion. I have family that is and has. Thus, I am very much affected by the issues. These issues are so prevalent now that someone would have to live on a deserted island to not be affected by them. I also don't want my kids being taught these things in school or seeing it in public and being affected by it. Again, see my previous posts to understand that God's character in the Old Testament was revealed to be against homosexuality and abortion (Psalms 139 speaks of God's plans for children even as he is forming them in their mother's womb. All their days were written in His book when one of them had not even come to pass yet.). You made the comment that I am using the Bible to back my points basically saying that I should see my error. You choose to not use the scripture to make your points and my question is this. Don't you see that you are using your personal beliefs (no mention of God, no mention of Bible) to make your points? That was my point in the last post I made. Why do I have to compromise my conservative stance for the sake of people who are doing wrong according to my Lord? Someone's beliefs are going to be enforced regarding these issues one way or the other. The United States you paint a picture of is not real. Someone's voice is being suppressed. It's the voice of the conservative Christians. I am not saying tie gay people's hands behind their back and throw them in the river or the same for women who have abortions. I am saying that there is no reason to advocate for the rights of people who are severly wrong in their actions. I appreciate your dialogue about the subject. It is very informative and again I do see where you are coming from. I just strongly do not agree. I am not replying in an in your face type of way. That is not my character.

It's a shame to see that so few people understand how to have dialogue with one another to convey their feelings. No one is won over by name calling or keyboard shouting as so many have done on this blog. I am sure someone will still find fault with my postings. I will still be able to go through my day just fine. I look forward to more comments.

CarolTate, Cains children were drowned in the flood. None of the sons of Noah were the sons of Cain. You are as bad as the KKK saying that black people are the off shoot of Cain. If you want to talk about the Bible, Read using a Strong's concordance, and the commentaries of the last 500 years, you just might learn something. But about Obama, stop worrying, the President is a yes man for Congress. They run the country. Bush went into Iraq with the consent of the Coungress, which was mostly republicans, Ah yess, our yes man has spoken. History repeats itself. Remember Kennedy (JFK)? The Congress was democrats at the time. Now there is a statement here, but can you see it? Kennedy stood up to the Socialist And the Dems hade him removed. Robert couldn't be controlled either, They got a musslim to do him in. Someone is pulling strings, wonder which fat cat that is. Ed Kennedy watched and learned, but he was framed with a dead pregrant woman. Was he supposed to die too? When he didn't, bribery works wonders doesn't it. Obama's preacher was partly right, but applied the wrong color of skin. Skin has nothing to do with anything, because God said that if the government didn't obey him, then the people would suffer. For more than 200 years the USA lived as it should, fighting only when it was attacked. England suffered at the hands of our forefathers at God's will. Read the religious histroy of that country of those times, you might see something. Every war since WW2 has been money wars. Now, go figure.

CarolTate2,
Your comments on the Bible losing meaning in translation is inaccurate. You make it sound as if each translation uses a previous translation as its basis. It was not translated into English, and then from English to Spanish, and then from Spanish to French. Or was it done using Google Translate :). Each translation is based on the root words using Greek and Hebrew Lexicons.
There is, however, some meaning lost in a translation, which is why it is important to study the lexicons also. For example, the English translations use the word "Love" to cover the various words of passion, emotion, and feelings in the Greek translation. In English, the word "Gift" is used where as in Spanish translations, 3 different words are used to give more precise meaning.

I find it funny that most who claim to be religious do not embody what god is. You are suppose to love others not dislike them no matter who or what they worship. In the end are we not all gods creations. Basically Obama wants everyone to get along and that no religion should be more important than any other. Or else we are no better than the countries in the Middle East who prosecute religions

Larry Lnn,
God does love you and desires for all to live with Him eternally in His kingdom, but He's given us a free will to choose what we want. For someone who hates God, it would be hell to have to worship Him forever. The choice is yours. For humans who can't create anything from nothing, we are sure are bold to say there's no God, the bible is made up, etc.
We humans are finite. Were you there when the universe came into existence?
How about when the earth was formed?
The bottom line is that you have to put your faith in something, whether it's the words of a scientist or your own finite understanding. The choice is yours to make.
If there's no eternal life and no consequences for our decisions, then go live it up and do whatever you want to do, because it doesn't matter. No morals, no laws, no absolutes. Even though the law of gravity has to be absolute for us to not float off into wherever, moral laws are excluded.You can live how you want because there's no right or wrong. Go ahead and steal from people, because some people think that's ok. Who cares if it's right or wrong?

George Carlin distills the position of the egocentric, condescending, self righteous leaders in organized religion that rely on radio and television to support their lifestyle:
"Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bulls**t story. Holy S**t!"

CarolTate2:

You say "when someone chooses not to believe what God actually states"

If you are getting these "statements" from your bible (where else?) then you will have some difficulty proving that those statements are the ACTUAL WORD OF GOD. The bible has been translated and edited so many times that its words cannot be used as a literal tool.

Lets have some fun with translations!

You said:

"The reason for the diversity of Christians is that. when someone chooses not to believe what God actually states [and] does not fit within their personal agenda, they start another church based on just their opinions, for the purpose of personal greed [and] grab for power."

Translated to Spanish it reads:

"La razón de la diversidad de cristianos es ésa. cuando alguien elige no creer qué dios indica realmente el no cabe dentro de su agenda personal, ellos comienzan otra iglesia basada en apenas sus opiniones, con el fin de personal de la avaricia; gancho agarrador para la energía."

That translated to French:

"La raison de la diversité de chrétiens est celle-là. quand quelqu'un choisira de ne pas croire quel dieu indique réellement le il n'entre pas dans son agenda personnel, ils commencent une autre église basée à peine leurs avis, afin de personnel de l'avarice crochet agarrador pour l'énergie."

And back to English again:

"The reason of the diversity of Christians is that when one will choose not to believe which god indicates really and does not remain in step with its personal diary, they begin another church hardly based their opinions, in order of personal avarice and hook for energy."

Wait - is THAT what you said?

***********
Do you see the diminishing returns here? When you use a text that has been passed down, edited and translated over generations, living through languages that don't even exist anymore, how can you possibly think that you can prove that your version of the text is correct? How do you truly KNOW what God "states?" What source are you using for these infallible words that other Christian sects obviously ignore?

By the way, what sect are you - I need to know which one is right.

Dodson must laguhing all the way to the bank. with all this discourse on a nobody. Anyone that listens to what James Dodson said about Obama and the Bible should remember what Dr. Bruce Prescott of Mainstream Baptists Oklahoma (and a member of the Americans United Board of Trustees), said about him: "Only a fundamentalist demagogue who has made a career of 'manipulating' and 'brainwashing' people to read the Bible through medieval lenses could find cartoon characters teaching tolerance so threatening." He wsrefering to what Doson said about a cartoon featuring Bongebop, Winnie The Pooh, Barney and others about tolerance.
Key words been " Fundamentalist demagogue"

10 billion years from now, it won't matter what the world thinks. Why do you care what the world thinks? What is the world doing for you? Why does it matter when you die? Think past this temporal life and think about eternal things.

------------------------------------------

Sorry pal, when you're dead you're dead.

The Republican strategists have to make sure pastors do not make any comments on Senator Obama. It is just a stupid idea--if you think about McCain's pastor problems: He made a crazy statement about Jewish. Please relax--core Republicans never vote for the Dems.

Aimee,
10 billion years from now, it won't matter what the world thinks. Why do you care what the world thinks? What is the world doing for you? Why does it matter when you die? Think past this temporal life and think about eternal things.

"We will live in a theocracy one day,
thank God! Better to learn to bow down
and worship Christ now than when you bow down to Him on judgement day, telling Him face to face why you rejected His gift to you of eternal salvation."

Posted by: Paul | June 25, 2008 5:55 PM

Wow...up until now I wasn't sure that what people say about many Americans being crazy religious zealots was true.

And you're confused as to why the rest of the world think you're a bunch of jerks?

A must watch...Eveyone

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

Posted by: Obama for President | June 25, 2008 6:58 PM

That's not cool. This is a much better representation of his religious views.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9hPR5jnjtLo&feature=related

Posted by: Obama 08 | June 25, 2008 7:06 PM

These are Ridiculous!! Propaganda Videos!! If you want the real truth about his church, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&NR=1

A must watch...Eveyone

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

Posted by: Obama for President | June 25, 2008 6:58 PM

That's not cool. This is a much better representation of his religious views.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9hPR5jnjtLo&feature=related

Steve, you are right when you say that Jesus would not be elected to office in our day, because he was killed by his own people for going against their wishes during His own lifetime******** Jesus was persecuted by Kenites that had infiltrated into the Levite Priesthood. These are those who screamed for his death! In case you don't know who Kenites are, they are the children of Cain. Cain was the child of Satan & Eve not of Adam & Eve. read in Genesis 4 or 5 (Pretty close). These chapters describe Cains genealogy & Adam's. They are separate. Jesus sat & talked with these false priests & said "Ye are not of the tribe of Judah, but children of the first murderer"! This is not taught by One Verse Charlies & rachet mouths who use the pulpit for their own personal gain! Is it any wonder so many people don't believe in the Bible & true Christianity...find a true teacher of God's Word.. Please. (BTW the real anti-christ is Satan who comes first pretending to be Christ, Satan will be the leader of the New World Order, the world will be turned over to him cause everyone thinks he is Christ....Jesus comes later!)...Blessings

A must watch...Eveyone

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

I like that Obama points out that no one version of Christianity is accepted by the rest of the sects. I praise Obama for his wisdom and courage. May all reasonable persons take the time to register and vote.
Posted by: Bruce Becker | June 24, 2008 10:31 PM ********* The reason for the diversity of Christians is that. when someone chooses not to believe what God actually states & does not fit within their personal agenda, they start another church based on just their opinions, for the purpose of personal greed & grab for power. Does any particular church you know of fit that description?????
BTW all reasonable people are registered & will vote......but knowledgable people will not vote for hate mongers........Nobama '08

Um, Matt - anybody who has ever read the Bible can plainly see that Jesus was a liberal, and of course he never said a single thing about abortion or homosexualty. It's pretty pathetic (and telling) that a self-procalaimed, so-called Christian doesn't even know this. Wow. You have obviously never read the Bible or heard Jesus' message in your whole life. Posted by: sequoia | June 25, 2008 1:18 PM **** There's a difference between reading & understanding. Jesus stated "I came not to change one jot (the tinest dot)of the law"...Thus Jesus supports ALL of the Bible & IS NOT A LIBERAL & perforce he IS against homosexual pervertness (God's words)! Blessings......

Sorry, but oppressing gays and wanting the government to force women to give birth against their will are NOT family values.
Posted by: zzz1204 | June 25, 2008 11:26 AM ******* Who gets women pregnant? If you guys would keep your toy where it belongs except when two people choose to have a baby...there would be no need for abortions!..... Have you heard of any females going around raping females & getting them pregnant? How many times do males lie & manipulate just in order to get a woman & if she gets pregnant run?...Infamous male words "Are you sure its mine?"....Remove the need for abortions & there will be none unless the life of the woman is at stake! Was your precious bama "celibate" until he "married up"?????

Whom do you believe, Matt or the Pope? Matt is against religious tolerance, the Pope is for it: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20061130/pope-urges-religious-tolerance-in-turkey.htm
You can't believe both the ramblings of Matt and the teachings of the Pope.

We will live in a theocracy one day,
thank God! Better to learn to bow down
and worship Christ now than when you bow down to Him on judgement day, telling Him face to face why you rejected His gift to you of eternal salvation.

The dirty little secret is more people have died at the hands of Christians than at the hands of all other religions put together. The same goes for torture, starvation, oppression, etc. Christianity, its not a religion, it's a cult.

God Damn Christianity!
God Damn the Bible!Posted by: KEVIN SCHMIDT | June 25, 2008 11:52 AM**** What world are you living in??? Since its inception Islam has murdered more people than the other Religions combined.

FYI, Christianity is NOT a religion it is a reality, a way of life. Learn the truth of God's Word from a REAL teacher instead of one word charlies & rachet mouths who use it for their own evil purposes.

Blessings!

It's amazing how some people can pick a few verses from God's word & turn it into their own opinion.

"Anti-Christ" the word "anti" in the Bible is Greek which means "instead of" not against. Therefore, it means someone who pretends that he's the Messiah. False prophets are those who do not teach the "truth" of God's Words!

"Thou shalt not kill" was mistranslated from "Thou shalt not commit criminal homicide" which is murder.

God's Word on the Death sentence: "if there are two witnesses make it a public trial & execution..Let the next-of-kin throw the first stone & these things will cease to happen".

Get the original copy of the King James Bible which has the translation notes & errors written by the translators on their errors. If you're going to quote God please do so correctly.thank you... God Bless.....NObama '08

Matt (and Dobson):

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Perhaps knowing that reading it caused his blood pressure to rise. He looks like the type to kill over right there on the stage. Gee I hope that's the correct word " stage", I can't think of anything else to call it.
He said one time how "God has called us to be his representatives in our nation and in our world. Was this when he and the other leader Reed decided how God picked GW Hitler for president,

The speech is hyperlinked in the text

Read the full speech and get to your own conclusions:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/28/us/politics/2006obamaspeech.html?pagewanted=all

Paul wrote:

"Romans 1:26-28
Romans 1:32"
__________________

Jesus was a "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." -First Amendment to the US Constitution

Jesus was a radical Socialist, Paul, so obviously if we're going to live Biblically we better move to the Left.

Paul:

*yawn*

You are obviously a little too obsessed with male-on-male action, and clearly the views of ancient Middle Easterners are not the last word on human sexuality and morality. The fact that you are suggesting your fellow citizens who happen to be gay should be put to death highlights your bizarre, fanatical, backwards and anachronistic views about the world. You nutsos are different from the Taliban, how exactly?

Of course all of this is irrelevant anyway in discussions about US politics in the 21st-century. We don't live in a Theocracy, thank GOD.

If you prefer that, please feel free to move to Saudi Arabia or Iran. This is a secular Republic and church and state are separate.

You nutsos are different from the Taliban, how exactly?

Why is what Dobson says even news? He's a hack, and who cares what he thinks?

Matt:

Don't you see that you are using personal beliefs (God, the Bible) to make your points? I'm not saying you aren't entitled to them - what I'm saying is the government shouldn't be forced to legislate using only your beliefs, or any one (person, sect, group) for that matter. Of course everyone has an agenda. Of course legislation will affect me in some way. It doesn't mean we should abandon all attempts to make it fairly applicable to all.

And as far as your positions on gay marriage and abortion - again these are issues that do not affect you, unless you are gay, or facing unwanted pregnancy. (I'm not advocating either of them by the way) California overturns the ban on gay marriage and your life still goes on. They did it because there was no GOVERNMENTAL reason to ban it in the first place. Religious reasons are personal - not governmental. The government should not dictate my life or choices. They should deliver my mail, protect my borders, and respect the implicit freedoms of ALL of its registered citizens.

As I said it before, you are free to teach, speak or generally promote what you believe, but the government has no right to tell you what those beliefs have to be. The same goes for me. You and I and everyone else should be subject to the same laws, same benefits, and same justice. As long as everyone pays their taxes (and that includes gays paying education taxes they may never use but still pay out of civic duty) why should you demand that someone change their life based on your beliefs? Are then not entitled to their own opinions, their own beliefs - as you are? Are they less of an American because you say so?

The whole point is that Obama may be for or against abortion, gay marriage, (insert wedge issue here), but what he is trying to get across is that the government doesn't have the authority to say who is right and who is wrong, and certainly shouldn't legislate in that manner. He believes that legislation should be applicable to all. Not just some who feel they are right, but all.

Romans 1:26-28
Romans 1:32

Sequoia,
This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural. The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty for their perversion. And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. Romans 1:6
Although they know full well God's just sentence- that those who practice such things deserve to die- they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.

It's pretty amazing. The more the conservative hate machine ramps up its absurd atacks against Obama, the more the people are siding with Obama. The movement in the polls is just remarkable, and it's clear these dinosaurs are using an expired playbook.

Hope is the new hate, and we are very excited about Obama!

JESUS WAS A LIBERAL

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. [Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]

Follow the Truth.....wherever it leads you!

Matt wrote:"The assumption that the anti christ is Muslim is false according to Revelation 13. He is a military man. He has a helper who is second in command that is the religious one. This whole concept of the anti christ being muslim is a myth because the scriptures tell us in Daniel, Zechariah, and Revelation that he will rise from the revived Roman empire."

Get your biblical facts straight, my brother. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in any of the books you cite. It is only mentioned in 1 & 2 John. To be anti-Christ is to go against what Christ taught, a description that easily fits much of the intolerant Religious Right.

As to Obama's remarks, I second those who ask, what exactly was Dobson's objection? Obama asked a perfectly legitimate rhetorical question using a contrast of two preachers and their views to illustrate.

Matt wrote: "Obama and Jesus do not agree on major issues. Namely, abortion and homosexuality."
_______________

Um, Matt - anybody who has ever read the Bible can plainly see that Jesus was a liberal, and of course he never said a single thing about abortion or homosexualty. It's pretty pathetic (and telling) that a self-procalaimed, so-called Christian doesn't even know this. Wow.

You have obviously never read the Bible or heard Jesus' message in your whole life.

Reading these comments easily makes me arrive at one conclusion. Which opinions are foul mouthed and volatile in manner, and which comments are gentle and loving in nature? I sure don't want a president that is supported by the foul mouthed and volatile!

To see the complete lunacy of the American right, one needs look no further than James Dobson.

I am so happy we as a nation are finally recognizing such fanatics for what they are.

Dobson is the devil. He has usurped the Christian community for his own political purposes.

Jim, Constitution:It's not a dirty word., Steve Boyington,

Steve, you are right when you say that Jesus would not be elected to office in our day, because he was killed by his own people for going against their wishes during His own lifetime. I am not being sarcastic. I think that you make a good point.

Jim, the Pope contradicts the scriptures if he teaches religious tolerance. I am not asking anyone to believe my words. Rather, I am hoping people will read the Bible and believe God's words. I don't feel angst towards you or any person who disagrees with me, but I felt obligated to actually present truth on this forum to cut through the fat of Obama's swiss cheese theology.

Alan Keyes, despite some really extreme quotes at times was pretty dead on. Obama and Jesus do not agree on major issues. Namely, abortion and homosexuality. I am very aware that even if a man gets in office that votes for or against something that it does not change the way everyone views an issue. If abortion is legal I understand that this doesn't mean that women are all the sudden forced to believe it is okay. Vice versa. It is about the principal of it all though. We need a man in office who stands for truth to set a God fearing standard for our country even if they choose something differently than the law lays out. I am not sure we have a great candidate this time, but i know I will not vote for Obama.

Constitution:it's not a dirty word, all legislation has the potential to impact you in some form or fashion. I understand what you are saying, but I think it is important to note that someone will be in office. That person will have convictions that either agree or disagree with our perceptions of what we know to be truth. Obama has an agenda. Even though he acts like he is neutral, he isn't. He is voting what he believes which is a pluralistic theology and government. I support innocent life being protected. That is why I also am against gay rights, because it is the destruction of marriage the way God designed it (man and woman). The scriptures in Romans call the practice unnatural. I understand that people will still do it. I will not support it nor will I support bringing a child into the mess through adoption and distorting their view of family. I don't support bringing a child into a dysfunctional marriage between a man and woman either, but that is obviously not a platform in this race.

James Dobson,
If the world hates you,understand that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you. Remember the word I spoke to you: "A servant is not greater than his master." If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will also keep yours. But they will do all these things to you on account of My name, because they don't know the One who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin. Now they have no excuse for their sin. The one who hates Me also hates My Father. If I had not done the works among them that no one else has done, they would not have sin. Now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. But this happened so that the statement written in their law might be fulfilled: They hated Me for no reason. John 15: 18-25

Chloe:

Are you f*cking stooopid or something?

Why on Earth would anybody go to a lunatic right-wing blog for "information?" You can't possibly be serious, but if so, thanks for highlighting the desperation and utter fanaticism of the right, and their HILARIOUS smears against Obama. LOL@ our "great article." You people are complete morons. LOL!

Oh, and sorry but Cindy McCain STOLE FROM CHARITIES while she was a hard core DRUG ADDICT. Not that it matters in a presidential election sice she isn't the candidate, but if you want to play that game, we can play.

The Bible itself is a distortion of spirituality.

The Bible was INVENTED by a group of men who needed a way to control the masses of unwashed peasants and serfs.

But mainly the Bible was INVENTED as a means to trick young men into going to war, not for religion, but really for power, wealth and territory.

It still holds true today. Even Bush himself called the illegal occupation in Iraq a "crusade" and demonizes the Muslim religion.

The dirty little secret is more people have died at the hands of Christians than at the hands of all other religions put together. The same goes for torture, starvation, oppression, etc.

Christianity, its not a religion, it's a cult.

God Damn Christianity!
God Damn the Bible!

For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. This, then, is the judgement: the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who practices wicked things hates the light and avoids it, so that his deeds may not be exposed. But anyone who lives by the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God. John 3:16; 19-21

Dobson is justing doing what Republican politicians have been doing exclusively since 2002, the politics of personal destruction and the politics of fear.

For Dobson to come out and attack Obama for "distorting the bible" and "having a fruitcake intepration of the Constitution" is pure and simple the politics of personal destruction. Instead of talking about issues that Dobson may disagree with he chooses to hurl insults.

Guys check out these great article:

"The Country I Lie To"
Obama LIES on his first general election ad! Also, a short background check on Obama's VP adviser; Eric Holder.

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=800

"Tyrants or Children"
Kim Jong Il and his North Korean murderers endorse Barack Obama. Also, a short profile of Cindy McCain and her charity work.

http://savagepolitics.com/?p=805

Just think about the stunning hypocrisy of this clown.

He leads an organization called "Focus on the Family" and he is attacking Obama? Is there a better example of the ideal, nuclear American family and those so-called "family values" than the Obamas? Certainly not any of the Republicans who ran this cycle.

Sorry, but oppressing gays and wanting the government to force women to give birth against their will are NOT family values.

Who?

Does anybody care what this right-wing Taliban pig-f*cker has to say? The entire agenda of these wackos is to distort the Bible to promote their backwards agenda, so whom does this guy think he's fooling?

Does Dobson know Jesus was a radical Socialist?

Dobson is just a snake oil salesman who preys on the ignorant and superstitious. He is a modern day Pharisee and has as much relation to Jesus Christ as he does to Willie Nelson.

J Dub I hope you get the mental help you desperately need! I believe I spotted you harassing people in Oprah's forums during her webcast series with Eckhart. You're behaving like a needy troublemaker! Please get help so that you may coexist with others, instead of seeking to destroy others.

Obama's point here is that no individual or even group of individuals should be able to legislate the lives of the remainder based on their wishes or beliefs.

More specifically, and as far as the government is concerned, no matter what I feel about a topic of morality - it is not my job, nor my duty, nor my responsibility to impose my views and opinions on another citizen.

You can certainly disagree with one another, but pushing for legislation that governs topics that have NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU is anti-American. It is anti-freedom. It is an attempt to step on those certain inalienable rights we are ALL supposed to have.

If your actions affect someone else, then here is where we cross the line. Laws need to be enacted to protect the freedom of that affected citizen. If your actions affect no one but yourself - the government has no business to be in yours.

Obama has simply stated that the wish of a few to legislate morality to the remainder is not in the spirit of America. Each individual should choose their own path, and the government should be as neutral as possible.

Why is this a bad thing? Some people (even here on this board!) feel that their "morality" should be reflected in federal legislation. They feel that this nation was founded on Christian principles and that the government should legislate according to those principles. This is not just stepping on the rights of American citizens; it is giving them a thrashing to the highest degree. It is dictating their beliefs and in turn, dictating their freedoms.

No thanks. I am a true American. I believe that each and every citizen has a right to their convictions. I believe that each and every citizen should be able to speak their mind whenever, and wherever they choose.

I do not believe that anyone, personally or through the guise of a government position has the right to dictate my personal life to me, or through law forcibly try to reform me, my morality, or the way I interact with my own personal self.

The American government governs all, not just those who feel they are right. Our laws need to be constructed accordingly.

I find James Dobson smug, sanctimonious, self righteous and all around repulsive and have so for many years -- long before I had ever even heard of Barack Obama. Anybody who buys into his rhetoric and rants isn't going to vote for anyone but a far right candidate, anyway or a neocon posing as a Christian. Dobson has not had too nice of things to say about McCain, either. Dobson and people like him think that they have a lock on Christianity and only they have a full and true understanding of the Bible down to every last chapter and verse. One can't challenge Dobson on anything he says without him dissolving into a self serving snit -- just ask George Stephanopolous. And for someone who thinks that Sponge Bob has a gay agenda, yes he thinks that a cartoon character has a gay agenda, Dobson has some nerve labeling someone elses' interpretations as "fuitcake."

I am far from a religious scholar, but it seems to me that if Jesus himself were to appear and run for office nowadays, he would be rejected by both the moneychanger wing and the self-righteous wing of the GOP.

I can not believe that he would try to do anything to come against this man for speaking sound doctrine. Dr. Dobson comments can be researched and can be verified, however, obama's cannot. I guess i would not expect for him to have a true understanding of christianity when he has set under a preacher who preaches anything but the gospel of jesus christ. What I am really appauled at is the amount of christians that call themsself christians that are voting for this man. he litterally blasphemes the word of god in the name of politics. Obama is nothing more than an anti-christ spirit filled man who makes biblical claims with no understanding. Dr. Dobson is very well versed in scripture with balance. No wonder why the antichrist is going to lead many people astray, b/c many people are not rooted in sound doctrine but rather a itch my ear type sound good and feel good message that is nothing more than a luke warm presentation of the gospel and a doctine of man... Obama gets his gospel from a man JAMES CONE who inspired Jerimiah Wright who in turn lead Obama to Christ, Now check that out. Do a search on James Cone, This man is no preacher of the gospel of jesus christ, his views reflect wrights views in which obama reflects them also...He can not distance himself from any of his spiritual people b/c they have grown in his heart for the last 20 years and think about it, he would still be there if it were not the fact that he was running for president, and will probably return...This man knows nothing about how to run our country , morals, or the bible. He may want to go and sit under a real preacher of the gospel of jesus christ or research it for himself, but he is too arogant and filled with pride to do that.... This man is a Fake and I can not vote for him just becuase he can read a speech prepared by someone else thru a teleprompter...I will never VOTE for him not b/c he is black, but b/c he has no morals.... I think I will take a vacation now and be back in time to make sure that i vote NO to him...PS n I am an african American Women who will not be voting for OBAMANATION!!!!

Matt, all I am saying is your interpretation is directly contradicting that of the Pope's. Given a choice of interpretation between some Internet person who thinks he knows Christianity and the Pope, I have no hesitation in taking the Pope's interpretation. You can talk until your face turns blue and that is not going to change my opinion or anyone else's. Honestly, you have to be crazy if you really think you know the Bible better than the Pope!

Correct... religion shouldn't be the basis of why you vote for someone but... think about it... what you value is going to be what you base your life on... or it should be if you truly value it.

Dr. Dobson has simply told people to think about what they value and look to those leaders who stand for your indiviual values... unlike Obama's pastor who clearly states his political view and does not leave the state out of the church!

You can't tell me that Obama has sat in his church for 20 years and doesn't agree with what his religous leader has been preaching... you wouldn't sit in a church for 20 years if you disagreed with what was being taught.

Clearly I think that Obama isn't sure what the heck he stands for!

Jim,

Jesus is against religious tolerance. It is straight from the Bible. That would mean He would have to deny Himself. He did not call us to hate people from other religions which I do not. I will not pat someone on the back and tell them there beliefs are fine when in fact they lead to the destruction that Jesus talks about throughout the gospels. Don't get mad at a guy who actually pulled out his Bible to put some educated Christian thought on the forum and start calling names. That is the easy way out.

And as for the whole God is made up bit. Either you worship the God who created the universe or you worship yourself or someone else in your life. Someone is making the guidelines for your life. There is no such thing as atheism which is the denial of there being a God. You just may not believe in someone else.

A fine example of Dobson penchant for distorting everything. He whines, "Why did [Obama] jump on me? I haven't said anything near that?" when Obama hadn't said ANYTHING about what Dobson had said. The only thing Obama said with reference to Dobson during his entire speech was "[W]hose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's?" For the sake of his argument, he picked two men who are both Christian but with very distinct understandings of their religions. The only observation about Dobson implicit in his remark is that Dobson's Christianity is different from Sharpton's. Surely Dobson can't take issue with that!

Christians, muslims and other fairytale believers, lend me your closed ears. Religion is a form of control, nothing more. If there is a God, he certainly doesn't exist in your crazy books. The fact that this issue is always to the forefront in American politics is a cause for serious concern. Even the bible states those things unto Ceaser, so stick to non political agends. The world's a very dangerous place today beacuse of religious nutcases of many creeds

@ David Andrew Crosby

I am tired of all these people who claim that religion has caused all the suffering and ailments in the world. Religion has often been used as an excuse for war and other atrocities, but it has never been the cause- the cause is greed, ambition, and hatred. If religion were absent, people would still kill, steal, and destroy- they would just find something else to justify their actions.

As to your demand that Christians produce God out of their hats- I don't really have the time to answer that. If you are truly interested in a logical explanation of the existence of God, read some C.S. Lewis or G.K. Chesterton. However, I am willing to bet that you won't.

It's getting late, and I'm finding myself identifying with this cartoon:

http://xkcd.com/386/

-----------------------------------------

A logical explanation of the existance God? Oh boy thats a classic. I shall read your book list when you read Richard Dawkins.

It is absolutely "Sad" to see a bunch of so-called Christian believers judge this guy who has been more successful at been faithful to his wife and a great father to his children than those who's comments we see within this site.

Dr. Dobson is a "Fool" he is the type of individual our Lord, Jesus ordered to get behind him but not in this manner. More like: "Get behind me your brood of evil doers". He knew their hearts just as he does each replying person on this site. He knew the Jewish leaders would hand him over to be crucified and yet he forgave them (at least those who truly repented), and he always forgave the politician, tax collector, prostitute and so on. So, why is it that Christian leaders and proclaimed followers are the first to want to "Cast stones to those who don't agree or speak their lingo? Perhaps is because there is a lack of intelligence in the Christian community. Perhaps they ought to read more from the Songs of Solomon for he was wise in his ways and God honored him.

So, stop! Don't be judgmental and stupid! Use your brains (Dr. Dobson and followers) and analyze what Senator Obama said before you throw the first stone! Remember...God will make sure to judge each one of us individually.

Thanks but don't speak for me!

P.S. Read the facts in the Bible, and find that God, in His mighty power and love gives us all a choice. So, if a woman decides to abort, she will be responsible unto God but if you counseled her and tried to change her mind than you may win her over. Just as our precious Jesus spoke about winning your brother over-not by casting stones at him you fools!

Doelman

I encourage all of you to follow the link to the actual speech. It is incredible to see a politician really discuss honestly an issue with such depth and nuance. Clearly many of you here have not read it in its entirety. It clearly states and discusses that separation of church and state is needed not for secularism but to protect all religions. Obama also states that this does not mean that a religous person has to "leave his religion at the door of a government building". He challenges all of us to be more tolerant and understanding. He gives a great email that caused him to change his web site from a person who is pro life to post his position of pro choice in "fair mindedness". Overall watch all 5 parts of the speech on YouTube. The response by the evangelical crowd is extremely warm and receptive to Obama's keynote speech. If you really care about this issue. See it or read it but do not besmirch by a sound bite by a person with a political grudge.

Whom do you believe, Matt or the Pope? Matt is against religious tolerance, the Pope is for it: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20061130/pope-urges-religious-tolerance-in-turkey.htm
You can't believe both the ramblings of Matt and the teachings of the Pope.

Island1953,

The assumption that the anti christ is Muslim is false according to Revelation 13. He is a military man. He has a helper who is second in command that is the religious one. This whole concept of the anti christ being muslim is a myth because the scriptures tell us in Daniel, Zechariah, and Revelation that he will rise from the revived Roman empire.

He will indeed by charismatic, but according to the scriptures there will be a one world religion. Islam does not fit the bill. It is too polarizing. What religion does fit that bill? How bout the one that says everyone's religion is good. It's good for you and this is good for me. I won't judge you. You don't judge me. This is the exact religion we are seeing put into the minds of our children and fellow adults everyday on tv, radio, and except byt the grace of God in our schools, homes, and churches. Oprah, Bono, Obama. These are some of the ring leaders of this catastrophic movement. The time is soon.

** what would Luthor do? **

Too bad this isn't a parody site, complete with parody responses. Amazing how silly this looks to an outsider who finds the big-3 monotheisms totally laughable.

What a non-existent culture hero "Jesus" would or would not have done is irrelevant. As irrelevant as what Zeus, Sherlock Holmes, or Superman would have done?

Haven't we had enough bible worshipers indulging in mere scripticism? -- What they say has no more intellectual value than geeks parsing comix at a Batman convention.

Sen. Obama wants to reach out to fundies? He'll be fortunate not to lose his forearm to the great beast. Really, pearls before the swinish. He's carried hypocrisy too far already.

As for Dobson and his odious sound-alikes: their church-enterprises should be taxed. Stop state support of religious frauds and con men.

Here I stand, I can not do otherwise.

bipolar2

Matt wrote: "God hates the teachings of other religions."

Sorry, I am a Christian and I refuse to accept that my God believes in hate. Not sure how you can call yourself a Christian if you believe in hatred.

Oh my goodness, people like Matt below really scare me. He is against religious tolerance? Do me a favor, Matt, and listen to the Pope. The pope is for religious tolerance. People like you have no place. People like you are just like G.W. Bush who choose to start Crusades against Islamic nations rather than working for a peaceful world where people accept each other regardless of their own personal religious beliefs. Well, at least it is abundantly clear what some people stand for!

Lee,

My answer to your question is that someone who identifies themselves as a Christian leader most certainly would not compromise the truths that they know from the scriptures and vote or act in a contradictory manner just because someone doesn't agree or know the Lord. We don't cease to obey the teachings of Christ around unbelievers just because they don't believe it. I understand that because they do not have the Spirit of God they cannot by nature obey the Lord or honor Him, but there is a sanctifying presence that God calls us to have no matter what the cost. Shadrach, Meshach, and Obednego did not bow to the image of Nebuchadnezzer in the Old Testament and God absolutely didn't want them to. They demonstrated to the king that they would not live that way and it caused the king to give thought and praise to the One true God. Christ called for radical change among people and still does. He calls for people to come to Him and to leave their lives of hopelessness and meaninglessness. That is what He did for His entire ministry. He held people to the perfect standard. He didn't lower His standard on behalf of the people's sinfulness and try to meet some ambiguous criteria of morality. He set the bar so that people recognized their imperfection and hopefully would run to Him. That's why it is crucial that we have a president who preferably is a man of God, but if not at least promotes the things of God pro life and anti-gay rights.

What I am saying is that it makes no sense for a believer to vote yes to abortion and gay rights, but to not believe in that personally. God didn't lead them to that decision. Their fear of the masses did. These are men pleasers it calls them in the Bible. My concern with beliefs when examining the correct candidate is that Obama is trying to convey to the public that he has an association with Christianity which at the core of it all He does not serve the same God I nor many others do. Our God is not a pluralistic God and would never be in favor of abortion or gay rights. I don't want him having a hand in the death and destruction of the families of America (killing babies and promoting dysfunctional homes).

There's something VERY interesting going on this election year. I'm a Republican, and I'll vote either for Obama or Bob Barr. I've already contributed money to both campaigns.

And the Obama campaign is reaching out to Christian Evangelicals, right under the noses of their reactionary church elders. No wonder Dobson is spitting mad! Most evangelicals are good people, and not all are going to be easily manipulated by wedge issues going forward. Courting this religious segment is political genius.

As I said, something INTERESTING is going on. I'm too cynical to think that Obama will be able to create much change in Washington, but I WANT change. I'm not buying into the fear-mongering of the extreme right. I think Americans want change, and we're no longer buying the BS.

Obama strips the very core of Christianity away when he comments on the need for all religions to work together. Christ never called for this and always stated that the world would hate and persecute those who stood by absolute truth. Namely that all religions of the world are false except Biblical Christianity. The thing that makes Obama so repulsive to me is that he takes scripture verses and makes them no more significant than the words of godless men. You are not a Christian because you believe some of the words in the Bible. A person is a Christian because they believe that Jesus Christ is their only hope for salvation from their sinful flesh and desires. Christianity is being a Christ follower which is not in the least bit possible without complete submission to the truth that He is the only hope we have.

The Bible was not written as a moral compass for men to take from as they chose. It is meant to be lived by in fullness. When Obama talks about stoning children and not eating shellfish as he quotes Old Testament law, he reveals his on misinterpretation of the Bible. The Old Testament law was written by God as a complete tutor to the Jewish people. It was to show the people that they could never be good enough to achieve His standard of holiness apart from His (God's) mercy and grace. True Jewish believers understood this and offered sacrifices as a means of not completely covering their sins, but as an expression of need for forgiveness. This was a way of saying I know that I need your grace, because I am really messing up despite my greatest efforts. They sacrificed temporary sacrifices in the interim as they waited for the One (Jesus) that the Bible noted as the Ultimate Sacrifice. When Jesus came he fulfilled every single portion of the law down to the last letter (something only God incarnate could do) and He became the sacrifice that the Jewish people cried out for in the Old Testament by taking the sins of past, present, and future humanity upon himself (He didn't sin, but He bore it's consequences on our behalf). He rose from the grave on the third day after His death because He had conquered sin. He did not fall under the consequences of sin which is spiritual death because He didn't sin. So He had the power over death. It tells us in the new testament that His sacrifice made the law void and that we are no longer under law, but under grace. Nevertheless, God's character never changes. What we take from the Old Testament is although we are not required to sacrifice the blood of bulls and goats, God hates sin. God hates abortion. God hates sexual immorality both homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual. God hates the teachings of other religions. The reason He hates the teachings of all religions other than Biblical Christianity is that they undermine the diety and messianic character of Jesus Christ in some form or fashion. Rather than teaching that Christ is the only hope to free man from the bondage of sin that he is enslaved to, all religions teach either a mixture of Christ forgiving sins and man being responsible for some of the process too, or man being good enough (will never happen). We will never happenstance be good enough to meet God's perfect requirements. That's why in His mercy He sent Jesus to do it for us. That's why all religions other than Christianity are false, they leave it up to you or some mythical thought or good person's teachings. Those things are empty clouds promising rain, but never producing.

Bottom line. God never volunteered Himself out of politics. Man took Him out and we are suffering the negative consequences of that and will continue so. To all of those who complain that Christianity has no place in politics, my question is, "what teaching of Christ has ever called you to live in an immoral way?" The answer to that is simple. It is not that God in politics would force you to live an immoral life. It is that you like immorality so much that you don't want to be told you are wrong. Abortion is murder. Sexual immorality is wrong. Always has been according to the scriptures and always will be.

Don't worry about it. God will take care of it, right? Why limit ethics to just the bible? Is this all we can draw upon? I am concerned as to the framing of your question as well. Why is "your" moral judgement of another human being's "spirituality level" the preferred criteria?

I am a Christian with solid evangelical credentials. Graduate of one of the best Christian colleges, member of some very well known evangelical churches wherever I lived, even a short time as a sort of "missionary" in the former Soviet Union.

Our faith has two sides. One side is the issue of ethics and morality.

The other side is the issue of redemption. Redemption (or salvation, if you prefer) is rarely a matter for discussion in the public square. We ask only that governments give us the right to teach and preach, reach out to others so as to help the Holy Spirit lead them to faith. To every evangelical, that is the most crucial side of our faith.

But it is the other side of the coin, the call to live holy lives in an ethical and moral way, which gets the most discussion in the public square.

If you stop and think about what we believe in the area of morality, the Bible teaches us that because of our salvation / redemption, we grow in grace and thus develop the spiritual strength to live holy lives. Without that work of the Holy Spirit within, a person probably is not able to live up to God's standard.

Moreover, we as Christian recognize that even those who know something of that spiritual strength are travelers on a journey of Christian growth. The moral choice we might be able to make today is not necessarily one that we could have made and sustained early in our spiritual journey.

I am not setting any position on any issue here, but just asking a question I believe is worthy of some thought.

Here it is.... How do we frame our laws and our society to be fair to those who do not have the grace of that inner spiritual strength and even to those who have only begun the life of spiritual growth?

Posted by: Lee in Florida | June 24, 2008 11:51 PM

That's rich. Dobson accusing someone of taking the Bible out of context to support his political views. I believe that's what's known as chutzpa. Too freaking funny.

island1953 said: "religion is what this country was founded on"

Perhaps you missed the part in the constitution about separation of church and state and freedom of choice of religion, or perhaps you just have difficulty distinguishing imagination from reality. Either way, you're a nut case!

Most of these comments were referred to in Revelations. For those who don't know or don't believe, or even care... the book of Revelations was God's primer for the end of days, where he said the Anti-Christ would try to bring down the earthly world. Most of what Revelations foretold is happening now. Wars, strange weather and natural phenomena, etc. He also said the Anti-Christ would be a Muslim, and be very charasmatic. Obama has NOTHING but charisma going for him. So explain to me why people are falling in droves in front of his feet???? Above and beyond the religsious factor (which I believe is a crucial component to this topic), show me...someone please show me.... what accomplishments Obama has made as Senator. Prove to me that he has the best interests of this country in his heart. He hasn't, nor has he cared to show, that he does. People are taking simple comments by Dr. Dobson and trying to turn them into something else. Why are people so threatened by people of faith? Because of guilt. Because deep in their heart they know those people are right, and they're damned mad that they feel exposed. Christianity is not about guilt or exposing feelings of regret. It's about acceptance, love for every man, and sharing what we know Christ wants everyone to know. The Bible tells us we must not change or corrupt what The Word says. Maybe Dr. Dobson was just trying to remind Mr. Obama of that. Regardless of what has been said here, I feel Dr. Dobson felt in his heart that he had to say something about what he perceived from Obama's remarks. Frankly, nothing I've read about or seen from Obama sparks me to support. In fact, quite the opposite. To those who would say to keep politics and religion apart, I would remind them that religion is what this country was founded on. You don't like it...leave. Walk around Washington DC.... you'll see references to the Bible at just about every step. And in the meanwhile, may God Bless and open your heart.

@ David Andrew Crosby

I am tired of all these people who claim that religion has caused all the suffering and ailments in the world. Religion has often been used as an excuse for war and other atrocities, but it has never been the cause- the cause is greed, ambition, and hatred. If religion were absent, people would still kill, steal, and destroy- they would just find something else to justify their actions.

As to your demand that Christians produce God out of their hats- I don't really have the time to answer that. If you are truly interested in a logical explanation of the existence of God, read some C.S. Lewis or G.K. Chesterton. However, I am willing to bet that you won't.

It's getting late, and I'm finding myself identifying with this cartoon:

http://xkcd.com/386/

Again Republicans, watch your back: Senator McCain's former pastor made a horrible remarks on Jewish--if you want to win in FL.

I'm pretty well convinced that the cult of christianity has done enough bad things to mankind and to the Earth to last us a few more centuries. Hey Mr.Dobson show me gods signature naming you his rep here on Earth. Or better yet let us have his phone number so we can talk to him ourselves. Just as I thought. You can't because he's dead and not making a comeback any time soon. We need EARTH, NOT JESUS.You are just another Ted Haggard. If you can't produce his holiness, go away!

Also, thanks to Lee in Florida for representing the Christian view in a way that doesn't make us sound completely senseless. And to those who are constantly bashing President Bush, I have a thought for you-

Do I believe Bush has handled our country in the best manner possible? No. However, I think that our nation should consider the views held by our grandparents- the greatest generation. They believed that patriotism and support for the President is a duty of every American. Ever since LBJ, the American public and media has abandoned this principle, and has instead attacked the political process and it's leaders constantly. Once a leader has been elected, complaining does absolutely no good. We as a people need to support the people we elect for better or worse- if you don't like the job they do, vote for someone else in the next election. In the meantime, hindering them at every turn and preventing any good whatsoever coming from their term in office is NOT productive.

Keep it up, James. Your loony remarks only help make it more certain that Barack Obama will be our next President and you will fade into the obscurity you so richly deserve. Choke on it, James.

I find the breadth of opinion in the comments fascinating. It's interesting how much people can reveal about themselves in a paragraph. Some of these comments have really rubbed me the wrong way, so I would like to contest a few of the statements made so far.

First, I would like to address all of those who have referred to Dobson's 'flock' with phrases like 'easily manipulated' and 'his weird little choir'. As someone who has listened to Dobson on many occasions, I find it insulting that you insinuate that everyone who listens to him is an idiot. I believe that he has some very good ideas in regards to family dynamics and family values. However, I disagree with him on many issues in regards to politics. His public views, no matter how skewed, do not detract from the value of the his advice in other areas.

Secondly, to those who maintain that everyone in the GOP is an idiot. As a seventeen year old, I have already experienced enough of life to know that people on both sides of any issue- be they Republican or Democrat, Christian or Atheist, or whatever else- can be morons. If you claim that everyone who holds a certain view is mentally deficient, you automatically place yourself in the moron category. Just because someone holds a different view from you does not mean that they are not entirely without merit.

To the atheists who have posted, and especially the one who said all people who believe in God should be in mental institutions: I think you qualify as an 'intolerant atheist'. More likely than not, you are part of the group that attacks Christianity viciously without regards to logic. Probably my favorite comment from people of your caliber is how intolerant and ignorant Christians are.

I've already written a novel, and I'm sure I could go on for another hour about the issues that have surfaced in the forum. However, I would like to leave you with one more thought. If you are using broad generalizations that insult an entire group of people, you are ignorant. If you maintain that a viewpoint is completely and totally without merit, you are wrong. It is time that people realized that in the real world, there can be more than one right way to solve a problem, and that the task is to pick the best one. People should also realize that far more often, there are only wrong solutions to an issue, and the task is to pick the one that does the least damage. If you can't understand these principles, at least don't post your views on forums where everyone can see just how ignorant you really are.

Dobson, you're no anti-Christ, much as you try. But you are a hypocrite.

Since you are not voting this year, you have no room to complain after the election.

I wish that was all that was required to get you to shut the hell up.

George Bush has not saved one person's a$$ in 8 years, in fact he has done quite the contrary. i.e. infinite war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the middle east, Exxon Valdez getting out of paying the people who suffered and are still suffering, black water (corporate army that doesn't pay taxes in the us), Enron (did you forget, the government did), 911, the environment, international relationships, student loans, veterans, the economy, the recession, the stock market, the dollar, home ownership, the UN, student loans, to name a few things that he has f'd up... oh wait, he did save a bunch of rich white men's pocketbooks that are located near their a$$, and filled them with the blood and sweat of the lower and middle class. He'd better save his own ass soon, impeachment, prison maybe in the future. I love how people can be so macho when they are separated by cyber-space. Anyway, go Obama!!! He is the most intelligent sincere candidate that we have ever had in the history of the United States. He has my full support.

I am a Christian with solid evangelical credentials. Graduate of one of the best Christian colleges, member of some very well known evangelical churches wherever I lived, even a short time as a sort of "missionary" in the former Soviet Union.

Our faith has two sides. One side is the issue of ethics and morality.

The other side is the issue of redemption. Redemption (or salvation, if you prefer) is rarely a matter for discussion in the public square. We ask only that governments give us the right to teach and preach, reach out to others so as to help the Holy Spirit lead them to faith. To every evangelical, that is the most crucial side of our faith.

But it is the other side of the coin, the call to live holy lives in an ethical and moral way, which gets the most discussion in the public square.

If you stop and think about what we believe in the area of morality, the Bible teaches us that because of our salvation / redemption, we grow in grace and thus develop the spiritual strength to live holy lives. Without that work of the Holy Spirit within, a person probably is not able to live up to God's standard.

Moreover, we as Christian recognize that even those who know something of that spiritual strength are travelers on a journey of Christian growth. The moral choice we might be able to make today is not necessarily one that we could have made and sustained early in our spiritual journey.

I am not setting any position on any issue here, but just asking a question I believe is worthy of some thought.

Here it is.... How do we frame our laws and our society to be fair to those who do not have the grace of that inner spiritual strength and even to those who have only begun the life of spiritual growth?

Norah,

If the first English Bible translations catered to people in power, why were Wycliffe and Tyndale persecuted by authorities for attempting to spread their translations, and why, just a few decades after the completion of the "authorized version" under King James was his son put to death by a group of people who were some of the Bible's most ardent believers?

James Dobson's ''Focus on the Fascists" and the rest of the pre-Enlightenment gang of evangelical self-deceivers need to be escorted to the nearest psychotherapy unit. Obama is just as philosophically blind as all the others, however, if he insists on a irrational supernatural impetus to confronting the world's ''Devilish'' problems. Only the egalitarian application of economic and social science can solve the myriad of threats the world actually faces i.e. global warming, arms race , sexism, racism, hunger, homelessness... et al . The advocates of '' End Times-Armaggedon '' Theology have already created Hell on Earth due to their wretched indifference to planetary suffering and their neglect of Human Rights.

Why not say 65,000,000 Iraqis (see...I can make up numbers too)

Our Military has freed over 60 million people from tyranny. What? Would you rather these people live under a tyrant like Saddam or the Mullah Omar. Jeesh.

George W. Bush...saving your ass whether you like or not punk!

Posted by: 65,000 Iraqis | June 24, 2008 10:55 PM
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Mullah Omar? In Iraq? I think not. Iraq was a secular dictatorship. Osama bin Laden and al Queda had no presence in Iraq until we invaded. The 65,000 figure is the one that is accepted by most news organizations now. Frankly, I think it's on the low side. Probably Iraq Body Count is more accurate http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

And speaking of numbers where did you get the freed 60 million people from tyranny figure? Iraq's population is around 28 million, although several million are living in exile again.

As for GWB saving my a$$ - I think the little punk should be looking out for his own self, as his war crimes come into light.

HEY MAL...
I guess those midwestern farmers who got flooded out were SINNERS too?!!!

Why not say 65,000,000 Iraqis (see...I can make up numbers too)

Our Military has freed over 60 million people from tyranny. What? Would you rather these people live under a tyrant like Saddam or the Mullah Omar. Jeesh.

George W. Bush...saving your ass whether you like or not punk!

jt...
Does it "break your heart" that over 65,000 Iraqis have died due to the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq? Are you as concerned for those innocent children who were killed in this unecessary, ill-conceived, botched Iraq war and occupation? You shouldn't have to search the bible very far to learn "Thou shalt not kill" applies to the Bush Doctrine of preemptive war.

I also say that James Dobson Does not Speak For Me:

http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/

spare us this righteous fool, DOBSON THE TALIBAN.

All the myths about "THE CHRIST WHO SAVES US" were first made up about Appollonius of Rome, not Jesus. Later they were all said to be true of Alexander the Great, the mere general.

Jesus' actual word is ONLY to be found in Q1, the lost Gospel.
All the NT taught today has been superseded by more accurate MUCH OLDER, teachings found in caves and churches, where they were hidden after they were declared heretical by the emperor Constantine who was Sainted for giving the new spin official status. BS.
Jesus was killed for saying "I and the father are ONE", and so cowards then said it was only true of Jesus and hide from his real teaching, THAT ALL OF US ARE ONE WITH THE DIVINE PERSON.

No one is SAVED by the murder of a famous person.
Alexander the Great's death was just a death.
For years, people were taught that 'belief' on ALexander would Save you.

The premise of being saved by pagan ritual murder of the central figure of a cult, including later drinking the ceremonial blood of the slain, is all a lie, a myth and a ton of baloney and even though 27% of the population believes they are SAVED just for thinking Jesus' murder buys them a free pass into God's heaven, it is not now nor never will be so.
And therefore the rest of us take it poorly when morons like Dobson preach some teensy variation on the themes of Christianity and want to be known as special, distinguished and RIGHT. Sure.

B. S. Lord save us all from theocracy. Cant Dobson just become a member of the Taliban and issue FATWA's?

Tolerance is not defined as Acceptance

I like how Obama attacks the military by trying to use the Bible...for instance...the Sermon on the Mount:

"a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application."

Maybe O.Hussein Obama should read this line again.."thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain."

Isn't this a riot .Here i was thinking we all have the right to express our feelings and thoughts. One extreme hates Dobson and the other hates Obama..Now thats diversity.I will defend both Men their right to express themselves...and i am as far right as they come.

I like that Obama points out that no one version of Christianity is accepted by the rest of the sects.

I praise Obama for his wisdom and courage. May all reasonable persons take the time to register and vote.

I dare you to read this:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&version=9