Ubuntu Autopreviewing .MP3's

Neat!

At this point without further research, I cannot tell you whether
this is a Ubuntu default or as a result of one of the players I
installed.

Linux simply amazes me, how that it does things better than the
Microsoft operating system.

No doubt I may get trollish replies, as this is the habit here in
COLA. Usually these responses result in refuting / disputing /
imputing / ad nauseum. Example, how much the "market leader" is
so much better, because it adds money to their stock portfolio, I
need to pony up the bucks, the otherwise excellent Unix quality
engineering workstation desktops with multiple desktops offered
even a decade ago are amateurish compared with Windows, no one
except Linonut uses it, etc. and etc.

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/45935/

[quote]
Much of the evidence of Microsoft's arguments has disappeared
from the Internet. Links which I have collected in my research
lead to either "HTTP 404 Not Found" pages or interesting
redirects to pages that alter the original reports. We'll show
you examples of the code used to do that so you can judge for
yourself if you believe a conspiracy might exist. First let's
look at some examples.
[/quote]

In line with the controlled world-wide media, which seeks to
alter the truth to form opinion rather than the reader form it;
are these trollish taunts a part of a conspiracy? You be the
judge. All I can say is that in using Linux for the past decade,
it has beat the socks off Microsoft hands down. The stability
and maturity of the desktop far exceed the so-called market
leader. The IT community is ready for Linux.

--
HPT

Nautilus is a default file manager in many distros, it's been doing
this for a long time, but I prefer file managers that don't do stuff.
Thunar is pretty good at that, and several others. So, it's not just
Ubuntu.

You might like 'mc' also, that's a very powerful browser.

--
The Optical Cable to the bathroom is breakdancing because of a trailing
space in /etc/passwd. Pac Bell is out to lunch.
:: http://www.s5h.net/ :: http://www.s5h.net/gpg

That's one nifty feature. Not crucial, but one of those that make you
smile just for the coolness of it. Just checked it out on my Debian Lenny
(GNOME 2.18.3) - it's in standard Nautilus. Etch's version 2.14.x should
have it, too. Enlightened Sound Daemon has to be running - "Enable
software sound mixing (ESD)" option in GNOME's Sound Preferences.

It doesn't yet play FLACs, though. I get the following in .xsession-
errors even with flac123 player installed:

<quote>
play stio: Unknown input file format for `-': File type `flac' is not
known
</quote>

Yup, it's way more flexible.

--
Krzysztof Lubanski

The features that enables you to see text (PDF or plain-text files) as an icon
and directory icons that reflect on their contents are nice features as well.
Konqueror had this in KDE 3.1 (around 2003) at the very earlier. Maybe it has
been there for 6 years.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Prevalence does not imply ideali$M
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 105 total, 1 running, 103 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

You think that's a good thing? So just because I move my mouse, a song
starts to play? How annoying. Yes, i'm sure it can be turned off, but
still... what a fucking stupid idea.

Awwwwww.... Poor jealous little Wintard.

*snicker*

FS fragmentation -- You think that's a good thing? So just because I save
files, a hard drive is torn to piece? How annoying. Yes, i'm sure it CAN'T

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | "Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue"
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
05:05:01 up 2 days, 3:11, 3 users, load average: 1.12, 1.92, 1.77
http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

it's GNOME's preview mode. It can do that with any file the default media
player can play.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFG52iVd90bcYOAWPYRAmoNAKCmCkR5+PG4SEIlVjPag2iQOxY4cgCfVTZ1
Vbx5C4eocHKrbsft1Qo+2IU=
=TL3I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bureaucracy is like a septic tank -- all the really big stuff float
to the top.

until MS "innovates" it, then you'll think it's the greatest thing since
sliced bread.

and yes, you can turn it off, or rutn it on for only local files, or...

iD8DBQFG52jvd90bcYOAWPYRAjJWAJsHc1phy64IjXIxKqjKaFxVkYZEwgCgwh8M
mGz0KuUVZK+wo6xsha8qfSA=
=fbQa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

This isn't hell. This is where you get sent when you've been bad in hell.

Too bad Linux filesystems get fragmented, then. Try this, as root:

for i in 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256
do
dd if=/dev/zero of=$i.meg bs=1024k count=$i
done
filefrag *.meg

(Root is needed for filefrag)

That will create 9 files, ranging from 1 meg to 256 meg, and then tell
you how many fragments each consists of. Here's what I got on one of my
Ubuntu systems:

128.meg: 39 extents found, perfection would be 2 extents
16.meg: 14 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
1.meg: 133 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
256.meg: 49 extents found, perfection would be 3 extents
2.meg: 153 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
32.meg: 8 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
4.meg: 103 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
64.meg: 12 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
8.meg: 6 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent

and here is another:

128.meg: 72 extents found, perfection would be 2 extents
16.meg: 47 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
1.meg: 20 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
256.meg: 50 extents found, perfection would be 3 extents
2.meg: 71 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
32.meg: 46 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
4.meg: 86 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
64.meg: 96 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent
8.meg: 100 extents found, perfection would be 1 extent

--
--Tim Smith

There again goes Hadron Quarks claim of "easy to allocate a non-fragmented
swap file". Which would be quite a bit larger than 256meg
--
Microsoft's Product Strategy: "It compiles, let's ship it!"

What else would you expect from Tim "filesystem expert", "weekly stats
analyst", "Funkenbush protege" Smith?

Roy S. Schestowitz | Othello for free: http://othellomaster.com

08:20:01 up 2 days, 6:26, 3 users, load average: 1.72, 2.03, 2.16

It doesn't take a filesystem expert to figure out that you were wrong
about Linux filesystems. It just takes using the "filefrag" command.

Or it just takes paying attention. Peter has pointed out many times
that fragmentation is a problem when you try to create large files.
This is why, if you are going to use a swap file, you should create it
soon after the filesystem is created, if you want it to be contiguous.

If you are going to advocate Linux, maybe you should put a little effort
into learning more about it?

--
--Tim Smith

Not so stupid. The preview starts playing after about a second of
hovering the cursor over the icon. So it's hard to get cracking sounds
when just moving the cursor through a window. And at least on Debian, it
*is* turned off by default, because ESD is not started by default.

--
Krzysztof Lubanski

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll just love it (and promptly forget what a
fucking stupid idea it seemed before) once it's available for whatever
version of ms windows that happens to be the latest craze at that
time.

--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
11:14:23 up 14 days, 1:15, 2 users, load average: 0.08, 0.13, 0.09
Linux 2.6.22.5 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

Sheesh. What a disgustingly geeky idea and total waste of time. 99% of
users will have that removed in no time at all.

Another fine "true linux advocacy post" from the "true linux
advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile expert", "X
specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "newsreader magician"
and "hardware maven" Hadron Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Damian O'Leary

And no, lots of people would *enable* it. Since it does not hinder normal
use at all. You actually have to hover over that file-icon to let playback
start. Just as you have to to see an enlarged picture of the preview. Or of
the image. Or the video file

Come on, Hadron Quark, "true linux advocate", you show with each and every
post that you don't have the slightest clue about what you are blubbering
--
We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms.

No, dummy, file fragmentation isn't a problem when creating large files,
small files, huge files, or any other type of files. Period.

I know that to a Wintard that's a real splinter under the thumbnail
because Winblows becomes basically unusable in short order if you
don't piss away a couple hours every week fixing up its file system,
and Linux boxes run for years straight without so much as a slowdown,
but that's just the way your pathetic Wintard life is. Get use to it
dummy, because Pimp Daddy Gates and the incompetent gits he hires
couldn't fix this glaring deficiency even if they wanted to.

Must truly suck to be you. *snicker*

What a stupid complaint. If Microsoft "innovated" that, you'd be all
over it, drooling and cooing.

--
Coo coo!

In your opinion. Someone else thought it was a good idea. Isn't
choice great?

> Hadron snotted:

I guess that, since you don't like it, it should be removed and no one
have the choice of using it, eh asswipe? After all, "this choice thing is
a joke", right?

It's hilarious to see the Windolts frothing at the mouth, denouncing a
harmless (and actually kind of neat) feature.

"Fucking stupid" "Waste of time" I think it's obvious that they really
think it['s kind of cool, or they wouldn't be so pissed-off about it. LOL

They should have spent the time improving the speed and looks of Nautilis
instead of adding more toys.
Dog slow and butt ugly.

<SNIP>

Yep, yep, yep .... I guess you are right there. It runs as fast
on my Dell 850 MHz 512 MB RAM laptop in Ubuntu as Windows XP
Explorer does on my 3 GHz 1 GB RAM desktop. Both Intel BTW.

However, I got to admit I really like the looks of the icons in
Gnome desktop. The Windows X-Pee one is so butt ugly. I have
the looks and functionality of a high powered Unix engineering
workstation desktop with multiple desktops, at a fraction of the
cost of Windows.

Screen savers and desktop backgrounds are fantastic also, many to
choose from, all bundled with the system. I don't need to buy a
stupid Windows media CD add-on to add themes.

Also kudos to Mark Shuttleworth for doing a fantastic job with
Ubuntu.

--
HPT

>> Hadron snotted:

He's the Perry "Rhodan" (I found yet another one!) of COLA trolls.

--
Tux rox!

Oh yeah, about as stupid has Erik's Vista test on a 500 MHz PC
with 256 MB RAM.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/
043a1386c0c4daeb

or http://tinyurl.com/372cu8

Vista used 69% of the RAM leaving 79 MB for applications. With
that amount of RAM he'll be able to run top notch applications
such as Notepad, perhaps Wordpad (MS Write) on a light file, may
be even Solitaire.

That wasn't stupid, it was moronic.

Beryl runs fine in 256 MB memory.

--
HPT

You look silly Roy trying to discredit them without offering an
explanation of the tests they ran.

So are they valid or not? (I have no idea).
If not, why don't you refute the data instead of attacking the messenger?

Facts seem to scare Roy for some reason.
He runs from them like a chicken from a fox.

Sure it does.
Why?
Because a Linux zealot says so that's why!
Amazing.

Unfair. "Perry Rhodan" is just the main character of worlds largest Sci-Fi
series. Not fair comparing him to our resident "true linux advocate"
--
Microsoft: which revised Eula do you want to accept today?

No, fragmentation is not a "problem", since linux does not suffer from it
It *is* a problem when creating swap files

Even then, it /can/ be difficult, as the fs has already had several
write/read/delete cycles during install
I have always maintained that swapfiles are fine to add *temporarily* swap
space. They still have disadvantages to swap partitions.
You can't "Suspend to RAM" in swap files for example (although maybe this
has changed meanwhile. Linux evolves much faster than windows)

Heed your own advice, Tim Hadron
--
Tact, n.:
The unsaid part of what you're thinking.

No, it's not. At least, not if your cluster size is a multiple of the
memory page size, which is the default in Windows.

Swap files are random access. They are not read sequentially. There is no
guarantee that any two blocks in memory will be stored sequentially in a
page file, which means head seeking regardless.

The only problem with a fragmented swap file is if the file is fragmented
mid-page. That won't happen with a cluster size that's a multiple of the
page size.

You're sure, eh?

There is only one case I can think of where i've changed my mind about a
feature, and that's popup blockers. My position on that changed because
popups themselves became almost useless for real advertising. Thus, the
only purpose for unrequested popups is malicious or fraudulent.

I have not changed my stance on Virtual Desktops, despite Microsoft
offering VD powertoys. I haven't changed my opinion on tabbed browsing,
despite IE7 offering it. I haven't changed my opinion virtually anything.

So why would you say something like that?

It is a stupid idea no matter who does it. You should not have music
playing unintentionally, and that's precisely what can happen there. It's
as bad as websites that embed sound in them.

Maybe, Erik. And maybe not. There is a /small/ overhead incurred nonetheless
*if* more than one contiguous page is written/read back
Face it: A swap file is *at* *best* as fast as a swap partition

That is *not* the only problem with swapfiles. But naturally you managed
again to snip another example I gave
--
Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX."
-- Tom Christiansen

There are several issues here.

[1] Fragmentation of an individual file. This is not a
problem if the file is always in memory, and may not be
that big of a problem even if it's not, as long as the
file is on one cylinder (no head seeks). A big file may
have to be fragmented if there are indirect pointer
blocks; ideally these would be placed in just the right
area as the kernel is reading the file sequentially to get
the next set of blocks.

[2] Directory clustering. The general idea is that files
in a directory have all of their blocks relatively close
together, ideally on the same cylinder. I'd have to
check head specifications but AFAIK track-to-track isn't
all that different whether one's seeking from track 1 to
track 2 or track 1 to track 1000 nowadays. However, I
could be wrong.

[3] Access order. Even in a perfectly defragmented
filesystem, if the files are accessed in the wrong order
one can get a lot more head movement than one should.

[4] Editing. Files in a perfectly defragmented filesystem
may not be able to extend, causing fragmentation.

I would think that a fragmented swap file in Linux isn't
really a problem (apart from slowing things down); however,
I can't really give the same assurances about Windows'
swapfile.

It is also not clear to me how journaling plays into all this.

[rest snipped]

--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
New Technology? Not There. No Thanks.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Actually ... they did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Windows_2000_Explorer.png

Microsoft have all the best "fucking stupid ideas".

--
K.
http://slated.org

.----
| "OOXML is a superb standard"
| - GNU/Linux traitor, Miguel de Icaza.
`----

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.22.1-41.fc7
19:54:07 up 34 days, 18:49, 2 users, load average: 0.13, 0.08, 0.09

Tell Microsoft; they thought of it first:

"Sound and video files could be played right within the preview pane of
Windows 2000 Explorer with its built-in media player."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Explorer

IIRC WinME (or possibly betas of 2K) didn't even have play controls in
the preview, it worked in exactly the same way as Nautilus. Unlike WinME
and Win2K, however, Nautilus doesn't encounter "locked-file" error
conditions when trying to subsequently delete those files - something
that turned out to be a major pain in the neck at the time. Microsoft's
"solution" was to abandon the idea, rather than try to fix it. Well
there's only so much the MS toner-monkeys can do, after all.

Yes, as usual the GNU/Linux implementation /works/, but the Microsoft
attempt is an abysmal failure. If Hardon Quirk is going to spend all his
"Linux advocate" karma points on criticising Linux and praising Windows,
then maybe he aught to do some research first, since he seems woefully
ignorant of /both/ systems.

--
K.
http://slated.org

19:47:06 up 34 days, 18:42, 2 users, load average: 0.03, 0.03, 0.13

> There is only one case I can think of where i've changed my mind about a

While I don't really care about the feature, it would be a very nice
thing for perusing a directory full of unfamiliar music.

Here's the things I really miss when on a Windows box:

o A good commandline (or at least a powerful and familiar one).

o Virtual desktops

o Tabbed consoles

o Sloppy focus (focus follows mouse)

o Auto-raise

o Theming and choice in desktop/window managers

o GNU developer tools and third-party apps like valgrind

You can get these things on a Windows box, but they're not there by
default, and after you spend the time to track 'em down and install
them, you find that they run in a krufty (slow, sometimes erratic)
manner.

--
Tux rox!

No, they didn't. That allows you to play a media file from explorer, by
clicking start. It doesn't automatically play just because you happen to
let you mouse pointer land on top of a file.

PowerShell is very power, though obviously not likely to be familiar to
you. There's various implementations of bash, tcsh, etc.. and there's
always cygwin.

> o Virtual desktops

Dozens, if not hundreds of solutions out there for that. Some free, some
not.

> o Tabbed consoles

Powershell, again.

Actually, that's built-in, you just have to turn it on. But it's annoying
as hell.

> o Auto-raise

Not sure what you're referring to here.

XP has had various theming for years, there's entire sites devoted to it.

So install the Win32 versions, or the Cygwin versions.

Uhh.. no.

Oh, how bad. Now they have to innovate that feature.
It will be done in typical MS way, naturally. Incompetent
--
Another name for a Windows tutorial is crash course

Oh, I see. I bring up a point; you selectively snip and without
further discussion, counter that I am a zealot; how troll of you.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

(First 9 points are un-numbered, number added for clarity.)

[selective quotes]
7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics

This is a list of the disinformation tactics that the that
the anti-Linux propagandists who post in COLA have been using.
All of these tactics have been used in COLA by the anti-Linux
propagandists against the Linux advocates and the rest of the
COLA readership to further the cause of the anti-Linux
propagandists. This list has been worded as though you are one of
them, so that you can better see through their eyes how they think.

3. Put your opponent off guard by insulting him. The liberal use
of profanity and vulgarisms can be very effective, particularly
when used against you more dignified opponents. Your experience
as a school yard bully can be handy here.

18. Don't discuss evidence counter to your position. Avoid
examining or discussing evidence counter to your position. This
is especially effective when combined with 3.2.8, Dancing Fool,
wherein you change your position with every post.
[/selective quotes]

--
HPT

Yep, you're a Linux zealot for sure.
Thanks for proving my point.

You might wish to look here:

http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.11.26.101258.24.html

BTW you should use some of that bogus FAQ when you know who posts dozens
of Microsoft hate messages.
They sure look off topic to me.

Additionally, why do you nymshift?

> > o Auto-raise
>
Its the same thing in Windows but you have to turn it on with a program like
TweakUI (its under Mouse). I never liked it Linux or Windows. I think its
even called 'X-Mouse Auto raise' or something like that.

I'm running KDE 3.4 at home on just 256 MB of RAM. Been fine for over 2 years
now.

--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux + tax = Mac OS = (Windows - functionality)
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 105 total, 1 running, 104 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

How do you know this?

Hadron, is that you?

You guys all sound alike.

He is the "true linux advocate". He finds everything disgusting what exists
in linux and has no windows counterpart
--
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware

Since MS hasn't yet innovated this idea, it has to be a stupid one
--
The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners.

Fairly sure.

> about a feature, and that's popup blockers. [..]

I can help you remember another one, if you like.

If you say so. I could go looking, but since I already recall another
time, let's go with that one instead.

Right. Except for that one time when you realised you started to like
them. Maybe that's outside of your definition of "opinion" though, one
can actually never be sure about these things when it comes to you.
Perhaps it's a "lost in translation" thing.

<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/934bdb408ae0356b>

There's about five or six paragraphs where you applaud this nifty
feature called "tabbed browsing" that IE7 has, that's apparently much
better than the firefox variant, even though the things you like about
it in IE7 can be configured in firefox as well. Maybe you just couldn't
be arsed to explore the feature before IE7 had it, who knows?

Let's just call it a hunch, mkay?

[..]

--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
10:49:00 up 15 days, 50 min, 5 users, load average: 0.19, 0.35, 0.33
Linux 2.6.22.5 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

Ah, but just wait till M$ finds how to do it, then he'll claim it's an
"innovashun"!

--
Surely you are not comparing the non-existent Linux (at that time) with
(Windows)98? - Hadron aka Hadron Quark, Hans Schneider, & Damian O'Leary
comp.os.linux.advocacy - Thu, 16 Aug 2007
Message-ID: <npk5rvz...@homelinux.net>

They went to the same Redmond school. ;-)

You think that he is in reality Erik F?
--
Microsoft software doesn't get released - it escapes, leaving
a trail of destruction behind it.

Erik handed out the FUD-manual. They all have the same edition
--
Security is one of those funny things.  You can talk about being "more"
secure, but there's no such thing.  A vulnerability is a vulnerability, and
even one makes you just as insecure as anyone else.  Security is a binary
condition, either you are or you aren't. - Funkenbusch 1 Oct 2006

> No, dummy, file fragmentation isn't a problem when creating large files,
> small files, huge files, or any other type of files. Period.

How stupid can you be? Re-read. Think. Then reply.

I have a crystal ball.

Well, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile
expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "newsreader
magician" and "hardware maven" Hadron Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Damian
O'Leary, please enlighten us where it poses a problem in linux.

Except for swapfiles, although according to you those can't be allocated
non-contiguous

--
"Against stupidity, the very gods themselves contend in vain."
Friedrich Schiller

Spelled O-O-X-M-L ?

--
HPT

uh oh. Now Linux is not just the kernel?!

> No doubt I may get trollish replies, as this is the habit here in
> COLA.

Especially since cola "advocates" are the single biggest pack of technical
liars on the Internet/Usenet.

> Usually these responses result in refuting / disputing /
> imputing / ad nauseum.

Oh, I don't doubt hovering your mouse started the .mp3 playing. As a
Windows user, I have to do a lot more work, and dbl-click the file or
right-click and choose which app to use to play it. When it does start
playing, it sounds great - especially if you have a new Creative X-Fi sound
card. You can run the latest sound hardware, can't you?

> In line with the controlled world-wide media, which seeks to
> alter the truth to form opinion rather than the reader form it;

Thankfully a few cola gods know the real truth about everything.

> are these trollish taunts a part of a conspiracy? You be the
> judge. All I can say is that in using Linux for the past decade,
> it has beat the socks off Microsoft hands down.

Linux/OSS on the desktop was basically a joke from 1991 to 2002 or so.
Lately it's improving as a usable desktop system, but it's nowhere close to
beating MS/commercial systems. And I'll be shocked if it ever does.

> The stability and maturity of the desktop far
> exceed the so-called market leader.

Empirically, the apps on Linux are *inferior* to MS/commercial apps.

> The IT community is ready for Linux.

But the world isn't. And the more Linux-migration horror stories we see
(like Munich Germany: more expensive than the MS proposal, and 4 years later
they have just 1000 desktops migrated, and they still have to rely on
Windows), the

This must be the answer to the question "My bologna has a third name"...
:-)

Or was that "baloney"?

--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
/dev/signature: Not a text file

I said "a bit", and I still find, after almost a year of using IE7 that I
still don't use tabs, because of the problems I have with the violation of
the UI guidelines.

I still like many of the other features of IE7, just not tabbed browsing
all that much.

Again, I said I liked it better in IE7 than I did in FF. And no, you can't
configure FF to act like IE7. You can't make FF, for instance, require
that you click on a tab first before it activates the close X, which means
it's entirely too easy to close a tab while you're trying to activate it.
And you still can't put a new tab button in the tab area.

Regardless, I just don't like tabs that much.

Whatever.

Re-read it yourself, until your eyes callous over if you care to. It
still won't change the fact that fragmentation is not a problem in any
way, shape, or form. Period. Sorry about your luck and all dummy, but
welcome to reality.

Yes, you can. It may even be the default, dunno, it's how my FF is set
up here and at home.

yes you can, ctrl-t

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFG6Yw+d90bcYOAWPYRAsI2AKCwxBM4hJ+ZAAwnnrSX6ULaOEva4ACguGFD
9VdE7pzHeDJyC6s+U+hsMeU=
=mopO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"The Secret of Zen lies in just two words: Not Always So.."
- Shunryu Suzuki

Specification that requires 6,000 pages to explain functionality
just has to be that.

Office Open XML Part 4 - Markup Language Reference:

[quote]
Annex B. Schemas – RELAX NG

This clause is informative.

This Office Open XML specification includes a family of schemas
defined using the RELAX NG syntax. The definitions of these
schemas reside in an accompanying file named
OfficeOpenXML-RELAXNG.zip, which is distributed in electronic
form only.

If discrepancies exist between the RELAX NG version of a schema
and its corresponding XML Schema, the XML Schema is the
definitive version.

End of informative text.
[/quote]

There is nothing relaxing about the specification.

Take this baloney for example:

http://ooxmlhoaxes.blogspot.com/2007/02/
ooxml-hoax-1-spec-is-too-long.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/2laq3x

[quote]
Also the ODF spec isn't really 8800 pages to implement is it:
Here in the bottom of this article by Miquel de Icaza
http://http//tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-30.html it
suggests, with reusing several w3c standards and with OOXML using
a bigger line spacing in the specs, that implementing ODF specs
would cost almost the same amount of actual specification to be
implemented as OOXML.
[/quote]

Incidentally, clicking on link:

http://http//tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-30.html

yields, "Server not found
Firefox can't find the server at http."

I took all of the specification documents (6,036 pages) excluding
the zipped def. files and came up with the following:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/
1d62880edb8a2c5a

or

http://tinyurl.com/2ujfp3

[quote]
Normalising OOXML to ODF:

6,036 Pages x (264.06 : 309.28) = 5,153 Pages.
[/quote]

--
HPT

It's the environment, asshole.

Bingo! I told the truth, why do you call it a lie?

What does bringing up a hardware detail by a purposely controlled
monopoly have to do with previewing MP3's?

Oh, so my bringing up MP3 preview capability now makes me a god?

Even a decade ago, the Unix engineering workstation quality of
the KDE and Gnome desktops with multiple desktops beat Windows
hands down. You do engineering, don't you? Oh, you have no
Unix experience on engineering workstations 20 years ago? Oh,
the agony, the shock, the horror!!!!

Example? Oh yeah, I forgot, MS Notepad, Write (Wordpad) are all
quality apps bundled with Windows.

Oh, so you ran out of breath. For a moment there I was starting
to float from all the hot air you were spewing.

--
HPT

You can bet the moment some OSS wack reverse engineers an X-Fi driver we'll
never hear the end of it. Until then... pop crackle hiss.

No, it's the way you cola "advocates" know the real truth about everything -
the media, operating systems, how to run Microsoft - that makes you gods.

> ...the Unix engineering workstation quality

You should use this phrase in every one of your posts... wait, you already
do.

That Munich Linux migration story is very instructive re: the sheer pain of
Linux.

I notice you're not including the page counts for the external
specifications that are necessary to implement ODF, such as SVG.

To implement ODF, you would have to read and understand all the
supplementary specifications as well. You're also not including the fact
that ODF 1.2 is likely going to be over 1000 pages.

The argument that OOXML is too long to understand, but ODF isn't has to
include everything necessary to implement ODF, not just the base
specification, otherwise you're simply not comparing apples to apples.

...

I'm not sure what your point in including this was. RELAX NG is actually
an OASIS standard.

Look at the URL.. look closely. You can figure it out, i know you can.

From the link above:

Size of ODF with external specifications included.

ODF 722 pages
SVG 719
MathML 665
XForms 152 (converted from html using winword, ymmv)
XLink 36 (converted from html using winword, ymmv)
SMIL 537 (converted from html using winword, ymmv)
OpenFormula 371
----
3,202

And that's not including the specs that those specs reference. For
example, SVG also references CSS, Javasciprt, DOM, etc..

It wouldn't surprise me if, all told, a complete set of documents to
implement ODF would far exceed OOXML, maybe even double the size.

Does this mean you take exception to the user interface of VS2005 and
the SQL2005 management studio as well then?

So certain, are you? Well, maybe you really mean that /you/ can't, but
for other people it's certainly possible.

I have no "close X" on any of my tabs in firefox. I do have one at the
rightmost end of the tab bar though, it closes the currently active
tab when I click it. Mostly I just right-click the tab I want to close
or press ctrl-w, since I find that much quicker.

That depends entirely on how many tabs you have open and what you set
the minimum width of the tabs to, but I do see your point. In fact, I
personally don't like of having a close button on each individual tab
in the first place.

Again, /you/ might not have the required skills to do so, but I
certainly can put a new tab button in the tab area. I don't want one
there, since I just push ctrl-t to get a frech tab or press alt-return
after typing in a URL to make it open in a new tab.

Your previous article indicated you did, and it also indicated a
change of mind (the "I never thought I'd say this, but.." part).

I do like tabs a lot, since this lets me organise web pages into
categories, I can have all the relevant pages to a project I'm working
on, or an issue I'm looking into all gathered in one window.

This makes "switching context" just a matter of switching firefox
window. That's neither here nor there, though, I just wanted to point
out to you that you seemed to have forgotten changing your mind over
a feature, and for some reason just as it became available on a
microsoft product.

Well put.

09:10:55 up 15 days, 23:12, 2 users, load average: 0.17, 0.19, 0.18

No, of course not. Those are MDI interfaces, where individual documents
are all related to the same project.

Web pages, while they may be related, are usually not. Also, I don't nkow
about you, but I tend to work with a lot of external applications when i'm
using web pages, which makes it much easier to alt-tab and find the page
i'm looking for than it is to Alt-tab to the browser, then ctrl-tab to the
page.

Oh, I suppose you're going to tell me there are extensions that will do
this. Funny how you guys will bitch and moan about having to find device
drivers to install your OS, but then gush about having to spend hours
finding extensions for your browser to make it more functional.

You must be using an older version of FireFox, it's not been that way in
quite a while. And that's even worse. I'm currently using a Dell 30"
display (2560 pixels wide), that means to close a tab I have to move the
mouse to the far right of the screen. Yes, I could right click on the tab
and choose close, but that defeats the purpose.

No, that article I indidcated I liked them "a bit" better than I had
before, and that was because of the way that IE had implemented them. That
doesn't mean I like them overall.

If FF didn't use so damn much memory per open page I could see how you
would find that useful, but I can't imagine, unless you've got 8GB, that
having dozens of pages open would be all that useful in FF.

Are you claiming that OOXML has the definition for SVG, MathML,
Javascript, CSS, DOM, etc in the OOXML spec? or does it not implement
them?

iD8DBQFG6tmZd90bcYOAWPYRAlGNAJ0bAW9f8CJToC18+iaZHYjw1TUMcgCeL8Oc
THI+VMkX1ak40z4pzjSbsG0=
=m9M4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I see stupid people

So pull the tab out of the browser, and it becomes it's own window. At
least with FF, dunno about ie7.

you claimed it couldn't be done.

I just hit ctrl-w, but that's me.

13 tabs open in 2 FF windows. FF using 77MB resident, 187MB virtual.
Looks fine to me.

iD8DBQFG6trqd90bcYOAWPYRArsEAJ4xcrsgo9vfty7xR6n7nPrMjepMmwCgxuME
IbGbQQKRGsgNYlTIqXSXzY8=
=UgON
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"If guns cause crime, mine must be defective." -Ted Nugent