Quick question: would it be possible for all of the coworking spaces to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage, massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as a group to have greater price negotation?
We've been thinking about and discussing this at Citizen Space for some time.
The best model that exists is Freelancers Union -- and I think Noel knows more about their situation. They're registered as a special type of organization that allows them to buy health care at a discount/group price and unless we figured out some way to centralize coworking (which I'm personally reticent to consider), it'd be hard to leverage the size of our community (or potential community) to convince anyone to give us a good rate.
Now, on the other hand, if we were to create a kind of membership organization or 501c6 that charged dues, we might stand a better chance of negotiating a deal -- especially if we teamed up with a freelancer-friendly organization like the AIGA.
My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
At the lower end of the spectrum, I think we could try to arrange a meeting with the folks from TriNet and see if they could help us...
Googling around a bit I came upon the National Association of the Self-Employed (http://nase.org/) that seems to offer low-cost health care, but I have no idea about their reputability. I'm hoping that over time someone from the community will emerge who knows more about this stuff than I -- but in the meantime, why don't we start writing up the kind of coverage we'd want as a coworking collective and see if we can't go from there?
Chris
On 3/4/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quick question: would it be possible for all of the coworking spaces > to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how > the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are > self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with > self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage, > massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone > involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as > a group to have greater price negotation?
> Best, > Brad
-- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur & Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I still have hospital bills!
It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part of the nightmare of administration.
I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
So you were paying $600, and riya was paying something around $200 above that.
As it turns out, if you have any sort of staff and decent cash flow, $200/month/head is pretty good for HR services, because Trinet picks up all the legal liability as well.
There really is no "solution" here. It's a process, that changes with the scale of the organization, and as employment law changes at state and national level. Going from 1 person (me) to say, 5 people is pretty big jump. I don't know where the next jump is after that.
-d
On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote:
> > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I > still have hospital bills!
> It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part > of the nightmare of administration.
> I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable than the Freelancers Union.
> > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I > still have hospital bills!
> It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part > of the nightmare of administration.
> I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources that we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us some options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > than the Freelancers Union.
> On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), > and I > > still have hospital bills!
> > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something > is > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is > part > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > before.
It sounds like a partnership situation is the best way to do this, to ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the Freelancers Union, etc.
Best, Brad
On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote:
> We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of > Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources that > we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is > called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us some > options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> > Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > > than the Freelancers Union.
> > On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), > and I > > > still have hospital bills!
> > > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something > is > > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is > part > > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > before.
I'd mention AHIRC http://www.ahirc.org/ Access to Health Insurance / Resource For Care (CivicActions is in the process of working with them on a site redesign). They are a clearing house for health insurance information specifically for artists.
My understanding of frlancers union is that it ain't cheap! upwards of $400 a month.
Insurance rates fluctuate wildly based on age and city of residence.
I would recommend that folks look at HDHPs (High Deductible Health Plans) combined with HSAs (Health savings accounts).
Basically, you assume that as a young health person you are not going to have lots of chronic health care costs, so you get a catastrophic plan that will cover hospitalizations or any big unexpected stuff, then you save money before taxes in an HSA and you use that money to pay your deductibe, which might be as high as $2500. But since your plan costs you around 100 to 200 a month,, your annual health insurance payment is maybe around 2k and the 2500 that you put into the hsa stays there, and you can keep on adding to it up to a certain amount each year.
Sorry if this isn't so clear. It's getting late, but i saw the question so figured i would chime in with some info.
On 3/5/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It sounds like a partnership situation is the best way to do this, to > ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the > Freelancers Union, etc.
> Best, > Brad
> On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of > > Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources > that > > we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is > > called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us > some > > options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> > > Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > > > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > > > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > > > than the Freelancers Union.
> > > On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > > > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to > the > > > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage > son), > > and I > > > > still have hospital bills!
> > > > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. > I've > > > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when > something > > is > > > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would > be > > > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that > is > > part > > > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > > > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and > small > > > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > > before.
Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting resources, ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution that fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might also help to document what people have done in different places... Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a namespaced extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that, together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our collective purchasing power.
It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Chris
On 3/5/07, Gregory Heller <gregoryhel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd mention AHIRC http://www.ahirc.org/ > Access to Health Insurance / Resource For Care (CivicActions is in the > process of working with them on a site redesign). They are a clearing house > for health insurance information specifically for artists.
> My understanding of frlancers union is that it ain't cheap! upwards of $400 > a month.
> Insurance rates fluctuate wildly based on age and city of residence.
> I would recommend that folks look at HDHPs (High Deductible Health Plans) > combined with HSAs (Health savings accounts).
> Basically, you assume that as a young health person you are not going to > have lots of chronic health care costs, so you get a catastrophic plan that > will cover hospitalizations or any big unexpected stuff, then you save money
