The millionaire founder of Kwik-Fit, Sir Tom Farmer, was recently asked to
give his best piece of advice for becoming a business success. His answer
was simple: find a good wife. “I know it sounds romanticised but it’s true,”
he said. “The most important person in my life has been my wife.”
Undoubtedly, many people will find this sentiment romantic. A good many more
might be confused. What exactly does a good wife mean these days? Is it
someone who stays at home to raise the children, or who shares the financial
burden by going out to work? A high-earning glass-ceiling breaker or a yummy
mummy who keeps a well-stocked fridge? In February the Office for National
Statistics told us that the number of couples choosing to marry has dropped
to its lowest for 111 years, and divorce rates remain high. “Good” wives and
husbands are apparently thin on the ground. The Good Wife’s Guide
, published by Housekeeping Monthly in the 1950s, advised women to
put a ribbon in their hair as they served their husbands’ evening meal — a
suggestion that most modern women would deem to be insulting — while a 1958
edition of Housewife magazine invited them to take part in a “How
good a wife are you?” quiz (pictured above). Yet the guide at least set out
exactly what was expected of wives. As the author Marilyn Yalom says in her
book A History of the Wife : “To be a wife today, when there are few
prescriptions or proscriptions, is a truly creative endeavour.”
Some experts believe that as modern life becomes more demanding, what defines
a good partner has not only become obscured but has been pushed down the
pecking order. So much emphasis is now placed on being a Good Parent that
being a Good Spouse comes a poor third after a) the children and b) the job.
Marital conversation is reduced to “Have you got the juice?” “Yes, have you
got the wipes?” The advice given by her mother to Jerry Hall that to keep a
man a woman must be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen and a
whore in the bedroom seems ever more quaint now that housework is
increasingly outsourced, food is fast and marriages become increasingly
sexless (witness the emergence of books for the sexless marriage with titles
such as Okay, So I Don’t Have a Headache, I’m Not in the Mood
and For Women Only , which lists techniques that wives use to avoid
sex). Has the race to raise the brightest child, get him/ her into the best
school, ferry him/her around to the highest number of improving activities
actually put marriage under strain?
Val Sampson, an author and a couples counsellor, has launched
relightmyfire.org, a website dedicated to helping couples to find their
passion again and make each other a priority. She says: “I see a lot of
people who have lost sight of fact they are a couple and see each other only
as Mum and Dad. Women in particular get a lot of affection energy from a
child. They turn to the child for cuddling, touch and sensual needs. They
become almost absorbed by the child. It is like a grenade exploding in a
marriage.”
When some women become mothers later in life their standards of parenting go
up, so they devote even more time to it, often to the detriment of their
relationship, she says. “It is great to put lots of energy into it, but
often you are taking on an unnecessary role. Once your relationship as a
couple starts to disintegrate, it has an immediate impact on your children.
But a happy couple makes a happy family. It isn’t all about ferrying Johnny
to flute lessons; it is about enjoying a night out on your own occasionally
— that’s better for him than being driven to activities.”
So what now constitutes a good wife? Sampson believes it is the way we handle
“equality” in the relationship. “We all think that we have moved on from
those 1950s roles — until we have a child. People get married with a
fantastic view of equality, but don’t think through how that will work in
practice. Once you have a baby, you expect it to be the same, but it’s not.
Point-scoring isn’t going to work.”
A recent survey of 5,000 people found that a lack of sex and the stress of
parenting were among the top reasons cited for arguing within a marriage.
Especially the former. A website for men, www.nomarriage.com, illustrates
this problem with almost comical misogyny. “My wife is a frigid, shrivelled
bitch,” writes one contributor. “Before we were married, we had plenty of
sex, but as soon as we passed the six-month mark after our wedding she
stopped being interested. My wife only f***s when she ‘feels sexy’.
Translation: when I give her jewellery. She is just a withered old bag at
the age of 35.” Here’s another: “[Before we got married] sex then was four
to five times a week. Now I have a four-year-old son who sleeps in my bed
with my wife more nights a week than I do. Sex now maybe once a month.”
Borderline demented as some of these comments are (the website has published
a book that contains a guide to whether a woman will make a good wife, more
of which later), it seems to be a fact that sex within marriage is
suffering. Studies have indicated that when men aren’t touched
affectionately they become more aggressive, and increasingly don’t want any
contact that isn’t sex. At the same time women are encouraged to seek more
independence and not be tied to the home, yet there is a heavy modern
expectation on a man to be a “good husband”.
Laura Schlessinger’s book, The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands
, suggests that in the age of feminism we have paid too much attention to
women’s needs and forgotten that men have them, too. We have also developed
a notion that a woman who seeks to meet her husband’s needs is subservient,
but a husband who fails to meet his wife’s is a pig. “Most of the women who
complain that they are not getting what they want from their husbands should
stop and look at how disrespectful and disdainful they are of them,” writes
Schlessinger.
Anita Jackson, a psychotherapist and the author of Rekindle the Magic in
Your Relationship! (rekindlethemagic.com), says: “One problem with
equality — which I approve of, by the way — is that we have moved away from
the man being the man and the woman the woman, except in terms of the women
having the baby and making more of an emotional transfer. There is still
something about being in relationships with a man/woman role, so the man is
in charge but not controlling and the woman may have her bag full of stuff,
be forgetful and change her mind. Because this is how we are and it
is what we do.”
So what makes a good spouse? Letting natural roles emerge and not fighting
them? “In a way, yes,” says Jackson. “We are being asked to be perfect
parents. We can’t be perfect individuals, let alone perfect parents or
perfect spouses. If we strive for perfection, we lay ourselves open to
failure. If we try to be the best we can be, that’s enough.”
Some take a rather more extreme view. An e-book published by the
nomarriage.com website, written by a man, defines a good wife as one who
wasn’t brought up with Western values. “Pick a woman to marry who will be a
GOOD WIFE and KNOWS HOW to be a happy, successful wife, and KNOWS HOW to
help you be a better husband,” it says. “Pick a woman from a culture that
encourages this. In other words, DON’T marry an American/Western woman. They
are much, much harder to be married to, simply because they have been
trained to NOT make any effort to be good wives. They have been trained to
focus exclusively on their own needs, and to completely ignore yours. They
have been trained in a thousand techniques for making it all ‘your fault’.
Not fun. Being married is damned near impossible anyway. No need to make it
harder.”
Hysterical though this viewpoint is, might we be making things harder than
they need to be? Denise Knowles, a Relate counsellor, says she has to hammer
home to couples the fact that making time for each other is a neccessity,
not an act of selfishness. “There is a misconception that to be good parents
the couple has to be sacrificed,” she says. “I often find myself asking
people, ‘What happened to the couple here?’ Everything seems to be pivoted
around the children and work.” So what is her view of a good wife? “One who
can offer support when needed, but can also receive support and ask for it.”
Margaret Ramage, a sexual and relationship psychotherapist, believes that we
can sometimes become too hung up on the concept of “serving”. “I don’t see
that serving each other is neccessarily a bad thing. It is an act of love,”
she says. “As long as it feels equal, so what? If you are subservient on a
Tuesday and he is subservient on a Thursday, what does it matter? We are so
busy standing on our rights sometimes that we forget important things. Doing
the ironing is an act of love, as is putting out the compost.”
She adds that in striving to be good parents, we forget that the best parents
are often those who are genuinely happy together. “To raise children with
love, there has to be a strong bond of love between parents,” she says. “It
is that love between the parents that sustains them. If it isn’t there, the
child misses something. If people neglect the nurturing they need to give as
adults, their parenting will break down in the end.”
You're absolutely right - not meaning all others are wrong. The best way for a marriage to stay intact, is for us wives to realise that despite equality (which on it's own is destructive),we need to consider the psyche of man - has he suddenly revolutionized to women's lib?
Michelle, Johanesburg, South Africa
I admire and respect a woman who supports her man. What a doll. In the face of opposition of the feminazis; pursuing her calling of wife and mother is a show of courage and strenth. That is nobility personified.
From a single guy: the feminazis make dating a bear trap look positively inviting.
Robin Catton, Hall , Australia
In all honesty - I enjoyed being a SAHW. I really did. Unfortunately, circumstances changed ... Tim got sick and I had to go back into the workforce. There isn't a day that goes by I don't wish I could go back to being a SAHW but the medical bills won't let that happen for a while.
Catherine, Seattle, Washington, USA
Sharon talks about having 2 jobs,the trouble is that when women moved into the jobs sector they accepted jobs at a lower pay rate thus eliminating years of hard bargaining
by unions,I know as I lost a job in maths some 40 years ago to a woman who accepted 2/3 of my salary,she was single,I
was married with a stay at home wife.
Heike is still moaning about some bloke who owes her £300,
what that proves I don't know.
Kit thinks western men who treat women as equals are strong,what does that make the western woman who treats her husband like crap.
Single person and S usan sum up western womens response
to men,this attitude of entitlement,if you don't like them,kick them out and then they wonder why there is a backlash.
K,I would say fine as long as legal entitlements are reversed as well.
Not one person has addressed any issues at all in this blog,
which have to do with the inequitability men have compared to women.Tell me where the equality is?
michael savell, esatbourne, uk
Of course there can be good marriages,there are a few good women out there some of whom have made comment here.
Unfortunately the responses are stereotyped and do not answer any questions.I notice that not one woman has defended the present sorry situation of men,they are all too happy to retain their present advantages and will not suggest any redress so obviously they think men should just put up with the status quo.As I have said before,men want a level playing field and to be recognised as equal in the eyes of the law.Do the men here not understand that?
michael savell, eastbourne,, uk
Men want a level playing field and only then should women be allowed to criticise.In law we see women getting counselling for murdering their husbands,vice-versa=20 years,they can do nothing wrong because there is always some reason that happened 20 years ago,family courts in the UK,held in camera
where the male is not even present but still gets shafted,
dumming down of essential services like the forces,police,firefighting,just so that women can attain the lower standards to steal male jobs.Positive discrimination,
media bias,nearly everything is set up to suit women,the education system with it's plethora of female teachers purely and simply because women always make the rules and male
teachers have left in droves because they are scared to go anywhere near children,add to this male underfunded healthcare,science loves finding and getting funding for new
things just to make women feel better,even politics is feminine biased ,you're now superior,feel better?.
mike savell, eastbourne, east sussex,UK
I am a western woman who's had much experience of the feminist, supremist, man-hating culture that has been created in the last 20 years or so. I agree that men have been expected to be "the good husband" and look after the woamn's needs & have been criticised for "not doing it right" whereas women have been encouraged to do it for themselves and focus on what their partner is not doing/should do for them. This article is seems rather brave in this politically correct society which is one sided in many areas.
As for the the nomarriage website - isn't it funny and typical how the word mysoginist has been used about the men writing on it yet when similar views/comments are writen by women about men, no-one says calls it misandrist (which is the word meaning man-hating). No-one describes the views as demented either. The anti-western women sentiments are not too dissimilar to some women's "anti-asian men" feelings, yet these don't get criticised!
Najma, London,
Well, I believe that the problem of most women is that they're always in a bad mood with their husbands.I could see it in my own parents' marriage, my dad used to work 12 hours a day, take two bus to go to work and more two to come home, tottally tired.And when he arrived at home, what did he find? My mother in a very bad mood, talking just about her problems when my dad just wanted to have a meal and sleep!And when he was resting or having his leisure, she insisted that he must do some chores, and he did them in a good mood in front of her, but as I always was my dad's best friend, he always told me that he was unhappy in his marriage, and he didn't like even the vacations because of spending more torturing time with my mother!Well, 2 years ago my dad died with a disease related to stress and my mother cries everyday in regret.
Now I'm in the way of marriage with a wonderful man, and I know the Happiness is not when the other makes you happy, but when you both make each other happy.
Karen, Rio Grande, Brazil
And one more thing: my boyfriend really wants to marry me.Because I complete him as a girlfriend, as a best friend, as a partner, as a woman, and mainly as his soulmate, his half.And at my side, I can say that he completes me as a boyfriend, as a best friend, as a partner, as a man, as my soulmate, my half.But as the U2 song said "we're one, but we're not the same", we respect each other differences(that are few), and it would sound silly for bitter people, but nothing better than laying in bed and waking up with a kiss and a sleepy smile, pampering each other, doing the household chores together when we can and when doing to each other, and saying "I love you" with a kiss everytime we can.Happily!This simple behavior, or better, way of life, took us away from the depression we had before we met.And happily and in a consense we're going to marry as soon as we can.And the children?They're not my priority.My husband is and will ever be.
Karen, Rio Grande, Brazil
Having been married for nearly thirty years all I can say to add to this debate is that a man must be mad to get married. Women have nothing to offer men. The problem is that most men only find this out the hard way. Also if ‘women want to do it for themselves’ as the song lyric says then what I would say is not only that they should do it for themselves but will have to, as I will not do it for them.
John, Durhan, UK
Equality gone mad is a factor here... when in fact there's no equality but women working hard both outside AND inside the home. No wonder the libido suffers!!! Two full time jobs instead of one and societal pressure to be a 'good mother' rather than in the mid
20th century to be a 'good wife'.
I work with women to access and use their Woman wisdom, passion and power for themselves AND others. This enables them to have an identity, pride, self-belief and respect for themselves as some-one distinctly female. This in turn arouses sensual and sexual energy... when you feeeel sooooooo good about yourself. See www.womenofcourage.co.uk
There is nothing wrong with being receptive as well as proactive, to be vulnerable as well as strong, for the genders to co-operate rather than vie for who's in charge! And this applies to men as well as women.
We all need to learn to value each other in both our strengths and our vulnerabilities. That's what partner-ship is all about!
Sharon Eden, Ilford, UK
It's very telling how many men on this thread are ready to slag off 'Western' women.
I'm one myself. I believe in family values, give-and-take, devoting time, effort and money to the relationship. I would feel offended if he felt he had to buy me stuff. I would not dream of taking anybody's money if a relationship broke down etc. etc.
Most Western men I had relationships with were, in hindsight, shockingly immature.
The slightest whiff of expectation - really, just the very slightest, such as: shall we plan a holiday together? or the guy who after the relationship ended refused to pay me back £300 he still owed me - made them spout crap about how their manliness was being undermined.
Really, guys, there are a great many lovely, devoted, tender and caring potential wives out there, but in my estimation, it's YOU who have to get your act together.
Heike, London, UK
Marriage is for women, as divorce is for women.
Why enter into a contract where you could lose your children, money, house and future earnings if your wife is unhappy?
Parson Jim, San Diego, California, USA
In response to DS from NY., the reason there isnt an article concerning how to be a good husband is because men have been subjected to the constant complaints re: how we should do things, that NOW it just fall on deaf ears. Woman on the other hand, have had the priveledge of having the faulty, destructive things they do unilaterally, undiscussed. If woman dont want to hear it, men cant say it. The contradiction is so blatantly obvious that men have adapted by ignoring.
Harvest, New York,
Behind every "strong" woman is a weak man. Inside every "strong" woman is an inadequate little girl. Behind every successful man is a "strong" woman usually telling him he's wrong !
John Williamson, Birmingham, United Kingdom
My partner is very ambitious & focused. She's also beautiful, kind and very strong-willed! Typical Alpha Woman. Yet, the highlight of her day is coming home and wrapping up on the sofa with me! Yes there are times when I want to sit in my own space, she appreciates this also! While i'm the chef in the house, she does her share, and there's no set division of duties. I think what's been missed here is that the "disgruntled" commentators probably didn't commit to the right person, or they themselves didn't do enough to make it work!
As for the children, I think we in the western world have missed a trick here... In third world countries, having children eases the family burden as there are more hands to gather food/clean/provide funds for the betterment of the family as a whole!! Instead we westerners cotton-wrap the child and supply their every need!
Children are an addition to the family not the centre, the original couple are the essential core. Never forget that!
Julian, Kent, England
"Hysterical though this viewpoint is...."
In what way is that viewpoint hysterical? It's hysterical that men should decide not to marry Western women because 99.9% of them have been indoctrinated by the Matriarchy into believing that they are superior to men/should be entitled as of right to anything they want/should never have to think of anyone but themselves?
Hysterical you say?
I'm a man who's grown up in a feminist, man-hating society, and I'm not laughing.
Chris, Dunedin, New Zealand
Most Westerm men would easily accept feminist equality, if that was what feminism is about. It's not. It's about (female) gender supremacy. Western men have no reproductive rights, are fathers to their children only at the whim of their wives, are relentlessly victimized by the family courts and are discriminated against through affirmative action in education and in the workplace. The good news is that men are increasingly waking up and saying no to marriage. It's a classic example of the law of unintended consequences - feminism is liberating MEN.
Mike, Lincoln, USA MA
You can say whatever you want, but in these comments there is a funny tendency, and now I will reveal it to you:
No western man seems to proclaim that he is happy with his marriage in these comments.
Every time a man says he is happy with his marriage, it's because he's married with a non-western woman.
While I believe women to be alright here in Denmark, I still find this pretty amusing. And it should be a little telling too.
dalsgaard, Haderslev, Denmark
time to let females be true equels,CUT THEM LOOSE ,to stand on there OWN 2 feet without help provided by government funding and taxpayers like myself.
hawkeye, australia,
Women's "traditional" role is a constraining one. It gives women one thing to be good at and one set of duties. Men's "traditional" role gives them much more room to explore all aspects of who they are -- their strengths, their interests, their role in society - even their exercise is part of their accepted activities. Not to say there aren't pressures on men, as there most definitely are. But I think any time a subjugated people has a chance to do and be all they can, they want the chance, and the people doing the subjugating don't want to give up the control and have all kinds of reasons why they shouldn't. They'll even invoke religion to do it, which sullies the religion and the prophets who brought us the teachings.
As a mom, I can tell you why I have little "interest" in sex. I feel like if I relax and spend 20-30 minutes doing something that doesn't "need" to be done, things will fall apart. I actually do have interest in sex, I just don't have the capacity.
Lisa, Concord, USA
Would Sally Donald (letters April 16) please let us know as to which newspaper she refers, and which gives her so much pleasure.?.
Tom Bentley., Newbury, U.K.
do men and women really hate each other as much as these comments suggest? In that case it is wondrous that so many marriages work!
kevin merchant, ware,
Why title the article "in search of the perfect WIFE. Surely the quest is for the perfect PARTNER.
Karen Mutch, Exeter,
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Fine then we will get our women elsewhere. Thai girls India China Brazil. You women are racist are you ? You femnist wont give us attidude for marrying foreigners willy you ?
bigdick, dickcity, dickland
The comments here are hilarious. Here is another viewpoint: I'm so grateful to the feminists (including myself). I am better educated and paid than most of my male colleagues. I like and respect many of them but ONLY for their abilities and personalities, not because of their sex. I am surrounded by strong Western women earning their own money, doing worthwhile jobs and leading men. I like, respect and admire all of them for it. I hope my own efforts have inspired some of them. I have had many male friends and lovers but have never married, and reading some of the comments by the whiny, mother-fixated boy-children here I don't regret it! I have a good life and enough earning power to dictate my own terms. I have a vast array of interests and no need for man/child substitutes like cats. The Eastern European women I know have been all been beaten by their husbands like dogs. Their men are infantile bullies, not strong men. Western men who treat women as equals are the strong ones.
Kit , Allover,
A good article. When will all these chippy feminists realise that dependency on another is a positive thing, drawn from sharing, and nothing to be ashamed of? Men and women need each other and suggestions to the contrary are ill-conceived, arrogant, stupidly modern and rubbish. The only thing feminism has liberated women from is their happiness and this faddish obsession with rights and empowerment is destroying traditional and excellent family values and spawning legions of neurotic, selfish women hell-bent on standing on the rights instilled in them by trashy daytime TV and £1 magazines.
Guy, London,
My husband is a total alpha, thank God. I am a very strong woman so I needed that. He doesn't search for his feminine side - I AM his feminine side. I learned to be a great wife and put him first. He learned to be a great husband and put me first. Together we have an incredible, romantic, passionate marriage (13 years). He truly is my best friend and has my bests interests in mind. He's the only one who really cares that I be the best I can be. I am allowed to be myself in this relationship, but we always strife to learn and grow together and separately. There is a lot to be said for defined roles. He takes responsibility as head of the house but we discuss and make major decisions together. I am very coddled, protected, treated wonderfully, and feel safe and secure - but then again, so is and does he!!
Nan, USA,
There is no one definition of a 'good' wife, or 'good' husband, child or business partner and there never has been. Society may define roles but all partnerships are redefined by the individual partners. My parents and parents-in-law married in the early 1940s. They had long and happy marriages. Both mothers worked for most of their married lives and, at times, both were looked at askance because it was at a time when Society considered a married woman's place was in the home. I got married in the late 1960s. My husband and I defined our partnership in terms that suited us but did not always meet with social approval. Some 40 years on we are still happily together.
Now I see my children defining their marriages in terms that suit them.
Reading the comments on what was essentially a rather silly and lightweight article, it seems to me that all the negative response comes from people, mostly men, who expect to dictate relationships rather than negotiate them on an equal basis
Catherine, Abingdon,
Bob MacDonald says that women are so self centered and so focussed on their careers that they are unable to sustain honest relationships
Funny that. Men work hard all their lives but are deemed *ambitious*.
Your comment is a tad unfair Bob!
Sarah Garrett, London,
It's not all the man's fault, but when he only wants to talk to you, take a shower or come home early in exchange for sex, there's a problem. I got involved in his activities and hobbies only to have him tell me I was asking too much for him to read a newspaper every once in a while. So after 18 years together, I packed his bags, loaded them in his truck and escorted him to the door. When he asked where he was going, I said, anywhere you want, you don't live here anymore. But I was nice, I called his best friend and asked if he could move in there. Now I don't want to get married again, because I don't want another like him!
Susan, South Texas, USA
Tried the western woman and what misery she gave me. Swapped for a latin lady - 7 years on and things are still very good.
A latin girl v western an' there is just no contest. Probably the same for eastern europe, asia, far east, come to think of it anywhere non western women are better than western- except for me mam hehehehe.
Peter, caracas, venezuela
I do agree it takes a couple willing to put them selves first and have respect, love and understanding for one another.Be willing to be in love and not let it fade with kids..gotta keep the sparks flying and love in the air.Husbands still should take the time to romance thier wifes and woman pamper men sometimes to make them feel loved.Being open and honest and faithful.
Kimmy, Independence,
I completly agree.Every couple needs to make an effort for eachother.It is a working progress to beable to work together on everything.It takes two people wiling to give live and recieve love and understanding.It is a commitment based on communication and understanding.Life long dedication to eachother and eachother's happiness. It takes those willing to talk it out and make it work and wanting it to work more than anything.
Kimmy, Independence,
Certain accomplished ladies of my acquaintance have said to me, "I don't need a husband, I need a wife." Have I uncovered a fundament truth, or is this a rather sophisticated brush off? Along the lines of, "I could never spend the night with a gentleman I didn't love". (Presumably Ma'am, that does not include your husband.)
Jason, Yokohama, Japan
A good wife is what every busy woman needs!
Tina, South Wales, UK
Surely we have forgotten 'division of labour'.
I cook, he does the cars, dustbin and sometimes washing, and we both do the shopping and garden, and have done so for nearly 30 years. (and I too was a product of women's lib in the 70s.)
He looked after the children at weekends when they were little and I did during the week. He took them to school in the mornings I collected them in the afternoon, but then I only worked part time.
When we learn that we cannot have it all then we might be a bit happier.
Dee, Northampton,
You can't beat a good wife!
Doug Bates, St. Albans,
I think it is unfair to say that Western women are unsuitable for marraige. Being one myself, I understand the fact that behind most successful married men there is a woman who supported and challenged their thoughts. Sure the path of least resistance may seem reassuring to men, but we are with who we are with because we WANT to be with them, not because we necessarily NEED to. That should be a comfort in and of itself. I think of how difficult it must be to be the sole responsibility for anothers happiness or unhappiness. While it might be nice for a man to have that sort of control over another human being, I doubt that the feeling is reciprocated and resentment in any form is like a poison to a relationship. It is not wrong for a woman to live her life and express herself or to not accept bad behaviour. After all, we teach people how to treat us.
J. Cotton, Cincinnati, US
My parents have been happily married for 33 years and I absolutely love it. The fact that they are obviously still crazy about each other makes me feel happy, and when I go home to see them together with my siblings it's that lovely warm cosy intimate family feeling. What is interesting though is that they're not overly demonstrative with each other in front of us children-that's always been something they've kept separate and private between them (I know they have pet names but I don't know what they are, although they do still send each other silly valentines day cards), and makes their relationship with us much stronger-I've always seen my parents as one unit-bar my father's propensity to buy us ice creams when on holiday they've always agreed on how we should be raised. It's silly to put children above the relationship-they should be separate and just as important.
Ani, London,
What makes a good wife? Surely there are only 2 answers:
1. Mine
2. Nigella Lawson.
Any dissenters?
Paul, Bedford,
A rather more elegant and memorable summary of Gareth Wretham's view on the role of fathers in their children's welfare is the aphorism,"The best thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother".
Jonathan Frappell, Plymouth, UK
I'm alone. I'm alone because I'm no longer expected to marry. I'm alone because I expect companionship, romance, a kindred spirit, and all the other things that, for 90% of human history, marriage has never been about. I'm not prepared to settle for the kind of practical, humdrum, stressful marriage my parents had, and I'm not even prepared to settle for the "happy enough" endings of, say, Thomas Hardy novels. I've been sold perfection and I want it, so it's really no surprise that I'm alone.
Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK
There is wisdom in waiting for sex until marriage. I wonder if the men and women quoted in the article are so dissatisfied with their relationship because they began what was meant to be within marriage before the wedding night? Our society has things mixed up and the consequences are obvious. Within marriage it is not just sex but it is making love and expressing love.
Also, there is wisdom in making your vows until death do you part. Unconditional commitment is scary for most Americans. Divorces would decline if we could simply commit ourselves forever to one another, which means working hard to love even in the hard times and give of yourself even when you do not feel like it.
True commitment, communication and love is key to a successful marriage. I agree that the roles of woman and man are often confused in our society as well as the importance of a stable family life. Children need to experience the love and commitment of parents to grow up healthy.
Heidi, Eugene, Oregon
Whoa. Quoting "Dr. Laura" (as she is known over here) as an expert on anything family-related seriously diminishes the credibility of this article. She has a Ph.D. in physiology (not psychology) and her license as a marriage therapist is expired.
She's just a right-wing radio windbag.
jr, Oakland, , CA, USA
Is the noun feminist a derivative of the word Selfish?
Could the breakdown in relationships and family in the UK be caused by feminism?
Why is it that multicultural marriage is exploding in the West? Could it be because western men and women are seeking something that they can no longer find in their own culture? Questions that no doubt will vex the growing pool of unmarried/ divorced Britons who are approaching their twilight years alone.
Gary H, London,
Actually, I dont find the views in the e-book published by nomarriage.com to be hysterical at all. As a young Indian guy living in Central London for 4 years now, I quite sympathise with western men. This is because I have seen first hand how hard western women can be. The women here (atleast the ones I have come across) just have 'ridiculous' expectations and an arrogance that is not justified by how little they bring to the table from the view point of keeping a relationship. In fact, it is quite becoming a norm here that to keep a relationship going is more the man's responsibility as the women try to become independent. No wonder, most of my western male friends (all of them quite successful professionally) havent had a relationship for years and cant get married!
Nishant, London, UK
I read with interest 'In search of a good wife' and feel sad that life is very much like this. I have been married over four years now and we have a 2 year old with a second on the way. My wife seems hell bent on taking the plunge into mother hood, so much so that I am essentially obsolete.
Why is it that women want everything, firstly the successful career, making equal pay not only a must, but of course the norm, this pushes up earnings and spending power, which in turn pushes up house prices and the cost of living, making it nigh on impossible for the single salary to get on the housing ladder. They then want to leave the profession to have children expecting the father to not only support them but the growing family and all on a single salary in a double salary world! what is going on? The pressure to help, get it right, act in the best way possible is impossible, I struggle on all fronts and to top it off, I am so far down the pecking order that I rarely get even a hello.
Stephen, London,
How about how to be a good husband?
DS, New York,
I've been married nearly ten years and I couldn't be happier. I bring home the majority of the bacon, and he works from home and keeps our home tidy and beautiful, and takes care of most of the cooking. When we were both working outside the home, it was a disaster. It sure is nice to have the luxury of one of us at home.
I found this portion of the article entirely ludicrous: "There is still something about being in relationships with a man/woman role, so the man is in charge but not controlling and the woman may have her bag full of stuff, be forgetful and change her mind. Because this is how we are and it is what we do."
Forget that. I'm crap at the womanly role, I don't accept other people doing the heavy lifting on being in charge, we're both in charge depending on the situation. What on earth is the point of perpetuating gender stereotypes?! They constrain men as much as they do women!
Niente, Lemuria,
Having just finished reading Marilyn French's "the Women's Room" as advertised by the Times only a few weeks ago, and which I bought from your online store, I woudl say shame on you for even running this article.
There is no need to have such a thing as a good wife. Women do not need to be defined in terms of their relationship with another person. They are number one individuals and as great people find time to care for others includign kids. The men that complain about wife's not wanting sex after a while simply have not realised that they never satified their wife in the bed and it was for so many other reasons that the wife agreed to become just that.
Frankly there is limited upside to living under someone else's rules and ambitions. How about the defining the perfect woman: Own income, own kids, no husband (viz independence to run their lives the way they want to and raise their kid with similar freedom). Sociey is moving that way anyway with more divorces and single parents.
Single parent, London,
sucess to marriage is two things, communication and to have no expectations (the latter being more important!!!). If we dont expect anything then we wont feel disappointed. So serve or give without expecting anythign in return and you will be happy.
I think there is too much divorce because people give up too quickly. Marriage is not easy, you have to communicate problems in order to solve them.
Darshna, Harrow, london, England
Life is not so simple these days... I am a happliy married woman (ten years and counting) with two children. I was a housewife for a few years while my husband supported us, and returned to my career a couple of years ago. Last year my husband lost his job and now I am the main provider. He is still looking for a job, but has also been at home with the children. What makes a marriage work, mutual respect. If you respect each other, you make the effort. Women often have to work, the man cannot guarantee being the breadwinner. I cook the food, he does my laundry, we still love and respect each other and we have sex because we still want each other, not as a favour.
K, London, UK
It's pretty easy to understand. The kind of men who are worth respecting and being a helpmate to (as long as he, in turn, is supportive and respective back) are NOT the ones who log onto message boards and complain about what hags/nags/self-centered cows, etc. their wives or women in general are. Men, you will get what you deserve in a partner. Despite the misogynistic rantings articles like this often attract, there are lot of evolved, understanding, nurturing men in the world. They seldom have complaints about their wives...for good reason.
T. Roth, Danbury, CT,
My girlfriend and I have been a couple for just over 17 years, which I have always attributed to the fact that we chose not to have children and not to get married. Nor do we share goods and chattel - it's my house, and my darling rents out her own and uses the proceeds to pay for shared costs including amazing holidays. Marriage may be a worthy institution, but it carries with it a great deal of emotional baggage (tried it, hated it, divorced) and assigned roles and functions. The marriage contract also over-rides the unwritten contract to love, lust after and get dirty with. To take pleasure in each other's bodies and companies. There is too much space in marriage to take each other for granted and it's easy to feel trapped. Children are a disaster and should not be countenanced. Our greatest bond is our freedom.
Peter Pollock, London,
People people people , please can we have some sanity, again with the pigeon holing of Woman now! Instead of men. Really you should know better, a person probably hits every ism on the chart , in their whole life that is.
Respect your partner or wife and move on. Say no to what you dont want and yes to what you do need, compromise when required, add love, sugar optional.
Peter Hagan, Liverpool, England
I don't know why the writer here has chosen to focus on the role of the wife: it takes two good people to make up a good marriage! In my experience of marriage so far, the key is to support each other through thick and thin and act as a partnership of equals, come what may. Individual couples will manage that in their own ways but I don't see why the wife's role should be the focus for this.
The writer is almost suggesting that women should return to the days of silence, denial and self-sacrifice - well, we all know how those marriages worked out. Eventually doormat women who lived that lie got fed up in their 50s and either divorced the man (taking all his money) or turned into living nightmares of passive aggression, resentment and jealousy. What man wants to live with a resentful, downtrodden shrew who is bitter because she feels she has given up her life and sense of self for nothing? No wonder they run off with 20 year olds.
MB, Edinburgh,
The old saying it takes 2 to Tango comes to mind. The most important attribute a good wife needs, ladies and gentlemen is quite simply, a good husband!
Catriona Straine-Urquhart, Edinburgh, Scotland
This works for us, too - my husband knows that when I cook, it's another way of saying 'I love you', and when he washes up it's likewise another expression of love. You have to do things for each other and not focus on yourself. Too many of the world's problems stem from selfishness.
Octavia, Oxford,
I strongly agree with Inge, being a good wife/husband is equally important to being a good mother/father. Love, respect, trust and care - four simple ingredients - always were, always will be.
Nilima Rai, London, UK
I agree with many points in this article. Many women I know sit there bitching about their husbands- How he just wants to watch tv, have sex , play golf etc and they live these unnessary stressful lives and the women stuff themselves with chocolate ,get fat and feel even worse. They wouldn't think of giving their husbands some real affection ,hugs , and make time for them. Yet they moan when hubbie doesn't give them a huge birthday present of jewellery and expensive spa pampering. They want everything and don't give anything back to the relationship. I know it's tiring with kids and jobs ,I'm a wife with kids myself, but you don't need to be a subservient wifey who wouldn't say Boo to a goose either. A little affection and understanding about other's needs is all.
Happily Married Lady, london,
How about an article called "How to be a good husband?"!!!! It could start with "Respect your wife. She is an intelligent and ambitious, fully fledged member of society, just like you."
Why is it women only who should be looking after the needs of the family and their husbands? Surely this should be a mutual endeavour?
NMD, London,
"We are now in our fifties and yes, we regularly still have sex (w/ some help)" -Blossom, Paris, France
That is, uh, mildly disturbing.
Pete, Cov,
A good woman / spouse / mother exists when man / woman / children all feel loved, respected, and supported.
How that happens will differ from one partnership to another.
(You can just as well ask 'what is a good job'? That also obviously depends on the match between the job demands / opportunities, the employee, hir boss and colleagues and the company.)
John, London, UK
An excellent article. It was a pleasure to read it. I have no ax to grind either way.
Una Tantum, CAIRNS, QLD, Australia
Central European women are so refreshing. They shave, they are soft, they love men and families, and as someone else mentioned above, aren't interested in throwing out family values. If you want a kind marriage that will last, marry a central european women. If not, just marry one of the millions of western women who would rather be more like men.
moose, manchester,
I have been happily married since the late 1980s (we married young). I have seen friend's relationships come and go and many people make the same mistakes over and over again. I agree it is the way western women are raised: they are basically engineered to be a relationship disaster. We have a culture of 'pity parties' (on TV: Sex and the City) where women can spend time blaming men for all their problems. But in fact relationships fail because of both partners. Women now are so self-centered, so focused on work and mainstream notions of success, that they can never sustain an honest relationship. Does it matter? When I see all the wayward and violent youth, the broken communities, and all the sad, isolated people out there, yes it does. The west is broken and needs fixing.
Bob Macdonald, London,
I love it. "She is just a withered old bag at the age of 35." And this guy is wondering why his wife won't have sex with him? These guys are either a work of mystogist fiction, or they are the thickest blokes on the planet.
Liz, London,
I'm an Albanian woman who has lived in the West for 20 years and married in Britain. I agree with what the article states about nonwestern women making 'good wives'. Sadly, I have chosen to act as a modern women more than a 'good wife' and am happy to let the husband to the cooking and occasionally the washing whilst I gym and shop. This shocks my family when they come to visit. It works for us and we laugh about it . Our daughter is very happy and I want her to become career minded too. One has to accept that life moves on and so do behaviours.
Gabriela, chester, cheshire
A happy marriage is based upon both spouses putting each other first and striving to make the other one happy. This kind of selflessness runs completely counter to the self-gratifying materialism that pervades every area of our lives today. So it is no wonder less people choose to marry and end up staying married.
To the extent selflessness is achieved within marriage the relationship will be a healthy and a productive one. If a man makes his wife the pre-eminent person in his life (and the wife does the same for her husband) then this creates the most stable and secure environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. If children are put before the spouse then any perceived gains will be outweighed by the emotional damage done to the children from seeing the parental relationship being pushed into second place.
Gareth Wretham, Bromley, Kent
As one about to get married this article was very useful reading. I work full time and love my career but I actually like looking after my man too - I don't mean just cooking, cleaning, ironing etc but working on making him feel loved. This seems to make him more loving (strange that!) and willing to share the household "duties". Lavish affection on your man that's what I say - regardless of whether he does it as much back(he probs won't, thats how they are). But I say this secretly, behind my hand because it seems to be frowned upon by my 'more feminist' friends who expect men to do all the running.
Lindsay, Bristol,
Having been married to a Hungarian woman for 6 years, I can agree with the comment about Western women. Central European women have not been labotomised by political correctness and feminism and so see nothing wrong in trying to please their man. How refreshing! It isn't all a one way street, as we both work, I do my share of the chores without complaint. My wife is now expecting our first child and having read this article, ti think that it is important not to get too wrapped up in the kid and to reserve some totally focused husband/wife time to avoid the pitfalls of turning into a pair of child minders.
Scott, Solihull, UK
Let us start with being faithful and considerate!!! and work out the rest as we go along
tk, edinburgh,
I have always supported my husband in everyway I can so he can pursue and better himself in the career he has chosen : took care of the household, the child we have and never said no when he wanted sex. In return, we are still happily married (touch wood) after 25 years. We still like each others company. We still go on romantic weekends. We are now in our fifties and yes, we regularly still have sex (w/ some help). And our financial situation is thousands times better than when we started off. Yes, I am from South East Asia.
Blossom, Paris, France
On the whole I'd say that it all has to do with emotions & genarally overpragmatic world around. Nowadays, people spend far much time on mental speculations rather than any decent sort of emotional life. It's science all over the place, so people tend to forget that all of us are emotional beings.
Pam, St.Petersburg,
This article nails it. I have been very happily married 12 years and the strength of our marriage is our commitment to each other first, then the kids. There are times when our school-aged children are put to bed early, because, we openly tell them, we're spending some time together. I have seen the delight on our children's faces when they see us show affection toward one another. It's a powerful emotional security for a child and it's a shame more children don't have it. I serve my husband because I love him, and he does the same for me because he loves me. We have a mature, adult partnership of mutual respect and love and I know that it is rare. How sad that it is because I think so many more men and women could have it if they only learned that true love causes you to give of yourself without keeping score. You can give without loving but you can't love without giving.
Inge, Milwaukee, WI , USA
Really this all boils down to women working: we are encouraged to have a career and to work hard. We get married/involved with someone and incur financial commitments such as a mortgage which require us to continue working and contributing financially but then we have children and everything falls apart. I am too tired to work, too tired to iron, to tired to chat in an evening, too tired to be bothered about my appearance etc etc. This impacts on my partner who has to help with the housework and childcare and so he is similarly tired. I want to step off the work treadmill and devote more time to my family but we can't afford it. I don't know what the solution is but the current state of affairs is miserable. There is also tremendous pressure on women to be perfect parents. Publications such as "The Times" could help by not constantly running articles about the rights and wrongs of nurseries, the best education for your child etc etc.
Sue, Sheffield, UK
Simply the best artical of this nature I have read in years. Married for 10 years, no kids but can certainly relate.
Douglas, Cape Town, South Africa
Where are all the good wives? They are alive and well here in Jacksonville, Illinois, U. S. A.
James, Jacksonville, Illinois U. S.