Mailing list search service

1. Re: HTML 5 and XHTML 2 combined (score: 14) (2,852 bytes)
Author: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:25:19 +0000 (UTC) List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <9aa897060901031306i56a373a7tf94bdae00c768d65@mail.gmail.com> References: 1

As far as I'm aware all the advantages of XHTML2 that are not incompatible with the goals of HTML5 have already been taken into HTML5 (e.g. <section>, <a href=""> can contain blocks, <abbr> and <acro

2. markup spec [was: Re: Should we Publish a Language Specification?] (score: 20) (7,177 bytes)
Author: "Jim Jewett" <jimjjewett@gmail.com>, Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:56:08 -0500 List: Public/www-html

I'll go farther and say that http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/ is such a good start that I'm ready to start commenting on it. Some of these comment would apply to the original spec as well, but

3. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 201) (2,261 bytes)
Author: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:22:37 +0000 (UTC) List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4773B958.2080209@acm.org> References: 1

I've updated the HTML5 spec to mention this. Either is described as ok, but the expansion, if any, must follow the tense of the contents of the element. See the last example of: http://www.whatwg.org

4. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 232) (6,944 bytes)
Author: Nicholas Shanks <contact@nickshanks.com>, Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:44:20 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <478697E7.8030307@david-woolley.me.uk> References: 1 2 3 4

--Apple-Mail-2-751844899 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose I meant to add "that are pronounced as words". It was a clarifi

5. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 292) (4,702 bytes)
Author: "Dustin Boyd" <rpgfan3233@gmail.com>, Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:37:56 -0600 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <478697E7.8030307@david-woolley.me.uk> References: 1 2 3 4

Just adding my perspective into this tangled web of a discussion - First of all, we're getting slightly away from the primary issue when we start talking about how screen readers should or should not

6. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 232) (3,206 bytes)
Author: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:10:47 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4C60E51D-2B19-4A01-B846-3C22DBF0523B@nickshanks.com> References: 1 2 3 4

You've changed your definitions! The ones you now use are the ones I understand to be most correct English, and appear consistent with the OED definition of acronym. However, you started by saying: T

7. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 268) (9,141 bytes)
Author: Nicholas Shanks <contact@nickshanks.com>, Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:14:10 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <025b01c852bb$5cbe0c60$0400000a@DOCENDO> References: 1 2 3

--Apple-Mail-4-462034611 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well spotted. But then the page is application/xhtml+xml anyway. The text

8. Re: [Spam] Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 226) (4,355 bytes)
Author: Christoph Päper <christoph.paeper@crissov.de>, Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:22:39 +0100 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <03f601c85244$87ac2a00$0400000a@DOCENDO> References: 1 2 3 4 5

Jukka K. Korpela: That's a very common scenario in hypertext environments, though. I would expect any hypertext markup language to help solving such issues that are unusual (although not impossible)

9. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 207) (2,741 bytes)
Author: "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor@Rhul.Ac.Uk>, Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:06:04 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <025b01c852bb$5cbe0c60$0400000a@DOCENDO> References: 1 2 3

Does HTML define a paragraph (<P>) ? The nearest I can find to a "definition" is the following : which is about as vacuous as one can get. Would you (Jukka) therefore argue that <P> should be expunge

10. Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 226) (3,430 bytes)
Author: Barry Rader <brader@boldinternet.com>, Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:31:33 -0500 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <03f601c85244$87ac2a00$0400000a@DOCENDO> References: 1 2 3 4 5

Being that I do lots of Government work I often do bills and legislative pages. Now do you need to read and entire bill to get the entire concept or merely do you need to understand a specific sectio

11. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 237) (5,025 bytes)
Author: "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>, Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:30:03 +0200 List: Public/www-html References: 1 2

That's not HTML, is it? But maybe it is of interest to see that no <abbr> or <acronym> markup is present, or needed, and wouldn't be needed even if you wanted to specify the pronunciation of an abbre

12. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 219) (7,010 bytes)
Author: Nicholas Shanks <contact@nickshanks.com>, Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:02:24 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4782623D.20501@hccfl.edu> References: 1

--Apple-Mail-16-382128930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On my website I use the following markup for my county of residence, Her

13. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 201) (1,990 bytes)
Author: David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:07:16 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4782623D.20501@hccfl.edu> References: 1

Any pronunciation hint really needs to be in something like the International Phonetic Alphabet. Not that any hint helps if the page gets machine translated. -- David Woolley Emails are not formal bu

14. Re: [Spam] Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 213) (3,055 bytes)
Author: "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>, Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:19:25 +0200 List: Public/www-html References: 1 2 3 4 5

If you jump into the middle of some page, you cannot expect to start reading it smoothly. Why would abbreviations and acronyms deserve some _special_ treatment? Strange _terms_ are much more difficul

15. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 219) (2,100 bytes)
Author: Martin Kliehm <martin.kliehm@bluemars.net>, Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:04:43 +0100 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4783ADC2.7010701@boldinternet.com> References: 1 2 3 4

Mia would not be marked-up, but MIA would, and like David said, modern screenreaders either know how to pronounce it or they can be taught. But I agree that _two_ elements for the same thing is confu

16. Re: [Spam] Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 213) (2,787 bytes)
Author: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>, Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:56:59 +0100 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4783B670.3000507@boldinternet.com> References: 1 2 3 4 5

It gets better. Given that you may not arrive at the content where the content start, you might not even know it /has/ been expanded somewhere. So either the author need to expand the abbreviation/ac

17. Re: [Spam] Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 232) (3,022 bytes)
Author: Barry Rader <brader@boldinternet.com>, Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:44:16 -0500 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <A1EF4AEF-90DB-4EE6-B412-E86EB6095479@dorward.me.uk> References: 1 2 3 4 5

I am not saying you should not give your first definition. Using Jukka's Method I could have to scroll up some 500 lines to see the first instance. I am not saying these tags are for everyone. howeve

18. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 226) (2,528 bytes)
Author: David Dorward <david@dorward.me.uk>, Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:28:47 +0000 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <4783ADC2.7010701@boldinternet.com> References: 1 2 3 4

The case of the second and final letters in the word (or abbreviation). AFAIK, most screen readers already do this (as well as using internal dictionaries to determine if it should be pronounced 'mia

19. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 292) (4,030 bytes)
Author: Barry Rader <brader@boldinternet.com>, Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:07:14 -0500 List: Public/www-html
In-Reply-To: <029101c85216$379c2fc0$0400000a@DOCENDO> References: 1 2 3

For someone who cannot see how would they distinguish when your abbr and acronym is not just a word. Say for example MIA we have an MIA named Mia and we are discussing her. you define the first occur

20. Re: Question about HTML abbr and acronym tags (score: 262) (3,815 bytes)
Author: "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>, Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:47:54 +0200 List: Public/www-html References: 1 2

No it isn't. The alt attribute, though related to poor design of HTML (the <img> element was just a kludge from the beginning, and restricting the alternative content to plain text was a bad choice),