 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
Comment Preview
|
Thanks to all who have sent e-mails in support of our book efforts! I promised myself I wouldn't cry. I also promised myself that I would post this re-run from 06 August 2007 while we continue to earnestly rattle away on our keyboards.
In the early 1990s, a Russian drilling rig encountered something peculiar two miles beneath the coldest and most desolate place on Earth. For decades, the workers at Vostok Research Station in Antarctica had been extracting core samples from deep scientific boreholes, and analyzing the lasagna-like layers of ice to study Earth's bygone climate. But after tunneling through 414,000 layers or so– about two miles into the icecap– the layers abruptly ended. The ice below that depth was relatively clear and featureless, a deviation the scientists were at a loss to explain. In search of answers, the men drilled on.
Unbeknownst to the Russians, their drill had mingled with the uppermost reaches of one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world; a pristine pocket of liquid whose ecosystem was separated from the rest of the Earth millions of years ago. As for what sort of organisms might lurk in that exotic environment today, no one can really be certain.
In prehistoric times the Antarctic continent was much more temperate, with lush tropical foliage and thriving wildlife. But millions of years ago the Earth's extra-flaky crust caused the landmasses of Australia and South America to gradually peel away from Antarctica, creating a ring of open sea around the southernmost continent. This allowed a massive oceanic current to begin encircling the pole, deflecting warmer northerly currents away from Antarctica's shores. Without warm water to moderate the temperature, a scab of polar ice developed over the formerly forested lands.
Roughly forty million years later, in 1996, the men and women of the Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research (SCAR) urged their Russian colleagues to halt their indiscriminate drilling. 
From Columbia UniversityAirborne radar and satellite altimetry had finally managed to penetrate the thick mound of ice over the south pole, and after electromagnetically groping every rock and crevice in Antarctica, a flat region 155 miles long and 31 miles wide was detected below Vostok Station. As improbable as it seemed, SCAR researchers surmised that a liquid lake must lie just below the Russians' steadily advancing bore shaft. In order to avoid contaminating the huge lake with surface bacteria and drilling chemicals, the tunneling had to be stopped.
Lake Vostok was found to have approximately the same surface area as the great Lake Ontario in North America, with more than thrice the depth. Separated from sunlight by two miles of solid ice, the subglacial lake is a place of profound darkness and bitter cold. The water temperature is estimated at 3 degrees below zero Celsius, but it maintains a liquid state due to the crushing weight of the polar ice slab; the temperature at which water freezes is significantly lower under such phenomenal pressure. It is also suspected that geothermal heat from the ground below adds some ambient warmth. According to the ice cores extracted by the Vostok Base scientists, the lonely lake has been sealed beneath the ice for at least 500,000 years, but possibly as much as 25 million.
As requested, the Russians temporarily suspended their drilling efforts pending further study. Their borehole– which was filled with sixty tons of kerosene and freon to prevent re-freezing– stopped within a mere 300 feet of the lake surface. The anomalous ice they had encountered turned out to be lake water which had long ago frozen to the bottom of the slowly migrating glacier. These ice samples provided a few insights into the lake's anatomy, such as its lack of salt, and its absurd overabundance of oxygen; under extreme pressures oxygen will more readily dissolve in water. If the drilling over Vostok had continued uninterrupted, thereby encroaching upon the liquid portion of the lake, the hapless Russians might have been assaulted by a towering geyser of ancient water and liberated oxygen due to the astonishing pressure of the hidden body of water.
Unusual microbes found in the ice above Lake VostokIn the wake of the lake's discovery, there arose considerable debate regarding the likelihood of finding life there. The environment is remarkably similar to the dark and cold ocean below the surface of Jupiter's ice moon Europa, so the discovery of life in Vostok could have interesting extraterrestrial implications. Due to the cold, the complete absence of sunlight, and the toxic levels of oxygen, many scientists are certain that Lake Vostok is sterile. That, however, would be a scientific first, since never before has a completely lifeless body of water been found on Earth. Extremophile organisms have turned up in the unlikeliest of places, including within volcanic vents on the ocean floor, in the rocks deep in the Earth's crust, and in frozen arctic soil.
It is not unreasonable to suggest that cold-tolerant creatures could thrive in the waters of Lake Vostok, overcoming the oxygen saturation with extraordinary natural antioxidants. But millions of years of evolutionary isolation in an extreme environment may have created some truly bizarre organisms. This notion is supported by the ice samples drawn from the ice just above Lake Vostok, where some unusual and unidentifiable microbial fossils have been found. But the possibility that they are merely contaminates has not yet been completely ruled out.
At present, a number of researchers are mulling over methods to investigate the lake's unique ecosystem without defiling its pristine nature. The introduction of any organisms or chemicals from the surface could irreversibly pollute its waters, and there is a small but real possibility that the lake's alien organisms could be dangerous to humans. To date, the best candidate seems to be the cryobot, a fittingly phallic penetrating probe designed to gingerly work its way into the virgin lake. Its heated tip would melt a channel straight into the ice as it unspools a power and communications line behind it. The melted water would quickly re-freeze behind the cryobot in temperatures which linger around minus 100 degrees Fahrenheit, and once it finally reached the water it would eject a small submersible hydrobot to capture images and take measurements.
The Cryobot is happy to see youThough most scientists are proceeding with considerable caution, and some advocate avoiding the lake altogether, there are reports that the Russian researchers intend to restart drilling in order to reach the lake before their rivals. The Antarctic Treaty of 1961 guarantees all nations the right to conduct non-military scientific study on the continent, therefore little can be done to intervene if the men at Vostok station insist upon proceeding. Several smaller lakes have since been identified beneath the Antarctic icecap, but geologists speculate many of these are linked by a network of under-ice rivers, so contaminating just one lake might taint them all beyond repair.
If science seizes the opportunity to properly explore this perplexing pocket of liquid, it would be equally enlightening whether there is a plethora of life or a complete absence thereof. If the lake is found to be sterile, its desolate waters will provide some measure of insight into life's practical limitations. But if living things do indeed lurk beneath the thick Antarctic icecap– even if only in microbial form– their presence will demonstrate that life is made up of truly resilient stuff, with scientific implications well beyond the scope of our planet.
Further reading:
Flash animation of the lake's environment
NASA article on the Cryobot
Lake Vostok from space (image)
MSNBC article: Antarctic Lake is Pollutant Free, for Now
Wikipedia: Extremophile
Wikipedia: Antarctic Treaty
It's only a matter of time before they find that temple that the Predators keep the Aliens in.
You're playing a dangerous game, science!
"and after electromagnetically groping every rock and crevice in Antarctica"– aam I the only one to find this hilarious?
I think I saw something about this in Sci-Am, but I don't recall reading anything about the Russian drill team. Those Russians must really like extremely deep holes. Maybe they think the Earth is filled with vodka or something.
On a more serious note– Has anybody seen the new species (pl) they've found in Antarctic waters earlier this year? Pretty interesting stuff.
Meathammer said: "It's only a matter of time before they find that temple that the Predators keep the Aliens in.
You're playing a dangerous game, science!"
What a bad movie. Funny, but BAD.
Wait a minute. The Ruskies get their vodka by drilling for it?
"You're playing a dangerous game, science!"
What a bad movie. Funny, but BAD.
What about The Thing, then? With TWO alien monsters running around down there, there's like a… 200% chance we're going to uncover one of them! If I understand how statistics work.
Curse you, science!
Wait a minute. The Ruskies get their vodka by drilling for it?
Only in a perfect world.
Yeah, I know I'm a Neanderthal and all, but I really don't give a rip if they keep this ice lake uncontaminated or not.
Say they explore conventionally with drills and classical apparatus. Say they find microbes at the lake level. If said microbes exist at ground level as well, you can either dismiss them or accept the possibility that they can exist at both levels.
If you find "exotic" microbes with no analog on the surface, then you may assume that they came from the lake level. If the exotic bugs are interesting, maybe something can be learned or developed from the discovery.
Ultimately, if these bugs are not useful in some way, what's the point? And their usefulness comes not so much from where they were found but in what knowledge can be gained from them, IMHO.
Recovery of the bugs is important– that's something that does not appear particularly feasible with the space dildo probe.
Didn't "The Scientists" find microbes thriving in nuclear waste? Was there a DI article on that? That was quite unexpected, so i don't see why there wouldn't be a whole plethora of lovely little bugs n stuff down there. Gee's people poke around a lot and look in some pretty weird places for things. I'd love to see what's down there, but if it means smashing in some poor bugs environment that has kept them safe and sound from us all these years, is it really worth it? The more this sort of thing happens, the more i think we are a virus, infecting every nook and cranny we can get to…
I think it's important to go down there and find out what's lurking (we will anyway). We need to co-opt the Russians into the Great Ice Dildo Plot first, however. It might take the combined experience of men all over the world to plunge a phallus so deep into mother earth.
Anyways, I'd be less scared about messing up this environment, and more scared about some weird virus that could be in the lake, and unleashed upon humanity by when and if we bring that ice dildo contraption to the surface.
maybe i may be wrong here with this but i have always thought that ice is fresh water because salt makes it melt… am i wrong here? i was also thinking that the pressure of 2 miles of solid ice would surely create enough heat to melt the ice, thereby creating pockets of unfrozen water? surely at that depth the water would be unable to freeze due to pressure and geothermal warming (due to the lake's proximity to antarctic faultlines and volcanism)? i dunno. sounds like the ruskies were drilling for vodka indeed. (why is it that the russians always drill deeper than the americans?) there is something unmicrobial, even fishy, about their claims i think. as far as contaminating the underground rivers of antartica i seriously doubt we could do any worse than a two-mile hole filled with kerosene. am i not right in saying that kerosene is formed from oil which is formed through the bacteriological decay of carbon-based living organisms? so in my opinion the damage has already been done. let them drill. antarctica needs some new tourist spots and a huge freshwater geyser would be well worth visiting… i would….
Hmm… I thought that the salt makes water freeze at a lower temperature, but not that it stops it freezing altogether. Also, the article mentions the effects of pressure and geothermal pressure being the reasons that it is unfrozen.
My question is, did the Russians just happen to be digging in the right place? What made them dig there instead of somewhere else with a couple of miles of ice?
jerry: Salt makes ice melt by lowering its freezing/melting point. Water that's completely saturated with salt will still freeze if you get it cold enough.
I don't think it's heat that's causing the water to stay liquid; as the article said, the lake is three degress below freezing. Normally, if you put enough pressure on a liquid it will turn solid. A good example is the Earth's core, which is solid iron. It's hot enough down there to melt iron, but the pressure of the Earth keeps it in the solid state.
Water is peculiar, though, in that when it freezes it forms a crystal and increases in volume. My guess is there's just not enough room for this transformation to take place under such pressure.
As for contamination, you'll note that the Russians stopped before they got to the liquid part of the lake. So nothing has gotten into the water yet.
agooga:
You're assuming that we can learn everything there is to know about this environment in one trip. With more knowledge and better technology people might be able go in and discover something that we never even thought to look for the first time.
And if we do find something down there that's useful or interesting, we don't want to destroy it in the process. Scientific explorers learned that lesson the hard way long ago.
jerry maxwell said: "as far as contaminating the underground rivers of antartica i seriously doubt we could do any worse than a two-mile hole filled with kerosene. am i not right in saying that kerosene is formed from oil which is formed through the bacteriological decay of carbon-based living organisms? so in my opinion the damage has already been done. let them drill. antarctica needs some new tourist spots and a huge freshwater geyser would be well worth visiting… i would…."
The kero is contained and confined to one spot where it is insulated from spreading. i think getting it into a pristine water body which is subject to circulation and convection would be considerably worse. And environmental damage shouldn't be rated based on how it affect humans or our biosphere. there is a responsibility to minimise spoiling of areas like this that are completely untouched by our destructive, clumsy ways
Leave the lake alone!!!
DI article as usual…
lasagna-like layers of ice… Earth's extra-flaky crust… awwww now I'm just hungry!!!
Didn't the X-Files do an episode or a movie on aliens in Antarctica? What if any implications could their be for health care futuristic cures and technology to encounter life that has adapted to such an oxygen rich environment? Don't plants give off oxygen? Maybe all their oxygen that they gave off over the trazillions of eons is trapped in there? What implications and potential applications could there possibly be toward the advances in technology that would allow humans to live in more extreme climates than Earth? I look at it this way: If we hadn't decided to explore space we wouldn't have amazing gizmos like calculators. The Earth's waters are underexplored given their proximity to us compared to the moon and planet Mars. Should we take the time to probe deeper into their depths many great discoveries, creative breakthroughs and exciting applications await us as humans. That is my optimistic view. A more pessimistic view would be that bottled water companies everywhere are salivating over a great new product idea.
The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
The Russians have been drilling for vodka since time began.
6000 years ago Eve & Adam were taking a walk through Eden
and asked Boris & Natasha, what's with all the holes in 'your'
front yard? 'This place is too perfect' snarled Boris.
Or was it 13 billion years ago, no matter, to this day Antarctica
is the only continent without apple trees.
Good work and DI as well
I think the Russians are planning a suprise attack… Drilling a tunnel to the United States. Once they take over, they will intall a puppet President who will take away all of our rights. I think they will come up under the White House. Wait, we are too late. We already have a puppet President in the White House. They are already here… Condi Rice translates the orders.
Actually the flash animation above shows that there is a thick layer of ice moving over and through the lake the whole time, like a conveyor belt. Over a long time, it replaces all the water in the lake. This means that there is a whole layer of ice off to one side that contains a high concentration of lake run-off, including any microbes, etc. Scientists could study this first, instead of penetrating the lake's icy hymen with a hot phallus.
Another thing about the cryobot- when it goes deep, ice will re-form after it. Does this not grip the cable and prevent further, er… penetration?
I think the cable unwinds itself from within the phallic device…kind of like…well nevermind…
Hmmm- a lost lake, frozen underground for centuries - bet they find an underwater dinosaur - which they'll then let loose to roam the earth's oceans, devouring people - I see a disaster movie coming.
Half a million year old lake under two miles of ice? I say don't worry about it, just blast on in & learn what we can from it. Al Gore says the ice will all be melted in a couple of decades anyway.
Interesting article probobaly won't amount to much tho, no aliens no strange creatures just a lake with nothing in it. Although apparently according to the article this could be equally as interesting. hmmmmm. I want aliens!
Can't we just leave well enough alone? The lake has been just fine without us for all these years, why ruin a good thing?
Let the Russians drill for their vodka somewhere else.
It sure doesn't sound like them Russians where out looking to study pristine lake water. What where they hoping to find out there? Like any self-respecting country they do a lot of scientific research, but in Antarctica? I thought Russia had perpetual lack of funding for any research for which there is no expected financial gain… I mean, even less than other countries. Where they hoping to find something else to make their troubles worthwhile?
Also, without reading the name of the autor, I knew who wrote it when I read the word "phallic". Im not judging, just pointing out.
I think you might want to leave out the penis jokes next time, Alan. It seems people can't leave a phallus well enough alone.
Question about the probe (implied word "anal" notwithstanding): Wouldn't the probe pick up bacteria and other organic scum on its trip through the top ice? Surely it would still contaminate the lake below.
Also, anyone making a pool on how long before the water is bottled and sold?
jerry maxwell says: …i dunno. sounds like the ruskies were drilling for vodka indeed. (why is it that the russians always drill deeper than the americans?)…
Maybe they have longer "Poles". ;-P
Lisette says:…lasagna-like layers of ice… Earth's extra-flaky crust…
I think this puns for our "chef" floj. :+)
supercalafragalistic says:…A more pessimistic view would be that bottled water companies everywhere are salivating over a great new product idea…
Trykt says: …anyone making a pool on how long before the water is bottled and sold?
Yep, that was my first thought; yum, bet that would taste good. lol.
Illustrator says:The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
EinsteinsBrain says:…the Russians are planning a suprise attack… Drilling a tunnel to the United States…
They don't have to drill, dear, they are closer than you think! A little over twelve miles away.
http://www.mapquest.com/atlas/main.adp?region=alaska
Now check this out!…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070806/ap_on_sc/gene_popsicle;_ylt=AhvMat7QET.D9aINfMGrzYMPLBIF
Entombed microbes flourish again in lab
By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, AP Science Writer
Mon Aug 6, 5:04 PM ET WASHINGTON - Microorganisms locked in Antarctic ice for 100,000 years and more came to life and resumed growing when given warmth and nutrients in a laboratory
Damned Interesting! Thanks again Alan, and uh, keep it up. ;-P
Virgin ecosystem? . . .. . . . . Penetrate it immediately!
Trykt said: "I think you might want to leave out the penis jokes next time, Alan. It seems people can't leave a phallus well enough alone."
Perhaps you're right… but judging from the photo of the cryobot I knew that such comparisons were inevitable either way. When it comes to humor, sometime you've got to take the low-hanging fruit (no pun intended).
agooga:
You're assuming that we can learn everything there is to know about this environment in one trip. With more knowledge and better technology people might be able go in and discover something that we never even thought to look for the first time.
Like what?
Ice. Rocks. Water. Maybe some tiny bugs.
I honestly don't care whether they use the silver pleasure probe or an oil well drill– or just pack it up and forget about it. Honestly, it seems like a waste of time.
jerry maxwell said: "maybe i may be wrong here with this but i have always thought that ice is fresh water because salt makes it melt… am i wrong here? i was also thinking that the pressure of 2 miles of solid ice would surely create enough heat to melt the ice, thereby creating pockets of unfrozen water? surely at that depth the water would be unable to freeze due to pressure and geothermal warming (due to the lake's proximity to antarctic faultlines and volcanism)? i dunno. sounds like the ruskies were drilling for vodka indeed. (why is it that the russians always drill deeper than the americans?) there is something unmicrobial, even fishy, about their claims i think. as far as contaminating the underground rivers of antartica i seriously doubt we could do any worse than a two-mile hole filled with kerosene. am i not right in saying that kerosene is formed from oil which is formed through the bacteriological decay of carbon-based living organisms? so in my opinion the damage has already been done. let them drill. antarctica needs some new tourist spots and a huge freshwater geyser would be well worth visiting… i would…."
the Russians drill deeper becasue they know that oil is not a product of dead lizards but a natural product of the earth
Alan Bellows said: "Perhaps you're right… but judging from the photo of the cryobot I knew that such comparisons were inevitable either way. When it comes to humor, sometime you've got to take the low-hanging fruit (no pun intended)."
That bot just looks like a cylinder to me. I think what you are experiencing is called an obsession. Luckily it can be treated nowadays.
wargammer said: "the Russians drill deeper becasue they know that oil is not a product of dead lizards but a natural product of the earth"
What, like magma? Complex hydrocarbons dont spontaneously come into existence.
S0122017 said: "That bot just looks like a cylinder to me. I think what you are experiencing is called an obsession. Luckily it can be treated nowadays."
Awww, don't Cryobot it! ;-)
Evil Twin said: "Can't we just leave well enough alone? The lake has been just fine without us for all these years, why ruin a good thing?
Let the Russians drill for their vodka somewhere else."
What actually makes a lake be "just fine"? If it can further science..go for it. It's not as if we have plans to have Oil tankers crashing through this lake…or dumping our industrial waste down this drill hole. It'll be "fine" if we explore it or not, so might as well explore away.
Whoever asked if the Russians just happened to be drilling in the right place….this lake is the size of Lake Ontario. That's f'ing huge! Stumbling across this would be like stumbling across the Grand Canyon, you didn't really have to be looking for it, you just find it due to it's enormous size.
http://www.fedpubs.com/mpchrt/maps/mappix/wslont.jpg
If the drilling over Vostok had continued uninterrupted, thereby encroaching upon the liquid portion of the lake, the hapless Russians might have been assaulted by a towering geyser of ancient water and liberated oxygen due to the astonishing pressure of the hidden body of water.
With modern directional drilling techniques they could come up underneath the lake. That would eliminte most chances of contamination. New B.O.P. (blow out preventers) would contain that darned old geyser.
oldmancoyote said: With modern directional drilling techniques they could come up underneath the lake. That would eliminte most chances of contamination. New B.O.P. (blow out preventers) would contain that darned old geyser."
True– but it seems that the water would freeze before it got to the surface. I doubt there'd be a geyser at all, but what do I know?
I just figured out the Russian propensity for hole-diggery. Read the article "The Gravity Express" and you'll probably see where I'm going with this. They want the world to be 42 minutes away from obliteration at all times. Those cunning S.O.B's.
I would like to see spending for underground nuclear payload defence mechanisms. We won't be truely safe until an operable system is in place.
Though I can see the point in digging for underground vodka deposits with a temperature below freezing. Delicious mixed drinks for everybody.
Meathammer said: "FIRST!!!"
"…there are reports that the Russian researchers intend to restart drilling in order to reach the lake before their rivals."
Seems humans have a large desire to yell "FIRST" ….
vonmeth said: ""…there are reports that the Russian researchers intend to restart drilling in order to reach the lake before their rivals."
Seems humans have a large desire to yell "FIRST" …."
pfft…..jealous
Tink said: "Awww, don't Cryobot it! ;-)"
Now *that* one was truly evil, Tink. No more vodka for you tonight.
There is an editorial in the NYT this morning (albeit regarding Russian activity at the *other* pole) that might shed some light at to Russian motivations for exploration:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/opinion/08borgerson.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1186578020-taKgxT50wN8e5shCNtZnfg
Although I do like the vodka theory!
Meathammer said: "It's only a matter of time before they find that temple that the Predators keep the Aliens in.
You're playing a dangerous game, science!"
HECK YES!!! Or maybe they will find some nasty germ strand that we do not have any Immunity for and it will cause us all to be infected with rage like in the Movie 28 days! …..Now where is that nice piece of liver I had..yes , my Fava beans and Chianti is a nice added touch too…fuffffffffff…lol
Jeffrey93 said: "What actually makes a lake be "just fine"? If it can further science..go for it. It's not as if we have plans to have Oil tankers crashing through this lake…or dumping our industrial waste down this drill hole. It'll be "fine" if we explore it or not, so might as well explore away.
"
It depends on what's down there, really. If there's something we decide is worth having, can we trust our greedy race not to do whatever it takes to get it?
Also, we can't know what kind of damage we can cause by exploring it. Is it possible that drilling a hole to this lake would relieve the extreme pressure that allows it to exist? The risk of damage to this contained ecosystem far outweighs what we could benefit from learning about it. We know it exists and we know why. Isn't that enough? I can think of a number of other places on this planet that would have been better off unprobed by us.
Nicki the Heinous said: "The risk of damage to this contained ecosystem far outweighs what we could benefit from learning about it. We know it exists and we know why. Isn't that enough? I can think of a number of other places on this planet that would have been better off unprobed by us."
A fairly large percentage of the population does not regard anything that does not affect humans as worthy of protection. If you want to argue damage, you have to argue potential effects on humans: if we bung it up now, we won't be able to learn how microbes can survive in ice cold vodka ;-).
Meathammer: Jealous, no…just saying people like you need to grow up. Everytime I see someone do that I wish I had the access privledges on each place where it happens just to erase the posts as it's childish and serves no purpose.
Tink: *groan* …bad, very bad joke.
…and on the post about the 'ice popsicle,' I'd personally hate to be on the receiving end of that ice dildo bullet at the potential velocity it could be escaping that well kerosene'd(oiled) passage. *Worded it that way to stick with Mr. Bellows lovely line of fallous jokes. Don't blame him for going there, most people may not admit it, but there always will eventually be some joker to call it out so that was a good pre-emptive strike.
Personally I'd love to see the contents of that lake as either way dead empty of life, stuff higher we know of, or newer would all be equally fascinating and reveal many new and valuable things about life in general.
Nicki the Heinous said: "It depends on what's down there, really. If there's something we decide is worth having, can we trust our greedy race not to do whatever it takes to get it?
Also, we can't know what kind of damage we can cause by exploring it. Is it possible that drilling a hole to this lake would relieve the extreme pressure that allows it to exist? The risk of damage to this contained ecosystem far outweighs what we could benefit from learning about it. We know it exists and we know why. Isn't that enough? I can think of a number of other places on this planet that would have been better off unprobed by us."
The risk of damage to this contained ecosystem far outweighs what we could benefit from learning about it. Oh really? For all you know the cure for cancer is down there. Is that ecosystem not worth curing cancer?
Besides, we didn't know it existed. We were doing fine before finding it…and we'll be doing fine, if not better, after exploring it.
If I told you there was a newly discovered planet called Trashbgone….and then told you we are going to dump our garbage and nuclear waste on it, would you be upset that we are destroying a planet that, until just now, you didn't know existed?
Maybe this will make what I'm saying more clear…..I tell you today that you have an Uncle you have never met or even known about. I tell you tomorrow that he died. Do you cry over the loss?
This "lake" isn't doing us any good by leaving it be, it might not do us any good by exploring it…but it can't hurt. If it weren't for those Ruskies we wouldn't even know it existed….so how can we possibly get upset over exploring it? If it weren't for exploration we wouldn't have even known about it. Doesn't make sense to explore to find things…then once you find them…just pack up and go home.
Nobody ever answers my questions. :(
I'm gonna go Cryobot it (seriously that was awesome).
How the hell do even know about TrashBgone? My people have been keeping it a secret for millenia…
J.K. said: "Meathammer: Jealous, no…just saying people like you need to grow up. Everytime I see someone do that I wish I had the access privledges on each place where it happens just to erase the posts as it's childish and serves no purpose….(later)…. *Worded it that way to stick with Mr. Bellows lovely line of fallous jokes…"
Ummm….saying first is childish, but dick jokes are ok?
Geez, lighten up.
MiladyM said: "HECK YES!!! Or maybe they will find some nasty germ strand that we do not have any Immunity for and it will cause us all to be infected with rage like in the Movie 28 days!
I'm more afraid the water might be used on someone's vegetable garden. Attack Of The Killer Tomatoes anyone?
Of course we have to explore it. Look, this is an ecosystem that has been seperated from us for anywhere from 500,000 to 25 million years. For all intents and purposes, it is another world, just as surely as if it were an alien planet. Would we stage a mission to Mars just to stop at orbiting the planet and looking down? Yes, be careful; yes, do not contaminate it; but for pete's sake, we have to explore it. That is what we do.
Dictionary Search Results
Sorry, we have no matches for fallous
Did you mean fallows?
Other Suggestions:
fallouts , falls , callous
*****
Definition of phallus
NOUN: pl. phal·li or phal·lus·es
1. Anatomy
A.The penis. …
2. A representation of the penis…..
3. The immature penis considered in psychoanalysis as the libidinal object of infantile sexuality in the male.
I love it, you guys crack me up!
Jeffery93 - Maybe the dodo had the cure for cancer? Or some other animal that's now extinct due to human presence…
Holy crap this is cool. I must say, all the phallus jokes in the world must have been used up now within this article alone.
Jeffrey93 said: "The risk of damage to this contained ecosystem far outweighs what we could benefit from learning about it. Oh really? For all you know the cure for cancer is down there. Is that ecosystem not worth curing cancer?
Besides, we didn't know it existed. We were doing fine before finding it…and we'll be doing fine, if not better, after exploring it.
If I told you there was a newly discovered planet called Trashbgone….and then told you we are going to dump our garbage and nuclear waste on it, would you be upset that we are destroying a planet that, until just now, you didn't know existed?
Maybe this will make what I'm saying more clear…..I tell you today that you have an Uncle you have never met or even known about. I tell you tomorrow that he died. Do you cry over the loss?
This "lake" isn't doing us any good by leaving it be, it might not do us any good by exploring it…but it can't hurt. If it weren't for those Ruskies we wouldn't even know it existed….so how can we possibly get upset over exploring it? If it weren't for exploration we wouldn't have even known about it. Doesn't make sense to explore to find things…then once you find them…just pack up and go home."
I wasn't discussing the sentimental value of the lake, it's not a matter of being upset or not. Destroying something unknown is a bad idea whether we need it or not, because we don't know what effects us and what does not. The unknown planet Trashbgone could have effected us positively without us knowing and before we know what we've done, it's destroyed, damage done, no going back. Say that a man came across an animal in an unknown forest and mankind hadn't seen this animal before. He captures it, studies it, euthanizes it so he can take it apart and see how it works. We could find out afterwards it was one of the last breeding pair of a species that keeps the population of disease-infested rats that may cause an outbreak. Shouldn't we have backed away from it in the woods and observed it from afar? I'm not saying we should ignore this lake, but maybe we should adapt a more 'hands-off' approach to how we learn things.
The reality is no one knows exactly what is down there. Someone will go there no matter who says "oh you can't do that". With that in mind, it would be a good idea to perform the deep penetration lovingly and gentle for mother earth's first time than to let some evil hymen smasher have thier way and not call the next day.
Exploration does not carry a negative connation, people do. Purposely going out of our way not to know something simply because things are "okay the way they are" is actually practicing ignorance. That isnt an insult, just a proper description of the reaction I noticed. I placed no negative connatation on that, so none should be read from what I said.
There isnt anything inherintly wrong with the pursuit of knowledge. However, haphazardly pursuing knowledge at all costs is something different and inherint of those of similar character. These thoughts should be kept in mind when comming to conclusions about these sort of things.
Kao_Valin said: "The reality is no one knows exactly what is down there. Someone will go there no matter who says "oh you can't do that". With that in mind, it would be a good idea to perform the deep penetration lovingly and gentle for mother earth's first time than to let some evil hymen smasher have thier way and not call the next day.
Exploration does not carry a negative connation, people do. Purposely going out of our way not to know something simply because things are "okay the way they are" is actually practicing ignorance. That isnt an insult, just a proper description of the reaction I noticed. I placed no negative connatation on that, so none should be read from what I said.
There isnt anything inherintly wrong with the pursuit of knowledge. However, haphazardly pursuing knowledge at all costs is something different and inherint of those of similar character. These thoughts should be kept in mind when comming to conclusions about these sort of things."
Good call. That's what I meant, but you clarified it somewhat. We needn't be so reckless.
P.S.
Hymen Smash would be an excellent name for a metal thrash band. ha ha!
Nicki the Heinous said: "If I told you there was a newly discovered planet called Trashbgone….and then told you we are going to dump our garbage and nuclear waste on it, would you be upset that we are destroying a planet that, until just now, you didn't know existed?
Maybe this will make what I'm saying more clear…..I tell you today that you have an Uncle you have never met or even known about. I tell you tomorrow that he died. Do you cry over the loss?
This "lake" isn't doing us any good by leaving it be, it might not do us any good by exploring it…but it can't hurt. If it weren't for those Ruskies we wouldn't even know it existed….so how can we possibly get upset over exploring it? If it weren't for exploration we wouldn't have even known about it. Doesn't make sense to explore to find things…then once you find them…just pack up and go home."
I wasn't discussing the sentimental value of the lake, it's not a matter of being upset or not. Destroying something unknown is a bad idea whether we need it or not, because we don't know what effects us and what does not. The unknown planet Trashbgone could have effected us positively without us knowing and before we know what we've done, it's destroyed, damage done, no going back. Say that a man came across an animal in an unknown forest and mankind hadn't seen this animal before. He captures it, studies it, euthanizes it so he can take it apart and see how it works. We could find out afterwards it was one of the last breeding pair of a species that keeps the population of disease-infested rats that may cause an outbreak. Shouldn't we have backed away from it in the woods and observed it from afar? I'm not saying we should ignore this lake, but maybe we should adapt a more 'hands-off' approach to how we learn things."
You must have a lot of regrets. Maybe if we did this…this would have happened, maybe if we didn't do that this wouldn't have happened. You can't second guess everything. Yes we need to explore as much of our planet as possible. Yes we need to put effort into not damaging the planet as we explore. However, if I may cause 'some' damage to the planet by exploring it….well….sorry, I'm still exploring.
Think of the damage we cause to our own atmosphere each time we blast a shuttle into orbit. That's a helluva lot of pollution from one source, and for what?
The science and technology we gain from space exploration may one day help us deal with pollution, even that pollution that was caused by the space exploration itself.
It's opportunity cost, sorta. How much could we benefit compared to how much could we suffer. Benefits are unknown so they would always outweigh the negatives. This lake might be the fountain of youth. This lake might have some unknown gases that will escape into our atmosphere and remove 100% of the pollutants and restore the ozone layer. Or….we might pollute a lake, kill some species and not benefit at all. Personally…I'll take the risk of destroying this lake assuming that we probably won't and we will probably benefit from it's exploration somehow. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Can't win 'em all. You've gotta break some eggs to make an omelet.
Bewildered said: "Jeffery93 - Maybe the dodo had the cure for cancer? Or some other animal that's now extinct due to human presence…"
Maybe the Dodo could have been the source of a disease that would have eventually wiped out mankind? We just happened to wipe out the Dodo first.
If an animal is extinct because of humnan presence. Tough. I'm not condoning brazingly invading nature and destroying it. But if I survive and am maybe better off at the expense of another animal….I'll miss that animal.
This is like those stories you hear about where people were paralyzed after their vehicle veered off the road and into a ditch…..because a squirrel ran across the road. I'm not saying aim for the squirrel….but don't put yourself out by trying to avoid it.
Explore cautiously…but remember…we are what is important, not the microbiological life that might be found in some sub-freezing lake under a bunch of ice. I am not saying the little critters that might be down there have no importance at all, but the amount of importance they have is weighed by how they can benefit humans.
Good point :-) Although I personally feel that the search for cancer cures is in vain, cancer is a symptom of a troubled environment (or mind maybe?), and the human body trying to adapt unsucessfully causes tumors. The cause(s) need to be found and eliminated. Therefore, the changes we make to a pristine environment could bring about the same environmental changes that we have brought upon ourselves (or may have been brought upon us by explorers trying to repair their own ill's) and so the cycle repeats…
Everything has a cure, the problem is figuring out what is more practical. Eliminating the causes or finding the cure. Since we don't really know what causes cancer….a cure still seems to be the best bet.
I say scrap the Space Program and find a cure for cancer. But there is big money in both….government contracts for new space shuttles…..and costly cancer treatments. So I predict the status quo will be maintained for quite some time.
Interesting discussion… indeed. But I just can't concentrate on a suitable reply for the sudden craving I have for lasagna… 414,000 fricken' layers of lasagna! Imagine that… Just imagine it.
boredwithfour said: "The phallic bot will suffer unprecendented shrinkage."
WOW, how could we have missed that until now?!?
In the X-Files movie Mulder ends up in Antarctica and rescues Scully from an alien craft buried in the ice.
I've been away for awhile…forgot how hilarious some of you guys are!
What a very interesting article. Didn't those Ruskies already try drilling a few holes in a futile attempt to…well I don't know what they hell they were doing but I remember reading somewhere it got so hot they had to stop.
I think they need to approach this very carefully instead of just drillin' on through. Do some tests first with the ice before they go sucking up "sterile" water. They don't know what's in there; for all we know a virgin form of the bubonic plague is down there. Curiosity killed the cat, remember?
I didn't know Mulder finally found the aliens…
Jeffrey93: " This "lake" isn't doing us any good by leaving it be, it might not do us any good by exploring it…but it can't hurt. If it weren't for those Ruskies we wouldn't even know it existed….so how can we possibly get upset over exploring it? …
This lake might have some unknown gases that will escape into our atmosphere and remove 100% of the pol
FIRST!!!