Rich or poor, we're all now angry about taxes

By Charles Moore

 Have your say      Read comments

'The higher level of energy and food prices is a genuine reduction in our standard of living relative to where it would otherwise have been," said Mervyn King, the Governor of the Bank of England, this week. News: George Osborne refuses to promise tax cuts News: Alistair Darling attacks bonuses for City failure   Gordon Brown [left] and Alistair Darling have been panicked by the rich man's anger, and the prospect of losing his wealth Yes. I am sitting and looking at our household bills for 2005-06, and comparing them with ditto for 2007-08. A typical credit card statement entry for "Sainsbury's s/mkt" in 2005 charges £96.82. The latest says £152.18. The old electricity bill was £267.45. The latest final demand wants £310.30. And gas! £476.56 in 2005, £1,006.08 today. Since there has been no significant change in the habits of the Moore family in this period, almost all of this increase must be to do with inflation. Consoling ourselves as we turn down the heating, we huddle together and watch DVDs. The children had never seen Lindsay Anderson's very silly film If…, so we rented it. It is about a public school where the pupils start shooting the staff, but the bit that caught my attention was when the headmaster, ticking off the hero, reminds him that his parents are paying annual fees of £643 which, says the head, is "no mean sum". If… was made exactly 40 years ago. Since then, the rate of general inflation would probably mean that boarding school fees today should be about £8,000 a year. In fact, they are £30,000. advertisement And shares, which compose my pension pot, have had their worst decade since the recession of the 1970s. Mournful little statements with graphs walking slowly downstairs remind me of this, quarterly. I am not asking for any sympathy. I am lucky to be in gainful employment; and the very fact that I am paying school fees at all shows, though I am often convinced that I hear him sniffing about at night, that the wolf is not really at the door. But if my family is feeling the pinch, the same must apply, more strongly, to the great majority of the population, especially those in the private sector. The interest rates that Mr King needs to charge to do his job of holding down inflation have become a millstone now that the value of the property against which people are borrowing has started to fall. And our national tax burden is such that even someone on the minimum wage is paying nearly 16 per cent. Most people reading this article will, when you include council tax and every instrument of stealth that Gordon Brown has refined this past decade, be handing over more than 40 per cent of what they earn. You would think that this change would change politics. As the years of plenty rolled on, it became fashionable to deride the whole idea of "standard of living". David Cameron seized the moment, in the early days of his leadership, and declared that the "quality of life" mattered more. Yet the paradox of these dreamy, Green, anti-consumer attitudes is that they are, in part, a boom phenomenon. If people get poorer, "quality of life" starts to look like a luxury. "Standard of living" becomes the big issue once again. That is what the governor - carefully avoiding any political content - is saying. So now, you would think, is the moment for a political party to get alongside the consumer, the householder, the taxpayer, and smite the Government which is squashing us. It is not as if Mr Brown and Alistair Darling feel very confident just now. The row about "non-doms" has been fascinating in exposing their weakness. Although it is, in reality, counterproductive to impose new taxes on these people, who do already pay tax on their UK earnings, you would have thought that it would have been easy politics. Who, after all, likes 100,000 rich foreigners paying less than the rest of us and putting up London property prices? The futile gesture of attacking them would surely have done just fine in the polls. Yet, as a friend who advises such people put it to me this week: "There is nothing more difficult to control than an angry rich man." Brown and Darling have been panicked by the rich man's anger, and the prospect of losing his wealth. They have eviscerated their own proposals, while still keeping enough of them to make the non-doms want to leave. Now they are blaming each other for the mess. In his speech to Policy Exchange yesterday, George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, made hay with the Government's non-dom muddle. Arguing for corporation tax to come down, he said that it was "vital to maintain competitive tax rates on the most mobile parts of our economy". He is right. But he had less cheering news for the rest of us - ordinary, individual taxpayers who are, though he did not describe us thus, the least mobile parts of the economy. Mr Osborne will not be budged from his party's commitment to stick with Labour's spending plans up to 2011 if it comes to power. The Tory belief, seared into them by failed strategies in the elections of 2001 and 2005 (and into Labour in 1992), is that oppositions must never give governments detailed economic policies that they can then dissect. When voters switch to a party over economics, the theory goes on, they need reassurance, not fireworks. Unfunded tax cuts - the Tories' popular inheritance tax promises are funded, at least in theory - would spook them. The more enticing the promise, the less it is believed. Tax cuts funded by spending cuts would set up a caterwauling from interest groups which might prove electorally uncontrollable. It is not an inspiring theory, but I fear that it is a correct one in present circumstances. Trust in the Tories is not so high that they can afford to be bold. Their emphasis on "stability" has allowed them to creep up from being 23 points behind Labour on economic competence two years ago to seven ahead today. This is the time in the economic cycle when spending cuts could deepen recession. As it is, the Government is reducing its planned growth in spending, and public sector employees are getting cross. If the Conservatives now promised to be tougher than Labour, Mr Brown would at last have something to attack. But the Conservatives do run the risk, having "shadowed" economic success in recent years, of ending up shadowing failure. Think of the public deficits. "Economic stability" now means moving away from Labour, which, at the last election, it did not. Mr Osborne is doing a good job in building confidence with business. His party needs to do the same job with voters. As we all stare at our household bills, shouldn't there be more talk of better household management of the nation? Shouldn't there be investigations of waste and assaults on bureaucratic power? The word "taxpayer" should be part of every sentence that attacks the Government. And shouldn't the power of good example be harnessed politically? It is striking, particularly in London, how much better Tory councils control spending and provide services than do Labour ones. As council tax becomes such an issue, this should surely be dramatised. In the end, though, I think that we taxpayers are more or less on our own. Politicians are too frightened to help us unless they feel they absolutely have to. Taxing and spending will continue almost unabated unless we revolt against them. I mentioned earlier the uncontrollable anger of the rich man. What about the anger of the poor man, and of the people, neither poor nor rich, who are now getting poorer? Surely that should count for something in a parliamentary democracy.

 Have your say    

Related articles News: George Osborne refuses to promise tax cuts News: Alistair Darling attacks bonuses for City failure

The ludicrous bonuses that even failing businessmen manage to pay themselves as a reward for mismanagement are of course a disgrace, especially when raided from company pension funds.

The governments of the 1980s encouraged our population to develop to extremes two related life styles and attitudes:

a) living on benefits (state, privately raided or inherited/unearned)

b) not paying one's way (evading the level of taxation that one could afford)

(An additional hypocrisy was that the same governments exploited the flag and patriotism for political ends while denying there was such a thing as society, and encouraging tradesmen/entrepreneurs/dealers to avoid supporting standards in their country. The excessive selfishness, greed and related violence we have experienced since is not, of course, "any of their responsibility". It never is with specimens like that.)

New Labour, having abandoned all its ideals, did nothing to correct this rightward and downward drift. There is now no party that dares tell us that we must earn our keep or pay for our country's traditional standard of public services. The ideal of public service is maintained only by an under-rewarded and tabloid-reviled minority whose efforts to counter the loss in standards are probably doomed.




Posted by Malcolm James on February 16, 2008 6:15 PM
Report this comment

We know we all have to pay taxes. What is dreadful is how unfair the system is. For example - council tax. Why should a pensioner on seven thousand a year pay the same council tax as the solicitor living next door who is on 120,000 a year. If we simply increased purchase tax, the rich and poor alike could choose what they want to buy. Why also should we pay so much in tax when MPs and Councillors just rip us off with their second home allowances, jobs for the boys, expenses, and trips to far flung places. We need to scrap our present political system and appoint a board to run GB. A team of about 20 people should do it, supported by extremely bright clerical support. Why do we need over 600 MPs and all of the local councils. What exactly do these Councils do. They pay for services. This could be done from three regional offices in London, Manchester and Glasgow. As for our Civil Service, we really need to look at recruitment (loss of files etc). Choose the best people on merit, not on ethnicity. Time for a complete change in how our country is run. Political parties don't stick to their manifestoes why should we stick with them?
Posted by sylvia evans on February 16, 2008 5:19 PM
Report this comment

In a related headline in today's Telegraph, we hear that Alistair Darling is critical of the massive bonuses being paid to city bankers in return for uncertain or at best mediocre achievement. Quite rightly so, but I would invite his views on the serially incompetent government ministers who waste obscene amounts of taxpayers money on ill-conceived policies, needless interference in personal freedoms and, not least, personal enrichment and aggrandisement. The list is long, and includes almost every NL minister, past or present, but let us not forget that the biggest culprit of all is Alistairs boss, Gordon Brown. His blatant economic stupidity since the early days of New Labour laid the foundations for the current financial crisis. No doubt the great British Public will blame Darling Alistair for the current debacle, but its roots are in Gordons hands.
Posted by Bill Brown on February 16, 2008 5:18 PM
Report this comment

ALL the UK politicians are owned by Brussels/Central Bankers. Voting for another party will not save us from tax tyranny.

Posted by Edward on February 16, 2008 4:51 PM
Report this comment

Gill at 2:48: Correct in every respect, but do you expect that Cameron will change that state of affairs? You forget that the Heir to Blair *WANTS* to spend other peoples money as much as Labour does. He just wants to spend them on other things - as witnessed by Osborne's refusal to promise tax cuts.

Posted by jorgen on February 16, 2008 4:49 PM
Report this comment

"Parliamentary Democracy" is now a misdescription and should be subject to sanction under Trades Description Act.
Posted by Conkeyron on February 16, 2008 4:32 PM
Report this comment

Seriously people: LEAVE!

Canada is a socialist dump but not nearly as bad as SovietEU. Canada has easy immigration as well.

Why would you put up with that tyranny? Live your life for yourself...NOT for others. The ideology of sacrifice is for SLAVES...You have been suckered!

Posted by Dan G. on February 16, 2008 4:31 PM
Report this comment

The first thing that needs to be done right now...Make it a criminal offense for anyone to vote if they took any money from the taxpayer in the last year.

Posted by don on February 16, 2008 4:25 PM
Report this comment

"We should continuously review eligibility for welfare and withdraw it when it is no longer needed."

The political party that suggest this will be voted out for the "crime" of being "mean" (Randy on February 16, 2008 12:44 PM)

No, I don't think so; this is about restoring the credibility of the benefits system, countering fraud and waste, and ensuring taxpayers' money goes to the people it was intended for. And stop the iniquitous penalisation of savers by means testing- if you need help or are incapable of earning for whatever reason you should not be reduced to penury first.

A number of other commentators have the right idea: make self insurance compulsory and fit for purpose, and cut out the middle man (the Treasury); and give proper tax allowances to the insured to pay for it; thus reducing the tax burden at a stroke and taking most people out of tax altogether.

Ring-fencing tax revenues never worked- National Insurance long since became just another tax stream, and is still in the control of the Chancellor, who ensures that it is capped to maintain 'fiscal prudence'! Let the market maintain the balance between supply and demand, and leave the Chancellor to raise taxes to support the armed forces and the rule of law. And precious little else.


Posted by Phil Cowburn on February 16, 2008 4:18 PM
Report this comment

"Bring back all outsourcing to overseas, and if companies refuse, then tax them to the hilt to support those who lost their jobs because of outsourcing."

The companies will just leave if you try this...They are outsourcing because the scumbag labour terrorists have made it too difficult to conduct business in the UK. Kill-off the government and employment opportunities will skyrocket...The UK could easily out-do Hong Kong in wealth creation if we just kill-off the parasites.

Posted by Pete on February 16, 2008 4:18 PM
Report this comment

"We should continuously review eligibility for welfare and withdraw it when it is no longer needed."

Thatcher tried this and now she is a meanie for life. The parasites will get mad and think you an evil person forever.

The UK is dead. Integration in the EU will make it permanent.

Posted by Thomas on February 16, 2008 4:14 PM
Report this comment

All these amazing comments. If you thought something needed to be added or corrected, why not try re-reading the article?

It may be classified as an "Opinion" item, but if you look closely, you will see that it is simply a statement of fact - right down to the reference to a "Final Demand" rather than to a "Bill".

Mr Moore? Very nicely done.

HEAR! HEAR!
Posted by briton on February 16, 2008 4:12 PM
Report this comment

Like mainland Europe, the UK is too far gone to recover to some form of freedom. The UK is now a permanent socialist slave plantation that one will have to escape to be free. Be prepared to live in 400 sq. ft. and not being able to afford to drive if you stay.

Posted by Charles on February 16, 2008 4:10 PM
Report this comment

"However, many costs that people have are about lifestyle choices. If one chooses to eat out all the time, have micro-wave meals, fly on holiday twice a year, drive a large car and have the heating up full blast - then maybe it's time to live with your means and that of the planet!" Do you work for the Government? Personally, I take a flask and sandwiches for lunch (if eating out), stay with friends every other year or so as a holiday, drive a small diesel and don't eat ready-meals. I need to heat the house - I'm a pensioner. How many of your "lifestyle choices" can I make? Yet I am taxed on my pension (take is about to double in April), heating, lighting, diesel (I live in the country without public transport - and have you seen the cost of that lately?), road tax, insurance (don't forget the tax on premiums) and not forgetting council tax. My dental bills have gone up enormously thanks to the Government. My rate of inflation on ESSENTIALS is running about 15% BUT my pension rise is index linked to the Govt's fictional figure. The sooner this lot is out the better. Mind you, numbers on the street mean nothing to this lot. Look what happened after thousands protested against the Hunting Act (pushed through by use of the Parliament Act and much time and money it's wasted for no result, too) AND against the Iraq War. Perhaps we all need to wear Burkahs when we protest this time?
Posted by Andy on February 16, 2008 3:46 PM
Report this comment

Hello Daily Telegraph,

A note please to the people that run this site.

I thoroughly enjoy reading the Telegraph, and the ability to store comments written by your reader’s is excellent.

Can I humbly ask when you have the time you amend the system.

Currently you have on each comment << Report this comment >>

Could I suggest that this is amended so other people can approve, or not, what the comment expressed. There have been many times that I have wanted to do just that, and also to add my own comment directly to the one already written. If you look at YouTube, that’s the sort of thing they now have, it seems very good.

Anyway, have a nice day.

Thank you for your time and your web site.

Paul M. Wilson
Ex-pat living in East Germany.


Posted by Paul M. Wilson on February 16, 2008 3:41 PM
Report this comment

It has been blatantly obvious every time Labour has been in government post WW2 that they have not only been abusing and losing taxpayer's money but also using it against the financially independent and self-determining.

The official attitude of the current incumbents was succinctly summed up for me some years ago by a soon to retire Treasury employee who told me that the official attitude to the loss and waste of taxpayer's money was and I quote verbatim "There's plenty more where that came from."

Your analysis is in my opinion 100% correct Simon Coulter but the situation is much worse than we can even imagine.

By and large Tory voters are so out of choice and a belief that conservatism is the best or the least damaging option. However in my experience most working or lower middle class Labour voters are indulging their misinformed prejudices and hatred of the Tories, they are not socialists.

Unlike the university educated snobbish, condescending, middle class variety who are apparently avid believers in this malignant nonsense.

Or of course opportunists who see a route to power and control thanks to the ridiculous prejudices and bigotry of so many in Britain.

There is surely no other country in the western world that is so self destructive and self defeating as Britain or whatever you want to call it. Labour governments are a sympton of this, a form of political masochism.

At times it seems as if one half of the populace hates the other half and this has predictably increased under Labour.

Meanwhile J. Gill (Feb 16 2:48 pm) think again. Welfare claimants are much more likely to be non-voters these days.

Labour are in power by default and because many do not vote, this is good enough to keep Labour in situ as non-voters are not voting conservative.

In any case I think you will find that a significant proportion of the non-government administrative classes, academia and legal profession are Labour voters/supporters because they are direct beneficiaries of the burgeoning bureaucratic and legislative controls.

Another significantly large tranche of fellow travellers are to be found in the broadcasting and print media, indeed in communications in general.

This was described to me by a very well known freelance newspaper columinist in 2001 as "Bought and paid for by Labour."

So it is not only state employees but a whole strata of society that has been corrupted by Labour's insidious and all pervasive influences.
Posted by Paul (1) on February 16, 2008 3:34 PM
Report this comment

Oh,how I agree with J.Gill.Isn`t this exactly what Prime Minister Thatcher suggested with regard to the poll tax,those who refused to pay it,could do so,but be disenfranchised,after all,why should anyone be allowed to vote if he does not contribute,no taxation,no representation.The young woman who is quibbling about her free housing should be encouraged to find her own without state aid and have any further demands on benefit refused.
Posted by Sue on February 16, 2008 3:26 PM
Report this comment

A nation cannot deficit spend itself to true prosperity.....ENDOF.

The consequence of such a system will always end in bankruptcy and chaos as debt overtakes equity as the primary means for running the country and our everyday lives.

We are approaching a crisis, both in the UK nand in the USA because both nations are approaching economic collapse and terminal insolvency.

To seriously challange the political status quo, the British people need to reassess what the nature of government should be.

To my mind, the primary purpose of government should be to uphold a BRITISH CONSTITUTION, written for and on behalf of the British people and to protect our INDIVIDUAL, INALIENABLE RIGHTS and our CIVIL LIBERTIES.

Under this system, the size and scope of government would be reduced and the rights to self responsibility, self determination and the power to create prosperity will be returned to the people.

What I'm describing is basically the US Constitution, the greatest ever written. Unfortunately, the Americans have allowed their governments to trample upon the constitution. Thus, the USA has descended into a collectivist and militarist, corporate oligarchy financed by aggressive foreign policy, endless war and chronic deficit spending. The final outcome is certain because their dependence on maintaining the dollar as the global reserve currency will end. The dollar will revert to its true value - ZERO

The British people must realize that, not only is our economic system broken beyond repair, the political system that has forced this dystopian nightmare upon the British people is also broken and corrupt beyond repair.

Dare I say that our only escape from certain economic collapse and chaos is revolution, which in turn will create an unprecedented time of turmoil and upheaval. The consequence of not acting will be our return to a time not seen since the middle ages, a life of perpetual debt and slavery.

The focus of debate on the old pros and cons of Labour versus Conservative is a distraction, for the outcome will be the same whichever party is elected to government. The solution being offered by the globalists is the incorporation of Britain into the European Union, the end of national sovereignty and an end to the rights of self determination that should be our childrens' inheritance. The gloabalists are offering a similar socialist solution to America, the North American Union and perhaps a greater union including Central and South American nation states.

This drift to globalist solutions, the end of private property rights and worldwide socialist government must be resisted by ALL people as must the international system of bank credit that will replace all currencies and enslave the people of the world in perpetual debt to a clique of international bankers and the political elite.
Posted by Jack Regan on February 16, 2008 3:17 PM
Report this comment

The people who are really doing something to help us contain our costs and maintain our standard of living are those who run the big four supermarkets, so naturally Gordon the Moron wishes to quash them in pursuit of his make-everyone-miserable policies.
Posted by David Wright on February 16, 2008 3:08 PM
Report this comment

The Tax Payers Alliance has shown the government wastes at least ten per cent of its tax grab each year. Couple this with 3 million illegal immigrants and 5 million useless state paid parasites and the problem is clear as is the solution. Sadly the majority of people who vote Labour are welfare claimants. We should withdraw the vote from all public employees and all benefit recipients with immediate effect. God Save the country as no one else can or will.
Posted by J Gill on February 16, 2008 2:48 PM
Report this comment

When we who pay for this madness have all emigrated (because we shall) who will pay for all the gummunt employees? The only alternative to this is a revolution and I for one am ready for it. I would wake up happy if the military took over but I suspect the top brass is too pussified and have to worry about their pensions. Can anyone else hear Drake's Drum????
Posted by P Watson on February 16, 2008 2:43 PM
Report this comment

It has become very difficult to find an angle in politics that will provide an edge for the Tories over Labour.

This is not because the government isn't in a mess - but because every option to rebalance the Budget appears to invite a backlash about jobs lost or some other response from interest groups affected.

Historically, the Tories came into power and made cuts in taxes and in services and we voted for them believing that this was the right thing to do after Labour got into a mess with the national finances.

What has changed? Is this evidence that (a) "high taxes are always good" and (b) fake levels of apparent employment via 1M utterly unproductive jobs outside the economy but working for the state are a good idea?

Is the essence of 'Labour' - create more jobs even when they are not productive? If that was the simple answer I could see validity in it as a political belief. However, when you look at the actual situation of more jobs, but many bogus and many of them going to immigrants, and no real impact on those unemployed who could be in them - indeed an expansion in those on benefits in our society - the model seems hopelessly flawed.

Labour are taxing us more - and using the money to expand an unproductive public sector and those riding on our backs via benefits.

Are the Tories afraid to challenge the Client State Theory? This is what Labour continues to build. It is not sustainable - and it makes no sense for those in real jobs and paying the taxes which finances this model to support Labour with their votes.

The Tories must not be afraid to talk about tax cuts - because, if the Labour theory is correct, only the client state already voting for the government will be affected, which will not impact on the Tory vote.

The swing voters - all those 'hard working families' being soaked by Labour, are the ones who will put the Tories in, when they clearly understand how their money is used to finance the client state - rather than reflected back in better public services to themselves.
Posted by simon coulter on February 16, 2008 2:14 PM
Report this comment

Gordon Brown sold half our gold at one third of todays peice??
Vote UKIP or BNP. But please Vote.
Posted by Steve Byrne on February 16, 2008 2:06 PM
Report this comment

The Tories pledged last week to put more police on the streets and pay for a midwife for every newborn child at a cost of £1000 per nurse per week. They have also claimed that they will match Labours spending plans. Yet they say that they will cut taxes!! Well I am sorry Mr. Osborne, but I do not believe you. Your maths simply do not add up at all. And for all of you that are saying this is a great idea.......do you have a brain? can you not see that this will not work. It is just another headline grabbing empty promise.

Please try and remember the last time a Tory government attempted such a thing......15% interest rates and MASS unemployment!! You have been warned!!
Posted by josh on February 16, 2008 1:57 PM
Report this comment

Taxation is the theft of our labours. If we left the EU, cut back drastically on Government funding and the mass of unnecessary laws which blight the lives, jobs, and businesses of us all. If we got shot of the Welsh and Irish Assemblies, also the Scottish Parliament, then taxes could be slashed to a fraction of what we pay now.

Added to this, if people were made to take out all encompassing insurance policies which covered them for: health care, unemployment and pensions, we could then get rid of most taxes. We should also return to the system of unpaid politicians as our MP’s were many years ago and our Councillors were up until recent times. This would ensure that those who go into politics were there for honourable reasons rather than self gain and what laws were made would be fewer and far more sensible those those being churned out on an industrial basis in the EU and rubber stamped in our Parliament, as now.

Britain would benefit greatly, we would attract the wealth makers and our country would become the investment place of the world. The only ones not to benefit would be those self serving politicians and vast army of bureaucrats who do nothing other than blight our lives anyway – they would have to learn to live in the real world.
Posted by Derek Bennett on February 16, 2008 1:56 PM
Report this comment

The very first thing the a Conservative government should do on being elected is to conduct a thorough, independent audit of government accounts - past, current and future.

This audit should include:

* all borrowing on the books
* all borrowing off the books (PFI)
* all expenditure commitments which will affect public spending for 5 years after the election
* all expenditure by quangos
* all expenditure by organisations hired by way of contract-out schemes.

The Conservatives should then commit themselves to total accountability in all respects, to include:

* personal responsibility of MPs for departments and for all those who work under them
* a full and detailed financial accounting for all expenditure by government and local government.

Additionally, all taxation raised should be ring-fenced, such that:

* 'national insurance' be spent on just that - insurance.
* transport taxes be spent on transport ... etc.

As someone on these boards has said, this accountability audit should be available online, in real time. We have the technology to do this and we desparately need accountability to return to politics if public confidence in our political systems is to be restored.
Posted by Arlene on February 16, 2008 1:54 PM
Report this comment

For God's sake stop all this moaning. What we need is REBELLION.
Posted by aceastyorks on February 16, 2008 1:52 PM
Report this comment

"Surely that should count for something in a parliamentary democracy."

Well if it doesn't then it will be street 'democracy'. How long can paliament continue to get away with it ! The patience of the ordinary voter astonishes me.
Posted by Dave Morris on February 16, 2008 1:45 PM
Report this comment

Just as the fear of tax rises spooked voters between 1979-1992, so too for tax cuts thereafter. Mr Osborne is wise to keep his powder dry - their time will come again.

Tax cuts became unpalatable once they were perceived as a dogmatic vehicle, imposed regardless of consequence on voters and their public services.

It created a tidal wave of support for public investment and hence any subsequent notion of tax cuts, even those wholly funded by genuine efficiencies, has been swiftly smashed since 1997.

The same must happen in reverse before tax cuts become a vote winner again.

The universal welcome of Mr Osborne's IHT pledge was the first significant sign that the tide is turning.Indeed, it is turning into a tsunami of public anger about to engulf this wretched Govt and their insatiable incompetence.

Just as the Tories lost their way on public spending cuts, so too New Lab on public spending rises.

Mr Osborne must establish a trust with the electorate that tax will be minimised and spent in a way which will enhance their lives. Regaining such trust takes time, though the self-destrucing nature of the Brown Govt is an undoubted bonus.

But he is right to remain cautious. Voters will become far more receptive to his overtures once the Brown fiddling has failed irretrievably.

I suspect the New Lab project is in its death throes, after which Mr Osborne will have sufficient goodwill to actively promote the Right way forward.



Posted by Bill, London on February 16, 2008 1:42 PM
Report this comment

Tell me why, as tax payers we can't boot out all these fools that we call Labour? We are taken each day by them and our money spent on projects and people who don't deserve it.

Stop all benefits, then means test everyone and give them coupons to spend in supermarkets/department stores. Then any immigrant coming into Britain has to have at least 10k to support them and their family, and until they have paid into the system they cannot have the use of free education/health or benefits (after being means tested). No family members can be brought into the Country on the back of the immigrant. All asylum seekers investigated as soon as they land, and make the airlines responsbile for returning them free of charge on the next plane if doubts are raised immediately (done in America).

Bring back all outsourcing to overseas, and if companies refuse, then tax them to the hilt to support those who lost their jobs because of outsourcing.

We need strong leadership, and yes it will hurt, but we have to pull ourselves up and out of the abyss that we are falling rapidly through.

I am heartbroken to see my Country being destroyed through the ideals of leftwingers who have NO idea how to run a country/manage money and democracy.


Posted by Karen on February 16, 2008 1:33 PM
Report this comment

Successive labour governments have only been able to survive by raising taxes untill everyone hurts-then they get voted out and gradually things get more sane and balanced. This time these weak brained tossers have done so much damage I don't see a future here in the U.K. not just from a tax point of view, but from values, morals, character, you name it. I'm going to retire to the land of sun and more intelligent people. ( I can't mention the place 'cause Brits might turn up and spoil the atmosphere.)John Perks
Posted by John Perks on February 16, 2008 1:29 PM
Report this comment

The only vote that counts nowadays is voting with your feet.

The politicians and money men have sewn up the UK economy like a kipper for their own short term game.

No going back.
Posted by Mikey on February 16, 2008 1:25 PM
Report this comment

People in glass houses should not throw stones,Mr.Darling;at the same time that he criticizes businesses for their golden handshakes to the"undeserving"we learn that Patricia Hewitt gets her ticket for the E.U.gravy train as have many others before her,not to mention those who bought their seat in the Upper Chamber,with,presumably,his blessing;if he did raise any objections,he must have done it very very quietly.
If he is so concerned about these large bonuses,perhaps he should concentrate his energies on his fellow parliamentarians who each have two hands in the cookie jar.
There are times when I feel impotent with rage,someone please tell me what can be done.
Posted by Sue on February 16, 2008 1:15 PM
Report this comment

Since when did boarding schools charge 30 000 pounds PA. I work in one and the quoted fiqure is no where close. Check your fiqures!
Posted by Peter on February 16, 2008 1:01 PM
Report this comment

"We should continuously review eligibility for welfare and withdraw it when it is no longer needed."

The political party that suggest this will be voted out for the "crime" of being "mean".

As some have posted here, the UK is too far gone now. If you have any ambition and want to live relatively freer, LEAVE.

Posted by Randy on February 16, 2008 12:44 PM
Report this comment

This is the same thing we have to look forward to after 8 years of Hitlary. The US total tax rate is about 50% now and will be 70% after Hitlary...50% is criminal!

I'm sure that the "Free" hitlary-healthcare will pop us up to 65% just by itself.

The global warming taxes should kill-off about half the population so at least we have that to look forward to..ugh. I think I will move to Australia...If I have to live in government-made poverty at least I want to look at pretty girls.

Posted by Donald P. on February 16, 2008 12:39 PM
Report this comment

In Singapore, income tax is 20% at its highests level, corporation tax is also very low. Yes there is VAT - 7%, there are road tolls during peak hours, and parking has to be paid for alomst 24 hours a day. Fuel taxes are relatively high. But.....the standard of living is high, crime is low, streets are clean and well maintianed, as the government buildings, and the public transport system porobably one of the best in the world. As a consequence there is no lack of national pride, added to which the government rarely runs a deficit - in fact they are busy buying up bankrupt western banks. UK politicians would benefit from lessons from our former colonial outpost - a place I will be loath to leave.
Posted by singapore expat on February 16, 2008 12:38 PM
Report this comment

Look at the emigration figures - 250,000 departed these shores last year alone! That pretty much sums it up. Those who can are getting out. Even the Polish plumbers have had enough and are going home to Poland. This country is in one hell of a mess. Everyone knows it. The politicians can't spin their way out of this. The King has No Clothes.
Posted by Goodbye Blighty on February 16, 2008 12:23 PM
Report this comment

The reason for the democratic deficit, aside from the Boundary Commission (why don't they work faster) is the BBC. Public anger is not reflected in BBC coverage. Why is nothing done about it? The Conservative Party seems to regard the BBC as a 'below the belt target' and says nothing and yet it is at the core of the problems in this country, because there is no resonance on issues that the BBC disagrees with, stemming movements in opinion before they take root, and before the public can focus en-masse on a particular political solution offered from one of the opposition parties.
Posted by halvor heuch on February 16, 2008 12:22 PM
Report this comment

Many years ago I met a kinda-high-level Labour hack in a pub and off-the-cuff (and after a couple tequilas) she told me that the total tax rate should be about 80% of income. I asked her if she thought people would continue to work at that level of taxation and she hesitated a bit then said "Of course, what choice do they have"...No I did not sleep with her...I don't sleep with terrorists.

At that moment, I began a mental transformation and became a government-hating "real man"... I thank her.

Posted by Chis on February 16, 2008 12:22 PM
Report this comment

Paul Amery (February 16, 2008 9:09 AM), there is actually no such thing as the 'poverty trap'.

There is a welfare system which provides a safety net of benefits for people who need them; if you don't need them they aren't payable so you shouldn't get them. What we have is an inefficient welfare system which allows people to cling onto benefits when they don't qualify; and bribing them to go back to work is like methadone for addicts. We should continuously review eligibility for welfare and withdraw it when it is no longer needed.

We also have an iniquitous tax system which taxes the low paid, to the extent that people on benefit are better off than when in work.

The tax and benefits system in this country is completely disfunctional like most of the public services, and needs radical action. Unfortunately the Socialist response of Brother Brown has been to add to it- tax credits- to interfere more minutely into the lives of the citizenry.

It suited politicians to keep people on incapacity benefit to reduce the unemployment figures. Now that they are having to import illegal immigrants to fill job vacancies it suits them to reverse the practice. But it is their casual and inconsistent intervention which is the root of the problem, resulting from a democratic process which is ineffective and insufficiently accountable.

Posted by Phil Cowburn on February 16, 2008 12:20 PM
Report this comment

Why is there no public debate in the media on taxes ?, because the BBC supports high taxes. The Conservative party must pledge to slash the licence fee by 90%. The Conservative party needs the courage to stand up to the left wing media.
Posted by Halvor Heuch on February 16, 2008 12:14 PM
Report this comment

If you managed to buy your first home before prices spiralled out of control, then you're sitting pretty compared to almost an entire generation crippled with either huge mortgage or rental payments. The burden won't even ease for the latter, as unlike mortgages which reduce over time, rent generally rises with inflation.

People under 30 like myself have already suffered heavily. On top of ridiculous housing costs, my student loan repayment interest has stealthily doubled and slashes my pay by £100 p/m.

I'm actually beginning to feel a morbid pleasure in seeing everyone else who ignored the plight of my generation suffer too. These people are generally older, therefore less mobile. Whereas I can simply pack my suite case, stop the rent and move to a nation where my skills and contributions are appreciated. This country and the people who heaped misery on my generation can rot for all I care.
Posted by PT on February 16, 2008 12:10 PM
Report this comment

I am a poor British immigrant living in Spain. My house in in a village of 2500 souls and has 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, large kitchen, a roof terrace and a room with a 7 foot pool table.
My annual Taxes are as follows.
Council tax €53,44
Rubbish €73,21
Water €104,74
Car €109,58
Diesel €1,09 per litre
Phone €66 approx
electric €146 (2 months winter)

Village facilities. Huge communal pool, 2 police stations, 24 hour medical centre with ambulance on station, library, fire station, rubbish collection DAILY and mechanical street cleaning.

We have a income of I state pension and several smaller private pensions. We eat out regularly (3 course meal with wine €8 each).
Spanish culture is such that they still believe that what money they have to pay in tax is used within Spain. It's a political thing and governments who start to hit the Spanish with higher taxes gets the boot at the polls.
I Britain, you are taxed for everything to support a social structure which is groaning under the weight of people it provides for. Plus the huge amounts of money (£7.9 billion) destined for Countries the UK no longer has links with.
The people of the UK get the government and policies they vote for and maybe they will seek a change but which Party will be brave enough to announce policy to create real change. I suspect none.
So Brits, including my family, keep paying up. Your government needs your Money!


Posted by Graham Miller on February 16, 2008 12:07 PM
Report this comment

Absolutely right, that's what everyone else I know has noticed.
Not good at all. What are we going to do about it, that's the question? Whqat CAN we do about it?
Posted by elizabeth schumann on February 16, 2008 11:46 AM
Report this comment

Reading all these comments the level of anger is pretty high - yet it seems people generally feel either impotent or apathetic. (Could the earler comment on 'com-doms' be of symbolic relevance?)

There is a massive democratic deficit at the heart of the UK Governemnt and the EU. I agree with another earlier poster who said that we are now in a post-democratic, post-industrial age. I think we are all reeling with the confusion.

Perhaps the extended use of referenda in the UK and decentralising in the manner of the Swiss Cantons might help. Instead, the state is getting bigger and bigger and Britian is fragmenting into little sub-sections of Europe.

But the political class - and its attending supporting class - are very distanced from the realities of daily life for most people.

For example, I have tried to live on an annual, full-time wage that is less than half the cost of keeping one of Heffer's children at public school! I respect his choices; I went to the local comp and there are vast gaps in my learning. But as a columnist, perhaps he ought to think a little bit more about actual life experience of his readers?

For example, I visited the GP three times over the course of one year in Edinburgh (for which NI charged me around £1,200 out of my annual £16,000 wage) and I had to wait an hour each time - yes, I had an 'appointment' - to be seen for about fifteen minutes in total.

Then, the G.P. had the audacity to ask me if I had private health care!? Taxation would be fine if the tax payer got value for money. But we don't. And we all know it.

At the same time, the system is 'infantilising' millions of people by encouraging them to be dependent upon it. The poverty trap is real, and, as living costs rise, it is becoming harder to escape from.

I don't blame anyone on 'hand outs' who relies on Housing Benefit to put a roof over their head because there is no way they wouldn't be homeless if they began to work. They simply could not earn enough to cover their outgoings.

We all know that removing housing costs from the rate of calculating inflation was a ploy - whatever the ubiquitous Mark Cooper might say. But think of all that lovely Stamp Duty and Inheritance Tax the Govnmnt reaped!

Sadly though, they wasted the cash and the Govnment is now in the double-bind of rampant inflation and stagnating growth.

The manufacturing sector is tiny, the public sector is bloated and ineffective, the housing market over-inflated and plummeting, the tax-exiles are leaving and sterling is tanking.

Maybe now we will be forced to start thinking about quality of life rather than standard of living. It's possible for standard of living to go down whilst quality of life goes up. It depends on your priorities - but only if you have some assets to sell.

If you do, you have the option of 'downsizing' to pay less tax. Don't expect anything from a state that doesn't respect your struggles to maintain your independence.

Then, you might have a bit more energy to harness all the anger displayed on these pages and actually do something about the perilous state of Great Britain.

Maybe then the people unlucky enough to have no assets might feel there is something worth struggling for.

If not, the gaps between the aristocratic 'rulers' and the workers will keep on widening, social unrest will escalate, our youth will become more feral (for they see no real future) and society will further fragment until the welfare state collapses entirely and we are all in a very nasty situation indeed.











Posted by Little Miss Rage on February 16, 2008 11:41 AM
Report this comment

What the government can't steal in taxes and interest payments it will steal using inflation. You will work all your life and have absolutely nothing toward the end. You are enslaved by their bogus fiat currency they refer to as GBP.

As a poster here stated...He would have adjusted his priorities if he knew that hard work would have gotten him nowhere. A benefits-maggot has a FAR better life with less worry than a wage-earner will have. Most of this inflation is caused by governemnt stealing from the productive and handing it to the parasites (Their supporters). The parasites have overwhelmed the productive host.

Posted by Edward on February 16, 2008 11:35 AM
Report this comment

Reading all these comments the level of anger is pretty high - yet it seems people generally feel either impotent or apathetic. (Could the earler comment on 'com-doms' be of symbolic relevance?)

There is a massive democratic deficit at the heart of the UK Governemnt and the EU. I agree with another earlier poster who said that we are now in a post-democratic, post-industrial age. I think we are all reeling with the confusion.

Perhaps the extended use of referenda in the UK and decentralising in the manner of the Swiss Contons might help. Instead, the state is getting bigger and bigger and Britian is fragmenting into sub-sections of Europe.

But the political - and its attending supporting class - is very distanced from the realities of daily life for most people.

For example, I have tried to live on an annual, full-time wage that is less than half the cost of keeping one of Heffer's children at public school! I respect his choices; I went to the local comp and there are vast gaps in my learning. But as a columnist, perhaps he ought to think a little bit more about actual life experience of his readers?

For example, I visited the GP three times over the course of one year in Edinburgh (for which NI charged me around £1,200 out of my annual £16,000 wage) and I had to wait an hour each time - yes, I had an 'appointment' - to be seen, for about fifteen minutes in total.

Then, the G.P. had the audacity to ask me if I had private health care!? Taxation would be fine if the tax payer got value for money. But we don't. And we all know it.

At the same time, the system is 'infantilising' millions of people by encouraging them to be dependent upon it. The poverty trap is real, and, as living costs rise, it is becoming harder to escape from.

I don't blame anyone on 'hand outs' who relies on Housing Benefit to put a roof over their head because there is no way they wouldn't be homeless if they began to work. They simply could not earn enough to cover their outgoings.

We all know that removing housing costs from the rate of calculating inflation was a ploy - whatever the ubiquitous Mark Cooper might say. But think of all that lovely Stamp Duty and Inheritance Tax the Govnmnt reaped!

Sadly though, they wasted the cash and the Govnment is now in the double-bind of rampant inflation and stagnating growth.

The manufacturing sector is tiny, the public sector is bloated and innefective, the housing market over-inflated and plummeting, the tax-exiles are leaving and sterling is tanking.

Maybe now we will be forced to start thinking about quality of life rather than standard of living. It's possible for standard of living to go down whilst quality of life goes up. It depends on your priorities - but only if you have some assets to sell.

If you do, you have the option of 'downsizing' to pay less tax. Don't expect anything from a state that doesn't respect your struggles to maintain your independence.

Then, you might have a bit more energy to harness all the anger displayed on these pages and actually do something about the perilous state of Great Britain.

Maybe then the people unlucky enough to have no assets might feel there is something worth struggling for.

If not, the gaps between the aristocratic 'rulers' and the workers will keep on widening, social unrest will escalate, our youth will become more feral (for they see no real future) and society will further fragment until the welfare state collapses entirely.










Posted by Little Miss Rage on February 16, 2008 11:26 AM
Report this comment

There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason Labour sent the troops to Iraq is so the military could not pull a Musharref or Pinochet here.

Posted by Tim on February 16, 2008 11:15 AM
Report this comment

These Labour parasites are trying to destroy the UK in order to break our will. They also have to drag us down to EU levels of living in order to assimilate us.

Posted by Chad on February 16, 2008 11:10 AM
Report this comment

I surggest you google

HOW TO BE FREE IN AN UNFREE WORLD
by Harry Brown.

To see how we all have been, screwed for years, by governments of all colours. It is time to "wake up" everybody.
Posted by Edward on February 16, 2008 11:03 AM
Report this comment

As I understand it for every £100 the UK pays to europe, the UK gets £50 back. Massive job creation schemes such as the H&SE and 'target' checkers. This government proves the exception to that old well known saying "You never get something for nothing."
Posted by Robin Woodason on February 16, 2008 11:01 AM
Report this comment

The government treats it's own citizens as if they own them so the "foreigners" are not their property. A "foreingner" has greater property rights than a UK citizen.

Feel like a slave in your own country? Do you have a country or does your country have you? I would MUCH prefer to be a man without a country...I would be free.

Posted by Dave R. on February 16, 2008 11:00 AM
Report this comment

Did you have to include that photo? I almost lost my breakfast looking at those two maggots.

Posted by Derek on February 16, 2008 9:17 AM

You might have lost your breakfast but I had a good laugh!

The tax and spend policies of the Labout government are flawed because of waste. The mismanagment of the countries finances are coming back to haunt us, for example the computer software that was to be introduced to the NHS.... not delivered, not in operation. The dome, I could go on. The selling of of Britains gold reserves by brown has no left us at the mercy of the US and EU. The bank account is empty after a surplus from 1997.

Brownbeard and his bunch of pirates are going to con us more with tax measures and red tape to burden business and personal economics at all levels more.

It is time to move abroad to a country that rewards you for your hard work.

Yes that photo.... Im packing already!
Posted by Nick ODonoghue on February 16, 2008 10:52 AM
Report this comment

We are being taxed to death because these political terrorists want to decrease our carbon footprint. Have you not figured that out yet? How else did you think they were going to achieve Kyoto CO2 levels?

Posted by Jeff on February 16, 2008 10:50 AM
Report this comment

Charles
I cannot agree with your point that taxpayers are on their own and will not be helped by politicians. Like you, I have been angered by rising prices and taxes. My answer was to get myself elected as a town councillor. I am now the Conservative Finance Spokesman of a Local Authority that plans to spend £382 million next financial year. My specific objective is to challenge every line of spending on behalf of Council Tax payers like you and me and focus the spending where is really is needed. As Boris once said,'don't stand shouting on the sideline; get onto the pitch.'
Posted by Cllr David Stevens on February 16, 2008 10:50 AM
Report this comment

Is there no member of the Royal family prepared to speak out on this devastating state of affairs rather than what`s going on in the USA or the state of architecture? Are there no TV interviewers like Stephen Sakur from BBC World who can take these bandit apart in front of a live audience? Of course not - it`s all pre-determined and the average citizen will do nothing to change this state of affairs.He will simply walk away.The Swiss government yesterday received 230,000 signatures from Swiss citizens demanding the deportation of foreign criminals.So you see it can be done.Take an hour off from watching TV and get 30 signatures from your neighbours.It`s ammazing how it adds up.
Posted by peter ex pat on February 16, 2008 10:47 AM
Report this comment

When you go to the zoo there are signs that read "Don't feed the animals"...For the same reason, we need to stop paying taxes to these Labour/Brussles parasites.

Giving money to a government is like giving guns to muggers...There is NO difference.

Posted by John on February 16, 2008 10:41 AM
Report this comment

LEAVE! LEAVE! LEAVE!

Don't sit and whine about how the criminal government should be spending tax money...Get up and leave! It will NOT get better no matter who you vote for...The UK is part of the EU slavecamp now.

The worst is yet to come...They will start their global warming/CO2 laws soon that will knock everybody down to the level of cockroaches.

LEAVE NOW!

Posted by Charles on February 16, 2008 10:38 AM
Report this comment

The British public is fickle when it comes to elections and voting governments out. Labou has used spin and indirect taxation as a means of destroying the middle class. The problem is that Cameron and the Tories have not come up with any concrete policies or initiatives to give us any confidence in a futute Tory government.
Posted by Hamad Lone on February 16, 2008 10:37 AM
Report this comment

One day you'll rediscover property rights and begin to thrive, but until then you'll steal from each other until you're all bankrupt.
Posted by Mark Yannone on February 16, 2008 10:32 AM
Report this comment

Both of them, Gordy and Alistair, look downright evil, don't they? They have that mean and useless look about them...like Mafia Dons.

Posted by Frank D. on February 16, 2008 10:29 AM
Report this comment

The biggest TAX of all is our monetary system which is now nothing more than a system of bank credit. The hidden debasement of our currency has caused asset prices to soar, most obviously house prices, now so expensive that our children can no longer afford a home to raise a family in. Our savings and pensions are being eroded by a true rate of inflation that is closer to 10%, not the figures quoted in the 'Comedy Price Index.'

For the British people to prevent governments stealing their wealth through the 'stealth' tax of inflation, we must wrestle control of our currency from the international bankers, return the issue of currency to democratic control and issue more debt free money into our economy. Further, the value of money must be fixed and controlled under a system of 'sound weights and measures' to prevent government's deficit spending wiping out our childrens' inheritance.

If I was a builder constructing a house and overnight 1 metre was magically changed to 105cm and then to 95cm the day after that, there would be chaos. The value of our money needs to be controlled in the same manner. An inch is an inch. A metre is a metre, a pint is a pint. It should not be possible for a central bank to inflate, then deflate our currency at will, for true free market capitalism is impossible under this system. We remain in an endless cycle of booms and busts as the value of our currency changes through inflation and deflation. Those who do not understand this evil system will inevitiably end up losing their asset wealth and find themselves in penuary.

It is time for the British people to challange this evil system and return the issue of currency back to the people via government. Without this fundamental change, we are doomed to crippling deficit spending and enslavement in debt. It is de facto slavery.
Posted by Matt on February 16, 2008 10:26 AM
Report this comment

Are there still thinking/productive people living in the UK? Why? The best thing about living in Dubai...There are no violent voters after my income.

Posted by Stan ExPat on February 16, 2008 10:24 AM
Report this comment

The government has backed down on CGT (for big co) non-Doms tax (for the rich) and has reduced Corp Tax for large companies. They have increased Corp Tax for small businesses, are introducing a Family Business Tax (they refer to it as income shifting) based on nothing more than spite (HMRC lost a case at the HoL where they were trying to well and truly shaft a small company link and link). The reason they are going after the small people rather than the big boys is because they think the small people cannot fight back. They better start thinking again.
Posted by pewkatchoo on February 16, 2008 10:23 AM
Report this comment

What about the tax we pay to the EU, we pay a vast amount.
Posted by kevin kearney on February 16, 2008 10:21 AM
Report this comment

You write "the interest rates ...have become a millstone now that the value of property against which people are borrowing has started to fall". Round here a house costing £140k in 1997 at the start of this New Labour circus had become £450k or so after 10 years before the wheels began to fall off recently. In the meantime high on the euphoria of the "Feel Good Factor" people ignored the many stealth tax increases and borrowed the hell out of their property and lived way beyond their means, indulging in what could always be seen as reckless spending. I can't say that I have much sympathy in the behaviour of people who mortgage an asset that is their domicile to indulge in crass lifestyle choices. The people I am sorry for, are the newer entrants on to the property ladder who have had to borrow lunatic amounts to buy massively over-priced property that is at unsustainable price levels due to government incompetence and encouraged the greed of the lenders which has fuelled the "boom". If we have another period of negative equity, then those who have bought in the last few years (particularly all those flats with "fitted everything") are likely to sustain walloping losses should they lose their jobs or be forced out by increased costs. A conspiracy of crass stupidity from the government and banking industry and indulged by greedy homeowners who should know better- the hangover will be long and painful.
Posted by Nick R on February 16, 2008 10:18 AM
Report this comment

The tax-collectors (IRS) in the USA estimate that the citizens evade/avoid about $800B per year in taxes...About 1/4 of total tax collected at the federal level.

Americans can be so defiant...You all might want to give it a try...Maybe throw some tea into the river at Canary Warf.

Posted by Tim, USA on February 16, 2008 10:18 AM
Report this comment

Living in London for a period of the year, I have some friends who live in Westminster Housing after a period of great bad luck.
I have been extremely surprised at the efficiency and courtesy which has been extended to them in their time of need.
The Housing Options department of Westminster should be proud of its service in a borough which has a high concentration of both domestic and immigrant families.
It's pleasant to see local government can be so good with the right leadership.
Posted by Minnie Ovens on February 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Report this comment

When is somebody going to publish the true rate of inflation which includes just the normal daily, monthly or annual outgoings: food bills, fuel bills, council tax, heating bills, petrol prices, road tax, parking charges, speeding fines, etc.

Now the governor of the Bank of England admits that high energy and food prices are squeezing us. When will he also admit that the rate of inflation which he and the governement are using is a complete confidence trick which nobody believes?

Of course no rate of inflation will be entirely accurate because, as we grow richer, we spend our money on different things with less being spent proportionally on essentials and unavoidables.

This means that we should perhaps have several rates of inflation quoted. For those on incomes of £10,000 or less the rate of inflation is probably about 15%; but those on incomes of £100,000 or more probably are experiencing a considerably lower rate.

Perhaps it is not surprising that MPs are unaware of the true rate of inflation. After all they can charge against 'expenses' so many items of expenditure that most of have to pay out of taxed income (e.g.s travel, housing entertainment, employing domestic staff etc.).


Posted by Rastus C. Tastey on February 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Report this comment

So Alistair Darling doesn't think that certain people in the City should be paid bonuses for failure?

If he is true to his own principles, he should be part of the Cabinet's "collective responsibility" for adding to the burdens of taxation and red tape that are stifling enterprise and pushing the harder working to emigrate. He should forego any pay rise.

Come to think of it he and Gordon want to give more and more decision making powers away to the EU through its Constitutional Treaty (Mk II) so a pay cut for all the Cabinet would be in order.

Posted by Battered Taxpayer on February 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Report this comment

"I often wonder, sometimes publicly, why politicians of all shades think that the electorate are a bunch of fools."

Government gets away with sealing 70% of income and kicks us around like dogs...Any wonder why they think we are fools?

Posted by Janet on February 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Report this comment

We are the most heavily taxed country in Europe with average income tax levels. That means that, the lower our wage, the more we pay in tax as a percentage of that wage because spending and concil taxes are high. And yet, all parties talk about tax cuts and by that they mean income tax whereas, to make a fairer tax system based on the ability to pay, income tax needs to rise and council tax and tax on purchases, except luxuries like drink and tobacco, needs to come down.
Posted by John Read on February 16, 2008 10:05 AM
Report this comment

"why in hell would I want to live in England?"

For the excitement of potentially losing your life to a hoodie (AKA, Free-market socialist) whilst walking down a street...Or maybe for the weather.

Posted by Chery on February 16, 2008 10:02 AM
Report this comment

There is so much that can be done before actual cuts; consolidation, simplification, clarification and flattening of taxes and benefits that would reduce the costs of administration and our costs of compliance massively as well as stimulate the economy.
Posted by R Mason on February 16, 2008 10:01 AM
Report this comment

Imagine a silly gang of criminals that call themselves "government" telling me that they own me and to obey them else they will put a gun to my head and toss me into a cage. To expand on Kevin and Robert thinking posts... I am my own country and do not recognize anyones criminal mafia gangs (aka, government) or their right to any aspect of my life. A country is a land-mass with a political border not an actual border...Get off your knees and fight or move away. The key to a free and happy life is to not live your life on your knees begging the political mafia for your livelihood.

Posted by Sandy on February 16, 2008 9:57 AM
Report this comment

Headline in the Telegraph today:

"The Chancellor today criticises the culture of rewarding failure in the City by giving bonuses to executives who appear to have done little to deserve them."

Try looking in a mirror Alistair - try criticising MP's who award themselves above inflation pay and expenses rises - they fail to deliver on a daily basis.


Posted by apdb on February 16, 2008 9:57 AM
Report this comment

I am working harder, doing more hours, my wife has had to take on a second part time job, were drowning in taxes, struggling to survive, and feel like committing murder every time we see a politicians face on tv. Me and my wife would like our soldiers fighting abroad to invade England and give us some sort of democracy and say in how we can run our once great country ourselves.
Posted by philip taylor on February 16, 2008 9:56 AM
Report this comment

"...hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..." - lines from a song written in the seventies. How true it was then and how true it is today. Those of us with any real talent and earnings potential have long since taken ourselves (financially speaking) off-shore and away from the grasping talons of witless, talentless politicians of ALL colours.
Posted by apdb on February 16, 2008 9:54 AM
Report this comment

when I read these economic criticisms and the moans in general about the extreme high of our taxation, I really would hope to have seen some appraisal of the true misery that exists in the working class retired people on fixed incomes. This ten years of misery under this government has seen very real growth, but only in the waste and self patronisation of
all sections of public office.
How do wage increases in Civil Service jobs rlate to Pensioners increases over the last ten years, chartists please help me here. How many more Goverment jobs directly, and indirectly in advisors and quangos have been created compared to manufacturing jobs, and at what cost to the nations elderly, and the youngsters of today, who will need to provide from earnings to support the incredible "Index Linked Golden Pensions" for this add-on to the ruling class. Good to see that the Government, having Beurocricised admin in the Policing of the country, are now considering a new second-line of civil servants (civilians) to carry out the back-office work for the policeman on the beat, giving the policeman more time to drive around scaring the drivers, but probably not wearing out the leather, or rubber, as once was the true job of a policeman. What is the cost of these 20,000 plus extra staff? (a) in wages, and (b) in giltedged pensions.
The real problem is we are never told such truths unless it comes out 10 years in retrespect.
Posted by McCabe. A|. on February 16, 2008 9:42 AM
Report this comment

Posted by Robert on February 16, 2008 4:22 AM

Robert says it all - you would be amazed at the number of people that have left the UK because of taxes. It is not the taxes per se, but the fact that most of them are wasted and the public services are a complete shambles.


Posted by Morvan on February 16, 2008 9:38 AM
Report this comment

Never mind 'If', what about '1984' - even if it's dated a quarter-century early?

Britain is a democracy only in the sense that, once in a while, we are allowed to choose which gaggle of megalomaniacs exploit us.
Posted by Noel Falconer on February 16, 2008 9:35 AM
Report this comment

At 52 I will now cling onto my incapacity benefit for the rest of my life. I have absolutely no interest in going back to work.
After 22 years of being self-employed and being battered incessantly by an arrogant and unfair Inland Revenue I have bought my house, my car and have savings.
It is only public anger that will change things and the apathy I see absolutely appalls me.
GET OFF YOUR A#SES AND DO SOMETHING TO MAKE THESE POLITICAL W#NKERS AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE YOU EXIST.
Back to the telly pages.
Posted by Tab-a Sadam on February 16, 2008 9:27 AM
Report this comment

Just a quick note to the owner of the Telegraph, Igonicon Jack :

'Gas' is actually a gas that is pumped through pipes to peoples' houses. The process of burning it with oxygen in the air, gives carbon dioxide and water, but more importantly, heat.

Please don't confuse 'Gas Oil', shortened to 'Gas' in the US with the British 'Gas'. We call 'Gas', 'Petroleum Spirit' or 'Petrol' for short.

Alternatively you could stick to subjects about which you know something, for your tedious 'op-eds'.
Posted by Steve S on February 16, 2008 9:25 AM
Report this comment

"That means the wealthy and the mobile can escape the tyranny of governments."

Exactly. America was built by the Europeans escaping the tyranny of the little-people's governments. It is simple for the rich to hide their money offshore so the voters are just destroying themselves by voting for thieving maggots. The income tax will destroy countries in the future.

Posted by Peter J. on February 16, 2008 9:23 AM
Report this comment

There is a "big lie" about non-doms - there are **vastly** more than 100,000 and they are not just a few thousand ‘super rich’ and city traders. There is probably *millions* of non-doms living in the UK because anyone who has foreign ancestry can claim non-dom status.

They are accountants, GP doctors, pharmacists and other professionals, and thousands of food outlet and convenience store owners of overseas ancestry, including hundreds of thousands of recently arrived immigrants from the enlarged EU.

I am a pharmacist, and all of my colleagues of Asian and European ancestry claim non-dom status - they all have their savings offshore, in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands, where the interest accumulates tax-free. They can bring money tax-free into the UK to fund their businesses, and also take their capital gains tax-free from the UK when they sell their businesses.

I can't avoid these taxes on my savings and capital gains, and as the tax burden on me and others of 'pure' UK ancestry increases, I feel I belong to an oppressed majority.

If *they* aren’t taxed in the same way as *us*, then *we* pay more tax. It’s as simple as that.

If the non-dom loophole is closed then Abramovitch and his ilk might move abroad, but the pharmacists, accountants and others of non-UK ancestry will not move overseas because they can’t physically move their businesses out of the UK.

This is a difficult topic to discuss without being accused of racism, but it is an undeniable fact that the vast majority of non-doms are of foreign, non-UK ancestry.

Don Alderton
Pharmacist
Chester

Posted by Don Alderton on February 16, 2008 9:21 AM
Report this comment

Did you have to include that photo? I almost lost my breakfast looking at those two maggots.

Posted by Derek on February 16, 2008 9:17 AM
Report this comment

You are right about ordinary tax payers being the least mobile. Their only option is to become the least motivated. I know that if I had known how little I would be left with after taxes and Gordon Brown's hijack of the pensions in the private sector I would have put an easy life very much higher in my priorities than work.
Cancel any CO2 trading payouts. Those going cold and hungry are reducing consumption enough and only immigration is concealing the true extent of our contribution. Worrying about CO2 is now a total luxurious irrelevance given that we are now entering the bust part of the cycle having had the boom squandered on poor policies both economic and political.
It is time the public demanded to see the measurements the theories are based on as the few I have found do not substantiate any firm conclusions about anything except political and commercial self interest. As these taxes have been misused by the PM to fund the EU and his global third world aid fantasies instead of energy conservation this is an area for instant economy.
Make spending cuts. Unilaterally reduce our EU payments until the accounts are signed off as true. The interest can be used while the funds are held for future payment. Under the money laundering laws this has to be legal. Even if not formally ring fenced ensure money raised for a purpose is genuinely used for it. Let us see where our money is spent and have the right of veto on any are of poor value.
Posted by D Cage on February 16, 2008 9:14 AM
Report this comment

The point about the inflation we are all feeling is
that it is not being reflected in CPI which hovers
around 2.5%. It's a rubbish number designed to
political ends, yet it is the centerpiece of the
Bank of England'srates policy. The inflation we're
feeling is invisible to policy makers - which is
why we are cutting rates in the middle of a crisis
created by cheap money. The problem will only
get worse until we widen the breadth and utilitity
of the financial metrics used by the BoE. We need
higher interest rates, tighter lending standards
and greater fiscal discipline. That would hurt
stocks in the short to medium term, but the
alternative is that we continue to borrow money
we don't have and bills continue to rise.
Posted by Jerry Nielsen on February 16, 2008 9:13 AM
Report this comment

Marginal tax rates for the poor are over 100% (the poverty trap, making it a disincentive to leave the benefits system).

Meanwhile tax rates for the very rich are effectively zero.

Add to this the never-ending bailouts of bankers and the siphoning off of government handouts into their pockets as bonuses, and we can clearly see that it's socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us.

Neither Labour or the Tories will change this while they are in the pay of foreign and non-dom donors.

Most revolutions in history have started from economic injustices such as this.

No wonder they quietly changed the classification of "terrorist" a few years ago to include anyone who might get upset about this kind of thing.

It should be an "interesting" few years ahead.
Posted by Paul Amery on February 16, 2008 9:09 AM
Report this comment

OK - so we all hate paying tax and would like to pay less for everything. Food prices, despite recent increases, caused by crop failures and increased oil prices and not tax, have been very low for years.

Fuel prices have also gone up recently - but mainly due to international reasons -the fact that our bounty of oil is running out and we have less oil than previously predicted.

House prices on the other hand have gone up to stupidly high prices, good for those seeking to make a quick investment but bad for society as a whole, particularly first time buyers. How many of those mouning have got second homes – and are thus part of this problem?

It is easy to seek to blame a government that the 'wrong' colour for all our concerns.

On the subject of tax I in part agree. Those earning under the minimum wage should pay no Income Tax. This would remove the need for many to have to apply for benefits. If we want to see a cut in tax then we must identify what we want cut.

It is easy for those in opposition to seek popular support by demanding cuts. Good luck when it comes to closing Schools, Hospitals and Rural Post Offices to deliver those cuts!

However, many costs that people have are about lifestyle choices. If one chooses to eat out all the time, have micro-wave meals, fly on holiday twice a year, drive a large car and have the heating up full blast - then maybe it's time to live with your means and that of the planet!

Posted by Ray Harington-Vail on February 16, 2008 9:06 AM
Report this comment

Taxation is out of control. The Labour Governments policies over the last 11 years require an almost insatiable amount of cash. For example, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Northern Rock and an absurdly generous benefits system. Instead of being open and honest about all this the Government raises taxes by stealth or tries to put a socially acceptable label on the tax such as green taxes. It is just absurd that we have taxes like insurance tax and we are now going to get dustbin taxes. To raise taxes by charging stamp duty on house purchases by ordinary families just puts people more into debt as it gets added to the mortgage debt. Against his “spend spend spend” background Gordon Brown must take responsibility for the irreparable damage he has done to the pensions and savings industry. Many people have given up trying to save for their old age and will rely on the state - another burden on the taxpayer! I have no doubt that Gordon Brown will go down as the worst Chancellor in history and he is heading for the same accolade as PM. As for George Osborne he will find that the financial position is far worse than he imagined and that is why he is not and cannot give a commitment to reduce taxes if Labour is thrown out of office – which it ought to be!
Posted by William Martin on February 16, 2008 9:04 AM
Report this comment

Wiodows get stitched up wholesale. My combined Widow's Pension [Company] and DSS Pension come to a magnificent £7,500. That isn't per month. That is per annum. I pay tax on this. Why?
Soon the 10% Tax Band will have gone, and my Income Tax will be doubled to 20%. Why?
If Immigrants weren't paid Tax Credits and Child Benefit that they have not contributed towards for children not living in the UK, then maybe the Government could afford to raise the Tax threshold. My husband had to pay all his working life so I could have a pension. Even then I only get 90% of the DSS pension and 50% of the graduated pension he paid for, so widows get stitched up there as well. Who trousered the rest of the pension he paid for? He paid into the Company scheme for 28 years, yet I only get 50% of the pension he paid for. He didn't live long enough to claim the pensions.
My bills are higher, yet my income is now less than half of what we received as a couple.
Posted by Beryl on February 16, 2008 9:02 AM
Report this comment

Taxes will continue to increase until the British voters get rid of Labour. I have always thought Gordon Brown to be fundamentally dishonest in as much as, whenever, he produced a Budget, he purposely gave a false impression and it even took the analysts a couple of days with their calculators before they could tell the public what was really behind Brown's decisions.
Posted by David on February 16, 2008 9:00 AM
Report this comment

Most have had a healthy but reaasonable disbelief of government statistics. As a result of Brownomics noboby can believe a word this man says or that of his supine ministers. Inflation at 2% and without the cost of housing is an insult to us all, but DCCs just accept this nonsense. If housing isn't a part of inflation where do we all live - in suspended animation.
Posted by Tony Gee on February 16, 2008 9:00 AM
Report this comment

The thing that makes us more angry and resentful is that many underserving people do not pay taxes and are rewarded handsomly by this idiotic state in the form of handouts and housing. This is the same state that lies in waiting to punish the good and the righteous! People get the government they deserve....
Posted by John on February 16, 2008 8:59 AM
Report this comment

After the tax on non-doms, what next? A tax on con-doms? That should raise a bit of cash even if it lowers a few other things.
Posted by Peter Croft on February 16, 2008 8:58 AM
Report this comment

Labour has borrowed so much money that taxes have to remain high to pay for the loans, regardless of who we elect. They have used the cash to create a huge swathe of non-jobs and hand-out dependent groups in the public sector. Anyone threatening to cut them will be unelectable.
Posted by Mike Baess on February 16, 2008 8:55 AM
Report this comment

I left the UK partly because of the emasculation of parliament by the EEC (or whatever it's called this weekend) and partly because there seems no real alternative government.

William Hague was the last Tory leader who stood up and put the case for Conservative policies.

Since then there has just been a succession of "leaders" vainly attempting to be all things to all people - but appealing to none.

When on earth will these people realise that they won't win over Labour voters by trying to outbliar Bliar and will only lose their natural constituency by attempting to do so?

A lose - lose situation, if ever I saw one.
Posted by Rog on February 16, 2008 8:55 AM
Report this comment

The excesses of a minority has distorted our society. This Government and the last is actually stupid. Thatchers bunch were frankly lunatics believing that money and growth equal quality of life.
Where is commonsense and the desire and recognition that we are all in this together for better or for worse.
Lets stop making ourselves a laughing stock and start making Britain great again.
Get yobs to clean up the towns . Get our Soldiers back from fighting wars that NOTHING to do with us. Stop making new laws. Start cutting taxes. Impose good laws. Bring back National Service. Teach the kids to read and write and he